What happend to morality?

CrinklyConnor

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I don't see anything more selfish than destroying a life/possible life because you don't want to/feel the need to raise it, etc. I'm saying that all abortions are selfish actions
Ahh, so abortions caused from rape, or abortions that, if not done could either kill just the mother, or both the mother and not allow the fetus to be born whatsoever is selfish?
 

Topex

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Abortions aren't caused by rape, they're caused by a woman's choice to kill her own child, which is a selfish act. In the event that the mother and fetus are both at risk...I'd honestly have to think more on that but believe there's middle ground to be found there in that situation
 

wetatnight

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Thou shall not kill is one of the 10 commandments
if you don't want kids take precautions or don't have sex
 

Drifter

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I would also say that Abortion should not be recognized as a method of Birth Control
That's pretty solidly on what most people would call the pro-life side. In order to make that a law Roe v Wade would have to be overturned.
 

SlashNBurn

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I don’t think it’s so much selfishness, as much it is a case of women being fed lies by society that they can’t have careers, education, universities, degrees, etc, etc....AND be parents when it is entirely possible, and women being coerced into aborting, either by males or from their parents.
Basically, most women who abort believe that there is no other choice for them, when there is.
 

BabyTyrant

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That's pretty solidly on what most people would call the pro-life side. In order to make that a law Roe v Wade would have to be overturned.
I'm middle ground, there always will be reasons why Abortions should be allowed

I just dont think using Abortion as a method of birth control is a good reason

There is a reason why there are many legitimate ways to not create a life to begin with, condoms, IUDs, Pills, Emergency Contraceptives; etc.

Better to not create a life, than to create a life and then choose to abort, or raise a life when the Mom/Parents are not ready for it (which could be financially, psychologically, etc)

And sure "rape doesn't cause abortion" but a Woman may not want to raise a Child that could serve as a reminder of a traumatic event in their life; or they can birth the child and put it in the Adoption system; which may or may not end up well

They could have an amazing life with amazing parents, or they could end up with bad parents multiple times and continually be put back into the system

And I am pretty sure a lot of the times that a Woman is the one that decides to abort, without being Coerced; they seem to always say "my body, my choice" and that nobody else should be able to influence them in any kind of way

And again I would also concede if it was fully developed and able to live outside of the Womb without Hospitalization that it is then a Viable life; at that point yes I dont think abortion should be allowed

I am neither making a hard push for Abortion, or Against Abortion; there are reasons why Abortions have to be allowed in some instances.

But once it is a fully developed child ready to live, then Abortion should be taken off the table.
 
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DanielW

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But once it is a fully developed child ready to live, then Abortion should be taken off the table.
I hope everyone here realizes that their is already a cut-off within the law that already takes an abortion off the table as an option well before that can happen.
 

BabyTyrant

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I hope everyone here realizes that their is already a cut-off within the law that already takes an abortion off the table as an option well before that can happen.
I realize such a thing exists in Laws that are already in place; but it seems for a lot of Pro-Life people that isnt enough

I dont think it's really fair to count a life as viable life upon conception, like the Pro-Life side wants

And that's where most of the debate is centered; when it is actually considered alive, with Pro-Life saying it is a valuable life upon conception; but Pro-Choice deciding it isnt a viable life until however many months later
 

PaddedStag

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Abortions aren't caused by rape, they're caused by a woman's choice to kill her own child, which is a selfish act. In the event that the mother and fetus are both at risk...I'd honestly have to think more on that but believe there's middle ground to be found there in that situation
Yes, because the rapist has zero responsibility for impregnating their victim(s).

I still can't believe how many people continue to ignore the CAUSE of the problem (pregnancy), and focus on the victim's choice to recover/heal from it, instead.
 

PaddedStag

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Thou shall not kill is one of the 10 commandments
if you don't want kids take precautions or don't have sex
Actually, the Commandment reads- "Thou Shall Not Commit Murder"
There are tons of references where the bible supports/promotes killing/murdering.
No hypocrisy there. Nope.
 

PaddedStag

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I hope everyone here realizes that their is already a cut-off within the law that already takes an abortion off the table as an option well before that can happen.
I would suggest you do some homework on current legislation put in place and being promoted, that 'Allows' for a baby being born, to be 'Aborted'.
Legally.

Totally disgusting, that.
 

Topex

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Yes, because the rapist has zero responsibility for impregnating their victim(s).

I still can't believe how many people continue to ignore the CAUSE of the problem (pregnancy), and focus on the victim's choice to recover/heal from it, instead.
I never said that the rapist doesn't have any responsibility for impregnating the victim, but it isn't the rapist who makes the choice to abort a child
 

BabyTyrant

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I never said that the rapist doesn't have any responsibility for impregnating the victim, but it isn't the rapist who makes the choice to abort a child
It is so much more complex than "killing a life"

You have to realize that there is always a possibility there will be health problems that either the mom, or the Baby, or both could face

Some complications can be life threatening to the mother; in which case the death of the mother would have a much bigger impact than the death of a Baby that hasn't really lived yet

Plus why birth a baby if the doctor says the baby will have a horrible life, and die young in a horrible way?

There was a guy at work that had a baby with his Woman, the doctor said its organs didn't form properly and it would likely die very young; they still birthed the child and it died within a couple months of birth.

Not to mention to some mothers that have been raped a child is a reflection of the child's father; is this fair to the child? No it isnt

But in the case of Rape that kid might be a traumatic reminder of what happened to them

IF the fetus was going to be 100% healthy, yes it is a shame if they get aborted and dont have a chance to live

But we can't predict this 1 way or the other

Not to mention the earth is so overpopulated

We should not have 7+ billion people on the planet, but we do and we should be doing things to slow the population growth; not keep it growing

That doesn't mean not have kids or abort them every time

That means dont have sex, or at least use some kind of birth control (if not more than one)

Or maybe have 1 or 2 kids; 1 means population growth will slow down and eventually we will have a lower population

2 means the population stays steady

And even kids that get born to be healthy may not end up with anything better than a horrible life of struggling

You have to think of it in multiple ways because it is not so Simple as killing a life, or allowing it to live and it isnt simply a moral debate
 
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DanielW

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I would suggest you do some homework on current legislation put in place and being promoted, that 'Allows' for a baby being born, to be 'Aborted'.
Legally.

Totally disgusting, that.
I find it odd you would suggest something to me that you haven't done yourself. Puzzling indeed
 

NotTheAverageMan

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I believe in free abortion. But then again, I'm from Denmark, and don't give a rat's mass about religion. In my belief religions should be banned. Not people's right to decide for their own lives, and an unwanted child.
 

daylight

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don't give a rat's mass about religion.

I've been following the discussion and have tried to abstain for the comments as for me it is a personal choice and should remain so. Debating to try to convince someone that doesn't want to change is pointless. However, I found this latest reply, of course taking it completely out of context, adding a break to the take-no-prisoners dialog.

Now the questions arise:
  1. Are rats religious? If so, do they attend mass?
    1. Does this imply only Catholic rats? Are there Buddhist rats?
    2. What is the author trying to say about rat religion?
  2. Is your objection measured by the average mass of an average rat? Is this a lot?
    1. Which species?
    2. What cultural/regional influences influenced your choice of animal? For instance why not a whale?
 

Topex

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I believe in free abortion. But then again, I'm from Denmark, and don't give a rat's mass about religion. In my belief religions should be banned. Not people's right to decide for their own lives, and an unwanted child.
I understand people not subscribing to religious philosophies, but why should religions be outright banned? That's just ridiculous
 

CrinklyConnor

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I understand people not subscribing to religious philosophies, but why should religions be outright banned? That's just ridiculous
Because religions are immoral. They have killed so many lives in so many different religions.
 

BabyTyrant

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The problem isnt religion itself, it's the people that claim to know what a religion is about

But what they practice is actually 180 Degrees from what the religion was meant to be

I grew up going to church and I have yet to hear the stories of Jesus where he went around telling people that they were living the wrong life, and that they were going to Hell, and that you should not help people unless they can pay you money for it

The stories I have heard about were about Jesus going around helping people, because it was the right thing to do; even if they were people that nobody else in society would help and that everyone ignored

Yet some "Religious" people act like they themselves are Gods, like they have a right to treat people however they want based off of who the person is

For example the classic Christianity Vs LGBTQ struggle

They always like to say "my Religion doesn't allow for" ; but that is just an excuse for not feeling comfortable with something; when really it is not their approval that matters

There are good religious people too; it is not the Religion, its whoever is practicing the religion that thinks it allows them to act high and mighty and to treat some people like they are less than Human.

I say practice whatever religion you want; your religious rights end where a persons rights to be treated fairly start

But anyways this is going off on a Tangent and not completely relevant to the topic at hand; though it does touch on Morality
 
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AnalogRTO

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So what about the 'morning after pill' (also often called Plan B)? One of the ways it works is preventing a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus, is that abortion? What about the use of standard birth control? Where does that fit in?
 
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