what is your y = mx + b

[daylight]

Hi again or just hi depending on if you are reading this as the second question or the first question I am posting. Anyhoo (again).

Time and time again we see as a result of the cross intersection of this sub-forum (incontinence) a range of curiosity to trolling questions regarding incontinence from non-incontinent peeps; curiosity, your dx/approaches/stories, self-okay-ness, and a slew of other things. There are some really interesting questions-posts some more medical (IC -cystitis using the acronym correctly, appliances, pelvic floor, IBS, etc) and emotional (coping and supporting).

So, my question or maybe more of my line v your line, asking what is your line. I view the forum and this (incontinence) sub as respectful discussions and curiosity but, some questions, responses cross my line of acceptance. We all have a different lines hence, mx + b. I try to view it as more of a nth polynomial, fuzzy, than linear - that's vague. Mainly for me it is tone and perceived exploitive-ness of the message that affects my ire. What about yourself?

Second, how do you view declaring yourself DL, AB, ABDL, or little, or _____ AND incontinent. Obviously, there is tension between these ABCs and incontinence. Does this define your line? Do others and for yourself declaring their/your like of _____ in your mind delegitimize your incontinence?

I don't think I captured what I am asking very well. Maybe others can pipe in with their thoughts.

 

[Zeke]

I have trouble with a few of the questions that seem rather callous and obtuse when it comes to incontinence, but as to the amalgamation of AB’s, DL’s, ABDL’s, and those of us with IC I don’t have any problem. Part of that may be from my own experience. For as long as I can remember I’ve had an affinity for plastic pants but sans diapers. Then when I became incontinent a little over 6 years ago I soon switched from budget breaking disposables to gauze contour diapers, which then gave me a reason for wearing my beloved plastic pants. After making a conscious decision to not see diapers as drudgery, since I was going to be wearing them for the duration, I began to enjoy my diapers, especially after establishing procedures to deal with messy diapers, skin care, and laundry. So I’ve actually come to the point of adding DL to my IC designation and as long as those that don’t have the condition ask their questions respectfully, and realize that they’re in the IC section of this forum, I have no problem with them.

 

[blaincorrous]

Hi again or just hi depending on if you are reading this as the second question or the first question I am posting. Anyhoo (again).

Time and time again we see as a result of the cross intersection of this sub-forum (incontinence) a range of curiosity to trolling questions regarding incontinence from non-incontinent peeps; curiosity, your dx/approaches/stories, self-okay-ness, and a slew of other things. There are some really interesting questions-posts some more medical (IC -cystitis using the acronym correctly, appliances, pelvic floor, IBS, etc) and emotional (coping and supporting).

So, my question or maybe more of my line v your line, asking what is your line. I view the forum and this (incontinence) sub as respectful discussions and curiosity but, some questions, responses cross my line of acceptance. We all have a different lines hence, mx + b. I try to view it as more of a nth polynomial, fuzzy, than linear - that's vague. Mainly for me it is tone and perceived exploitive-ness of the message that affects my ire. What about yourself?

Second, how do you view declaring yourself DL, AB, ABDL, or little, or _____ AND incontinent. Obviously, there is tension between these ABCs and incontinence. Does this define your line? Do others and for yourself declaring their/your like of _____ in your mind delegitimize your incontinence?

I don't think I captured what I am asking very well. Maybe others can pipe in with their thoughts.

I love mathematicians. They help me feel how everyone else feels when I talk to them about IT.

 

[greatlake5]

I'm complete IC, 24/7 diapers and I consider myself as an IC person. And yes, others with semi-appropriate questions (curiosity) sometimes blur the questions. It's easy to just move on without any answers. I will admit I have some non-incontinence questions for myself. I've learned so much but I usually don't post.

 

[Pino]

Well, i cant understand AB - and all the other stuff really, but that is simply not my interest, everybody should do what he likes best.

One thing i do not like at all are answers like:

"Just use diapers, they are awesome!" ,in the incontinent forum, that simply does not help (me) one bit.

When questions are strange, i do not answer them. That's it.

When something is clearly off, i do hope somebody will delete that stuff or put it in the right part of this site.

BUT this forum is still the best one to get good answers, "despite" all the ABDL stuff, because my incontinence is like "letting go" completely, what is not a common thing for UI, and here are the experts for the diapers that work in real life.

So, i think it is a really good point for coexistence.

Sometimes i do read in the other forums (Whats new) and find some interesting stuff for myself, what is not obviously interesting for UI people.

In an other "incon-only" forum i am feeling sometimes like a suspected "fetishist", because i do ask "weird" questions, like if somebody is using a Foley for long car drives, or how to relax the pelvic floor best to pee sitting in a car. That kind of questions are strange, because my kind of problems seem to be very rare. And, maybe that sounds strange here, i do love to be able to ask EVERYTHING and not having the feeling to be odd.

 

[KitsuneFox]

I’m a life long DL who started showing signs of incontinence in my early 20’s, and now have almost no control of my bladder and slowly losing control of my bowels thanks to nerve degradation.

I understand where a lot of the questions ABs / DLs post here come from.

One of the biggest misconceptions is that being forced to wear diapers 24/7 is really really enjoyable. In reality, diapers lose “that something special feeling” and become an annoying burden at times.

 

[CheshireCat]

Here is my 2¢ worth.
First, regarding "What is my line?"
There is a statement in the header on every page of the Incontinence Forum:

The Incontinence forum is for people with genuine incontinence issues. Posting made-up stories is NOT allowed, and is grounds for a ban. If you are not incontinent yourself, you should take special care to be respectful/nice when posting here.

Incontinence covers a lot of issues that can be difficult, painful, embarrassing, etc. Leakage of urine or stool is just one aspect of incontinence for most. Slapping a diaper on only contains leakage (hopefully), but does not address the difficulties, pain, embarrassments, medications, tests, procedures, doctors, etc.

Yes, I use diapers to cope with my incontinence and I have no issue using the Diaper Forum for insight regarding diapers. I fully understand that forum is not for incontinence, but for diapers. On the other hand, it is medically necessary for me to self-cath four times a day to prevent further kidney damage, but I know that if the topic of catheters and self-cathing comes up in the incontinence forum there will be plenty of non-incontinent people who will talk about how terrible catheters are, diapers are better, etc. They have crossed the line as stated in the forum header.

Second, regarding:

Second, how do you view declaring yourself DL, AB, ABDL, or little, or _____ AND incontinent. Obviously, there is tension between these ABCs and incontinence. Does this define your line? Do others and for yourself declaring their/your like of _____ in your mind delegitimize your incontinence?

When I first signed up to ADISC I labelled myself as incontinent and DL, trying to fit in. But also trying to make the best out of being fully incontinent. It took awhile before I found out that I've always had a neurogenic bladder, that my desire to wear diapers from an early age was because of the bladder issues I've always had, and that I had managed to figure out a way to go without diapers through extraordinary means. At that point I changed my profile to incontinent only. I ignore any other labels for those who list themselves as incontinent, as I understand what it's like trying to cope and fit in. Ultimately, it's how they present themselves in this forum that clues me in about their incontinence.

 

[Teddy02]

Well, i cant understand AB - and all the other stuff really, but that is simply not my interest, everybody should do what he likes best.

One thing i do not like at all are answers like:

"Just use diapers, they are awesome!" ,in the incontinent forum, that simply does not help (me) one bit.

When questions are strange, i do not answer them. That's it.

When something is clearly off, i do hope somebody will delete that stuff or put it in the right part of this site.

BUT this forum is still the best one to get good answers, "despite" all the ABDL stuff, because my incontinence is like "letting go" completely, what is not a common thing for UI, and here are the experts for the diapers that work in real life.

So, i think it is a really good point for coexistence.

Sometimes i do read in the other forums (Whats new) and find some interesting stuff for myself, what is not obviously interesting for UI people.

In an other "incon-only" forum i am feeling sometimes like a suspected "fetishist", because i do ask "weird" questions, like if somebody is using a Foley for long car drives, or how to relax the pelvic floor best to pee sitting in a car. That kind of questions are strange, because my kind of problems seem to be very rare. And, maybe that sounds strange here, i do love to be able to ask EVERYTHING and not having the feeling to be odd.

I think this is very interesting point of view. As I have always had bladder/control issues, when I became uncontrollably incontinent (UI only) following a prostatectomy I found that as a lifelong DL with AB leanings, my previous experiences were invaluable. I read a lot about the difficulty most men faced after this operation, and I well remember the look on my surgeon's face when I told him that I was not worried about the incontinence! He told me I was a rareity! Then I read more, mostly here, about the fine line that divides the IC from the ABDL and realised that it is all down to experiences and how we handle our own situation. The cross-pollination of ideas and experiences is helpful to both parties and has made me even more relaxed about how I conduct myself and yet retain some pleasure from my predicament.

 

[ltaluv]

I get tired of the endless posts with some variant of, "I got diagnosed with incontinence, the doctor tried to push a bunch of meds, but I read that those never work so I just accepted diapers and became a DL!" Mostly those just get an eye roll out of me, but the ones that cross the line from ill-informed to misinformation get reported. So maybe that's where my line is.

As @CheshireCat mentions, any mention of catheters garners a bunch of posts saying how they suck, they're painful, you'll get UTIs, and diapers are better. It seems not to matter how many times it's pointed out that catheters and diapers treat essentially opposite problems (urinary retention versus leakage), that retention is a bigger risk factor for UTI than properly-used catheters, that they haven't been the standards of care for incontinence for years, or that they're an important to for managing some symptoms, you still get the people who want to pile on to say how much it hurt that one time they were cathed and they'll just wear a diaper. It gets old rebuffing the same misinformation over and over again. That sort of misinformation goes on in a lot of threads, covering a wide take off topics, because some people here are more interested in wearing diapers than they are at finding the best tools for managing incontinence. Diapers may be the best tool for some people, but there are a lot of other tools too try before deciding that they're really the best for any individual situation.

As far as accepting incontinence by becoming a DL, I think of it like this: one of my medical issues gives me moderate nausea on a daily basis. I take Zofran, which sometimes helps and sometimes doesn't, and Phenergan, which makes me sleepy. I could post that I've embraced my vomiting side by becoming a vomit lover, then talk about how much I love my nausea, and how I like to vomit on myself every chance I get or wake up in a vomit-filled bed, but I doubt most people would believe me. Yes, there are people who fetishize that sort of thing, but you can't become one just by deciding that you want to accept your intractable nausea. By the same token, I have trouble believing that becoming a DL to accept your incontinence is just a matter of changing your attitude.

 

[Teddy02]

I I have trouble believing that becoming a DL to accept your incontinence is just a matter of changing your attitude.

I would agree with most of what you say but if being incontinent is a negative emotion/condition then adjusting how you feel about it, ie. Turning it into a positive, must be a good thing. I have spoken to one other fellow who had the same prostate operation as me and this is how he told me he had adjusted to is new life. The joy of life is that we are all different and approach our problems in different ways.
BTW I did have a retention issue some years ago. Turned up at hospital in agony at 03.00 but the Dr still wanted my name, address, medical record etc.etc.etc. I just screamed “put the damed catheter in …. Please.” Boy was she mean!!!!

 

[ShyBoo81]

Im good at algebra. So as soon as I saw that y=mx+b equation I tried figuring out what the word problem is supposed to be, what each variable represent, and how to get a solution lol

On a serious note, I somewhat understand your analogy about where the “line” should be drawn when writing a post in the incontinence forum. Im not incontinent myself, and would never wish myself to be cause I know being 24/7 will only turn diaper wearing into a chore, and ABDL will lose its “special feeling” as KitsuneFox mentioned

 

[Eclectic]

I suffered when I was a kid and it took me years to realize just how messed up my bladder and bowel urgency was back then. Too many accidents to recall, some of them I had in school were so embarrassing I have fuzzy recollections and mostly blocked them out of my mind. I do not want to dredge those stories up for people who might find it "exciting" to read (and there seem to be more of them on ADISC than there used to be). That's not support folks, that's entertainment!

Of course as an adult, my urge IC has gotten worse. Since I have been wearing them for so long, I have a hard time understanding why someone would want to wear a diaper and not use it for its intended purpose. There is a lot of BS on this site (and on the internet in general), but as long as people respect each others opinions and life situations, I can deal with it. What I have a problem with are obvious fap stories and people talking about incontinence who have no idea what it's like or even what incontinence really is.

I consider myself a little and somewhat of a DL, though the latter peaked when I was a teenager and has waned ever since. I suspect the most immature posts on here are from teenagers who have yet to grasp the importance of respectful communication.

 

[daylight]

Second, regarding:

When I first signed up to ADISC I labelled myself as incontinent and DL, trying to fit in. But also trying to make the best out of being fully incontinent. It took awhile before I found out that I've always had a neurogenic bladder, that my desire to wear diapers from an early age was because of the bladder issues I've always had, and that I had managed to figure out a way to go without diapers through extraordinary means. At that point I changed my profile to incontinent only. I ignore any other labels for those who list themselves as incontinent, as I understand what it's like trying to cope and fit in. Ultimately, it's how they present themselves in this forum that clues me in about their incontinence.

Thank you. I think this summarizes a reason using a personal perspective.

How we cope and integrate our health care into our lives requires a lot of trial and error. I am immunocompromised and it has taught (teaching) me a lot. Coping is ever changing. Hence, my questions on whether ABCs is destructive or healing. Regardless. Ultimately, I believe facing issues leads to greater inner strength, greater introspection, and heightened compassion. Or in some, a curmudgeonly tinted outlook. Not naming nor implied pointing.

 

[daylight]

I love mathematicians. They help me feel how everyone else feels when I talk to them about IT.

I think people don’t realize how much of the nuances in the big band theory sitcom is freakishly close to reality!

 

[daylight]

I get tired of the endless posts with some variant of, "I got diagnosed with incontinence, the doctor tried to push a bunch of meds, but I read that those never work so I just accepted diapers and became a DL!" Mostly those just get an eye roll out of me, but the ones that cross the line from ill-informed to misinformation get reported. So maybe that's where my line is.

Fair. There are those that have tried meds and legitimately seek other choices. Eastern vs Western for one.

I will add the fishing expeditions are annoying - tell me a story (how).

 

[mickdl]

So I broadly share Italuv's opinion - even though we probably have a different history. It also gets on my nerves when people write "use a diaper - preferably the thickest one and your problem is solved".

This is not only annoying but also completely misleading to those - who may not yet be well versed and really want to do something about their incontinence. Of course there are situations like a paraplegia where you can't do much - but the amusing thing is that exactly those people cry loudest for diapers who often suffer from urge incontinence - but exactly there you can do a lot.

About the DL passion thing: I think Italuv is right here too. I am DL since my childhood. You develop a fetish in youth - as an adult you hardly get something like that. This means then in reverse, but also that if someone becomes incontinent only as an adult and does not have this fetish, then he will also develop with high probability no more. Defacto is rather the opposite the case, those who suffer from incontinence feel used by the fetichists rather and not understood.

Since it started with IC(cystis) for me and now I also have BPS problems, I find the topic of DL rather difficult. In the meantime I have tried a lot of things to become continent again and the experiences of others - not only from this forum - have been very helpful.

I think if you want to get rid of the incontinence problem - or at least achieve an improvement, you won't get very far with the fetish - because it tends to hold you captive.

From my point of view it is much more difficult for a DL with incontinence to actually do something against his incontinence. It is then not only the medical/physical factors but also psychological factors that play a role and that does not make things easier.

You could talk about something like that here - but unfortunately it doesn't happen because most DL's are satisfied with the situation.That's OK for them - only sorry - for me it's just not OK. That's exactly why it's annoying to read again and again how great diapers are and "Proud" stories to tell where you're had just wet yourself again.

 

[ltaluv]

It's worth clarifying that I'm not at all against the ABDL community, nor am I bothered in the least by ABDLs posting here. People who are strictly ABDL often have valuable insights, extensive experience, and interesting viewpoints. Besides, it isn't all that uncommon for ABDL and incontinence to both be present. And anyway, it's not my forum, and I'm very respectful of the fact that I'm not the one who makes the rules.

For me, it comes down to respect. Everybody wants to feel respected, and it's hard to feel respected when you ask a question about a medical issue and get answers about a fetish. It's hard to feel respected when you're asking a sensitive question about a subject that is extremely embarrassing to talk about, and you get talked over by someone who can't understand why this is even embarrassing to you. It's hard to deal with issues of chronic pain, extensive medical tests, and expensive medical products when all the advice you're getting has to do with people who have adopted a lifestyle instead of managing a medical issue. It's hard to see your serious medical problems fetishized, and sometimes sexualized, by people who haven't ever dealt with a major medical problem at all.

If you're ABDL, I respect your insights and experiences. Reading about your ageplay, your fantasies, or your adventures and exploits wearing diapers, though, is irrelevant and comes off as disrespectful, because it dismisses my own experiences and insights managing a difficult problem. All the more because there are many forums on this site specifically dedicated to ABDL interests, but this is the only one that is appropriate to medical issues.

 

[daylight]

@Italiv, well spoken.

 

[Minih]

I think that many good points have already been made. I joined this forum because I'd not found an incontinence or IBS forum that was particularly useful - they tended to have far too many threads about how giving up apples solved their IBS, or how brilliant the Tena pullups they'd bought from Boots were for managing the incontinence caused by their mother's Alzheimer's. None of which were relevant to me or useful, and it doesn't help that faecal incontinence in men is incredibly rare.

Because so many people on this forum are interested in nappies there's some great advice available here - which I've especially found when I started using cloth nappies - and I accept the fact that sometimes the boundaries get blurred as a consequence of the ABDL crowd. As long as it's respectful, I don't mind - though like others, I do get frustrated by the "nappies [and only the thickest nappies with plastic pants] are the only solution" brigade. There are some questions I ignore, and the occasional one that I report - but that's quite rare. Even some of the borderline posts do sometimes lead into something of value.

Having said that - on so many other forums, nappies are seen as a really bad option, with people often saying that the solution is to take a change of clothes everywhere or avoid going out, and I do appreciate a forum that recognises that nappies are a useful solution for some of us. I can't emphasise enough the difference they make to my quality of life!

 

[daylight]

I am glad there is a sense of openness and community in the discussion/comments. I also want to state that in no way was the question nor tone saying or implying a “None shall pass” stance to anyone posting AND participating in this sub who isn’t incontinent. It is pretty clear in reading that is evident in others’ comments mentioning decorum and sensitivity to personal struggles.