Realizing I did nothing wrong

[hbic60]

I will never understand why any AB or DL needs any -more or less complicated - justification to wear and use diapers. It‘s not forbidden in any way by any law, you can buy diapers freely everywhere in shops or online, without having to give any justification, no age restriction, so if someone wants to wear diapers just do it and have fun!!!
No reason to ask and trying to clarify and discuss in IC forum if there is a mentally or physically dependency seen or not…

 

[enthusi]

@Edgewater I said I clearly regret posting on this forum, and trust me I will not be back. This has been a miserable experience for me and I deeply regret coming here in the first place. What else do you want from me?????

 

[LePew]

i just want to point out enthusi that I’ve never had a negative experience posting to the IC forum, ever.
But I didn’t make a post about reinventing myself as IC in my mind.

I think this is a good time to reflect on the nature of your post and why it caused some blowback rather than complain about the negative reception you’ve had. Perhaps do some retrospective thinking instead of blaming others.

 

[enthusi]

i just want to point out enthusi that I’ve never had a negative experience posting to the IC forum, ever.
But I didn’t make a post about reinventing myself as IC in my mind.

I think this is a good time to reflect on the nature of your post and why it caused some blowback rather than complain about the negative reception you’ve had. Perhaps do some retrospective thinking instead of blaming others.

Point taken. Really I’m glad your experience posting on the incontinence forum has been good. Maybe it’s me. Maybe it’s not. Either way these forums seem to be the perfect place for you.

 

[60something]

Something maybe I can add. LePew brings up a lot of valid points. Very logical and straight forward. I found myself agreeing with his post. Then my little devil in my brain starts dissecting things. Wouldn't it be nice if there's only one answer? Many times there isn't. It depends on you're perspective. Lepew mentioned he reached the point of functional incontinence, realized it and backed away. Well done Lepew! But suppose we start with an individual that isn't so clear and logical in their thinking?
I was diagnosed bipolar years ago and categorically agree with the OP. As well as LePew. I've been condemned with an unusual (therefor wrong) thought process. To me, are all Gods of our reality. The single, only TRUE viewpoint for each of US is what WE think. This is what we experience. ....."I" think, therefore "I" am.... But only for ourselves. Unfortunately, these personal universes merge, collide, pass harmlessly, etc with the 7.5 billion other realities around us.
I experienced the same internal dialogue as the OP describes. I'm old enough that I have prostate issues and struggle with dry pants. I can stay dry. But the toll of fighting my AB tendencies along with physical bodily demands created a very conflicting reality.
How strong are you? How long do you fight this internal battle? What are the consequences of fighting this internal battle on our "soul"? Eventually we come to a consensus in or mind/ reality. It's valid for us. It has become reality. From the outside in another person's mind, the said person is wrong. Even very wrong.
In the "tribe" we call society, this individual is effectively "voted out". Possibly good for the "tribe", but catastrophic for our OP. We rarely question the convictions of "The Tribe". But it can be, and indeed is as flawed as the convicted individual. Just as our own personal universes are.
So, who is right? Our OP or LePew? Actually, both are right. Both are also wrong. We personally are judge, jury and executioner. When you are a God of your universe you carry a heavy burden. The responsibility is literally life and death to who we are. We need to be very careful when we pass judgement on each other's universe. Some of us reign over a very fragile reality.
Maybe this is the point where the "The Tribe" vaguely senses the One GOD. The basis of all religions. Terribly distorted by tribal beliefs. The TRUE reality, if there is one, might be that elusive thing we call LOVE. .....love IS the answer...... We badly need to recognize we are ALL wounded and all need help.

When I was a little boy, I prayed to God every night. God? Why am I here?...... I received only silence, always silence. Nothing..... Then one night I prayed like every other night, God, why am I here? Again? Silence... I laid in my bed pondering the silence when suddenly, frighteningly, a voice from nowhere, deep, wise and yet kind spoke. "You are here to bear witness"..... nothing more, nothing less. I hear that voice yet today. We all bear witness. Are we the eyes of God? If we are, what is God seeing? In my personal universe I want God to see my struggles, joys, questions and come to the conclusion as humankind evolves it finally concludes that Love is the answer. ....and it was good...

 

[Eclectic]

Thank you!! That’s what I’ve been trying to say! It’s not just me who gets turned off by this forum.

No problem. Just to clarify. I have been very irritated at past posts on here that have been disrespectful to IC folk. But, your post was not all that bad.

I do not think you can become IC simply by wearing diapers. Mentally conditioned to use diapers, yes, but not IC. I would end by repeating the mantra in this part of ADISC. If you are experiencing IC, you should have a doctor investigate it.

 

[enthusi]

Something maybe I can add. LePew brings up a lot of valid points. Very logical and straight forward. I found myself agreeing with his post. Then my little devil in my brain starts dissecting things. Wouldn't it be nice if there's only one answer? Many times there isn't. It depends on you're perspective. Lepew mentioned he reached the point of functional incontinence, realized it and backed away. Well done Lepew! But suppose we start with an individual that isn't so clear and logical in their thinking?
I was diagnosed bipolar years ago and categorically agree with the OP. As well as LePew. I've been condemned with an unusual (therefor wrong) thought process. To me, are all Gods of our reality. The single, only TRUE viewpoint for each of US is what WE think. This is what we experience. ....."I" think, therefore "I" am.... But only for ourselves. Unfortunately, these personal universes merge, collide, pass harmlessly, etc with the 7.5 billion other realities around us.
I experienced the same internal dialogue as the OP describes. I'm old enough that I have prostate issues and struggle with dry pants. I can stay dry. But the toll of fighting my AB tendencies along with physical bodily demands created a very conflicting reality.
How strong are you? How long do you fight this internal battle? What are the consequences of fighting this internal battle on our "soul"? Eventually we come to a consensus in or mind/ reality. It's valid for us. It has become reality. From the outside in another person's mind, the said person is wrong. Even very wrong.
In the "tribe" we call society, this individual is effectively "voted out". Possibly good for the "tribe", but catastrophic for our OP. We rarely question the convictions of "The Tribe". But it can be, and indeed is as flawed as the convicted individual. Just as our own personal universes are.
So, who is right? Our OP or LePew? Actually, both are right. Both are also wrong. We personally are judge, jury and executioner. When you are a God of your universe you carry a heavy burden. The responsibility is literally life and death to who we are. We need to be very careful when we pass judgement on each other's universe. Some of us reign over a very fragile reality.
Maybe this is the point where the "The Tribe" vaguely senses the One GOD. The basis of all religions. Terribly distorted by tribal beliefs. The TRUE reality, if there is one, might be that elusive thing we call LOVE. .....love IS the answer...... We badly need to recognize we are ALL wounded and all need help.

When I was a little boy, I prayed to God every night. God? Why am I here?...... I received only silence, always silence. Nothing..... Then one night I prayed like every other night, God, why am I here? Again? Silence... I laid in my bed pondering the silence when suddenly, frighteningly, a voice from nowhere, deep, wise and yet kind spoke. "You are here to bear witness"..... nothing more, nothing less. I hear that voice yet today. We all bear witness. Are we the eyes of God? If we are, what is God seeing? In my personal universe I want God to see my struggles, joys, questions and come to the conclusion as humankind evolves it finally concludes that Love is the answer. ....and it was good...

This is a beautiful response.

For what it’s worth I promise I didn’t mean to offend anyone or minimize or trivialize other’s struggle with incontinence. But I also am quite annoyed how everyone has no problem invalidating or trivializing my journey. My intention was to help others like themselves better. And nobody noticed that because they were so busy trying to make me feel bad for posting here.

Again maybe I stepped on some toes, or was too callous. Doesn’t really matter. I have repeatedly said I was wrong to have posted here and people are still piling on me. So I’ve come to the conclusion this forum is not the positive affirming placing I was hoping for.

 

[PadPhilosopher]

This is a beautiful response.

For what it’s worth I promise I didn’t mean to offend anyone or minimize or trivialize other’s struggle with incontinence. But I also am quite annoyed how everyone has no problem invalidating or trivializing my journey. My intention was to help others like themselves better. And nobody noticed that because they were so busy trying to make me feel bad for posting here.

Again maybe I stepped on some toes, or was too callous. Doesn’t really matter. I have repeatedly said I was wrong to have posted here and people are still piling on me. So I’ve come to the conclusion this forum is not the positive affirming placing I was hoping for.

I agree that posting what you posted here was a mistake, but an honest one, with no intention or notion of causing anyone to be upset. Your themes of self acceptance are wonderfully thoughtful, but stepped on toes because, due to stigmatization, which is the answer to the mystery @hbic60 raised, leads many, but not all, to a place of self-loathing, or perhaps self body shaming, which causes a strong reaction against those who do not share it. It was accidentally insensitive to their experience, and I learned this myself when I tried to be similarly supportive in the IC forum years ago. I learned, and have since made friends with some of the people I upset--good and kind people, to whom I was accidentally insensitive, but we worked out the misunderstanding over time. @60something said it very well.

I'm sorry the experience was hurtful to you, but nothing is ever a complete loss if we learn from it, and I think you have.

 

[greatlake5]

I have to say posting on this forum has turned out to be a big mistake

Posting here on the IC forum is fine. We have all types of posters. From IC members to ABDLer's. Everyone is welcome. As long you're posting IC issues and not pretending.

 

[enthusi]

@greatlake5 thank you! For what it’s worth my bladder control is wrecked. That’s partly why I’m crushed about how people are treating me here. There are even people replying here who don’t have incontinence at all telling me I’m wrong to post here. It’s like hello! I am incontinent regardless of the cause so stop telling me I don’t belong here.

My question is how the heck do I prove it? Doctors notes? Observations from my spouse? How about a note from my therapist describing the time I accidentally leaked on the therapy couch without realizing it til I stood up? What about the laundry? What about the time last summer when I had severe fungal rash and I was forced to use a catheter for a few days because I couldn’t wear diapers and had no choice.

Side note I never have this sort of issue when I go to my urologist, or primary care doc. It turns out the medical community’s definition of incontinence is vastly different than what I see on this forum. Incontinence is a symptom and a non specific one at that.

Now can you see my frustration?

 

[PadPhilosopher]

@greatlake5 thank you! For what it’s worth my bladder control is wrecked. That’s partly why I’m crushed about how people are treating me here. There are even people replying here who don’t have incontinence at all telling me I’m wrong to post here. It’s like hello! I am incontinent regardless of the cause so stop telling me I don’t belong here.

My question is how the heck do I prove it? Doctors notes? Observations from my spouse? How about a note from my therapist describing the time I accidentally leaked on the therapy couch without realizing it til I stood up? What about the laundry? What about the time last summer when I had severe fungal rash and I was forced to use a catheter for a few days because I couldn’t wear diapers and had no choice.

Side note I never have this sort of issue when I go to my urologist, or primary care doc. It turns out the medical community’s definition of incontinence is vastly different than what I see on this forum. Incontinence is a symptom and a non specific one at that.

Now can you see my frustration?

The medical community definition is the one that rules here, and it can be frustrating for those who are functionally incontinent, but not considered medically incontinent.

No one is asking you to prove anything, but I think what you just revealed will make some of your detractors more sympathetic.

 

[greatlake5]

those who are functionally incontinent

Functionally incontinent means someone who can't get to or use a toilet. Often when someone can't walk (for when they need to).

 

[Teddy02]

This is a beautiful response.

For what it’s worth I promise I didn’t mean to offend anyone or minimize or trivialize other’s struggle with incontinence. But I also am quite annoyed how everyone has no problem invalidating or trivializing my journey. My intention was to help others like themselves better. And nobody noticed that because they were so busy trying to make me feel bad for posting here.

Again maybe I stepped on some toes, or was too callous. Doesn’t really matter. I have repeatedly said I was wrong to have posted here and people are still piling on me. So I’ve come to the conclusion this forum is not the positive affirming placing I was hoping for.

You should not feel bad about what you wrote. We all express ourselves differently and I have a lot of sympathy for your plight. I am now 74, incontinent, but have struggled every day with also being ABDL. A long term bedwetter in my youth with distant parents who were not concerned was probably the root cause. The AB slid away a while ago leaving only a small residue, but I still battle with the DL bit, and I am legitimately incontinent from having my prostate removed. I have always (almost) wanted to be in nappies but after my operation could I have found continence again? I don’t know as I was comfortable in the nappies, the surgeon said that there was a chance that I would always be incontinent.
Yes, it all adds up to internal conflict, and I think that is what is going on in many ABDL minds young and old. Wearing nappies is not evil, illegal or bad. Many have written on this forum very eloquently and continue to do so, they have helped shape my own views and opinions and given me the assurances that I so craved in my youth.

 

[mirrored22]

I would highly recommend seeing if you can get definitive answers! If you haven't gotten any advanced types of diagnostics done like a urodynamics test or anything like that, it can give you real answers and ease some of your anxieties, uncertainty and shame around this issue. I had a bit of a similar journey where I wore diapers "for pleasure" but had frequent urinary issues that I denied or downplayed because of the that interest. Seeing a doctor and getting a full understanding of what was really going on with my body helped me understand my body better and helped me reframe how I've treated this problem (and diapers as a result) in a more healthy way. It may give you more authority to really speak your truth and clear out any distortions, and more confidence behind your feelings too.

i think a lot of ABs end up actually being incontinent to a degree without realizing it and find themselves drawn to the safety and security of being an AB because of their bladder/bowel issues. of course that's not why all of us do it but i think a lot of people deal with both and don't realize it!

@PaddedPonyboy I agree with this. I haven't researched it much, but I have a hunch that many people with strong desires towards this may have some kind of pre-existing pelvic floor dysfunction (or bathroom related trauma) that draws them in. There is a lot of shame tied up with bathroom issues and incontinence problems go untreated and undiagnosed for a long time as a result of this shame! But that makes it all the more important that these folks see a doctor and try to get the help or some of the answers they need. It'll help clear up the distortions and give you solid ground to stand on. The more of us who speak up and get treatment, especially for us who are much younger than your textbook patient, the better all of our incontinence care can become. I've found this forum very helpful for understanding my own symptoms and being able to see other users experiences with problems that

 

[mayhem]

However I ‘made myself incontinent’

That is basically impossible. Your external sphincter is controlled by your subconscious until you decide it's time to relieve yourself. That said, incontinence is a symptom of a condition and not the condition itself.

 

[enthusi]

That is basically impossible.

@mayhem and others, I’m starting to realize we aren’t talking about the same thing, or at least the phrasing I’m accustomed to using doesn’t make sense in this context.

When I say “I made myself incontinent” I’m NOT talking just wearing diapers and seeing what happens. I agree that won’t work.

I’m talking about a rigorous regimen of years of intensive cognitive and behavioral techniques to undermine the set of conditioned responses to the micturation reflexe (aka “toilet training”). I’ve spent thousands of dollars on profesional private hypnosis, and countless hours learning about how to relax the muscles, guided imagery, physical exercises to reset the external sphincter back to its relaxed factory setting.

I don’t expect most people to get it and that’s okay. But I hate hate hate the feeling of bladder pressure in a way that is unusual even for ABDLs and I did what I could behaviorally so I don’t have to deal with bladder fullness or be burdened with continence. It feels right to me. Thats all there’s to say.

And a final note… I decided I really don’t want to get into any more discussions about whether or not it’s possible to make oneself incontinent. I am of the firm opinion it IS possible, though it requires a level of commitment that is far above and beyond what most (nearly all) ABDLs are comfortable with. You don’t have to believe me. Either way, I still wouldn’t trust myself to be in public without a diaper on.

 

[LePew]

When I say “I made myself incontinent” I’m NOT talking just wearing diapers and seeing what happens. I agree that won’t work.

I’m talking about a rigorous regimen of years of intensive cognitive and behavioral techniques to undermine the set of conditioned responses to the micturation reflexe (aka “toilet training”). I’ve spent thousands of dollars on profesional private hypnosis, and countless hours learning about how to relax the muscles, guided imagery, physical exercises to reset the external sphincter back to its relaxed factory setting.

^ you made yourself IC on purpose and are “shocked” by the backlash your post has in the IC forum?

I can hardly believe anyone can be so ignorant to make such posts in the IC section and expect a positive outcome. It’s like you were farming for negative reactions, like cyber exhibitionism. And acting shocked and chagrined upon receiving it.

Real piece of work this was.

 

[enthusi]

^ you made yourself IC on purpose and are “shocked” by the backlash your post has in the IC forum?

I can hardly believe anyone can be so ignorant to make such posts in the IC section and expect a positive outcome. It’s like you were farming for negative reactions, like cyber exhibitionism. And acting shocked and chagrined upon receiving it.

Real piece of work this was.

I’m gonna kindly ask you to stop replying to me in this forum. If you continue I will report you.

I don’t think you’re acting respectfully towards me, and I won’t tolerate it any longer.