ClickyKeys
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I was wondering who their supplier was because the other day I noticed that the ABU Simple and the Bambino Bianco are literally the same exact diaper.
bambinod said:It's somewhat disappointing but not really surprising to see China having no respect for IP.
Netdiaper may be thinking "well if I can buy it from china then it must be OK for me to sell it here!", and no, that's not how it works. Not if the diaper design was ABU's IP which was sold. On the other hand, it's possible that this diaper manufacturer in china actually owns the IP. In that case, they can sell to whomever they want to, and those retailers can go on to sell it to anyone they want to.
So we need to clear up whose IP this actually is. I'd bet that there's additional cost in making something like that your own IP, since it requires graphics artists, product design testing, paying legal, licensing, and filing fees, and in the end will limit the manufacturer from selling to other parties. I also recall reading that diapers are treated similar to medications by the FDA and require some testing for product safety. If ABU took the cheaper route of having them design it and retain IP rights, the new ABU may have no authority to control sales here.
ClickyKeys said:I was wondering who their supplier was because the other day I noticed that the ABU Simple and the Bambino Bianco are literally the same exact diaper.
babyboy said:I have a friend that owns a restaurant, people complain the prices are "too high" it is a medium price place, and to make ends meat he still has to live with his parents, this place has been in his family for 4 generations, and it is busy, but the margins are razor thin, and probably the same for diaper companies.
bambinod said:It's somewhat disappointing but not really surprising to see China having no respect for IP.
ClickyKeys said:I was wondering who their supplier was because the other day I noticed that the ABU Simple and the Bambino Bianco are literally the same exact diaper.
AnalogRTO said:With that said, I'm certain I could buy nearly anything from China that is either manufactured there or a direct copy of something from here.
Trevor said:Classico, Bianco, and Teddy, while having impressive capacity are all described by review and company information to have lower capacity than ABU's Space/Simple/LittlePawz.
Argent said:Never as simple as just pressing a few buttons on Alibaba as if it's eBay when dealing with Chinese manufacturers.
goten said:While true, in this case, I think Panda are the rightful owners. It's their diapers, their machines. All they do is print the picture you ask for and put the amount of SAP you ask for in there.
This would be like if you went to Kinkos and asked them to print out a poster with a picture of a cat on it. Then someone else goes in there with the same picture and asks for a poster as well. Kinkos doesn't know or care who owns the cat picture. And in the case of SDKs, it's Pampers that owns that image.
I still find netdiapers.com sleazy, don't get me wrong. ABU may have a legal claim against netdiapers, but I'd be careful of attracting whoever owns Pampers (P&G?) attention.
Correct, the only difference is ABU asked for more SAP in the Simples. Bambino asked for less SAP in the Biancos.
To me, that extra sap makes a big difference. But I got my Biancos for $1.20 each on the last sale. Whereas my Simples set me back $1.95 each. The price difference to these two companies was probably 10 cents per diaper. Again I support these guys and what they're doing, but I'm not going to pretend they're my friends and just trying to help me out and be fair. They're in this to make a profit, and the only way you make the most profits is by charging as high above your overhead costs as the market will allow. So I'm not gonna be naive about what's going on here.
My point was, ABU and Bambino are buying from China, too. These are not clone copycat IP ripoff diapers. They're the real deal. ABU and Bambinos went to the Chinese Kinkos of diapers. And netdiapers.com just did the same thing. I bring this up simply to tell you guys how they did it.
SAP content is customizable on your order. ABU asked for more. Likewise you can request no print, tape panel print, or full diaper print. It's China. If the price is right, they'll customize things however much they can for you.
Nope, it's a huge risk! The entire batch could be bad with pinhole leaks, or misprinted tapes. Remember Bambino's "whoops! upside down" sale? They printed an entire batch of orders with the tape panel upside down.
If you don't get your order, or it ends up defective, you're pretty much out of luck with China. That's part of the value that goes into buying from ABU and Bambino too: insurance.
goten said:Hi Casey, thank you for your insight!
I'm sorry that my speculation was wrong. Regrettably, companies aren't going to want to share their manufacturing sources or their profit margins and overhead as that could benefit their competitors. We have no choice but to guess. And sometimes we guess wrong. I appreciate that you've at least confirmed that you're not using Weifang Panda. Not that anyone here was about to buy 20000 diapers off a Chinese website, hahahah
As for the analogy, there really is an explosion of growth in the AB/DL market. I was stunned when we had one serious company, now we have Classy Comfort, Aww So Cute, Bambino (Magnifico, Bellisimo, Teddy, Classico, Bianco), AB Universe (Space, Lavender, LittlePawz, Simple, Cushies, Super Dry Kids, etc), Buntewindel/Fabine (Exclusive), Rearz (Safari, Princess, Seduction, Spoiled), Snuggies/Tykables (Waddler), BareBum, Crinklz, Cuddlz, MyDiaper (Night Animal, Night), Dotty Diaper Company (Pink Dotty the Pony), Sexy Adult Diaper (despite the name, they're AB themed), Diappizz (they stole your Cushies design but added two tapes per side), NetDiapers (another one stealing your SDK design), etcetcetc!
I'm sure you're aware of all of these companies and more, given it's your business. I'm sorry to be confrontational, but when you tell me it's not that simple, I don't really believe it. I think anyone with $25000 in capital can probably get a shipment of diapers printed how they want. I trust you spend more than that, are taking trips out to China to speak with your suppliers and customize, etc.
I got the company wrong. But at the end of the day, we all know all of these are being made by Chinese companies to customer (eg you) specifications. And that's okay! I love your company, and I've bought at least ten cases of product from you! You have superseded the quality of Bambino and matched their price, and so far you've maintained the same quality in every batch, so you are my first stop supplier right now! Keep up the good work guys!
goten said:Hi Casey, thank you for your insight!
I'm sorry that my speculation was wrong. Regrettably, companies aren't going to want to share their manufacturing sources or their profit margins and overhead as that could benefit their competitors. We have no choice but to guess. And sometimes we guess wrong. I appreciate that you've at least confirmed that you're not using Weifang Panda. Not that anyone here was about to buy 20000 diapers off a Chinese website, hahahah
As for the analogy, there really is an explosion of growth in the AB/DL market. I was stunned when we had one serious company, now we have Classy Comfort, Aww So Cute, Bambino (Magnifico, Bellisimo, Teddy, Classico, Bianco), AB Universe (Space, Lavender, LittlePawz, Simple, Cushies, Super Dry Kids, etc), Buntewindel/Fabine (Exclusive), Rearz (Safari, Princess, Seduction, Spoiled), Snuggies/Tykables (Waddler), BareBum, Crinklz, Cuddlz, MyDiaper (Night Animal, Night), Dotty Diaper Company (Pink Dotty the Pony), Sexy Adult Diaper (despite the name, they're AB themed), Diappizz (they stole your Cushies design but added two tapes per side), NetDiapers (another one stealing your SDK design), etcetcetc!
I'm sure you're aware of all of these companies and more, given it's your business. I'm sorry to be confrontational, but when you tell me it's not that simple, I don't really believe it. I think anyone with $25000 in capital can probably get a shipment of diapers printed how they want. I trust you spend more than that, are taking trips out to China to speak with your suppliers and customize, etc.
I got the company wrong. But at the end of the day, we all know all of these are being made by Chinese companies to customer (eg you) specifications. And that's okay! I love your company, and I've bought at least ten cases of product from you! You have superseded the quality of Bambino and matched their price, and so far you've maintained the same quality in every batch, so you are my first stop supplier right now! Keep up the good work guys!
ClickyKeys said:I was wondering who their supplier was because the other day I noticed that the ABU Simple and the Bambino Bianco are literally the same exact diaper.
Hoorf said:Did anyone else get this notice?
"A Message from Casey Strom, CEO of ABUniverse:
"We were able to reach an agreement favorable to both parties without the need to go to court."
Hopefully the entire debacle's over with. Hopefully.
Hoorf said:Did anyone else get this notice?
"A Message from Casey Strom, CEO of ABUniverse:
"I wanted to take a moment to update you on the recent progress we’ve made regarding our negotiations with NetDiapers.com.
"Today, August 17th 2016 at 4pm Pacific, we reached a settlement that protects the intellectual property and identity of ABUniverse, and does not stop NetDiapers.com from operating.
"The Super Dry Kids™ brand remains completely and wholly owned by ABUniverse, as do all of our other brand names.
"We were able to reach an agreement favorable to both parties without the need to go to court.
"I want to personally extend my gratitude to Jason for working with us on this matter professionally and rapidly. It has recently come to my attention that some members within our community have posted personal information including addresses and phone numbers for Jason.
"I personally request that anyone that has posted private information, including any private addresses or phone numbers for Jason, please remove this information from public spaces. This is a completely civil matter, and we do not wish any harm or intrusion of privacy for Jason and his family.
"I sincerely thank everyone for their candid messages of support. The responses we have received have been extraordinarily kind! Thank you.
"Respectfully,
Casey B Strom
CEO, ABUniverse"
Hopefully the entire debacle's over with. Hopefully.
OhHeyThere said:Yes, yes, all well and good...
Now, about the Cushies Preschool? Any update? xD
Argent said:Damnit now I am curious, what happened to the rip off SDKv1s?
Did they not actually exist?
klo555 said:Howdy,
My name is Casey Strom, and I was to correct you on a major point:
Weifang Panda is a company that we have fought extensively to keep our IP from being stolen. They are a trading company with absolutely no machines. I have driven to their offices in Weifang, Shandong Province, China. They look for ABDL prints that they CAN print, and they display them as examples. We do NOT work with them. We work with other machine operators that are able to give us real assurances that they will protect our IP. We have an operations manager on staff in China that works exclusively for Strom Holdings ABU for the manufacturing of diapers. An upside down print could never happen due to her being the one ensuring that specifications are met, product is packaged correctly, and everything is impeccably clean and a match to our branding and cultural standards.
Jason purchased his stock from the original machine operator in Korea that we do not work with anymore due to major differences in opinion over quality, and the use of a 30 year old baby diaper machine. They has access to the art files of the SDK though. The SDK is our intellectual property, was designed by ABUniverse in 2008, and was sold to Strom Holdings ABU in the sale in 2015 on hard documents that were signed, witnessed, notarized, and paid for. The bears are a replica of an art file that was owned by another company (that P&G sold the rights to) that went bankrupt, had its assets reassigned, and the copyright was abandoned. We investigated that matter with counsel once we realized that the art was a replica. If it comes up as a real matter, we'll cross the bridge when we get there, but that isn't a concern at this time.
Your analogy about the cat photo and Kinko's is far from the truth - but I see what you are getting at. It's not that easy - otherwise there would be more players and more counterfeits. Just because you can make a copy of a Gucci handbag certainly does not make it Gucci, even if the people making the copy are just going by a set of specifications they think are from Gucci!
Regarding Bianco vs. Simple - The money is in the SAP used. The type of SAP used, the ratio of SAP to Pulp, and the amount of SAP/Pulp used. It results in an expensive diaper. I understand the price concern, and I promise that we are working on a diaper that is more cost effective, but still maintains the same quality and allows us to deliver the same customer service and other qualities that set ABU apart.
Also, I will confirm, that Kyle is an alias for Jason. I have NO clue about Amy/Nick..
I take a heartfelt appreciation to everyone showing support, and to everyone engaging into conversation. This conversation results in growth and more knowledge of our industry, and less complacency when it comes to what our vendors do to bring products to us. I use diapers for fun as an AB/DL and am very active in the PNW community.
-Thanks,
Casey Strom