Is late potty training becoming increasingly normalized?

[Hell2DaNaw]

Does anyone else feel like it’s becoming increasingly normal for parents to delay or even not potty train? I’ve recently come across several posts on reddit talking about how schools are having to accommodate non-SpED kindergarteners and even first graders who are still wearing diapers and pull-ups.Most of the comments are blaming the lazy parents, who in turn are throwing the blame on COVID and many say they “simply don’t have time as both parents work”.

In the last couple years, every diaper brand has released a larger size (Huggies & Pampers have size 7, Pull-ups & Easy-Ups debuted 5T-6T and GoodNites came out with the XL size) and it’s seemingly become more normalized for even adult women to wear depends and always discreet for periods & postpartum.

It seems like the diaper manufacturers have enough data to justify producing larger sizes, which to me indicates that the trend of kids potty training later is here to stay. I’d love to hear what you all think of this. Do you personally have experience seeing potty training happening later? Will the trend reverse?

Teacher Explains Why More Kindergarteners Than Ever Are Starting School Still In Diapers

Some teachers report that 15-20% of their Kindergarteners are not potty trained.

www.yourtango.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/1746pov

https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/16rscgn

https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/14gjze9

 

[mammalun]

I work in schools and have a fair bit of experience of this issue. The trend seems to have come from a cultural shift from "kids need to be actively potty trained" to one of "kids will train themselves when they are ready to", with an added bit of "kids aren't actually properly ready for it until at least 2-3". Now back in the day, when people had to wash the diapers etc, it was in the caregivers interest to get them trained as quickly as possible, often before their 1st birthday, because looking after diapers was time consuming (ask any modern parent who uses cloth diapers about that - I have personal experience of that one). As the parent usually wasn't working they could pick up on queues from the child, anticipate, and put them on the potty. This idea of following their queues is still used in places where the use of diapers is not that common. But it is incredibly time consuming to do that.

However, there is this idea that there is a difference between training a child to go on queue compared to when a child is actually ready to use a toilet themselves. So yes, you will see kids of 3-5 years old still in diapers depending on which parenting trend their parents happen to follow. Depending on the country you live in this may be considered perfectly natural and OK, or your kids (and you as a parent) are going to be considered a freak for not having your kid trained before pre-school.

 

[Hell2DaNaw]

I work in schools and have a fair bit of experience of this issue. The trend seems to have come from a cultural shift from "kids need to be actively potty trained" to one of "kids will train themselves when they are ready to", with an added bit of "kids aren't actually properly ready for it until at least 2-3". Now back in the day, when people had to wash the diapers etc, it was in the caregivers interest to get them trained as quickly as possible, often before their 1st birthday, because looking after diapers was time consuming (ask any modern parent who uses cloth diapers about that - I have personal experience of that one). As the parent usually wasn't working they could pick up on queues from the child, anticipate, and put them on the potty. This idea of following their queues is still used in places where the use of diapers is not that common. But it is incredibly time consuming to do that.

However, there is this idea that there is a difference between training a child to go on queue compared to when a child is actually ready to use a toilet themselves. So yes, you will see kids of 3-5 years old still in diapers depending on which parenting trend their parents happen to follow. Depending on the country you live in this may be considered perfectly natural and OK, or your kids (and you as a parent) are going to be considered a freak for not having your kid trained before pre-school.

But even now many preschools require kids to be potty trained by their 3rd birthday and as far as I remember, that was always the goal. I get what you're saying about waiting until the child is more aware of their body, but it seems like many parents have taken "wait til they indicate readiness" as an ok for them to not potty train. I understand waiting a bit, and even late potty training, but it seems that many parents are waiting for the kid to come up and say "Mom, Dad I'm ready to use the toilet now" rather than push them a little. After all, if all you've ever known is going in a diaper and getting changed by your parents, why switch to using the toilet?

I can't find it right now, but a couple months ago I saw a cartoon video oriented at parents, telling them it's ok to start potty training kids. It was far more blunt than I would've thought, outright saying "I'm 4, I don't need diapers anymore! I can use the toilet!"

EDIT: Here's the video in question. It makes it seem like many parents are waiting til 3+ to even broach the topic of potty training.

 

[enigmatic]

It's been trending in this direction for years. I think there will be a peak in increase in age and then it will level out if it hasn't already. Most parents have an incentive to train their kids because they don't like changing diapers. I don't see that changing. However, there will always be a few outliers, just like there are currently.

I think the stress that preschools put on parents to get their kids trained at a certain age or else the kids can't get in at all is worse. Preschools should be more understanding of late trainers. They just don't want to change diapers.

I think the slippery slope concern of being more accommodating that will lead to more kids on a massive scale going into 1st grade and on without toileting skills is not a real concern. That's still going to be rare.

 

[NappiedB]

Without a doubt parents these days are far more relaxed about potty training than ever before, and I think diaper companies encourage this by ensuring there are diapers big enough to fit kids as old as 5 or 6 years old. On top of that, waiting until later is meant to make it a quicker process, something which families with working parents will opt for to fit in around their busy schedules. I don’t think this is a bad thing, and as long as it’s doing the kid no harm, there’s nothing wrong with keeping them in diapers until they’re ready or a good time to potty train comes round.

I had personal experience of this over Christmas, visiting my cousin and her family. She has a 4 year old who I hadn’t seen since she was a baby, and was still in diapers day and night. My cousin was saying they’d had a few attempts, but after being unsuccessful each time decided diapers were easier for the time being. The kid knew when she was going potty, as each time she’d do the classic stop talking, squat slightly and go, even telling everyone at one point that she was poopy. She never asked to be changed either, so was clearly comfortable in her diapers! I think my cousin is one of those easygoing people, who as long as her daughter is happy and she doesn’t have to clean up messes, will keep her in diapers until potty training can be guaranteed to be a quick and easy process.

 

[Hell2DaNaw]

It's been trending in this direction for years. I think there will be a peak in increase in age and then it will level out if it hasn't already. Most parents have an incentive to train their kids because they don't like changing diapers. I don't see that changing. However, there will always be a few outliers, just like there are currently.

Do you think we’ve reached the peak? And if you believe it’s currently plateaued, do you think it’ll increase again in the future? i have to disagree on your point about parents having an incentive to train. I’ve heard many say that it’s a huge ordeal to train and changing a diaper is easier for them (totally wrong mindset imo). Modern advances in diaper tech have made it really convenient for both parents and kids to rely on diapers longer.

I think the slippery slope concern of being more accommodating that will lead to more kids on a massive scale going into 1st grade and on without toileting skills is not a real concern. That's still going to be rare.

One of the links mentioned a kindergarten teacher that said 15-20% of her class was still not toileting independently, those don’t really sound like outliers. I wouldn’t be surprised if potty training ended up getting rolled into kindergarten curriculums eventually.

 

[Hell2DaNaw]

Without a doubt parents these days are far more relaxed about potty training than ever before, and I think diaper companies encourage this by ensuring there are diapers big enough to fit kids as old as 5 or 6 years old. On top of that, waiting until later is meant to make it a quicker process, something which families with working parents will opt for to fit in around their busy schedules. I don’t think this is a bad thing, and as long as it’s doing the kid no harm, there’s nothing wrong with keeping them in diapers until they’re ready or a good time to potty train comes round.

yeah parents nowadays seem more relaxed, and while I agree that waiting may lead to a quicker potty training, many parents seem to be waiting for the kid to say “mom, dad I don’t want diapers anymore. I want to use the toilet” which if the kid has only ever worn diapers what incentive would they have to do that? As a kid, I’d be mortified wearing a diaper to school. You’d be mercilessly bullied!

I had personal experience of this over Christmas, visiting my cousin and her family. She has a 4 year old who I hadn’t seen since she was a baby, and was still in diapers day and night. My cousin was saying they’d had a few attempts, but after being unsuccessful each time decided diapers were easier for the time being. The kid knew when she was going potty, as each time she’d do the classic stop talking, squat slightly and go, even telling everyone at one point that she was poopy. She never asked to be changed either, so was clearly comfortable in her diapers! I think my cousin is one of those easygoing people, who as long as her daughter is happy and she doesn’t have to clean up messes, will keep her in diapers until potty training can be guaranteed to be a quick and easy process.

Do you think your cousins baby is stuck in a cycle? Advanced diaper tech stops the kiddo from feeling uncomfortable in wet/ dirty diapers so she doesn’t see a reason to stick with underwear, which immediately feel gross after an accident? Did they say whether they plan to train her again anytime soon?

 

[mammalun]

But even now many preschools require kids to be potty trained by their 3rd birthday and as far as I remember, that was always the goal. I get what you're saying about waiting until the child is more aware of their body, but it seems like many parents have taken "wait til they indicate readiness" as an ok for them to not potty train. I understand waiting a bit, and even late potty training, but it seems that many parents are waiting for the kid to come up and say "Mom, Dad I'm ready to use the toilet now" rather than push them a little. After all, if all you've ever known is going in a diaper and getting changed by your parents, why switch to using the toilet?

I can't find it right now, but a couple months ago I saw a cartoon video oriented at parents, telling them it's ok to start potty training kids. It was far more blunt than I would've thought, outright saying "I'm 4, I don't need diapers anymore! I can use the toilet!"

EDIT: Here's the video in question. It makes it seem like many parents are waiting til 3+ to even broach the topic of potty training.

Depends a bit on the country as to whether prechools will apply pressure for potty training. I experienced the opposite here in Sweden, in that it was me that they considered to be applying pressure by expecting my almost 3 year old to get help to use the toilet at daycare. She was dry and fine at home by that point. But I agree there is a misinterpretation about what the "signs of readiness" actually means.

 

[LittleAndAlone]

When people say they don't have time to take care of their kids I remind them how they sure had plenty of time to put their legs in the air. Always have time for sex and NFL games don't they.

 

[enigmatic]

Do you think we’ve reached the peak? And if you believe it’s currently plateaued, do you think it’ll increase again in the future? i have to disagree on your point about parents having an incentive to train. I’ve heard many say that it’s a huge ordeal to train and changing a diaper is easier for them (totally wrong mindset imo). Modern advances in diaper tech have made it really convenient for both parents and kids to rely on diapers longer.

One of the links mentioned a kindergarten teacher that said 15-20% of her class was still not toileting independently, those don’t really sound like outliers. I wouldn’t be surprised if potty training ended up getting rolled into kindergarten curriculums eventually.

I don't ultimately know if we've reached the peak any more than you do. My suspicion is that we have. Based on the construct of school and potty training maybe the average at some point hits 4? I doubt it gets higher than that.

Diapers are definitely easier than dealing with a potty training child or recently potty trained child. I don't blame parents for that. That's not to say kids shouldn't be taught to use the toilet. The issue is the arbitrary notion that kids have to be potty trained at a certain age. Historically that's driven by parents and teachers who don't want to change diapers. I think it's funny we put a lot of pressure on potty training but we let kids set the pace for walking for instance.

If those teachers were being honest, which I think it's questionable, I doubt 15-20% of school age kids in general are going to school in diapers. I bet it's pretty rare if you go across schools around the U.S. and in the first world. I doubt there's any actual research on that specific issue.

 

[PadPhilosopher]

I see a paradox here. The more aware young people become of their bodies by development, the less aware of it they become through habit. I think for most children, for some early time the two roughly balance, but past a certain point there is negligible increase in awareness, but significant increase in habit, making potty training harder. Where that point is varies, of course, but this argument and my own experience points to a huge fallacy in many people's apparent reasoning as discussed here. If you can't do it now, life happens, but don't kid yourself it will be easier when they're 4.

 

[TabaCrate]

Had 3 kids. My mom strongly potty trained me sarting before one and ending before 2, not sureI enjoyed as I always wanted to be diapered my entire life!

Si for my kids, I decided to never put any pressure to remove the diapers but sent small messages about toilet usage (they were looking at me when at the toilet).
In summer, naked in the garden, they have seen how #1 and #2 happen and with the boys, we played "pee on the tree".

Then, we were just proposing. If you want to try the toilets, let me know...

They all achieved full continence at 2.5-3, 3-3.5 and 4-4.25 for the slowest one. No accidents (well maybe 1or 2 per child) afterwards.

No pressure for the kids, non work for parents. Just a natural way to become bigger.

The slowest one (4) just appreciated to wear diapers. At his 4th birthday I asked him how long he will still prefer to wear diapers and he said. For my birthday with my friends, it will be finished. 2 days later, it was done during day. 3 months later, he was starting school. I knew he appreciated his night diaper because he was usually dry waking-up and soaked after his breakfast! So I asked him, do you still want to wear a diaper at night while starting school? He said no, once at school it will be finished. The day he started he went to bed without and never had an accident!

So, all is how you present things. Good communication and explanation and there is nothing to "train". But for my wife and me, priority has always been the kids, prior to anything, inluding work and career.

 

[Hell2DaNaw]

Depends a bit on the country as to whether prechools will apply pressure for potty training. I experienced the opposite here in Sweden, in that it was me that they considered to be applying pressure by expecting my almost 3 year old to get help to use the toilet at daycare. She was dry and fine at home by that point. But I agree there is a misinterpretation about what the "signs of readiness" actually means.

Sorry if I’m misinterpreting, so her teachers were saying it was ok to pump the breaks on potty training? It seems like she was ready to at least move onto pull-ups/ training pants.

 

[Hell2DaNaw]

I don't ultimately know if we've reached the peak any more than you do. My suspicion is that we have. Based on the construct of school and potty training maybe the average at some point hits 4? I doubt it gets higher than that.

Diapers are definitely easier than dealing with a potty training child or recently potty trained child. I don't blame parents for that. That's not to say kids shouldn't be taught to use the toilet. The issue is the arbitrary notion that kids have to be potty trained at a certain age. Historically that's driven by parents and teachers who don't want to change diapers. I think it's funny we put a lot of pressure on potty training but we let kids set the pace for walking for instance.

If those teachers were being honest, which I think it's questionable, I doubt 15-20% of school age kids in general are going to school in diapers. I bet it's pretty rare if you go across schools around the U.S. and in the first world. I doubt there's any actual research on that specific issue.

I doubt we’ll be seeing potty training issues past kinder/ first grade as well. Btw the teachers surveyed in the article was a kindergarten teacher saying 15-20% of her class that year was not potty trained, Im also skeptical of whether or not this is actually representative of the whole US.

I’m personally on the side of allowing kids to set the pace of things, but that’s not to say kids should get the final say. Many times parents need to give that additional push to help the grow. It may be uncomfortable, time consuming and stressful to potty train but it’s a necessary life skill and I’d rather that then my kid get labeled as “the diaper kid” at school. After all, that’s the main responsibility of a parent, and any pain you spared them in potty training, they’ll more than get being bullied in school.

 

[Dune1001]

I can't speak from experience of being responsible for teaching but I really think, like most things in life, there is a balance to be struck here.

Its important to listen to the child and pick up on their feelings regarding how ready they are for it, and trying to force it too early or simply when the child is showing a lot of reluctance can lead to issues. On the other hand, you do have a responsibility for a child's development and to ensure they are ready to participate in society - not so they can 'fall in line' but for their own wellbeing. While a lot of development can happen naturally to simply place the decision in totality of when to do something as important as toilet training into the hands of the child just feels like abandoning responsibility. Even if the child seems content with it parents do have a responsibility to ensure they aren't placed into a situation detrimental to them and being unable to properly use the toilet significantly past an expected age opens the door for a lot of potential unpleasantness for the child, and by extension people in carer roles who have to regularly manage something that in theory shouldn't really be their responsbility.

Of course I'm not applying the above to everyone, some people will be later and various conditions and reasons will exist that result in training being delayed. Some kids will need more time and a more gentle approach and sometimes it will overflow a bit into school years. I also can't really imagine this snowballing into some situation where newer generations just aren't going to toilet train till later. I'm thinking more about the parents and trying to understand the mindset behind sending a child to school in Year 2 (in UK, aka 1st grade) in nappies simply because you haven't attempted to toilet train. Again, I'd like to stress the issue is not children wearing nappies at that age to school at that age, varying situations exist and the kid can't be held responsible. Its the idea parents might let this situation happen not because of different circumstances but because they'd just willingly not attempted to train.

Apparently I have stronger thoughts about the subject than I thought! I'm very open to the idea of alternative parenting techniques normally and particularly giving children more agency regarding certain choices in life, particularly in schooling in regards to what they study and how. And I guess on paper the idea of letting your child choose when to make big decisions seems good. But I feel not preparing your child to use the toilet properly is just not fair on the kid.

 

[Hell2DaNaw]

Had 3 kids. My mom strongly potty trained me sarting before one and ending before 2, not sureI enjoyed as I always wanted to be diapered my entire life!

Si for my kids, I decided to never put any pressure to remove the diapers but sent small messages about toilet usage (they were looking at me when at the toilet).
In summer, naked in the garden, they have seen how #1 and #2 happen and with the boys, we played "pee on the tree".

Then, we were just proposing. If you want to try the toilets, let me know...

They all achieved full continence at 2.5-3, 3-3.5 and 4-4.25 for the slowest one. No accidents (well maybe 1or 2 per child) afterwards.

No pressure for the kids, non work for parents. Just a natural way to become bigger.

The slowest one (4) just appreciated to wear diapers. At his 4th birthday I asked him how long he will still prefer to wear diapers and he said. For my birthday with my friends, it will be finished. 2 days later, it was done during day. 3 months later, he was starting school. I knew he appreciated his night diaper because he was usually dry waking-up and soaked after his breakfast! So I asked him, do you still want to wear a diaper at night while starting school? He said no, once at school it will be finished. The day he started he went to bed without and never had an accident!

So, all is how you present things. Good communication and explanation and there is nothing to "train". But for my wife and me, priority has always been the kids, prior to anything, inluding work and career.

I think that’s a wonderful philosophy. It allowed your kids to know that they’re expected to learn To use the potty, learn the mechanics and figure out the skills naturally.

I’m surprised your son was able to articulate his preference for diapers so clearly; I think that your approach lead to him naturally growing out of diapers (very quickly too!) instead of months long battles and tons of accidents.

Day training seems more straightforward because of school, but if I may ask, how would you have reacted if he’d told you he had no intention of giving up his night diaper?

 

[Dune1001]

I doubt we’ll be seeing potty training issues past kinder/ first grade as well. Btw the teachers surveyed in the article was a kindergarten teacher saying 15-20% of her class that year was not potty trained, Im also skeptical of whether or not this is actually representative of the whole US.

I’m personally on the side of allowing kids to set the pace of things, but that’s not to say kids should get the final say. Many times parents need to give that additional push to help the grow. It may be uncomfortable, time consuming and stressful to potty train but it’s a necessary life skill and I’d rather that then my kid get labeled as “the diaper kid” at school. After all, that’s the main responsibility of a parent, and any pain you spared them in potty training, they’ll more than get being bullied in school.

I also thought this regarding the 15-20% of her class. Again, I don't have children but that number just seems way too large. I suppose its easy on a board like this to think the number is higher but the member ship base here is not going to be representative of the average at all. If it genuinely is that high there is totally a problem to be addressed but perhaps that teacher has just got a bit unlucky

 

[Hell2DaNaw]

I can't speak from experience of being responsible for teaching but I really think, like most things in life, there is a balance to be struck here.

Its important to listen to the child and pick up on their feelings regarding how ready they are for it, and trying to force it too early or simply when the child is showing a lot of reluctance can lead to issues. On the other hand, you do have a responsibility for a child's development and to ensure they are ready to participate in society - not so they can 'fall in line' but for their own wellbeing. While a lot of development can happen naturally to simply place the decision in totality of when to do something as important as toilet training into the hands of the child just feels like abandoning responsibility. Even if the child seems content with it parents do have a responsibility to ensure they aren't placed into a situation detrimental to them and being unable to properly use the toilet significantly past an expected age opens the door for a lot of potential unpleasantness for the child, and by extension people in carer roles who have to regularly manage something that in theory shouldn't really be their responsbility.

Of course I'm not applying the above to everyone, some people will be later and various conditions and reasons will exist that result in training being delayed. Some kids will need more time and a more gentle approach and sometimes it will overflow a bit into school years. I also can't really imagine this snowballing into some situation where newer generations just aren't going to toilet train till later. I'm thinking more about the parents and trying to understand the mindset behind sending a child to school in Year 2 (in UK, aka 1st grade) in nappies simply because you haven't attempted to toilet train. Again, I'd like to stress the issue is not children wearing nappies at that age to school at that age, varying situations exist and the kid can't be held responsible. Its the idea parents might let this situation happen not because of different circumstances but because they'd just willingly not attempted to train.

Apparently I have stronger thoughts about the subject than I thought! I'm very open to the idea of alternative parenting techniques normally and particularly giving children more agency regarding certain choices in life, particularly in schooling in regards to what they study and how. And I guess on paper the idea of letting your child choose when to make big decisions seems good. But I feel not preparing your child to use the toilet properly is just not fair on the kid.

Completely agree with everything you said. Every child is different and applying the same lessons and milestones across the board sounds like a recipe for failure. Kiddo isn’t fully trained at age 2? No big deal. Same kid is still wearing diapers at age 6? Huge red flag.

I think for me the biggest part of all this is how easily parents seem to have just given up. “He’ll train when he’s ready” no he won’t. Junior is 5 and has two on demand but wipers, why would he give that up? Parents definitely need to push their kids to grow even if it’s uncomfortable for both parties in the short term.

Having a non-special needs child older than 4-4.5 still requiring multiple diaper changes per day sounds absolutely draining. There’s absolutely no way they’re not getting bullied at school or that this saves any time for either of them. Pure laziness.

 

[Hell2DaNaw]

I also thought this regarding the 15-20% of her class. Again, I don't have children but that number just seems way too large. I suppose its easy on a board like this to think the number is higher but the member ship base here is not going to be representative of the average at all. If it genuinely is that high there is totally a problem to be addressed but perhaps that teacher has just got a bit unlucky

Sounds about right. I’m sure this figure was exaggerated, since the whole article seems pretty inflammatory. I do seriously hope that 1/5 kids isn’t showing up to grade school still in pull-ups.

 

[CptKirk]

When people say they don't have time to take care of their kids I remind them how they sure had plenty of time to put their legs in the air. Always have time for sex and NFL games don't they.

I can DEFINITELY see how this factors into WHY I no longer coach youth sports. Too many parents being their child/childrens' best fucking friend(s) INSTEAD OF being a good fucking parent!

There's no excuse, outside of a medical issue for a 1st grade kid to still be in diapers! I would state the same thing for Kindergarten as well except I actually knew of a couple of kids (both boys and not remotely related if that matters) who REFUSED to train despite their parents forcing them to repeatedly fail training, day after day after day. That's not on the parent but a parent who admits it is easier to change a diaper than to fight with their kid over this never should have been allowed to breed, period.

I HATE when parents want to be friends with their kids, ESPECIALLY when said kids are in the most critical years of their lives as you are NOT doing that kid ANY favor whatsoever by being their friend INSTEAD OF being their parent!

CptKirk