Is late potty training becoming increasingly normalized?

[mammalun]

Sorry if I’m misinterpreting, so her teachers were saying it was ok to pump the breaks on potty training? It seems like she was ready to at least move onto pull-ups/ training pants.

Yep that's exactly what they were saying. I never used pull-ups. I used cloth diapers with both my kids and they went straight to normal underwear when they started showing signs of being ready, around 24 months for my son, my daughter was a little older. A month of dealing with the odd accident and it was all OK. But because her daycare was a bit "oh she's too young, not ready" or whatever she got confused. Because she wasn't getting the same message at home and at daycare. My son didn't have that problem (he went to daycare in a different country and didn't get this mixed message). Unlike my son, my daughter was having occasional accidents at school for months after she was quite happily dry at home.

 

[LittleAndAlone]

I can DEFINITELY see how this factors into WHY I no longer coach youth sports. Too many parents being their child/childrens' best fucking friend(s) INSTEAD OF being a good fucking parent!

There's no excuse, outside of a medical issue for a 1st grade kid to still be in diapers! I would state the same thing for Kindergarten as well except I actually knew of a couple of kids (both boys and not remotely related if that matters) who REFUSED to train despite their parents forcing them to repeatedly fail training, day after day after day. That's not on the parent but a parent who admits it is easier to change a diaper than to fight with their kid over this never should have been allowed to breed, period.

I HATE when parents want to be friends with their kids, ESPECIALLY when said kids are in the most critical years of their lives as you are NOT doing that kid ANY favor whatsoever by being their friend INSTEAD OF being their parent!

CptKirk

It's fine to be their best friend. So long as it's the kind of friend they look to as a role model, trust, and idolize. The kind of friend they side with and confide everything in and look to as a moral compass rather than succumbing to peer pressure. The kind of best friend that can say "no don't".

Being that kind of friend to your child while covertly being the parent at the same time is more preferable than not being there and allowing someone else's child of unknown values to take that role instead and conflicting with the parent's values.

 

[CptKirk]

It's fine to be their best friend. So long as it's the kind of friend they look to as a role model, trust, and idolize. The kind of friend they side with and confide everything in and look to as a moral compass rather than succumbing to peer pressure. The kind of best friend that can say "no don't".

Being that kind of friend to your child while covertly being the parent at the same time is more preferable than not being there and allowing someone else's child of unknown values to take that role instead and conflicting with the parent's values.

I don't argue against what you're saying in the least. Maybe I shouldn't use the phrase "being their best friend" and instead name it some other way as I agree with what you say. The enablers are the ones' I am speaking of though.....you know, the one whos' child can NEVER be wrong, HAS TO BE the leader./

CptKirk

 

[LittleAndAlone]

I don't argue against what you're saying in the least. Maybe I shouldn't use the phrase "being their best friend" and instead name it some other way as I agree with what you say. The enablers are the ones' I am speaking of though.....you know, the one whos' child can NEVER be wrong, HAS TO BE the leader./

CptKirk

A true best friend isn't just a simple yes man. A real best friend can say "no lets not, cmon let's go" and tug you by the sleeve and you trust them more than the crowd to look out for you and follow.

 

[Hell2DaNaw]

I can DEFINITELY see how this factors into WHY I no longer coach youth sports. Too many parents being their child/childrens' best fucking friend(s) INSTEAD OF being a good fucking parent!

Funny because I assume these parents who don’t give a rats ass about their kids development are also the ones bitching about little Johnny not getting enough play time or yelling at the refs

There's no excuse, outside of a medical issue for a 1st grade kid to still be in diapers! I would state the same thing for Kindergarten as well except I actually knew of a couple of kids (both boys and not remotely related if that matters) who REFUSED to train despite their parents forcing them to repeatedly fail training, day after day after day. That's not on the parent but a parent who admits it is easier to change a diaper than to fight with their kid over this never should have been allowed to breed, period.

I HATE when parents want to be friends with their kids, ESPECIALLY when said kids are in the most critical years of their lives as you are NOT doing that kid ANY favor whatsoever by being their friend INSTEAD OF being their parent!

CptKirk

Absolutely agree, the right choice is many times not the easy, fun or even popular choice. But it’s completely the parents responsibility to give their kids the best head start in life.

Those boys definitely sound like they’ve got some underlying health issue if they’re 6 and still refusing to train. If you don’t mind me asking, do you know if their parents were just doin the same thing over and over? I can’t imagine what having a school aged child still in diapers would even look like for these people.

I agree that it’s neglect on the parents behalf for them to just say “he’ll learn eventually, but I don’t care to put any effort in. He can just continue peeing and pooing in his pants for now”.

 

[Hell2DaNaw]

Yep that's exactly what they were saying. I never used pull-ups. I used cloth diapers with both my kids and they went straight to normal underwear when they started showing signs of being ready, around 24 months for my son, my daughter was a little older. A month of dealing with the odd accident and it was all OK. But because her daycare was a bit "oh she's too young, not ready" or whatever she got confused. Because she wasn't getting the same message at home and at daycare. My son didn't have that problem (he went to daycare in a different country and didn't get this mixed message). Unlike my son, my daughter was having occasional accidents at school for months after she was quite happily dry at home.

Geez your daughter’s school really needed to align with you on messaging. That for sure would confuse a kid and lead to them having accidents. It also seems strange the teachers would say that, after all if I could have one less dirty diaper to change I’d jump on that.

Mixed messages like this not only confuse the child and prolong them becoming independent, but the kid also learns to believe they’re incompetent.

 

[enigmatic]

I doubt we’ll be seeing potty training issues past kinder/ first grade as well. Btw the teachers surveyed in the article was a kindergarten teacher saying 15-20% of her class that year was not potty trained, Im also skeptical of whether or not this is actually representative of the whole US.

I’m personally on the side of allowing kids to set the pace of things, but that’s not to say kids should get the final say. Many times parents need to give that additional push to help the grow. It may be uncomfortable, time consuming and stressful to potty train but it’s a necessary life skill and I’d rather that then my kid get labeled as “the diaper kid” at school. After all, that’s the main responsibility of a parent, and any pain you spared them in potty training, they’ll more than get being bullied in school.

I agree that the goal should never put any kids in a position to be ostracized or bullied. I also am not defending any parent who willfully just says no to teaching a kid to use a toilet at all.

I'm going to be anecdotal a bit, but it seems to me most parents experience the opposite of what these teachers are experiencing. Most parents feel tremendous pressure to have their kids potty trained by a certain age.

Some of it is due to choice, society, but a lot of it is due to preschools. "Junior has to be trained by 3 or else he can't attend preschool." I've known a lot of parents who have had this issue. It happened to me when I was little. I'm not doubting that these teachers have seen some older kids in diapers. It happens. However, I'm dubious of this being a widespread issue. These are the same people who have the leverage to pressure parents into training their kids or else their kids won't be admitted. I can't speak for other countries, but this is definitely true for the U.S.

Other than myself, I've never seen a 5 year old in a diaper. I've certainly never seen a 6+ year old in one. My hunch is the people in this article are exaggerating their numbers because they've had a kid or two in diapers.

I think schools can stand to be kinder to parents, and the kids who need diapers for whatever reason for longer. The appropriate age a kid gets out of diapers is purely a social construct. That doesn't mean don't potty train; I just don't think a kid going to preschool at the age of 5 is a big deal.

 

[mistykitty]

I agree that the goal should never put any kids in a position to be ostracized or bullied. I also am not defending any parent who willfully just says no to teaching a kid to use a toilet at all.

I'm going to be anecdotal a bit, but it seems to me most parents experience the opposite of what these teachers are experiencing. Most parents feel tremendous pressure to have their kids potty trained by a certain age.

Some of it is due to choice, society, but a lot of it is due to preschools. "Junior has to be trained by 3 or else he can't attend preschool." I've known a lot of parents who have had this issue. It happened to me when I was little. I'm not doubting that these teachers have seen some older kids in diapers. It happens. However, I'm dubious of this being a widespread issue. These are the same people who have the leverage to pressure parents into training their kids or else their kids won't be admitted. I can't speak for other countries, but this is definitely true for the U.S.

Other than myself, I've never seen a 5 year old in a diaper. I've certainly never seen a 6+ year old in one. My hunch is the people in this article are exaggerating their numbers because they've had a kid or two in diapers.

I think schools can stand to be kinder to parents, and the kids who need diapers for whatever reason for longer. The appropriate age a kid gets out of diapers is purely a social construct. That doesn't mean don't potty train; I just don't think a kid going to preschool at the age of 5 is a big deal.

Pretty reasonable assesment here

 

[CptKirk]

Funny because I assume these parents who don’t give a rats ass about their kids development are also the ones bitching about little Johnny not getting enough play time or yelling at the refs


Absolutely agree, the right choice is many times not the easy, fun or even popular choice. But it’s completely the parents responsibility to give their kids the best head start in life.

Those boys definitely sound like they’ve got some underlying health issue if they’re 6 and still refusing to train. If you don’t mind me asking, do you know if their parents were just doin the same thing over and over? I can’t imagine what having a school aged child still in diapers would even look like for these people.

I agree that it’s neglect on the parents behalf for them to just say “he’ll learn eventually, but I don’t care to put any effort in. He can just continue peeing and pooing in his pants for now”.

One I know as an adult, quite well, to this day and no, the parents were seeing specialists, trying EVERYTHING! This particular man (today) is my former Platoon Sgt's only son and having 2 older sisters who played house with him as the baby all of the time simply didn't help matters any LOL. He was FIERCE when he didn't want to be changed though! We were all playing cards after a small get together at his house when I saw his son (who was already taller than most 7-8 year old kids as a 5 year old) was standing behind me and the smell caught my nose. I saw the front of his drenched Pamper hanging over and you could see brown through the outer shell and I told him about it. Rich called his wife and it took every single one of us chasing this kid all over the yard for a few minutes as he was DETERMINED to be left alone and he was a nimble little guy! We did catch him and he got a bath and put to bed as it was past his bedtime anyway and I was the last guy left as I only lived down the street from Rich, talking with him when he asked me if he was a "bad father". TOTALLY caught me off guard as he was an excellent Father and provider. Rich grew up with even less than I did, so for him to have a nice house, couple of nicer vehicles etc. and the ability to give his kids the life he never could have was his goal but he never once strayed from being a good father in any sense of the word. I told him then that the kid obviously didn't want to not be in Pampers and that would change in the real near future, which it did, months later. It happened almost overnight to boot. No rhyme or reason WHY his son did this, he just DID!

This "kid" is now also a veteran and well on his way to life. Both of the daughters graduated from college, one is a Physical Therapist, one is a nurse though the one who is a nurse married a "poor little rich kid" who now, even though they have a baby, is out every night of the week be it bowling, playing darts, at the casino (BIG gambler) and I am half tempted to smack some shock into his ass but I'd have to do so without Rich finding out as he wouldn't approve. No way I see this marriage lasting long at all unless he receives a MAJOR "attitude adjustment"! I feel for this daughter as she's truly in love but chose poorly sadly. She was all swept away in the shower of gifts and such and married him, got pregnant and he decided that his job was done and he could go back to life as it was prior to him meeting this girl.

The other kid was one of my cousin's kids though it was eventually learned that he's autistic. He too is a young adult now but sadly his problems require continuous care though I never saw him in diapers after he was 5-6 or so, in that range.

 

[mistykitty]

I have to say what @enigmatic stated about it being partly a society thing some places is definitely right. I agree it's wrong to put a child in a situation where they can be bullied or similar but at the same time societal norms shouldn't take precedence over what's better for the kid. Everyone develops differently at least a little bit so there is no one right way so trying to force something based on a societal norm is not right. I do have to admit though parents refusing to be parents is definitely becoming a bigger thing though. I would say it's a contributing factor but like others here have mentioned parents that are to relaxed can be a factor though if they get to relaxed. I will also say here in the US it does seem like this kind of thing (permissive parenting) is becoming more common.

 

[TabaCrate]

I think that’s a wonderful philosophy. It allowed your kids to know that they’re expected to learn To use the potty, learn the mechanics and figure out the skills naturally.

I’m surprised your son was able to articulate his preference for diapers so clearly; I think that your approach lead to him naturally growing out of diapers (very quickly too!) instead of months long battles and tons of accidents.

Day training seems more straightforward because of school, but if I may ask, how would you have reacted if he’d told you he had no intention of giving up his night diaper?

Well, how would I have reacted if he would have decided to keep the diapers?
Initially, the diapers would still be available!. But knowing him, he would have much probably stopped discretely not long time after. Like everything he did!
Walking later and refused any help. Suddenly he was walking.. came from nowhere! Same for bicycle, reading, ski, ...

BTW: He wasn't able to clearly articulate his whishes about diapers but I was able to see the signs like fully accepting changes, remind the diaper before bed, not removing his diaper himself in the morning even when totally soaked, it was always me that removed it. He was dry during the day but if the night diaper was present, it was fully used (and often dry at wakeup).

 

[NappiedB]

yeah parents nowadays seem more relaxed, and while I agree that waiting may lead to a quicker potty training, many parents seem to be waiting for the kid to say “mom, dad I don’t want diapers anymore. I want to use the toilet” which if the kid has only ever worn diapers what incentive would they have to do that? As a kid, I’d be mortified wearing a diaper to school. You’d be mercilessly bullied!

I couldn’t agree more! I think potty training should definitely be lead by the parents, but that there are certainly arguments for why this should occur later when the child is more likely to be ready compared to earlier, and possibly causing all sorts of negative feelings towards the potty for the child by training them when they’re just not ready. I think if parents don’t push the child at all, they’ll never want to give up their diapers and you’re right, may end up being bullied at school.

Do you think your cousins baby is stuck in a cycle? Advanced diaper tech stops the kiddo from feeling uncomfortable in wet/ dirty diapers so she doesn’t see a reason to stick with underwear, which immediately feel gross after an accident? Did they say whether they plan to train her again anytime soon?

Absolutely! It’s all she’s known from birth. And while she now clearly recognises when she’s going in her diaper, there’s no need to stop what she’s doing and do something about it as her diaper will keep her dry and comfortable until her mom changes her. They said they’re gonna have another go in the summer when the weather’s a bit better if she hasn’t decided to go on the potty by herself by then. But by that time she’ll be 4.5 and close to starting school so time is really running out :/

 

[PurpleScorpion]

In theory (because I am admitting that I am not a parent) there shouldn't be anything wrong with later potty training.

That being said, we should be understanding to a certain point. Sometimes, parents are busy. Sometimes, it's not a right time (see any potty training guide that states that you shouldn't start if you're moving, or there's just been a death, or a new child was just born, or divorce, etc.).

You can lead a horse (toddler) to water (the potty) but you can't make him drink (poop), as it were. You can encourage 'big kid' behavior, you can show them how you use the toilet, but it's got to be the toddler's decision at some point.

 

[Hell2DaNaw]

I couldn’t agree more! I think potty training should definitely be lead by the parents, but that there are certainly arguments for why this should occur later when the child is more likely to be ready compared to earlier, and possibly causing all sorts of negative feelings towards the potty for the child by training them when they’re just not ready. I think if parents don’t push the child at all, they’ll never want to give up their diapers and you’re right, may end up being bullied at school.


Absolutely! It’s all she’s known from birth. And while she now clearly recognises when she’s going in her diaper, there’s no need to stop what she’s doing and do something about it as her diaper will keep her dry and comfortable until her mom changes her. They said they’re gonna have another go in the summer when the weather’s a bit better if she hasn’t decided to go on the potty by herself by then. But by that time she’ll be 4.5 and close to starting school so time is really running out :/

Yeah for sure, I agree that training should be tailored to each kid. it’s just a fact of life that some will simply take longer to get there. I think what we’re seeing is more of the “permissive parenting” trend, where mom and dad simply don’t feel like taking on the hassle of getting rid of diapers.

 

[Hell2DaNaw]

In theory (because I am admitting that I am not a parent) there shouldn't be anything wrong with later potty training.

That being said, we should be understanding to a certain point. Sometimes, parents are busy. Sometimes, it's not a right time (see any potty training guide that states that you shouldn't start if you're moving, or there's just been a death, or a new child was just born, or divorce, etc.).

You can lead a horse (toddler) to water (the potty) but you can't make him drink (poop), as it were. You can encourage 'big kid' behavior, you can show them how you use the toilet, but it's got to be the toddler's decision at some point.

every kid is unique and some will simply take longer, I fully agree. And stressful times with big life changes are definitely not the right time to initiate, since you’re likely setting your self and your kid up for failure. It’s even common for fully trained kids to regress during times like these.

But that said, how much patience do you think society should have? At what point is it simply not ok for a neurotypical, non disabled kid to still be in diapers?

 

[CptKirk]

every kid is unique and some will simply take longer, I fully agree. And stressful times with big life changes are definitely not the right time to initiate, since you’re likely setting your self and your kid up for failure. It’s even common for fully trained kids to regress during times like these.

But that said, how much patience do you think society should have? At what point is it simply not ok for a neurotypical, non disabled kid to still be in diapers?

Except in the rare outlier, every kid past their 4th birthday SHOULD BE trained. IF the kid refuses that's one thing and you just have to out-wait them but if it's because the parents "don't feel like dealing with the aggravation" well then! Those parents need a smack upside of the head. Face it, a 5 year old (who is in school) who is still not potty trained will become so by sheer peer pressure almost overnight and will be bullied mercilessly by others for not being trained!

WHY set a kid up for failure when your #1 job as a parent is to set them up to succeed?

My Platoon Sgt's son was held out of school that additional year BECAUSE he refused to train and he never stepped through a school door wearing a diaper. Sending a kid to school who has no disability in diapers is irresponsible on behalf of the parents.

That makes it that every kid is trained on or shortly after their 4th birthday as my answer for the reasons listed above alone.

CptKirk

 

[Calico]

I had difficulty with toilet training and wore training pants till I was maybe 5 before I started wearing regular underwear. I quit diapers on my own so it's not like my parent decided to take them away, when I quit, I was put into training pants. I did lot of potty chair sitting as well and I had a fear of big toilets. My mom practically had to sit with me while I used the toilet.

I can see diapers being easier but I would prefer pull ups if your kid has accidents so that way there is no mess to clean up and the kid can just change into a dry pull up if they had an accident. Training pants don't hold full voids.

I potty trained both of mine starting at age two and they were fully trained at age 3.

If a kid is refusing to toilet train, take them to a child therapist or something. This is unusual behavior for a child. This only applies if they get to age 4 and they still refuse to use the toilet. Under age 4, it's considered normal to not be out of diapers yet. If your kid is still having lot of accidents past age 3, doctor it is to check for medical issues. If your kid does have a medical condition to cause it, then your kid is an exception to being in diapers late and schools have to accommodate it by law because it is a disability.

 

[Hell2DaNaw]

Except in the rare outlier, every kid past their 4th birthday SHOULD BE trained. IF the kid refuses that's one thing and you just have to out-wait them but if it's because the parents "don't feel like dealing with the aggravation" well then! Those parents need a smack upside of the head. Face it, a 5 year old (who is in school) who is still not potty trained will become so by sheer peer pressure almost overnight and will be bullied mercilessly by others for not being trained!

WHY set a kid up for failure when your #1 job as a parent is to set them up to succeed?

My Platoon Sgt's son was held out of school that additional year BECAUSE he refused to train and he never stepped through a school door wearing a diaper. Sending a kid to school who has no disability in diapers is irresponsible on behalf of the parents.

That makes it that every kid is trained on or shortly after their 4th birthday as my answer for the reasons listed above alone.

CptKirk

I think 4 is a good cutoff. IMO kids should absolutely be going to the bathroom independently when they start elementary school. Teachers already have enough on their plates without having to worry about changing diapers or wiping butts.

Do you know what finally got your Platoon Sgts son potty trained? Was it peer pressure or did he one day decide he was done with diapers?

 

[Hell2DaNaw]

I had difficulty with toilet training and wore training pants till I was maybe 5 before I started wearing regular underwear. I quit diapers on my own so it's not like my parent decided to take them away, when I quit, I was put into training pants. I did lot of potty chair sitting as well and I had a fear of big toilets. My mom practically had to sit with me while I used the toilet.

I can see diapers being easier but I would prefer pull ups if your kid has accidents so that way there is no mess to clean up and the kid can just change into a dry pull up if they had an accident. Training pants don't hold full voids.

I potty trained both of mine starting at age two and they were fully trained at age 3.

If a kid is refusing to toilet train, take them to a child therapist or something. This is unusual behavior for a child. This only applies if they get to age 4 and they still refuse to use the toilet. Under age 4, it's considered normal to not be out of diapers yet. If your kid is still having lot of accidents past age 3, doctor it is to check for medical issues. If your kid does have a medical condition to cause it, then your kid is an exception to being in diapers late and schools have to accommodate it by law because it is a disability.

By training pants do you mean pull-ups or are you referring to the cloth underwear with extra padding?

I’m not sure where I stand on the use of pull-ups. Sure it’ll contain a small accident, but doesn’t that just reinforce the kid being permitted to go in their pants? After all a pullup is just a less absorbent diaper with rip able sides.

 

[CptKirk]

I think 4 is a good cutoff. IMO kids should absolutely be going to the bathroom independently when they start elementary school. Teachers already have enough on their plates without having to worry about changing diapers or wiping butts.

Do you know what finally got your Platoon Sgts son potty trained? Was it peer pressure or did he one day decide he was done with diapers?

One day he simply told his mother that he wanted to wear "big boy undies" and that was that. He maybe had 2 or 3 accidents afterwards and he was trained within weeks. He FOUGHT LIKE HELL to that point to still be in Pampers! This kid was determined as all hell! I couldn't believe how hard he'd fight getting changed even when his diaper was SO full that you were waiting for it to explode! He'd make you chase him all over the place and even then he'd be kicking and screaming the entire time he was being cleaned up! Then, like a light switch, he decided he was ready. Not much you can do with a kid like that except outwait them and remain patient.