Joining the Military

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LittleJess

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I'm thinking of joining the military, but I'm a unfit sack of shit. :D

I'm not underweight though, just unfit.. I don't know if it's possible.

(oh as a ICT person) not as a solider or anything.

(oh I hearing hearing impairment, well I guess thats not possible than lol)
 

dogboy

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Yeah, usually having any sort of impairment disqualifies one for military service. I was missing an inch from my leg due to getting hit by a car when I was 14 and that made me unfit for the draft in 1970.
 
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littlelodgewrecker

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Yeah, usually having any sort of impairment disqualifies one for military service. I was missing an inch from my leg due to getting hit by a car when I was 14 and that made me unfit for the draft in 1970.

at lest in the 60's and 70's when you and i were young, the physical stress of daily play kept all of us pretty damn fit (even with your missing inch). as much time as my contemporaries and i spent sitting on our asses or in our racks on the boats, the physical training requirements were till way more stringent back then than they put the ground-ponders through today. and they let submariners off easy in those days.

maybe they need a law to limit electronic toy and media exposure to age 18 and up as we do smoking, or even older as in the case of drinking. this so we can get the next generation back out in the parks and on the play grounds thus decreasing health problems and increasing fitness, independence and self confidence.

as for joining the military;
even in the US Navy in the 70's we had a thing called marching-parties that were held after lights-out. they were designed as the first level of motivation for sailors who had breached any rule or who were not otherwise shaping up. they were held during a sailors normal sleeping time to make the experience even more distasteful. the Navy didn't give-up on a person until that person proved to be totally incorrigible.

the military is a good place for those motivated folks who want to measure-up even if they never had a chance to do so before. it's not a place for the un-motivated unless said person likes pain.
 

BoundCoder

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maybe they need a law to limit electronic toy and media exposure to age 18 and up as we do smoking, or even older as in the case of drinking. this so we can get the next generation back out in the parks and on the play grounds thus decreasing health problems and increasing fitness, independence and self confidence.

With all the news about said fitness and health problems over the last decade, the current generation of parents (at least all the ones I know) seem to be making a serious effort to get their kids eating right and out doing sports. We had a generation that didn't care combined with an availability of poor choices, but I honestly think that problem is correcting itself as the results of that have become apparent to the current generation.
 
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Maxx

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Yeah, usually having any sort of impairment disqualifies one for military service. I was missing an inch from my leg due to getting hit by a car when I was 14 and that made me unfit for the draft in 1970.

Not a bad time to be 4F. I rolled the dice and didn't take a student deferment, then just got lucky with a high lottery number.
 

Traemo

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It's might be possible to get a waiver for the hearing, depending on how bad it is. Most everyone I know who was every Active Duty (and this isn't a small number) has some degree of acquired hearing loss, mostly because of how noisy it gets on ships/aircraft/around heavy machinery. Also, don't lie to the recruiter or on any of your forms - when they find out you'll be in heaps of legal trouble.
 

Aidy

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As an ICT person you still need to complete basic training. You don't have to be that fit for it but there is still a risk you will be injured due to the hazardous nature of it. It will be very easy to get to the fitness level needed for basic training. 7.5 on the beep test will be easily possible with only a little training. Other than that do 3x sets of 20 pushups every second day (or 10.. whatever you can do) and 3x 20 sit ups. Don't get overly fit because you'll lose most of the fitness in basic training as a lot of it is classroom work.

Most serving soldiers have hearing loss so shouldn't be an issue unless it is serious.

That answers your fitness question. Now.... for the rant.


Shy, I live with two Australian ex-soldiers. DO NOT PROTECT OUR DISGUSTING COUNTRY. Before my brother and my best friend joined the army I was very patriotic. Now, if China invaded, I'd help them off the boats and my brother, an Afghan vet, will be making the cups of tea and shaking their hand. I am so disgusted by both our government and our people that I live on a property and hope to cut myself off from having to rely on my government ever. (While I do this I do my best to improve my country by volunteering and helping the people who our country forgets) My brother and my best friend live on the property with me. My brother would love to see the Australian people have to deal with war just because they are so selfish and entitled. His favourite quote by activist Julian Burnside - "It is both a blessing and a curse that Australian has never known war." He likes the curse bit more.

In short, they both hate our country.

Let me give you the run down on how you will be treated once you finish your service.

During your service you might well enjoy yourself unless you are susceptible to bullying. (If you were bullied in high school you'll probably be bullied in the army... the army is often like high school). My friend and my brother both enjoyed their training, the people they were with and my brother wants to go back to Afghan. He loved combat, he loved the medical side of his work and he loved the people he was in. They were both riflemen and my brother was recommended for commando selection but he decided not to make the attempt as he had a new baby and knew he would never see her if he went SF.

The army will treat you pretty good if you pull your weight.... but then you leave the army... and Australia takes a big steaming dump on you then makes you eat it. During training my friend fell off a small cliff while carrying too much weight. He shattered both his ankles and was ordered to keep going because it was simulated combat so if you're injured you have to keep fighting. He took three steps and his tendons frayed (not snapped). He was in rehabilitation platoon for two years and was basically tortured and bullied. They assume anyone who is injured is a 'linger' (malingerer-faking it to get out of work) and treat them accordingly. He went through 5 surgeries and was finally told they were irreparable and he was crippled for life. This is the point where Australia's ANZAC spirit kicks in... You know... Respecting our soldiers, helping them and stuff... But it doesn't.

What actually happens is he got a medical discharge and then he applied for his compensation and pension. The Australian army pension, done through CommSuper, works this way. If you can't do a job you were trained to do when you leave the army you get a pension. If you are 30% less likely to get that job because of your injury you get a category B pension (50% of your army job wage with promotions over the years) and if you are 60% unable to do your previous jobs or more you get category A (full army job wages for life or until they can fix the injury). What did my mate get? Dick.. that's what. He can't walk yet the assessment came back and he was told he could be a prison guard, construction worker, clerk (he's never worked in the office except he filed paper for 2 weeks in the army), cabinet maker, miner worker. He was given Category C (no pension).

This was 4 years ago. So far he's managed to fight it up to Category B so he's now on $400 a week which, with rent in Perth being $350, is impossible to live on. He can't access Centrelink while on this part pension because CommSuper and the Department of Veteran's Affairs suck. So he now lives with me because otherwise he'd be homeless. We are currently taking the Australian Government to court. We tried a mediation where both side's lawyers met to discuss the evidence and try to resolve it out of court. What did the Australian Government bring to the table? No evidence. Threats. "Scott should settle for category B. We have multiple appeals and this may take many more years." Basically, they threatened to drag it out as long as possible and they don't have any evidence. They know they can't win but they know they can delay it so long that Scott can't afford it. This is where most people give up. It's a dark joke among the military that DVA and CommSupers motto is "Delay, deny, until they die." Basically, CommSuper want him to give up or kill himself. Most people do either of them because they can't afford to fight. If he wasn't living with me for free he would have had to give up and would probably be dead thanks to the amazing country Australia. They play the numbers game. They know the majority will fold so the Australian tax payers save money if they torture soldiers. If he wins, he automatically loses most of his compensation to the lawyers. He's had to fight for something that is legally his and as a result he won't get most of his DVA pay out.

What's also disgusting is the corruption. Scott's private surgeon, who also is the West Coast Eagles ankle surgeon with 25 years experience said in his report. "While the surgery successfully attached the tendons back onto the bone this is the worst ankle injury I have ever operated on. The tendons haven't snapped. They've frayed. It will never heal and I recommend Scott not do any employment where he has to stand."
What did CommSuper pull from that in their report? "The surgery was successful." What did the CommSuper doctors say when they looked at his ankle? "Scott is partially inhibited by his ankles and may work in construction if he is allowed to sit down every two hours."
Scott also saw 2x psychiatrists. One paid for by the Australian government and then an independent one. The first one said to his face that he had major depression then wrote in the report that Scott had "adjustment disorder." They said he didn't have depression because he enjoyed writing. The whole report read like a joke. His second psychiatrist turned out to be a veteran of the first Gulf War and swore his head off after reading the report. He said in his report, "Scott does NOT (he capitalised it) have adjustment disorder as adjustment disorder is only classified thus up until the 6 month mark. It CANNOT be adjustment disorder if it last more than 6 months." He said to Scott, If enjoying one thing means you don't have depression we both better head out the back and off ourselves. (The psychiatrist was amazing and really knew how to speak to other veterans...)
It is commonly known among the military that you pay for independent evaluation and never trust the DVA or CommSuper doctors. They get paid by DVA and CommSuper so aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them

My brother injured his elbow to the point where he can't be a sparky any more. (He was an electrician before the army) He applied for compensation through DVA but not a pension. The DVA doctor said to his face (because my brother is a scary looking guy and you don't tell a Afghan vet he's a liar to his face), "This is definitely permanent nerve damage." What he said in his report to DVA, "The pain is all in Mark's head." Basically, he's faking it. My brother fakes it so much he nearly dropped his baby when his arm spasmed from random pain and if he does 30 push ups it becomes inflamed. The DVA doctor outright lied in his report.

What's funny is you aren't allowed to record any meetings you have with DVA or CommSuper. If you ask to record they refuse to do the meeting. They are allowed to record the meeting though.

4 years we've been fighting the Australian government so my friend can get on with his life. He is now addicted to pain medication due to the pain of his injury and the depression caused by CommSuper and DVA. He sits in his room on his computer and leaves to buy a coffee each day and that's his entire life because he can't move on until it's resolved.

While many people are outraged by this there is a group of people we've talked to who have said, "They signed up and knew what could happen. They can't complain." (From people who never served and don't have anyone in the armed forces)

My brother and all the men he served with refuse to march on ANZAC Day. When in the army their battalion had to be ordered to march because they wouldn't voluntarily.

The Australian government loves to remember ww1 and ww2 veterans. $400million was spent on ww1 centenary. That's 2x more than the UK spent. You will be remembered if you die, but you will get nothing if you live. (Unless you die by your own hand of course. More Australian soldiers have suicided than were lost in combat. You are 8x more likely to die by suicide than the general population.. especially if you are in the support battalions)

Oh.. and this will happen to you. Don't think you won't get a physical or mental injury. Injury in the army is the rule, not the exception. Rehab platoons are always overpopulated. And unless you are wounded in combat you won't get helped. (More Australians are wounded or injured in training then in combat) And as ICT aka, support, it will be worse for you if you get injured. Mental injuries occur more in support than in any combat rolls including in special forces who see more combat than everyone else put together. People often think people in combat are the ones who get PTSD but it is more prevalent in the rear services. Turns out it isn't seeing horrible things that influences PTSD but more the feeling of helplessness. Support personnel often feel they can't help their comrades which leads to mental health issues.

The Australian government has spent more on advertising for the defence force this year than in any time in Australian history. Ask yourself.. why is this? Australian soldiers are resigning in hoards and they are desperately trying to fill the ranks again. Why would you join a service that people who know it are leaving?

If you have to join, join the air force. They have a lower rate of injuries, are generally happier and are treated better by their officers. Not as exciting but you won't have your life screwed by injury.

Do not join the Australian military. The Australian people do not deserve your service until they have helped the tens of thousands of soldiers who came before you. I'd take it as a personal favour if you don't replace my brother in the ranks. The only way change will happen for our soldiers is if young people stop joining. Soldiers cannot strike. They cannot complain. They have no union or right to protest. The only protest is for people to refuse to join the army or by veterans who are out of the army causing a stink.

And if you decide to become an officer just remember, Australian officers are by and large... jokes. 2 very respected Australian generals, General Jim Molan (Chief of Operation for the Multi National Forces in Iraq, recipient of the Distinguished Service Cross by Australia and the Legion of Merit by the US government) and General John Cantwell (Director of Strategic Operations of the Multi National Forces - Iraq) both speak down on our officer training. My brother only knew 3 good officers in his army career... and they were all from the UK. Do not become an officer unless you think you are great and that rank and file are there to forward your own career. Diggers do not respect officers.
 

dogboy

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With all the news about said fitness and health problems over the last decade, the current generation of parents (at least all the ones I know) seem to be making a serious effort to get their kids eating right and out doing sports. We had a generation that didn't care combined with an availability of poor choices, but I honestly think that problem is correcting itself as the results of that have become apparent to the current generation.

Ironically, I pulled a high draft number so it didn't become an issue. Like Littlelodgewrecker said, I was actually in much better shape than probably a lot of the guys who got drafted. Even with my slightly shorter leg, I had worked out with my best friend in high school who was a starting linebacker on the high school football team. I was benching 200 lbs and weirder, curling 200.

Every day after school, we played some sort of sports, either at school or outside. I rode my bike everywhere. It wasn't unusual for me to put in 50 miles on my bike on a Saturday. I suppose kids today do the equivalent with their thumbs...haha.
 

dogboy

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Oh wow! My cousin used to actually do that to us when we were little kids, except he'd throw his hunting knife at our bare feet in the summer. We were forced to stand and not move. One day he missed and threw his knife right into the foot of one of my cousins.
 

Reaper

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I was medically separated from the Marine Corps and I know its a very stringent bottleneck to squeeze through. All DoD standards pretty much universally apply to all branches these days. What branch are you considering?
 
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