Not sure where to put this but this concerns a lot of people on Patreon

[frankenmup]

I actually don't think that this type of action is legal. According to their own guidlines:

Our first reflex is always to try to educate creators to help them understand how a rule has been broken and how to remedy the issue. In cases where the violation is particularly bad or intentional we may take further action such as suspending or removing their account. In the most extreme cases we may ban a creator from using Patreon.

So first action should normally be to contact authors and have the issue sorted out. Further actions are only allowed in cases of bad intention (which includes that creator understand that they break rules) or in "particular bad cases" - which is hard to argue when a creator has been publishing the same kind of work for a long time without complaints. In addition to their guidelines, Patreon is also bound to exhibit fair business practices and not willfully disrupt the income of their customers when there is a milder way to settle differences.

Unfortunably, creators with kinky content will probably be very reluctant, but I'd love to see Patreon being sued for this.

 

[ABDElsa]

I actually don't think that this type of action is legal. According to their own guidlines:



So first action should normally be to contact authors and have the issue sorted out. Further actions are only allowed in cases of bad intention (which includes that creator understand that they break rules) or in "particular bad cases" - which is hard to argue when a creator has been publishing the same kind of work for a long time without complaints. In addition to their guidelines, Patreon is also bound to exhibit fair business practices and not willfully disrupt the income of their customers when there is a milder way to settle differences.

Unfortunably, creators with kinky content will probably be very reluctant, but I'd love to see Patreon being sued for this.

#SuePatreon

 

[BoundCoder]

I actually don't think that this type of action is legal. According to their own guidlines:



So first action should normally be to contact authors and have the issue sorted out. Further actions are only allowed in cases of bad intention (which includes that creator understand that they break rules) or in "particular bad cases" - which is hard to argue when a creator has been publishing the same kind of work for a long time without complaints. In addition to their guidelines, Patreon is also bound to exhibit fair business practices and not willfully disrupt the income of their customers when there is a milder way to settle differences.

Unfortunably, creators with kinky content will probably be very reluctant, but I'd love to see Patreon being sued for this.

Nice thought, but basically every site in existence that hosts user content will have verbiage somewhere that basically says "we can still just remove content/terminate your account if we feel like it and we owe you nothing even if you literally just paid us".

Quick skim of Patreon's TOS has the usual:

We can terminate or suspend your account at any time at our sole discretion. We can also cancel any membership subscriptions and remove any descriptions, posts, offerings, or benefits at our sole discretion. You may not bring a claim against us for suspending or terminating another person’s account, and you agree you will not bring such a claim. If you try to bring such a claim, you are responsible for the damages caused, including attorneys’ fees and costs. These terms remain in effect even if you no longer have an account.

There are some consumer protection laws that can superseded a TOS, but I don't think any of them are going to be helpful in this case.

 

[caitianx]

Sigh...
Looking from PATREON's viewpoint, they did what they did to "Eliminate the GROOMERS".

 

[BoundCoder]

My actual assumption is that as part of their pre-IPO mechanizations they were given an ultimatum by their payment processor to get rid of content falling under a set of buckets, of which ABDL clearly fell into. As many have pointed out, this was done in fairly quick and non-discriminate way. If it was in any way involved with ABDL, regardless of whether clearly adult or not, it got nuked.

Damned if I know why Visa and Mastercard have such an interest in being the morality police, but they have a long history of this kind of behaviour.

 

[KittyninjaW]

My actual assumption is that as part of their pre-IPO mechanizations they were given an ultimatum by their payment processor to get rid of content falling under a set of buckets, of which ABDL clearly fell into. As many have pointed out, this was done in fairly quick and non-discriminate way. If it was in any way involved with ABDL, regardless of whether clearly adult or not, it got nuked.

Damned if I know why Visa and Mastercard have such an interest in being the morality police, but they have a long history of this kind of behaviour.

Yeah, your thing seems the most likely but It's still kinda sad. Why should credit card companies be the morality police? It makes no sense. They should do only two things and two things alone. Provide the money to pay for stuff and make big bills afterwards, that's it.

 

[Davvyboy]

Are they really going to be shutdown forever? It breaks my heart how people can make these kind of ignorant judgements about minority groups that they don't take any time to understand. We shouldn't have to constantly defend ourselves against being paedos.
It was not that long ago gay men had to do the same mind. Being abdl doesn't make me a paedo any more that being British or being allergic to asparagus. Just let us live our lives!! We have no interest in children.

Very well said Prill

 

[toddlerPampers]

Not surprised at all. In the minds of many, playing baby is not a kink, it’s simulation. As such, it involves children, making it pedophilia.

Wearing baby diapers and sucking a pacifier is definitely simulation, I agree, but I do it not to feel abused, but rather safe and secure. We’re all jealous of babies, if anything.

You will also get the intolerant kinksters who see kink as some kind of art form, which they feel is mocked and trivialized by baby play.

Ideally, ABDL would be viewed as therapeutic, not entirely sexual, and be allowed elsewhere. There’s some content on YouTube, which is good.

 

[frankenmup]

My actual assumption is that as part of their pre-IPO mechanizations they were given an ultimatum by their payment processor to get rid of content falling under a set of buckets, of which ABDL clearly fell into. As many have pointed out, this was done in fairly quick and non-discriminate way. If it was in any way involved with ABDL, regardless of whether clearly adult or not, it got nuked.

Damned if I know why Visa and Mastercard have such an interest in being the morality police, but they have a long history of this kind of behaviour.

The financial value of the company Patreon is determined by the trust that the audience has in them handling everything reasonably and providing a realiable and nice environment to everyone. When they find that kinky stuff scares other creators, this might be an acceptable reason to terminate the kinky stuff, but it's not an acceptable reason to do it in such a disruptive way. But, hey, they didn't even state any change of business strategy, so this makes no sense.
Patreon depends very much on the trust of the creators that any issues are dealt with in a sensible way, so it's just a bad move especially before an IPO.

Nice thought, but basically every site in existence that hosts user content will have verbiage somewhere that basically says "we can still just remove content/terminate your account if we feel like it and we owe you nothing even if you literally just paid us".

Quick skim of Patreon's TOS has the usual:

There are some consumer protection laws that can superseded a TOS, but I don't think any of them are going to be helpful in this case.

This termination clause (I hope we refer to the same) refers to patrons and not to creators, and they are bound by both statements anyways. Above all, there's section 5 FTC Act (15 USC 45) which prohibits unfair practices in affecting commerce. You cannot legally state in some community guidelines that you will always sort out problems with the creators first and then unreasonably ignore these guidelines.

Ultimately, it's a thing to ask a US lawyer, but I see good chances. Certainly don't trust me, I'm only an anonymous kinky owl in an Internet fetish forum and just give an opinion.

 

[BoundCoder]

Patreon depends very much on the trust of the creators that any issues are dealt with in a sensible way, so it's just a bad move especially before an IPO.

Patreon has recently made a number of unpopular changes that seem to fly in the face of that (most recently the whole free tier thing, which most people are assuming is a scheme for them to make their subscriber numbers look better). Then again their pre-IPO valuation dropped from 4B in 2021 down to 1.5B today so maybe they just suck at business.

Personally I think they are a lost cause for anything adult or in the same realm as adult, but the more adult alternatives (which I suspect not allowed to mention on this forum) are probably a far better choice for now.

As for the legalese, as you said it's a job for a lawyer. I'd be blown away if that was written in a way that opens them to liability (eliminating liability is usually one of the main goals of a TOS).. but also not a lawyer so who knows.

 

[BoundCoder]

I doubt it would do any good trying to actually get in, but I'll leave this here in case anyone is feeling bored (a few creators have noticed this, but haven't seen it posted here yet).

 

[MiddleJacob]

#SuePatreon

I have such a crush on @ABDElsa that I support it!

 

[ABDElsa]

I have such a crush on @ABDElsa that I support it!

Me or my Avatar?

 

[thatguy46]

It might be time to change the ABDL Name to something like, ALS, (Adult Little's Space) or ALT, (Adult Little's Time) ? and leve the ABDL name to those who have already dragged it into the mud.

there comes a point with all groups once they become large enough that breaking out under a different name is necessary. Too many people have the crazy wierdo version in their head of people to go to children's playgrounds dressed in a messy diaper.

 

[ajp22]

there comes a point with all groups once they become large enough that breaking out under a different name is necessary. Too many people have the crazy wierdo version in their head of people to go to children's playgrounds dressed in a messy diaper.

There will always be some bad people once any kind of group/community gets large enough, so even if we were to change the name it would probably just be a question of time until we're at the same spot we were before.

 

[thatguy46]

There will always be some bad people once any kind of group/community gets large enough, so even if we were to change the name it would probably just be a question of time until we're at the same spot we were before.

True given further growth in population or the new rebranded community would need to be rather strict on stamping out the extremist that try to join... like the ones who steal used diapers out of trashcans at parks or the ones that visit and play on playgrounds dressed as a baby/child.

 

[Kirisin]

The problem they never think about. Banning someone only makes them change there name and right back in the door. Continuing to ban a particular group over and over sooner or later they will get tired of hitting the delete button. It may make them take a bigger look at our group and find out where not what they think we are. I went on a rant about this once before. I'll give them this there consistent with there misunderstanding of who and what we are.

 

[KittyninjaW]

The problem they never think about. Banning someone only makes them change there name and right back in the door. Continuing to ban a particular group over and over sooner or later they will get tired of hitting the delete button. It may make them take a bigger look at our group and find out where not what they think we are. I went on a rant about this once before. I'll give them this there consistent with there misunderstanding of who and what we are.

Good point. I do hope that your right. Either that or everyone else goes far away from them because word does spread.

 

[Ranma]

Star is still up on Fa her page has switched to PayPal we just need to support her there.

So glad about that. The last post I read in my inbox a few weeks ago said she was taking a week off. " It's unlikely there will be a shine page this week as I haven't been able to draw one yet. But by next week life should be largely back to the usual swing."

Then today, after wondering where she'd gone, I saw her account missing from my Patreon page. I've been a paid supporter of her for years and I absolutely adore her stories and art. I just, can't, believe... that Patreon did that to a bunch of creators out of the blue! So glad she's still up on FA as I've been worried about her, but geeeez! Thankfully it will be very easy for me to login to my FA account and follow her there. So glad she's got such a dedicated support community.

EDIT: Geez they even got rid of https://www.patreon.com/HowToWearAdultDiapers who is still up on Youtube and planning a new site: https://www.youtube.com/@howtowearadultdiapers I like his content, glad he's still up.

 

[Alecsam]

UPDATE: little late on this update but since the patreon purge a lot of abdls who were purged from the site are moving to just for fans ( JFF ); and unlike partreon JFF is abdl friendly apparently going as far as to have it's own tab for abdl.

Honestly in my eyes patreon is now infamous status in the community now