Unintentional diaper training

Slomo

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This seems to keep coming up as of late, so just putting this out there to answer everyone's question. IF you wear a diaper very often or a lot (like more than half of every day), and you freely pee in that diaper at the first sign of needing to go, then you are unintentionally diaper traning (or reverse potty training). You WILL weaken your sphincter and bladder muscles. And yes, over time this will lead to difficulty holding it. Whether this is your original intent or not, please take note that IS what you're doing.

Please do not be surprise or wonder if always using your diaper is possibly leading to incontinence. It is. Please also note that while acheiving incontnence is a goal for some, it is not for everyone. Even for some who believe it's what they want yet don't even understand what it's like to wear a diaper ALL the time.

Rest assured that wearing a diaper 24/7, will in itself NOT cause incontinemce problems. It's always using them at the first sign of needing to pee. I highly suggest anyone looking to become incontinent to first wear a diaper 24/7, but continue to hold it normally. After a few months (or even a year), then reasses wheter you want to become incontinent. The social implications and cost alone may make you change your mind.

For those who find themselves becoming incontinent from constant diaper use, seriously stop for a moment and think through if this is really what you want or not. If yes, great keep on at it. If not, you better start holding it again. And keep holding it for as long as you can before peeing. Constantly, and for anywhere from 3 months to 3 years. Be ready for the pain too, as some adults find they no longer have the same resolve we did originally potty training, and will not be able to regain continence. Add in kegel exercises too, and purposely downgrade your diapers to a cheap pullup or pad. You'll get there eventually, but always remember that for you diapers are a part time thing only. It's either that, or accept diapers are a full time thing now.
 

jasonm03

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I say it and I say it often I would never wish incontinence on anyone. I wear diapers because I need diapers not because I want to wear diapers. Too many people play around with diapers and then are surprised with the outcome of using diapers at the first sign of needing to pee.
 

Fabpad

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I just want to add, because this happened to me, that be aware that potty training is hard, hard work. You're going to be uncomfortable trying to hold it every hour (that's how often my bladder has to empty nowadays).

I remember several years ago before these changes had occurred, that in order for me to release myself in the diaper I had to stand up, take a deep breath, relax and push a little. It was a whole procedure just to be able to pee. This tightly locked bladder is now gone.

Just to compare, today if I'm not in the mood to potty train my bladder would squeeze out pee every 30 minutes completely on its own. I don't know what I did over the years to cause that automatization. I kinda like it as a DL, but it has caused some leaks when I'm fully focused on one task and all of a sudden my bladder tries to empty. So during 0.2 seconds some pee leaks before I react.

I have to wear pull ups today in order to retrain. My goal is to not wet every hour, but every three hours. I don't know if I will ever regain my continence, but I'll try to make it better.
 

Missy1

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I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy either and i only wear this darn things 24 /7 because i DONT have a choice and i HATE it but im also greatfull they & all the extra IC products exist and have accepted my faith of having to wear for the rest of my life.
 

mayhem

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Actually it doesn’t weaken your sphincter muscles at all. Your bladder doesn’t weaken either. Your bladder will hold less volume and give you the urge to urinate more often. That is all. The rest is psychosomatic.
 

Fabpad

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Actually it doesn’t weaken your sphincter muscles at all. Your bladder doesn’t weaken either. Your bladder will hold less volume and give you the urge to urinate more often. That is all. The rest is psychosomatic.
You're right. In my case i've been using foley catheters for years and that has possibly weakened my sphincter. But in general pure diaper training won't due much other than urge incontinence (which is a problem that can affect your daily life anyway).
 

mayhem

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You're right. In my case i've been using foley catheters for years and that has possibly weakened my sphincter. But in general pure diaper training won't due much other than urge incontinence (which is a problem that can affect your daily life anyway).
Correct. The internal sphincter is involuntary. The external sphincter is the one we consciously must open to urinate. The only way the external sphincter can atrophy is calcification, scaring, or nerve damage that causes it to remain open. It’s physically impossible to have it atrophy from just holding it open or releasing as soon as you have to urinate.
 
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Slomo

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Actually it doesn’t weaken your sphincter muscles at all. Your bladder doesn’t weaken either. Your bladder will hold less volume and give you the urge to urinate more often. That is all. The rest is psychosomatic.
Correct. The internal sphincter is involuntary. The external sphincter is the one we consciously must open to urinate. The only way the external sphincter can atrophy is calcification, scaring, or nerve damage that causes it to remain open. It’s physically impossible to have it atrophy from just holding it open or releasing as soon as you have to urinate.
Not correct. Straight from my own urologist, and my own experience. Not actively using your sphingter or bladder muscles absolutely will lead to muscle atrophy. The external sphincter will weaken first, and when your unconscious contol for the internal sphincter is no longer needed it too will beging to atrophy. This is the same for ANY muscle in our body. Don't use it, and you will loose it. The bladder is no different here either. Yes it will first shrink, but it will also loose it's ability to stretch relaxed and contract with as much force. Which this is in part what leads to urgency incontinence and/or a weak stream.
 

Fabpad

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Not correct. Straight from my own urologist, and my own experience. Not actively using your sphingter or bladder muscles absolutely will lead to muscle atrophy. The external sphincter will weaken first, and when your unconscious contol for the internal sphincter is no longer needed it too will beging to atrophy. This is the same for ANY muscle in our body. Don't use it, and you will loose it. The bladder is no different here either. Yes it will first shrink, but it will also loose it's ability to stretch relaxed and contract with as much force. Which this is in part what leads to urgency incontinence and/or a weak stream.
The difference is that your peripheral muscles are not tonically contracted like your sphincters are.
 

Diaperedguzzy

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This is correct. I have been practicing relaxation and frequent bladder emptying for years. I have had a urodynamics test done which shows weak and shrunken bladder. I can not force a stream and leak very frequently. If I try hard I can keep from peeing a short time but if I do anything physical I lose control. If the stream has already started I can not stop it. I am very happy I reached this point and hope that it continues to become more involuntary. I know this is for life and it is a goal I set to achieve almost ten years ago.
 

mayhem

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Not correct. Straight from my own urologist, and my own experience. Not actively using your sphingter or bladder muscles absolutely will lead to muscle atrophy. The external sphincter will weaken first, and when your unconscious contol for the internal sphincter is no longer needed it too will beging to atrophy. This is the same for ANY muscle in our body. Don't use it, and you will loose it. The bladder is no different here either. Yes it will first shrink, but it will also loose it's ability to stretch relaxed and contract with as much force. Which this is in part what leads to urgency incontinence and/or a weak stream.
I’m sorry but you’re wrong. That isn’t how biology works. Do you think if you don’t work out that your heart will weaken and stop? Maybe you misunderstood him. Your subconscious keeps your external sphincter closed. Like I said you have to consciously open it to urinate. It would be impossible to consciously keep it open enough for it to atrophy. You’re simply wrong. I’m presenting facts, not opinion.
 
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flipside

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Do you think if you don’t work out that your heart will weaken and stop?
Except that your heart is always working. If you were able to consciously relax your heart so that it didn't beat (and that didn't kill you) and you kept it relaxed as long as possible, and every time you felt it working again you relaxed it again, why wouldn't it weaken and atrophy? Muscle is muscle, no matter where it is.

I'm not saying you're wrong or that Slomo is correct, because I only have suppositions, not facts. I'm just saying the heart is not a valid example in this case.
 
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Fabpad

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Except that your heart is always working. If you were able to consciously relax your heart so that it didn't beat (and that didn't kill you) and you kept it relaxed as long as possible, and every time you felt it working again you relaxed it again, why wouldn't it weaken and atrophy? Muscle is muscle, no matter where it is.

I'm not saying you're wrong or that Slomo is correct, because I only have suppositions, not facts. I'm just saying the heart is not a valid example in this case.
I don't know what the purpose is of discussing fictional scenarios, but "muscle is muscle no matter where it is" is not quite correct. There are different types of muscles, some of which you can't control (heart being one of them). The smooth muscles lining your gut isn't something you can consciously control either, hence why you can't atrophy those muscles by sheer will.
 

flipside

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There are different types of muscles, some of which you can't control (heart being one of them). The smooth muscles lining your gut isn't something you can consciously control either, hence why you can't atrophy those muscles by sheer will.
But the external sphincter is something you can consciously control. The fact that most people subconsciously keep it contracted (and in use) does not mean that when someone consciously keeps it relaxed whenever they realize it's not relaxed, that it wont atrophy over time.

Now if the person above mentioned the internal sphincter, over which we have no conscious control, rather than the external one, the heart analogy or stomach lining muscles would make perfect sense.
 

mayhem

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But the external sphincter is something you can consciously control. The fact that most people subconsciously keep it contracted (and in use) does not mean that when someone consciously keeps it relaxed whenever they realize it's not relaxed, that it wont atrophy over time.

Now if the person above mentioned the internal sphincter, over which we have no conscious control, rather than the external one, the heart analogy or stomach lining muscles would make perfect sense.
You can relax the external sphincter. However, it cannot be relaxed to a constant degree where atrophy takes place. It's biologically impossible without some underlying condition. The original post is untrue. As for the heart, you can indeed slow it down by conscious thought, but like the external sphincter as soon as you break that conscience, you regain subconscious function. It's simply impossible on a biological level. The original post is simply bullshit.
 

lilshelly

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I hate to say it folks but diaper training or not. I am finding this topic to be borderline wrong. Especially for those who are truly suffering from incontinence. I say if you want it go for it ,but there are many reasons for true incontinence. Argue over it all you want there are many people who would trade that one moment in life which caused their problems. Sorry for the rant thanks for letting me put my 2 cents worth .
 

mayhem

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I hate to say it folks but diaper training or not. I am finding this topic to be borderline wrong. Especially for those who are truly suffering from incontinence. I say if you want it go for it ,but there are many reasons for true incontinence. Argue over it all you want there are many people who would trade that one moment in life which caused their problems. Sorry for the rant thanks for letting me put my 2 cents worth .
Agreed. I’d love to take back the moment I destroyed my back. I’d love to be able to function like I used to with out fear(s). But that isn’t the case for me and most of us. However, in the mean time, I will do what I can to stop the spreading of misinformation and building the foundation of ignorance on topics that I have some modicum of education.
 

Slomo

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The difference is that your peripheral muscles are not tonically contracted like your sphincters are.
And yet they are still muscles you either conscioisly or unconsciously control. And being muscles, like all other muscles in our body, if they don't get used they will atrophy. What exactly is it that makes you think otherwise?
 

Slomo

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I’m sorry but you’re wrong. That isn’t how biology works. Do you think if you don’t work out that your heart will weaken and stop? Maybe you misunderstood him. Your subconscious keeps your external sphincter closed. Like I said you have to consciously open it to urinate. It would be impossible to consciously keep it open enough for it to atrophy. You’re simply wrong. I’m presenting facts, not opinion.
As mentioned, your heart is ALWAYS working. But you did touch almost get it right. If you don't ever work out and stress your heart just enough then over time it too will get weaker. And yes, eventually you would die from a weak heart. Look it up for yourself, this does happen, and is in fact happening to my own mother right now.

And yes, it IS possible to train your external sphincter to remain open all the time (or at least not always closed). This is how we start out as babies, and only through the mental conditioning of potty training do we learn to keep it reflexively closed. Because we have full conscious control of our external sphincter.

You are also wrong, it is our internal (or bladder neck) sphincter which we have no conscious control over. That doesn't mean it isn't being controlled though. IF the external sphincter is always open, our subconscious minds will slowly learn there is no need to hold the internal sphincter closed as often. And yes, that means with time it too will beging to atrophy. Come on now, this is simple biology. You should be able to understand this stuff.
 
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Slomo

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I hate to say it folks but diaper training or not. I am finding this topic to be borderline wrong. Especially for those who are truly suffering from incontinence. I say if you want it go for it ,but there are many reasons for true incontinence. Argue over it all you want there are many people who would trade that one moment in life which caused their problems. Sorry for the rant thanks for letting me put my 2 cents worth .
Uh, hello... I AM legitimately physically and fully, funtionally, urinary incontinent. So yeah, I know what it's like. And the WHOLE point of this post is to point out to those who are unintentionally diaper training themselves that they are likely going to become incontinent. And yes, as I said, anyone finding themselves becoming incontinent needs to stop and think if this is really what they want. Why you may ask, because like you said it CAN lead to suffering. Sort of like "the grass is always greener on the other side untill you get there". What about this warning of mine make this topic borderline wrong???
 
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