United Kingdom is it illegle to change or get changed in a public toilet?

Do you think it is against the law to change nappies in the puplic toilets?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 2.8%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 29 80.6%
  • I do not know

    Votes: 2 5.6%
  • As long as it is OK with the changer and the changee

    Votes: 4 11.1%
  • Ewww...

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • You just ruined my lunch!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I think it should be against the law

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Each to their own I guess

    Votes: 2 5.6%
  • I do not feel strongly one way or the other

    Votes: 1 2.8%

  • Total voters
    36
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Angellothefox

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I do not usually go here on Weekdays, and I know that I should have put this in the mature sectore where politics, soicial justic get's talked about but I am putting it here.

So I want to know is it against the law in the UK to change another adult nappy or be changed by a adult in a public toilet?
Please post evidence supporting your response if you can.
:laugh: And yes you can always comment on your opinion or whatever.:laugh:


I went to a meeting 1 was the support community and the other was about supported living.

Here they clam in the meeting that it would be against the law to change a man's/woman's nappy in a public toilet.

I was chatting with a friend and they said it is ridiculous.
If they are not doing anything wrong or sexual :wallbash: (Sorry to use that word)
Then they should be no need for concerns.
The toilet is private enough and nobody can see it. If it is a cubical maybe?



:rolleyes: But then again this is not the first time that the support community used the law to stop me from doing stuff *Coff Coff Wearing nappies and throwing them away in the bin. *Coff coff*.





So what do you think?
At the bottom, I decided to do a poll so you can get engaged. It will be up for as long as the mods get sick of it. ;)
 

PaddedDeist

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Incontinence is pretty common as well as people needing help to do certain common tasks due to some sort of disability. In the US, this could be something covered by the ADA or similar laws. I think the UK is progressive enough to have it's own disabled protection laws. As for people who wear for "fun", things could get murky but they may simply be protected since it is rude to ask people what their disability is. If they keep cool and just change, they would likely just blend in with the truly incontinent.

Of course, context is everything. Just changing would likely be well-protected. If there is any sort of sexual activity involved than I'm sure "decency laws" would come into play.

I don't know why throwing nappies away in the bin would be a problem unless there's some sort of requirement to bag the used diaper of if they have to go into a special bin. In the latter case, there may be an affirmative defense if there isn't a proper bin available.
 

RubberJin

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An odd thing to poll about if you want a correct answer rather than an opinion?

I doubt anyone using a disabled toilet would be challenged as to their exact need as many issues are not physically visible, and most staff in public places know that.

In fact I can't see why there would be any issue with someone changing in any public facility unless you were overtly indulging in fetish-type behaviour and it strayed into public indecency!
 

tiny

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No -- it's not illegal. It'd be a blow to disabled people if carers weren't allowed to change them.

If you're doing this as part of a fetish, I suppose you could be potentially prosecuted for "outraging public decency" or something similar...
 

dogboy

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I'm almost surprised North Carolina hasn't come up with a law making it illegal to change in a public restroom without a Dr.'s note verifying they're incontinent. I'm being facetious of course since N. Carolina had passed a transgender bathroom bill, one that got changed, eventually.
 

SpAzpieSweeTot

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I do not usually go here on Weekdays, and I know that I should have put this in the mature sectore where politics, soicial justic get's talked about but I am putting it here.

So I want to know is it against the law in the UK to change another adult nappy or be changed by a adult in a public toilet?
Please post evidence supporting your response if you can.
:laugh: And yes you can always comment on your opinion or whatever.:laugh:


I went to a meeting 1 was the support community and the other was about supported living. Here they clam in the meeting that it would be against the law to change a man's/woman's nappy in a public toilet.

I was chatting with a friend and they said it is ridiculous.
If they are not doing anything wrong or sexual :wallbash: (Sorry to use that word), then they should be no need for concerns.
The toilet is private enough and nobody can see it. If it is a cubical maybe?

:rolleyes: But then again this is not the first time that the support community used the law to stop me from doing stuff *Coff Coff Wearing nappies and throwing them away in the bin. *Coff coff*.

So what do you think?
At the bottom, I decided to do a poll so you can get engaged. It will be up for as long as the mods get sick of it. ;)
Are you daft?! Of course not! The U.K. even has special Changing Places for IC people. That's proof it's not illegal to change in public.

Not that all IC people who can use those Changing Places also use wheelchairs, but, a lot of those Changing Places have lifts over the changing tables, for wheelchair users, who can't transfer by themselves. Most people who can't transfer to and from their wheelchairs, and the toilet, also need help changing, duh, and people know that. I have a friend meeting the afore mentioned criteria, and his aid is female. Now he's even married, and she changes him a lot, I assume, in public, too. I'd like to see someone try to stop her from changing her wheelchair using, IC, husband. She'd put a foot somewhere feet don't belong. Now, what would be illegal is using a Changing Place without medical need for diapers, or, I suppose, a place to change, for disabled people, IC included, who are potty-trying, since that's who the Changing Places are meant for. I doubt anyone would be interested in proving you a faker, but it's uncouth to use any kinda disabled toilet you don't need.
Faking disability isn't nice. Use a regular gender-appropriate toilet, and do it yourself, or with a caretaker of the same gender as you, since, I assume, medical need doesn't cancel that out for you, and you'd be fine.
 
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siysiy

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I have just let my Little know aboult this thread

is he going to enjoy telling you all about changing places

go for Isaac!
 

littleisaac

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I believe it should be okay for adults to change each other & im a big supporter of the changing places campaign & think by us using them we are helping the campaign. Just remember to leave them in an appropriate condition afterwards. http://changingplaces.uktoiletmap.org
 

SpAzpieSweeTot

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I believe it should be okay for adults to change each other & im a big supporter of the changing places campaign & think by us using them we are helping the campaign. Just remember to leave them in an appropriate condition afterwards. http://changingplaces.uktoiletmap.org
How is it helpful for non disabled (including non IC) people to use any kind of disabled toilet? Why y'think they have to be locked up? Because people are abusing them, that's why. Thank God someone's always with my sister, as having to ask special permission to use a Changing Place would embarrass her terribly. You don't even have to do that in disabled toilets not set up for changes! They wouldn't have to be locked up, and special permission wouldn't be needed if people would stop abusing them! I tell you 1 thing; if I bring my sister to the U.K., and she leaks through, and embarrasses herself in public, because the only Changing Place was occupied by someone only in there because he or she is AB/Little, or DL, I'm gonna be angry. That's no different than the druggies using them for places to get high. If you choose to use your nappy only recreationally, you choose to change in a regular toilet, or at home! End of rant.
 
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littleisaac

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Are you daft?! Of course not! The U.K. even has special Changing Places for IC people. That's proof it's not illegal to change in public.

Not that all IC people who can use those Changing Places also use wheelchairs, but, a lot of those Changing Places have lifts over the changing tables, for wheelchair users, who can't transfer by themselves. Most people who can't transfer to and from their wheelchairs, and the toilet, also need help changing, duh, and people know that. I have a friend meeting the afore mentioned criteria, and his aid is female. Now he's even married, and she changes him a lot, I assume, in public, too. I'd like to see someone try to stop her from changing her wheelchair using, IC, husband. She'd put a foot somewhere feet don't belong. Now, what would be illegal is using a Changing Place without medical need for diapers, or, I suppose, a place to change, for disabled people, IC included, who are potty-trying, since that's who the Changing Places are meant for. I doubt anyone would be interested in proving you a faker, but it's uncouth to use any kinda disabled toilet you don't need.
Faking disability isn't nice. Use a regular gender-appropriate toilet, and do it yourself, or with a caretaker of the same gender as you, since, I assume, medical need doesn't cancel that out for you, and you'd be fine.

I believe it should be alright for us to change as we technically add to the numbers & make companies think twice on accessibility for all. As we need to nappy change too. & not all disabilities are visable. I have Asperger's & wear for comfort so I use them so I can stay healthy down there. it is there for the benefit of those who need it. Technically by wearing you need it. Just leave it in a useable condition afterwards. As for someone changing you it's the same as with a disabled adult. We need help.
 

SpAzpieSweeTot

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I believe it should be alright for us to change as we technically add to the numbers & make companies think twice on accessibility for all. As we need to nappy change too. & not all disabilities are visable. I have Asperger's & wear for comfort so I use them so I can stay healthy down there. it is there for the benefit of those who need it. Technically by wearing you need it. Just leave it in a useable condition afterwards. As for someone changing you it's the same as with a disabled adult. We need help.
Look, dude. You're getting in this with, my hand to Elohim, the last person on earth you want to get in this with! My adoptive mom and I are Aspie. Mom has been walking around Aspergerian for 49 years, and still isn't diagnosed, because people have preconceived ideas about what autism is. How's that for invisible? Maybe my sister is, too, but, we aren't really sure. My sister, (the 1 who we're not sure is on the spectrum,) my stepdad, and I are all cerebrally palsied. My mom had to have her head damn near taken off, twice, for neck surgery she wouldn't have needed if she hadn't been taking care of the 2 of us who use wheelchairs, so, don't hide behind Asperger's being almost invisible. I'm the last 1 you need to educate.

Hell, ASD is invisible to outsiders, but I ain't an outsider, but people see my cerebral palsy, and use it to try to explain my Asperger's traits, so I don't have to be diagnosed with more than 1 thing, and they end up ignoring my Aspie traits. Again, well acquainted with invisible disabilities, and how utterly invisible they can make effected people feel. Don't pull that stuff on me. Go find a sucker. You're preaching to the choir. I know what invisible disabilities, as well as visible ones, are!

I also know enough about Asperger's to know you shouldn't be using it to justify using a Changing Place you don't medically need.
I know 1 Aspie on here who is unable to poop on the toilet, and not for lack of trying, so, he's justified, but one of a very few high-functioning Spectrumites who would be. I'm not saying Asperger's doesn't explain it, but, for the majority of Aspies, it doesn't.

This isn't about wearing and using in public. It's about perfectly continent people, using changing areas intended for IC people. So, which is it? Are you wearing for comfort, or does it help you stay healthy down there? Also, I don't know what you mean by that. Do you have the words to tell me? I get it if you don't. I suppose it could be both, but I don't know what stay healthy down there means for you. That's also your personal, private, medical info, so you don't have to tell me.

I'm also confused by you saying, "as for someone changing you it's the same as with a disabled adult. We need help."

You use being Aspie, or, heaven forbid, since it's not a disability, AB/Little, or DL, as justification in one breath, then say it's no different than changing a disabled adult, so, are you disabled, in such a way as to diagnosably need a Changing Place, or not? I bet I know.
Who are the, "we," who need help changing? Do you mean AB/Littles, and DLs? AB/Little/DL is not a disability, you know it, and the sane ones of us don't want it classified that way! AB/Littles, and DLs may enjoy help changing, but they don't need it, unless they're diagnosably unable to do it themselves! It's there for those who need it medically.

Wearing for AB/Little, or DL reasons doesn't give people asshole passes. If you need diapers for non medical reasons, I understand. I do,
:hug: but those special changing areas are for people with medical needs. If the needs aren't medical, change at home, or in a regular toilet.

Though I do rather passionately disagree with you on this issue, I hope we still can be friends.
:hug:


On kinda a side note, do you mean no different than a mobility disabled adult, because I think I can see where the miscommunication was, if that's the case?

 
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PaddedDeist

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Getting a bit heated in here now.

This could be something like the handicap parking placards here in the USA. You are only allowed to park in those places if you have a placard or if your state has disabled plates. But there are those who may have a temporary injury or another condition and they have trouble understanding why they got ticked for parking without a placard. Temporary placards are available in my state and all it requires is to get a doctor's note and a trip to the DMV--OK, the DMV trip can be nightmarish. In my state there is no charge either.

Now even though I certainly qualified and even when I had my note, I could not park in those spaces until I got the placard. I had to suck it up and park in the regular places until I was legal.

Now I don't know what you have to do to get access to the Changing Places, but perhaps a simple card that was easily obtainable with a doctor's note would work. It's not so fun for the voluntary wearers but they don't need the extra support equipment that the physically disabled need. I don't have such places near me so I suck it up and change while standing. If there were places nearby, I could likely get permission but if I could safely change elsewhere, I'd try to change in that place.
 

SpAzpieSweeTot

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Thank you, PaddedDiest, for understanding. You can get into a Changing Place by having a special key, or asking special permission. Even if you're only IC, you can use one. No mobility disability is required, but, from what I read, if you're only IC, and not visibly disabled, and you lose your key, you gotta do some uncomfortable explaining.

"Oh, I don't look disabled? I see, ruler of the disability universe. Well, what is it you think disabled looks like, because, you
don't look insensitive, and yet, here we are, and even though I seem normal, whatever the heck that is, my bladder, and/or bowels, don't bloody work?! Do you feel like the contents of my nappy now? Good! You should!"

If one parks in a handicap parking spot,
without a placard or plate, or in the loading zone (the lines next to the spot, that are the same color as the spot), he or she isn't nice. If one doesn't need a handicap bathroom stall because she is disabled, but, instead uses it to try to train her hellian child, damn near making me wet myself, then tries to justify her reasoning to me, the girl writhing in painful bladder spasms, in her wheelchair, without the choice to use another stall, thereby ticking off Momzilla, and me, I can't save her, nor do I have any interest in doing so, and I'd be just as angry if a guy did the same, and if we vaycay to the U.K., and anyone's non IC ass delays my sister's IC ass getting changed, well, Momzilla, and older sister-zilla will have a word with said person. It'll be very hard for us to remember the Non-Aggression Principle, because faking disability, in this case, IC, is illegal!
I shall reiterate.
How is it helpful for non disabled (including non IC) people to use any kind of disabled toilet?. . . If you choose to use your nappy only recreationally, you choose to change in a regular toilet, or at home! End of rant.
 
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siysiy

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Hi

I am coming from two points of view.

As a support worker looking after people with learning disabilities and as a big bro to little Isaac.

Some of the disable toilets are disgusting, Ok you can get a wheel chair in them but that’s about it. Seriously eww!!! :wallbash:

Standard accessible toilets just do not meet the needs of all people with a disability. :no:

People with learning disabilities, as well people with other physical disabilities often need extra equipment and space to allow them to use the toilets safely and comfortably. These needs are met by Changing Places toilets.

Each Changing Places toilet provides:
The right equipment
- a height adjustable adult-sized changing bench
- a tracking hoist system, or mobile hoist if this is not possible.
Enough space
- adequate space in the changing area for the disabled person and up to two carers
- a centrally placed toilet with room either side
- a screen or curtain to allow some privacy.
A safe and clean environment
- wide tear off paper roll to cover the bench
- a large waste bin for disposable pads
- a non-slip floor.

Little Issac and my self are part of a lobbing group to have accessible toilets kept to a better standard and for the increases of changing places in all manger public places like train stations, shopping mails, big tourist actions,
one of the things we do to increase awareness is openly ask the staff in these places “where there changing place is.” Not where there disable toilet is. This is to increase awareness of these facilities.

I am so proud of my little bro :hug: as is not at all embossed to ask which does drawer attrition to the fact that his underwear is more bulky shall we say. :sweatdrop:

Research has found that over a quarter of a million disabled people, including those with learning disabilities, do not have access to public toilet facilities that meet their needs.

In the UK the number of people who would benefit from a Changing Places toilet would include people with learning disabilities, people profound and multiple disabilities and the older people

The number of people with complex disabilities is growing – we are all living longer, meaning many more people are likely to need access to a Changing Places toilet in the future.

There is a report by Professor James Hogg, at the University of Dundee. Read the full research (PDF) hope the link works.

When I am out padded up I can use “normal toilets” to change as I can use the standing changing method, but this is not always the case as some of us are all fingers and thumbs, and they find that laying down the way to go.

They may not be a wheel chair used but these focality are for them as will.

I once supported someone that used a Colostomy bag, we were out and about when the thing started to come away, I was so glad of a changing place that day as I was able to fit a new bag on him and this was so much easier with him laying down.

If you would like to help with the pressure group for changing places
http://www.changing-places.org/get_involved.aspx

Hope this has answered the question of whether it is legal to support someone to change in the UK

I find it hard to understand any care provider that would use this excuse hinder people accessing the community

I honestly thought that institutional care had more less been stabbed out but maybe not

Siysiy

 

SpAzpieSweeTot

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Siysiy, I didn't mean to leave you with the impression that I thought that only mobility disabled + IC people could use those Changing Places. I said any IC person could. Lots of things can cause it. Being so mentally retarded, and no, I don't mean it as a slur, so, I refuse to feel bad for using a diagnostic term, just because it's outdated, can make someone IC. Untrained kids over 5, with no other problems, are often considered functionally IC, until they can see a counselor, to see what psychological issues are causing it. Let's hope, in that case, someone in power doesn't decide the parents are inept. Come on. A simple LD doesn't cause IC. It'd have to be functional IC, due to very severe ADHD, or, a full-on developmental disability, not a simple LD. As I've said, for most, even Asperger's doesn't equate to IC. For some it does, but not most. No IC, no business in a Changing Place, unless you're a helper for said IC person, was my point. I also don't want AB/Little, or DL, in themselves, to be seen as disabilities. They're not.

For those who will ream me for saying mentally retarded, my sister went to a preschool run by a group called something to the effect of, "The Association of Retarded Citizens." Makes sense they'd not be offended by their own name. They haven't changed it yet, so, I guess not.

I didn't say anything about institutional care. Who did? Oh, the O.P. Never mind.
 
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Pete67

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Hi all, great conversation going on here, I'm in UK also Aspergers,,, just to say in UK there is the RADAR system where eligible people get a key that opens any designated disabled loo. But many restroom suites have a dedicated disabled loo in addition to both gents and ladies, that aren't locked, it's kind of a convention that able-bodied just don't use them unless the usual one is closed for cleaning or maintenance. It's certainly ok for a carer to accompany a caree to help change in private,,,
 

Angellothefox

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An odd thing to poll about if you want a correct answer rather than an opinion?

I doubt anyone using a disabled toilet would be challenged as to their exact need as many issues are not physically visible, and most staff in public places know that.

In fact I can't see why there would be any issue with someone changing in any public facility unless you were overtly indulging in fetish-type behaviour and it strayed into public indecency!

Yes and no. Yes, it is my fetish but sometimes thinking about diaper changes or looking at diaper stuff does not do that much. Sometimes yes it can and it may be a little embarrassing but it is a nappy change not "Oh what is that, would you like me to help you with that!?" or bondage with dirty diapers. XD! Just a simple change in a public toilet cubical or disabled toilets. Changing stroke getting changed. Nothing too fetishy just a simple get changed. If that was the case then the incontence people that do need changing that also have a nappy fetish would be arrested or be committing a offence.
 

SpAzpieSweeTot

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. . . If that was the case then the incontinent people that do need changing that also have a nappy fetish would be arrested, or be committing an offense.
See, now, you've poked the bear. No the heck we wouldn't. IC is a disability involving the diagnosable functional need for one or another disabled toilet. A diaper fetish doesn't matter at that point, because functional need for that place outweighs the fetish, unless said fetishist was doing overtly, meaning open to view or knowledge; not concealed or secret, sexual stuff in the stall, which isn't legal anyway, because it's indecent, no matter what anyone's functional needs are.

I know you have Asperger's. At least I could swear I've seen you mention it on other threads. Am I right, Angellothefox?

Either way, unless it impairs your ability to hold it, let it out, or use the toilet,
you have some other disability that does cause a functional need for said places, or, no other stall is open, you're not legal to use a Changing place, or regular disabled toilet. Good thing no one would care to prove you a faker. Helping someone with a functional need for said places qualifies the helper to help, not to use the facility for himself, or herself.

Being diagnosed with a disability isn't enough. Diagnosable functional needs decide what's legal. E.g., severe, life threatening depression is a disability, but without functional impairment in holding it in, letting it out, or using the toilet, severe life threatening depression doesn't warrant a changing place, or a regular disabled toilet. Now, if said severely depressed person had a Service Dog, also known as an Assistance Dog, task trained to prevent self-harm, and the dog and handler couldn't fit in a regular stall, then yes, said person is legal, because he or she has a functional need for the dog, and they can't both fit in a regular stall, so, the severely depressed person is prevented from using the regular toilet, especially considering he or she might be more inclined to self harm, somewhere private, like a loo. See?

As an example of functional needs, my stepdad has CP, but, in disaster evacuation, he goes last of the 3 cerebrally palsied people in my family, because his functional needs are least among us, but, if he got severely injured, and sis and I were fine, his functional needs would have changed, and he'd go first. See? He's
also got a disabled placard, because walking gets hard for him in rainy, snowy, or any kinda slippery weather, otherwise, he only uses it if he's injured, or has me, or sis, in the car, since we need a loading zone, no matter what.

He may use a disabled toilet, but only on a very bad day, because he usually doesn't need a rail, but, if his functional needs change, to the point where he needs a rail, e.g., if the floor in the regular toilet were slippery, or, he needed a sink he could reach sitting, a mirror in the right spot, anything a regular disabled toilet provides, then he's legal. He would qualify for a Changing Place though, were he to have an accident, no matter if he needed anything else a disabled toilet provided, or not, because he has bladder spasms. See the functional need for 1 over the other?

For the record, even though I'm IC, it's mild, so, unless I had a real accident, I wouldn't use a Changing Place. I'm also a Little bABy. I'd know if I had an, "on purpose," and, in that case, wouldn't use any disabled toilet, because my conscience would stop me! I'd go home and change then.

Now, no one should even try to stop you from changing in a regular toilet, and throwing the nappies in the bin. Dirty disposable nappies go in bins. You're not hurting anyone by using and changing in public, but, I don't care if you're changing your butt, or doin' the bloomin' hokey pokey! Y'ain't doin' anything legally, in a Changing Place, or a handicap stall, unless you have a diagnosable functional need to be there, you're helping someone who does, or no other stall is open, so, stay outa loos you don't need!
 
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RebeccaHime

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No, it is not illegal. While i dont identify as incontinent i dont have the strongest bladder, so often keep a diaper in my bag if theres a chance there will be something coming up where a toilet isnt near, it helps prevent an accident.

Plenty of times i've been caught getting changed in public toilets.

Disabled toilets around the UK have been having new signs put on saying not every disability is visible also.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

SpAzpieSweeTot

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No, it is not illegal. . .
Agreed. As I've said before, simply changing in public isn't illegal.
. . .While I don't identify as incontinent, I don't have the strongest bladder, so often keep a diaper in my bag if theres a chance there will be something coming up where a toilet isnt near, it helps prevent an accident.
This worries me for you. IC can be caused by nothing more than weak muscles, and is nothing more than involuntarily bladder or bowel voiding into clothes. If you're having to work so hard to avoid accidents, you may have an issue. Rather you identify as IC, or not, you may actually be.:hug:
Plenty of times i've been caught getting changed in public toilets.
Ouch, I'm sorry. Maybe seek diagnosis?
Disabled toilets around the UK have been having new signs put on saying not every disability is visible also.
:lol::deadhorse:Again, well acquainted with disabilities, visible, and not. Don't have a problem with anyone with a functional need for any kinda disabled toilet, using 1. My problem is with fakers, and, again, not every disability, visible or not, carries with it the functional need for either kinda disabled toilet.
No, it is not illegal. . .
Changing, or, for that matter, "going," somewhere 1 doesn't belong, certainly can be, because, disability, alone, doesn't equate to functional need for any kinda disabled toilet, and faking a functional need for 1 is illegal, as is using 1 without functional need for it, when another stall is open. It's just, no one has an interest in prosecuting it, because, short of dragging the faker to court, and going through his or her medical records, it's too difficult to prove. Fakers, have a conscience!

Assuming you're being truthful, and I'm not calling names. I just don't know you.:hug: Since you're not faking, you're fine.

If no other stall is open, anyone can use 1, as, "going," is an everybody thing.



 
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