Is late potty training becoming increasingly normalized?

[AJFan2020]

Infants physically cannot 'hold on' to their bladder or bowels. Believe me, my mother is a midwife.

When infants appear to be in discomfort before taking a bowel or bladder movement, it's not because they're trying to let caregivers know they're ready for a dump or a piss, it's because the ... umm ... bits concerned with that particular bodily function are not yet developed properly ... therefore, they may appear to be in discomfort, and they may try to convey that discomfort ... but they have no control over those functions yet, it's scientifically impossible.
The bladder is similar. A baby aged from newborn to about 13 months has no control whatsoever of his/her bladder, and from then on only has extremely limited bladder control.

Sorry for all that graphic imagery, but trying to suggest infant incontinence and use of diapers is taught or learned behaviour is simply wrong.

Potty training isn't 'reversing' anything, because the child never had control of his/her bowels to begin with.

This is why Elimination Communication before about 18 months is pretty much a complete hoax. From 18 months on it might work up to a point. True toilet training only occurs by age two or three at best. Three-and-a-quarter to three-and-a-half seems to be pretty much the norm for daytime toilet training (by even the loosest definition). Nighttime toilet training realistically takes until at least three-and-a-half to four even under ideal circumstances.

Some people of my parents’s generation have false memories of toilet training as early as age one. This is probably because their parents repeatedly told them stories about this.

 

[Palle]

This is why Elimination Communication before about 18 months is pretty much a complete hoax. From 18 months on it might work up to a point. True toilet training only occurs by age two or three at best. Three-and-a-quarter to three-and-a-half seems to be pretty much the norm for daytime toilet training (by even the loosest definition). Nighttime toilet training realistically takes until at least three-and-a-half to four even under ideal circumstances.

Some people of my parents’s generation have false memories of toilet training as early as age one. This is probably because their parents repeatedly told them stories about this.

I have a couple of kids a boy who became dry at night before he was two and a half and then became dry during the day a few months later when he was about two and a half. He had been out of diapers for about half a year before his little sister was born. She wasn't out of diapers during the day until was was almost five, still wetting her bed at seven but wanted out of diapers. That was a bad decision, luckily she accepted wearing when we slept elsewhere...

I have seen children be potty trained really early, but since their bladder is really tiny, they end upp in precautionary diapers sometimes anyways.
My cousins daughter was dry at her 2 years birthday, yes really, but when she needed to go, she could only hold it for like 5-15 minutes tops. So she wore diapers when she was outside the house. I don't remember if she was late or early at night, but that's not the point in this case.

The point is that the very most of us are born with the ability to develop and become continent when the time is right, but not before that.
Children are different, they learn different things in different ways in different order and in different timeframes. Continence is just one skill...
But adding stigma will not help the kids who are a little bit late or have real medical problems to suffer less...

 

[12srepaid]

In the article, it mentions 10 & 11 year olds not being potty trained. I have trouble believing that article. Seems like info is being left out or generalized.
-Are these really normal children, or do they have disabilities the author doesn't care to understand or did the author use stock photo to twist the narrative?
-I believe they're wearing pull-ups instead of tape on diapers.
I honestly believe they're potty trained, but something else is causing them to wear protective undergarments.
Even adults are potty trained but many still have some kind of continence issues.

I would hope that this group would be a bit more emphatic to what's really going on, and not fully trusting in these kinds of stories.

 

[Mehrabad98]

Not just families from India. When I was in high school, my (half Malaysian) best friend's mother kept his little sister in diapers until she was 5. I was really surprised when I met his family, because she was just running around the house and it was totally normal for them.

He wasn't out of diapers until he was about 6 and was a bedwetter until he was a teenager.

That's odd. In my culture (Iranian) having your children in diapers past their third birthday is seen as shameful and wrong. And if a child turns 4 and is still in diapers, the parents (but mostly the mom) will get ridiculed. We are a very rigid people when it comes to social norms. A child must develop according to a certain timeline or faster, otherwise the parents are seen as failing. The child also gets some of the blame. I remember at age 6 being forcibly separated from my mom at Imam Khomeini Airport and sent through the men's security line, and the guard said "don't cry, you're a man now"

 

[PaddedRebel]

As someone who at the time was diagnosed as being on the spectrum, I can confirm my diagnosis played a part in potty training late.

I was diagnosed with a high functioning form, Asperger’s, at a relatively young age, and I definitely believe it played a part in potty training late. I was almost 5 before I was day trained, and even then went to preschool in Pull Ups. While I do agree that later training is becoming more of a thing, there are obviously a number of different reasons behind it, one of which is disability. Honestly, and I’m probably in the minority here, but as long as a child is potty trained in a relatively timely manner whenever they are ready for it, I don’t see an issue if it happens whether they’re a year and a half or almost 5 or anywhere in between. I’m not a parent yet myself, but as long as you’re making an honest effort to get them potty trained, I see no issue.

 

[AJFan2020]

As someone who at the time was diagnosed as being on the spectrum, I can confirm my diagnosis played a part in potty training late.

I was diagnosed with a high functioning form, Asperger’s, at a relatively young age, and I definitely believe it played a part in potty training late. I was almost 5 before I was day trained, and even then went to preschool in Pull Ups. While I do agree that later training is becoming more of a thing, there are obviously a number of different reasons behind it, one of which is disability. Honestly, and I’m probably in the minority here, but as long as a child is potty trained in a relatively timely manner whenever they are ready for it, I don’t see an issue if it happens whether they’re a year and a half or almost 5 or anywhere in between. I’m not a parent yet myself, but as long as you’re making an honest effort to get them potty trained, I see no issue.

Exactly, I was level two on the spectrum myself when I was growing up (I’m level one now) and I went to a half-day preschool twice a week at age five-and-a-half with a Pamper inside my underwear (but not taped in place). This was back in the early 1980s before pull-ups and similar products were on the market so my mother had to improvise one. This allowed me to practice using the toilet at preschool (when I remembered to do so (usually with some reminders from someone working there)). The rest of the time the diaper was there if I needed it.

By kindergarten (less than six months later) just before age six the daytime diapers came off (aside from some sick days at home here and there) and I was maybe ninety percent daytime trained. By first grade the following year I was maybe about ninety-five percent daytime trained. With each year I generally improved (aside from some regressions off and on) and by the end of fifth grade I was fully trained night and day and just had some rare accidents after that sometimes when I was sick.

 

[Baloo]

I saw a TV program the other day and they said there are many children starting school that are not potty trained and still in nappies and the lazy parents don't seem to care.

 

[NappiedB]

I saw a TV program the other day and they said there are many children starting school that are not potty trained and still in nappies and the lazy parents don't seem to care.

What program was this?

 

[Lori]

Not just families from India. When I was in high school, my (half Malaysian) best friend's mother kept his little sister in diapers until she was 5. I was really surprised when I met his family, because she was just running around the house and it was totally normal for them.

He wasn't out of diapers until he was about 6 and was a bedwetter until he was a teenager.

There definitely seems to be a 'countries' thing as far as the age at which kids potty train is concerned.
I think in Germany it tends to be early, so much so that if you have a kid that's still regularly in diapers by 2.5 over in Germany, that's seen as slightly weird, whereas that would never be seen as weird in the UK or the USA.

I'm ethnically Norwegian and live in the UK, I think both countries tend to be fairly moderate on that.
Meanwhile, I think the USA leans a little on the late side, while the southern European countries liked Italy, Spain, Portugal, possibly France (or at least the South of it) and Greece as well, seem to tend to keep their kids in diapers for quite a long time. It's not uncommon to walk down an Italian street and see 3.5 year olds with their parents wearing nothing but a diaper.

 

[HappyNappin]

What program was this?

Probably loose women or some other daytime tabloid on the telly rubbish

 

[Lori]

Oh that's really old for a girl.
Unless they are special need.
Most girls don't like being messy.
They usually train faster.
It's case by case . They make cloth training pants that would help.
Promote her in training.

They say girls usually train faster. That might be true in some cases, but probably not all. Perhaps not even most. I think girls have slight advantage, but it depends on the individual kid more so than anything. There is this study from 1997 which does somewhat affirm what you are saying, but the article I have on it doesn't tell me any specific statistics re Gender

A New Study --and Debate --on Toilet Training

Children: The first large-scale survey in 30 years reports that only 60% are trained by age 3. The results may be a cause for both relief and concern.

www.latimes.com

I trained in the day time at 3, which is maybe slightly late. This might sound crazy, but I'm a tomboyish bisexual and wonder if that played a role in training late?

 

[foxkits]

They say girls usually train faster. That might be true in some cases, but probably not all. Perhaps not even most. I think girls have slight advantage, but it depends on the individual kid more so than anything. There is this study from 1997 which does somewhat affirm what you are saying, but the article I have on it doesn't tell me any specific statistics re Gender

A New Study --and Debate --on Toilet Training

Children: The first large-scale survey in 30 years reports that only 60% are trained by age 3. The results may be a cause for both relief and concern.

www.latimes.com

I trained in the day time at 3, which is maybe slightly late. This might sound crazy, but I'm a tomboyish bisexual and wonder if that played a role in training late?

What type of diapers did you wear could be a factor also.
There's no set rule there are exceptions. It depends on the child.

 

[Baloo]

What program was this?

It was on breakfast tv

 

[sassypigtailz]

I prefer the woods and nature to poop and pee n. Public toilets are stinky and gross.

 

[Lori]

What type of diapers did you wear could be a factor also.
There's no set rule there are exceptions. It depends on the child.

I was born in 1999, so it was disposables all the way

 

[foxkits]

The disposable ones didn't feel that uncomfortable when wet.

 

[RouteLeader]

Not just families from India. When I was in high school, my (half Malaysian) best friend's mother kept his little sister in diapers until she was 5. I was really surprised when I met his family, because she was just running around the house and it was totally normal for them.

He wasn't out of diapers until he was about 6 and was a bedwetter until he was a teenager.

I can give my two cents on the evolving cultural differences with regards to late potty training.

I lived and worked in Cambodia for 5 years, got married, started a family and so on, so I got to know the intricacies of middle to upper class Cambodian life. My wife and I worked in a high end international school with a student body of wealthy Cambodians. At the kindergarten end, a disproportionally high number of Kindergarten children (4yo+) wore diapers to school.

Many of their parents were too busy working, managing businesses or overseas, so the children were looked after by nannies or grandparents, neither of which had the authority or willpower to initiate potty training, creating an elite generation of spoilt, care-free children. Moreover, wealthier Cambodians attended private, expensive schools which had a strong profit, student-retention ethos (essentially a Crayola Academy model) where the need to make the school money was more important then the pressure for the child to reach milestones.

Moreover, the country is becoming very materialistic, and disposable diapers are seen as a luxury product in a developing country. In a country with such huge discrepancies in wealth, it was not uncommon to flaunt wealth in a way that may be seen unacceptable in the Anglosphere, therefore diapers were a premium hygiene product and for your child to buy/promote or wear them may be seen as a sign of ones groundbreaking into the middle or upper class.

Finally, I noticed children (of all strata) glued to their smartphones, even at toddler age, with their parents also doing the same. I can't help but think that some of their parents were too busy in TikTok la-la-land to potty train their kids. This suggestion has been made in the west as well.

 

[HappyNappin]

Moreover, the country is becoming very materialistic, and disposable diapers are seen as a luxury product in a developing country. In a country with such huge discrepancies in wealth, it was not uncommon to flaunt wealth in a way that may be seen unacceptable in the Anglosphere, therefore diapers were a premium hygiene product and for your child to buy/promote or wear them may be seen as a sign of ones groundbreaking into the middle or upper class.

This explains a theory that I've had for a while about several south east Asian nations and there relationship between wealth and diapers, and why massive sizes of pullups are available in such relatively poor countries.
I wonder how many actually are potty trained but continue wearing diapers as a projection of wealth.

Little side question but does the school you worked at have western toilets or squat toilets?

I'm guessing if a child has only ever lived with a western style toilet then a diaper would probably be a safer option than having them attempting to use a squat toilet, similar thing with the bidet on a hose, toilet training is Asia seems quite complicated even for an adult.

 

[diaperwoody]

I wonder if this will spawn an increasing number of Diaper Lovers. The older you are and still in diapers, the more attached you become to them. And if there’s any pleasure associated with them at all, which becomes more and more likely the older they get, the more hooked they’ll be.

 

[12srepaid]

Do I want kids potty trained at a proper age? Yes!

But I also want kids to be more acceptable to diapers if they need them for bedwetting or other issues later on, or to be kind to others that may still need diapers.