Unintentional diaper training

[Fabpad]

And yet they are still muscles you either conscioisly or unconsciously control. And being muscles, like all other muscles in our body, if they don't get used they will atrophy. What exactly is it that makes you think otherwise?

I don't think. I know this.

As mentioned, your heart is ALWAYS working. But you did touch almost get it right. If you don't ever work out and stress your heart just enough then over time it too will get weaker. And yes, eventually you would die from a weak heart. Look it up for yourself, this does happen, and is in fact happening to my own mother right now.

And yes, it IS possible to train your external sphincter to remain open all the time (or at least not always closed). This is how we start out as babies, and only through the mental conditioning of potty training do we learn to keep it reflexively closed. Because we have full conscious control of our external sphincter.

You are also wrong, it is our internal (or bladder neck) sphincter which we have no conscious control over. That doesn't mean it isn't being controlled though. IF the external sphincter is always open, our subconscious minds will slowly learn there is no need to hold the internal sphincter closed as often. And yes, that means with time it too will beging to atrophy. Come on now, this is simple biology. You should be able to understand this stuff.

This is so full of misinformation I don't even know where to start.
First, "weak heart" is totally unrelated to our discussion and involves an infarction and not lack of use.
Second, you can't consciously keep external sphincter open at all times (try and see if you can keep a hole opened in your anus 24/7)
Third, babies also have a tonically contracted external sphincter but the parasympathetic reflex at S2-S4 occurs without any interruption

Please try to listen to criticism.

 

[Slomo]

I don't think. I know this.



This is so full of misinformation I don't even know where to start.
First, "weak heart" is totally unrelated to our discussion and involves an infarction and not lack of use.
Second, you can't consciously keep external sphincter open at all times (try and see if you can keep a hole opened in your anus 24/7)
Third, babies also have a tonically contracted external sphincter but the parasympathetic reflex at S2-S4 occurs without any interruption

Please try to listen to criticism.

Oh I'm listening. Your own misinformation and misbelief is so staggering I find it laughable. I've done my research, and I'm living the proof of it right now too. If you truly believe I'm wrong, then please do show me the proof that backs up your misbeliefs. You'll be hard pressed to find contradictory evidence to keeping your external sphincter constantly relaxed (though like I've already said not necessarily always in a directly open state). You're also going to be hard pressed to find contradictory evidence to lifestyle enduced cardiomyopathy. Good luck though, you'll need it.

 

[Fabpad]

Oh I'm listening. Your own misinformation and misbelief is so staggering I find it laughable. I've done my research, and I'm living the proof of it right now too. If you truly believe I'm wrong, then please do show me the proof that backs up your misbeliefs. You'll be hard pressed to find contradictory evidence to keeping your external sphincter constantly relaxed (though like I've already said not necessarily always in a directly open state). You're also going to be hard pressed to find contradictory evidence to lifestyle enduced cardiomyopathy. Good luck though, you'll need it.

You're not listening though. I've literally spent the last 5 years studying the human body so i'm pretty confident in what i'm saying, especially considering that this is basic stuff.

 

[mayhem]

And yet they are still muscles you either conscioisly or unconsciously control. And being muscles, like all other muscles in our body, if they don't get used they will atrophy. What exactly is it that makes you think otherwise?

The majority of their use is subconscious. That keeps them healthy and functioning. You need to read an anatomy book and educate yourself in this.

 

[mayhem]

As mentioned, your heart is ALWAYS working. But you did touch almost get it right. If you don't ever work out and stress your heart just enough then over time it too will get weaker. And yes, eventually you would die from a weak heart. Look it up for yourself, this does happen, and is in fact happening to my own mother right now.

And yes, it IS possible to train your external sphincter to remain open all the time (or at least not always closed). This is how we start out as babies, and only through the mental conditioning of potty training do we learn to keep it reflexively closed. Because we have full conscious control of our external sphincter.

You are also wrong, it is our internal (or bladder neck) sphincter which we have no conscious control over. That doesn't mean it isn't being controlled though. IF the external sphincter is always open, our subconscious minds will slowly learn there is no need to hold the internal sphincter closed as often. And yes, that means with time it too will beging to atrophy. Come on now, this is simple biology. You should be able to understand this stuff.

You’re the one that needs to understand simple biology. You clearly have no grasp of even the basics. No, you cannot train your external sphincter to remain open. You also need to learn how to read and comprehend because I clearly stated that the internal sphincter is the one we cannot control. You also have absolutely no grasp of psychology either. No our minds cannot physically keep out external sphincter open either. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself.

 

[mayhem]

Oh I'm listening. Your own misinformation and misbelief is so staggering I find it laughable. I've done my research, and I'm living the proof of it right now too. If you truly believe I'm wrong, then please do show me the proof that backs up your misbeliefs. You'll be hard pressed to find contradictory evidence to keeping your external sphincter constantly relaxed (though like I've already said not necessarily always in a directly open state). You're also going to be hard pressed to find contradictory evidence to lifestyle enduced cardiomyopathy. Good luck though, you'll need it.

The burden of proof is on you with your foolish and uneducated assumptions/opinions. Please show us any peer reviewed scholarly article that shows evidence that your original post bears truth. We’ll be waiting.

 

[Slomo]

The majority of their use is subconscious. That keeps them healthy and functioning. You need to read an anatomy book and educate yourself in this.

Just because muscle control is subconscious simply does nit mean it can't ever be weakened over tim. If a person were to have a complete heart bypass with their heart still left "functioning" as it was, that subconscious control of the heart would NOT keep it completely healthy. The exact same with bypassing, removing, or otherwise always keeping the external sphincter open would also apply. The subconscious control of ones internal sphincter will keep it health for a time, sure, but eventually the body WILL adapt to not needing to keep it closed all the time. It WILL atrophy with time as that subconscious control is lessened over time. How you guys are not seeing something so incredibly basic like this is laughable. I'm done debating this with you untill you can provide the citations I've already asked for.

Ps. Heres just one link about heart failure. I've read tons of these because it's what's my mom is going through right now. So yeah, research for this is done on my part.

Cardiomyopathy: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

Cardiomyopathy is disease in which the heart muscle becomes weakened, stretched, or has another structural problem. It often contributes to the heart's inability to pump or function well.

medlineplus.gov

And heres a good paper teaching about muscle atroph in general. Class is in so take notes on how even the little things like malnutrition and lack of exercise (you know, lifestyle) can affect the entire body's muscular system.

Cellular and molecular mechanisms of muscle atrophy

Skeletal muscle is a plastic organ that is maintained by multiple pathways regulating cell and protein turnover. During muscle atrophy, proteolytic systems are activated, and contractile proteins and organelles are removed, resulting in the shrinkage ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ok, your turn for some proof this stuff can never possibly happen. Or better yet can we maybe get back to my original topic now that were done with you trying to derail it???

 

[mayhem]

Just because muscle control is subconscious simply does nit mean it can't ever be weakened over tim. If a person were to have a complete heart bypass with their heart still left "functioning" as it was, that subconscious control of the heart would NOT keep it completely healthy. The exact same with bypassing, removing, or otherwise always keeping the external sphincter open would also apply. The subconscious control of ones internal sphincter will keep it health for a time, sure, but eventually the body WILL adapt to not needing to keep it closed all the time. It WILL atrophy with time as that subconscious control is lessened over time. How you guys are not seeing something so incredibly basic like this is laughable. I'm done debating this with you untill you can provide the citations I've already asked for.

Ps. Heres just one link about heart failure. I've read tons of these because it's what's my mom is going through right now. So yeah, research for this is done on my part.

Cardiomyopathy: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

Cardiomyopathy is disease in which the heart muscle becomes weakened, stretched, or has another structural problem. It often contributes to the heart's inability to pump or function well.

medlineplus.gov

And heres a good paper teaching about muscle atroph in general. Class is in so take notes on how even the little things like malnutrition and lack of exercise (you know, lifestyle) can affect the entire body's muscular system.

Cellular and molecular mechanisms of muscle atrophy

Skeletal muscle is a plastic organ that is maintained by multiple pathways regulating cell and protein turnover. During muscle atrophy, proteolytic systems are activated, and contractile proteins and organelles are removed, resulting in the shrinkage ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ok, your turn for some proof this stuff can never possibly happen. Or better yet can we maybe get back to my original topic now that were done with you trying to derail it???

This paper proves absolutely nothing. You still have yet to prove your original post. You're simply wrong and fail to prove that you're right. Giving some generalized article about the heart (when we're talking about the external sphincter and bladder) is entirely useless. Maybe you should refrain from posting things that you know absolutely nothing about. All you've done is make a fool of yourself.

 

[Slomo]

This paper proves absolutely nothing. You still have yet to prove your original post. You're simply wrong and fail to prove that you're right. Giving some generalized article about the heart (when we're talking about the external sphincter and bladder) is entirely useless. Maybe you should refrain from posting things that you know absolutely nothing about. All you've done is make a fool of yourself.

Right, yeah, ok. Constantly using ones diaper at the first sign of needing to go will NEVER lead to urinary incontinence, because muscle atropy is impossible. You hear that everyone, mayhem knows this is a fact and neither your experiences nor any bit of actual researched proof will ever show he is wrong.

 

[mayhem]

Right, yeah, ok. Constantly using ones diaper at the first sign of needing to go will NEVER lead to urinary incontinence, because muscle atropy is impossible. You hear that everyone, mayhem knows this is a fact and neither your experiences nor any bit of actual researched proof will ever show he is wrong.

You didn’t show any “research” to prove me wrong. Just because you want it to be real doesn’t make it so. You lack the fundamental understanding of how atrophy works for the muscles in the urinary system. You called someone with vastly more education than you on the subject “laughable”. I don’t think anyone will change your simple mind. It seems clear that you have made up your mind on your fantasy belief and defenestrate any opposition to your false belief. We’re still waiting on the peer reviewed proof that you will never post (because it doesn’t exist).

 

[Slomo]

You didn’t show any “research” to prove me wrong. Just because you want it to be real doesn’t make it so. You lack the fundamental understanding of how atrophy works for the muscles in the urinary system. You called someone with vastly more education than you on the subject “laughable”. I don’t think anyone will change your simple mind. It seems clear that you have made up your mind on your fantasy belief and defenestrate any opposition to your false belief. We’re still waiting on the peer reviewed proof that you will never post (because it doesn’t exist).

Still waiting on your own research and citations. First give me something-anything- to show muscle atrophy can never happen and then I'll counter with more evidence.

Or once again, and better yet, quit trying to derail my thread with your nonsense or I'll be forced to report you to the admins.

 

[wildcat]

Why fight so much when everyone thinks they are right? State your case and move on.

Atrophy? I don’t know. Seems like that would take a long time. What I do know is that I’ve weakened my external sphincter by not excercising it over the past three months. That means constantly wearing and releasing before pressure builds up. I leak urine and semen involuntarily while defecating and that’s never happened before. There’s no automatic clenching after most releases. It’s a conscious effort to reach that state of relaxation but it is possible, at least for me. Is my sprinter open? I don’t know. What I do know is that it is weakening, even to the point of aiding in consistent bed wetting.

 

[Fabpad]

Just because muscle control is subconscious simply does nit mean it can't ever be weakened over tim. If a person were to have a complete heart bypass with their heart still left "functioning" as it was, that subconscious control of the heart would NOT keep it completely healthy. The exact same with bypassing, removing, or otherwise always keeping the external sphincter open would also apply. The subconscious control of ones internal sphincter will keep it health for a time, sure, but eventually the body WILL adapt to not needing to keep it closed all the time. It WILL atrophy with time as that subconscious control is lessened over time. How you guys are not seeing something so incredibly basic like this is laughable. I'm done debating this with you untill you can provide the citations I've already asked for.

Ps. Heres just one link about heart failure. I've read tons of these because it's what's my mom is going through right now. So yeah, research for this is done on my part.

Cardiomyopathy: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

Cardiomyopathy is disease in which the heart muscle becomes weakened, stretched, or has another structural problem. It often contributes to the heart's inability to pump or function well.

medlineplus.gov

And heres a good paper teaching about muscle atroph in general. Class is in so take notes on how even the little things like malnutrition and lack of exercise (you know, lifestyle) can affect the entire body's muscular system.

Cellular and molecular mechanisms of muscle atrophy

Skeletal muscle is a plastic organ that is maintained by multiple pathways regulating cell and protein turnover. During muscle atrophy, proteolytic systems are activated, and contractile proteins and organelles are removed, resulting in the shrinkage ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ok, your turn for some proof this stuff can never possibly happen. Or better yet can we maybe get back to my original topic now that were done with you trying to derail it???

I try to be nice as much as possible, but right now you've reached the point where you're basically a little booboo that doesn't want to listen to the grown ups. Do you argue with your doctor this much too?

You're constantly throwing new arguments into the debate and not answering previous ones, so our discussion tends to go round and round in a chaotic fashion. You link an article about cardiomyopathy - not even sure what the point of that is as it doesn't contradict what i'm arguing - then you link an article about muscle atrophy which again doesn't disprove my argumentation. Try not to resort to the classic straw man fallacy when you're arguing with someone - it's quite irritating.

 

[Calico]

My bladder only shrunk so it will only hold less pee before my brain gets the signal I need to go potty. It is so used to being empty it will act like it's a full bladder when in fact it's 1/4 full. I never lost bladder control, I only shrunk it. No one likes feeling the urge to pee because it's uncomfortable to hold and distracting so that is why I have to go more often and I feel more comfortable wearing a diaper and I can just go.

 

[Slomo]

I try to be nice as much as possible, but right now you've reached the point where you're basically a little booboo that doesn't want to listen to the grown ups. Do you argue with your doctor this much too?

You're constantly throwing new arguments into the debate and not answering previous ones, so our discussion tends to go round and round in a chaotic fashion. You link an article about cardiomyopathy - not even sure what the point of that is as it doesn't contradict what i'm arguing - then you link an article about muscle atrophy which again doesn't disprove my argumentation. Try not to resort to the classic straw man fallacy when you're arguing with someone - it's quite irritating.

For the record, this thread wasn't even started with the intent of a debate, nor was I making an argument. It was a statement. One made in response to all the others who have been unintentionally diaper training themselves, and then being surprised or worried it might be leading to incontinence. And like I said, it is. There is no debating that, and your attempt to argue that is what's been so laughable.

The links, both of them, were to proove to mayhem that muscle atrophy can ocuur to any muscle in the body. Consciously or subconciously controlled, contantly in under-used conditions or not used at all. The fact of which seems to have gone over both of your heads, just as much as realizing diaper training can clearly lead to incontinence.

 

[Fabpad]

For the record, this thread wasn't even started with the intent of a debate, nor was I making an argument. It was a statement. One made in response to all the others who have been unintentionally diaper training themselves, and then being surprised or worried it might be leading to incontinence. And like I said, it is. There is no debating that, and your attempt to argue that is what's been so laughable.

The links, both of them, were to proove to mayhem that muscle atrophy can ocuur to any muscle in the body. Consciously or subconciously controlled, contantly in under-used conditions or not used at all. The fact of which seems to have gone over both of your heads, just as much as realizing diaper training can clearly lead to incontinence.

Of course muscle atrophy can occur anywhere due to a multitude of reasons, but that's not what we've been discussing. Once again you pull the straw man argument.

 

[Diaperedguzzy]

Yes atrophy is possible but in extreme conditions and would require the aid of a paralytic as involuntary spasms occur. One can train the relaxation of the pelvic floor muscles as well as the frequent release of the muscles contracting the bladder at the slightest urges. It’s like when you are standing in the shower or sitting on the toilet and seem to pee without feeling or thought it just happens. Over time this can lead to a weakening of the secondary muscles and you almost forget how to use them. Permanent atrophy without neurological disfunction is extremely unlikely.

 

[flipside]

Permanent atrophy without neurological disfunction is extremely unlikely.

Can I just say I like this response the best. Everyone else is dealing with absolutes and I think that's why they are going around in circles. Possible but unlikely is much better than will happen or will never happen.

 

[Slomo]

Of course muscle atrophy can occur anywhere due to a multitude of reasons, but that's not what we've been discussing. Once again you pull the straw man argument.

It is exactly what we have been discussing. The possiblity of muscle atrophy within the internal sphincter muscle. Gods, you dont even know what the topic of this thread is do you. You've been arguing just for the sake of trolling. Please quit or I'll be reporting you as well.

 

[Slomo]

The majority of their use is subconscious. That keeps them healthy and functioning. You need to read an anatomy book and educate yourself in this.

Did you forget about this post then?