turn back the pendulum tick, tock, tick

[the0silent0alchemist]

well recently got a book called 'for this i am grateful' composed of smallexcerptes from everyday people across the U,S, one said:

[When i arrve to pick up my daughter from day care, she comes running to me saying, "mommy, momy!" and then embreces me with a big hug. i know that wont happen much longer, so i am grateful everytime it happens ]

and also when once i was viewing mandi's profile i saw this message from pramrider.. and if i may quote it
(pramrider i apologize if you didn want this shown to a wider audience and if you want ill remove it)

"Mandi,

I just wanted to mention how cute your current avatar photo is. It reminds me so much of my daughter when she was around 2 to 3 years old. She had a pink tutu (think she still has it stashed away in her closet) and loved to dance around in it. We have some pics of her dancing with it on. She wore it until she was at an age where it was stretching about as far as it would stretch when she tried to put it on. Lots of times I wish she and her younger brother were still little. I miss those days when we would all play together. Thanks for bringing back some fond memories with your photo. "

~Pramrider

which made me start thinking... reading things like that make me wonder, like and i wouldnt mind if each of the elder members, those like ayanna pramrider, and dogboy i think it was, those who have grown up, gotten married and had kids, could tell me what they think, how as time passes, as it does for all of us, how maybe weve already outlived those sorts of years, and to keep wishing for them and acting like we do is maybe. something we shouldnt be doing... sort of like were cheating.. just like the idea that tying to keep ones skin and all that looking young with all those beauty treatments and stuff...

i know that above doesnt make much sense but i really found it hard to put that into words and im feeling confused, (to the point that i am admittdly sucking my pacifier to aleviate the tension ) but mostly for those that reply, would lke to hear from those who have many years behind them, as i said earlier ayanna and pramrider.. it would REALLY put my mind at ease.

 

[Pramrider]

SDA, I'll be happy to make a more detailed reply a little bit later. I'm right in the middle of work right now and don't want to throw a rushed reply together. I need to give it a little more thought before answering, but wanted to let you know I wasn't ignoring your post. Maybe Dogboy, Ayanna, or any other members getting on into middle age will chime in by the time I get my thoughts together and have time to post.

~Pramrider

 

[the0silent0alchemist]

that is perfectly fne, as long as i EVENTUALLY get some sort of answer, not trying to force your hands though... even if any person does NOT want to they are free to choose

 

[Pojo]

I know I'm not an elder or anything...But I just wanted to ask if you got your title name from the Bleach manga

 

[dogboy]

This is something my wife and I have talked about many times. When you are young and your family is young, you are so busy trying to keep up, not just with them, but with the demands of your job, growth in your career, finding the money to pay the bills, shopping, and all. I would come home from work tired, we'd have dinner together as a family, then get the kids ready for bed, and either my wife or I would read to them. Often I would start to go to sleep, and they would wake me up and say, "finish reading daddy!"

But that said, those were the best days of our lives. When we moved to our present location, 28 years ago, we adopted my wife's nephew, who now is our oldest. He was 12 at the time. Our son was 4 1/2 and our daughter was 1 1/2. Because they were young, you had, and this sounds terrible on the surface, control over them. But by that I mean, they were always there, always an immediate part of your life. You watched them play, argue, eat and sleep. You held their hand when they hurt, and later you dealt with their problems interacting with others as they got older. We provided a world where they were safe, and always loved.

I've been thinking about this very thing right now because my wife's parents had, and still do, a cottage in Ontario, Canada, which we went to every summer for three weeks. We would pack the van, along with the dog, and up we'd go. Now our children, and their children are going, and we have to stay behind. My wife is on dialysis, and is bound to a wheel chair or her electric cart, because of diabetic foot disease. It is hard to let go, and so you do live inside your good memories.

I'm lucky in that I'm still quite healthy. I can take my wife where she needs to go, and we do go out and do things like looking in stores, going to restaurants, etc. As for appearances and trying to look younger, I don't bother. I am who I am. I am attracted to youth, and I do sometimes act less maturely when at home, and when the mood suits. My wife probably married me for my free spirit, and knew of my attraction to youth and youthful things. But most of the time I'm simply me, hard working, and a responsible person in our community. I have a good sense of humor, and I enjoy life.

I think I said on another post just today, and maybe that's what made you think of this topic, that I don't like aging, I don't particularly want to age, but it is part of the natural order of things. I quoted part of Ecclesiastes which says to all things there is a purpose, a time for living and a time for dying. It's the everything in between which gives our lives meaning. To me, having a family was my meaning. I believe that marrying my wife saved my life, because I think I would have been very self destructive if I hadn't. I had a friend in college who was an absolute genius, in general and in music. He was also the most promiscuous person I ever met as well, and he tragically died on the back of a motorcycle with his gay friend in San Fransisco. What a loss to the world, if you could have known him. For me, I left college and chose another path, and have never looked back. I think that's the answer to your question, that one should not look back and regret over the things not done, or that it's mostly all over, but look forward.

This weekend we will be with our daughter and son in law at a local lake where we've rented a house and boat. We'll have a great time visiting with them and our new grand son. The relationship is completely different, and that's what life is supposed to be about, changes. With changes comes growth, and we become bigger and more whole as people. Unlike so many people on this site, I don't believe our lives end here, but go on after death. If that's the case becoming old is only temporary. I believe that everything I do here has some greater importance in the after life. That's why I believe it's important to be a whole person, not just someone who is one dimensional, whether it's an adult baby, or making a lot of money and buying everything that was ever manufactured.

Aging does suck. Just ask my wife. But it's part of who we are, and a natural part of the life journey. I don't believe it's the end, but the beginning of an incredible adventure. I hope that helps.

S. D. A., don't forget to include Trevor. There's a smart guy if ever there was one. I enjoy both his and Pramrider's insight.

 

[Pramrider]

OK, S.D.A., let me see how well I can express myself in answer to your post. I'm not all that good at it either, so please bear with me...

First of all, dogboy, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your reply.

Myself, I tend to be a very sentimental person, admittedly to an EXTREME at times. Seeing the avatar photo Mandi currently uses reminded me so much of my daughter when she was that age - even down to the color and length of the little girl's hair - I just had to tell her how much it brought back memories for me in the message you quoted. (Just to set your mind at ease, my profile is open for viewing, so there was nothing really private about it for me to be upset about it's being posted.) I do miss my children being little very much at times. Mandi's "Daddy's Little Girl" story actually brought tears to my eyes at the end. It was so real to me, and I felt like I was the Daddy in the story. (Mandi, didn't get a chance to tell you before, but that was a beautifully written story! :smile: ) That being said, I know it's not good to dwell in the past all the time, especially at the expense of the present. Dwelling on fond memories from time to time is OK, but you can never turn back the clock and one shouldn't constantly live in the past. Your post was actually a good reminder for me because I tend to forget that. I should enjoy each day of the present with loved ones, and appreciate all the years we still have left together as a family.

If I could go back and relive the wonderful years when our kids were growing up I'd try to do things a little different. You see, each time one of them would pass from one phase of their young childhood life to another, I'd find myself missing the previous phase terribly. Sometimes I'd even suffer mild depression spells over it. That's being overly sentimental, but that's who I am. I knew inside they were growing up, too quickly for me, and I desperately wanted to hang onto each earlier phase instead of enjoying the present one to the full with them. Looking back, that was wrong on my part!

Would I love to have one of those precious days back to relive? Absolutely! But, would I want to erase the last 20+ years and start all over again? No, I really don't think so. Some things would still remain the same. As in dogboy's comments, I'd still have to work and take care of other chores around the home, so available time spent with the children wouldn't change all that much. They would still grow up again WAY too fast for me. Plus, my wife and I are very proud of how our son and daughter have turned out. They managed to avoid the pitfalls so many teens get caught by which end up messing up their lives. They've grown up to be respectful and responsible young adults - something we're both very, VERY thankful for. I wouldn't want to start all over and the outcome possibly not be as positive next time around.

I think one reason I tried to hang onto the past was because I was 35 when our daughter was born and just shy of 39 when our son came along. By your mid/late 30s time is going too fast as it is for you personally. Have children later in life and they seem to grow up all that much faster, too. You almost feel cheated out of time with them while they're little. I really noticed this when our son was born. It was only 3.5 years later than our daughter's birth, but his baby and toddler days seemed so much shorter than hers in comparison. I do feel I missed out on a lot of time with them.

However, I count myself fortunate to still have them home with us. We can continue having the same closeness as a family we've always had. We usually take an annual vacation to the ocean. It's enjoyable for all of us because we can get to play and have all kinds of fun together again. It is like turning back the clock in a way. Our kids have never been anxious to rush through life, and enjoy doing the things they like to do - some even still bordering on childish. I know there are parents who can't wait to boot their grown kids out of the house, but we don't feel that way at all. This is their home as long as they want to stay.

Not sure if what I've written covers exactly what you were asking. Please let me know if it didn't and I'll try to be more to the point next time. I'm good at rambling on sometimes, not knowing whether I'm making any sense.

The only other thing I can add is, it's normal to reminisce over past events in your own life and lives of close family members. That's why people take photos and movies while their kids are growing up - to have something to look back on with fondness, something to help keep those memories alive and sharp in their minds as they get older. No, as dogboy mentioned, I don't like aging either. But the aging process doesn't have to affect the younger person we are within or the love we feel and show for our family. You might no longer be able to pick your kids up, hug, kiss, and tickle them, showing them love as you did when they were little, but you can still show them you love them just the same in other ways. They're still the same persons they were when little. The love you feel for each other is one thing that doesn't ever have to change.

~Pramrider

 

[the0silent0alchemist]

I know I'm not an elder or anything...But I just wanted to ask if you got your title name from the Bleach manga

yes i did, for those unfamilier, the phrase 'turn back the pendulum' is the title for a short 'prequel-arc' for the japanese manga (comic book), "bleach" which went back 100 years before the normal timeline began to relive the events which occured that instigated the current plot. i chose the title for two reasons, one the conept of the pendulum very well represents the passage of time, and now i realisethat the manga it is associated with is weel suited since it is about the afterlife and passng through time and the arc itself is very much parallel to us *b's in that it relives times that have long past, thus 'turning back' the pendlum, or rewinding the passage of time.

and when i was making names, the ones i mentioned were simply examples. it was you three of ayanna pramrider and dogboy that i could recall that were in that particular perod of your lives that i was after mostly but those who wish to offer insights are MORE than welcome.


but the very embarrasing thing is that as of writing this im not exactly sure what i wanted answered exactly. i dont think i wil know..
like i said its very hard to put it in any sort of concise form... maybe its all because i feel alot of turmoil about being a TB, how theres such a difference betweenthe fantasy and reality, and how when trying to be both it feels wrong sometimes... like when im starkly in a nappy, wth my pacfer, in front of my mirror, i get this feeling.. that i shouldnt be doing this sort of stuff..

*sighs* i dunno anymore, its pretty confusing for me even, let alone you guys who are trying to answer...

oh and dogbiy, funnily enough i only realized that OTHER thread about a similar concept existed after i started this one and i was thinking, S**t this wont look good

 

[the0silent0alchemist]

.. wow, id have thought more would have seen his and posted by now.. meh

 

[Mr Alex]

Interesting.

 

[timmywimmy]

SDA, I think I know what you're asking about.

As a closeted *b, I wondered how I would feel when we had our first child. She wasn't planned - nothing in my life is really planned! - she was a happy accident. When my wife told me she was pregnant we weren't married, and had only been together for a little more than a year, but I was already sure that we were and would be happy together. Anyway, it never occurred to me to be anything other than happy - I was surprised as well; I realised that I had assumed I was never going to be a father.

The questions I asked myself were these. When we have a real baby, will I feel jealous? Will I wish somehow that I was in her place? And: will the experience of being the father of a baby somehow remove from this curse (and secret pleasure) - or this pleasure (and secret curse) - of *dult babyness? Will it - for want of a better word - cure me? When I see my child as she grows, won't it constantly remind me how unnatural my *b side is?

I found the first six months of being a father difficult. Our lives changed completely - of course they did. She was a rather colicky baby, cried a lot at night, and slept in short bursts. I found that I was never jealous - I realised that as an *b what I wanted was precisely the tension between the desire and the reality, not the reality itself. In other words, I found that as an *b I wanted to be someone who knew he was an adult, but was treated as a baby. I realised more than I ever had before that it's the distance between these two things that generates the excitement of this particular set of desires. I realised that watching her grow and change was exciting and touching, and I realised too that I had been afraid that somehow my *b side would poison that pleasure every parent (who loves their children) takes in watching their child grow up. I realised that these ordinary pleasures were untouched by my sexuality, and that from that point of view I was actually an undamaged personality - or as undamaged as anybody else ... changing her nappies didn't make me fantasise. It didn't make me jealous. Kissing her and cuddling her and carrying her around just made me happy.

But now I come to what I think you're really asking about. Did the experience of becoming a father make me realise that it was time to let go of my *b desires? Did it make those desires less intense or pressing? And the answer is no. I didn't have time or opportunity to do anything about them for almost a year, but the desire and the fantasies never went away. Twelve years later we have three daughters, and opportunities for privacy are still thin on the ground. But when they come the desire for *b clothes and behaviour still jump into the foreground of my mind. I must admit I wish they didn't! But they do.

The whole point about these desires, in my experience, is that they arise very shortly after the gates of babyhood have closed behind us. They arise before we can understand the implications of these desires. We have no idea who we're opening the door to - why should we, at the age of six or seven? But to get to the heart of the question I think you're asking - the sense in which there is a time or a season for babyish behaviour - well, I think it's precisely because that time has passed that we first experience these desires. They never go away, and the task we all face is learning to accommodate and understand them. Yes, I'm 45 now, and looking in a mirror when I've got myself dressed up is only going to get more ludicrous as time passes! But - let's face it - rationality is hardly what all this is about.

Reading around on this site it's clear that there are several different ways and levels in which the people who come here have come to terms with being *b or dl. SOme people are quite civil-rightsy about it - mostly the younger ones. This is my sexuality and I'm not ashamed, because I know I do no harm. And some others - like myself - remain basically unwilling to reveal this side of themselves to any significant other. I think both of these positions are respectable and have everything to do with an individual's rights, both to a sexuality, and to privacy. (I would never, ever approve of anything that forced an individual out of their particular closet.) The one position to resist, and to avoid, is the conviction that this particular fetish - or whatever you call it - is shameful and filthy, something to be agonised and guilt-ridden about. We all have to be responsible and consensual. We must never impose. We can request, and then respect whatever answer we receive. Speaking as an *b father, I would never reveal this side of myself to my children - or, at least, never until they are well into their twenties!

TO put it as simply as possible. Being an *b was not a choice. I became one too early in my life for it to be a choice. But here I am. Gay people don't choose to be gay; trans-sexuals don't choose to be uncomfortable in the bodies they were born to. As far as most questions of sexual identity are concerned, choice is a fable, a foolish and damaging myth. Questions of sexual action, however, are choices; and as long as I make sure that my behaviour does no damage to anyone else, I have nothing to be ashamed about. I'm sure, SDA, that you have nothing to be ashamed of. I'm also sure that your *b/dl desires won't go away. But you mustn't let them make you, in and of themselves, sad, or fearful, or ashamed.

 

[the0silent0alchemist]

timmywimmy i give you a heartfelt thank you, your esponse hit the nail on the head, as accurately as could be.