This ''arms race'' is getting out of hand.

[Nowididit]

How about the fact that none of our diapers have good leak-proofness around the legs, regardless of brand. Absorbency & wicking only go so far because nothing can absorb fast enough to cope with flooding. There simply is not enough unpadded plastic in the crotch/leg area to reach up & seal against the perineum/leg creases. There simply ain't. It's why medical diapers leak, too, because those companies assume most of their market are sedentary/bedridden folk. I'm not bedridden...is anyone here?

This obsession with high-capacity needs to take a back seat until leakage is addressed because capacity does not at all adequately address leaks due to voiding & body position/activity. Attack, even win that battle and most of the Diaper War is won. I just wish I had money to lay on that bet.

Um...wasn't the introduction of standing leak guards supposed to address the issue of leaks around the legs. Now we have tall standing leak guards in our diapers and YOU'RE STILL LEAKING......lol!
Yeah standing leak guard are supposed to contain the wet and mess.....ever had a messy blowout?....lol!!

Medical grade diapers like all things invented and tested are never tested on the actual user and have factual feedback. It's just a bunch of suits sitting in an office deciding what the market wants based on feedback from non wearers and how much money they'll make thru anecdotal public user manipulation. It's like why don't they look to the actual community of recreational wearers? Instead their feedback comes from medical professionals that apply the product and not use it themselves.
I mean seriously, we ABDL'ers know our shit when it comes to diapers.

Like how about improving the elastic leg gathers and tall standing leak guards by using a less stretchy elastic that naturally curves with the crotch and creates a seal instead of stretching out and going flat against the body or sagging with the diaper as it gets wet.

Just a thought.

 

[BabyJ316]

Agreed 100%. For example the 5 drop method and other ratings have no standard. For contex Depend says that their real fit is good for maximum absorption. Putting aside if you like their product or not just look at how the describe the rest of their line. Their RealFit and tabbed briefs which clearly have different ISO ratings both have the same word "Maximum" written on them, but it in fact gets worse... They have their Night Defence Briefs which are self rated as "Maximum" yet in their briefs (pull ups line) they have Maximum and then Overnight and also Ultimate which are placed as higher absorption than the Maximum. So which is it? Do you have a pull up that outperforms your overnight tape diaper which is already labeled as "Maximum?"

For ABDL and even regular regional brands we tend to use the ISO because it gives a clear standard measurement for comparison. It isn't intended to be viewed as "real world capacity" and I am not aware that any diaper brand would say this. What it does represent is that the higher the number the more it will absorb and generally also be thicker. The ABDL community by large wants the thickest diapers that hold the most. Trust me, there is a reason we only have 1 5000ml product and the rest are higher. There is a reason that we keep updating our products to go from 5000 to 6000 and then 7000.... because they sell better when they are thicker and can hold more. It really is that simple. I have over 8 years in the market doing this as my full time job. When I tell you that a thicker diaper sells better and than a thinner diaper will sell worse, it isn't a guess. We have made thinner diapers, and they didn't sell well at all. Not even like "oh just a little slower.." magnitudes slower. This isn't even just us, look at other brands who have dropped or updated thinner products. I would love to have a range of products in various thicknesses and so forth, but even if that is what people say they want, they purchase far differently and that is what companies look at. We have made several things that many people asked for, and they didn't sell well so we dropped them. It might not be the answer some people want but it is the truth for now.

There's no value in the lower capacity options at Tykables. At case price, the difference between Every Day and Ultra is only ~$0.60/diaper. Of course people are going to pay the extra few bucks for the more premium option, they would be kind of dumb not to. I'm assuming the shells are the cost driver, but as long as that dynamic exists the premium option will always win. That doesn't mean that a budget option could not thrive.

 

[Nowididit]

I enjoy wetting, and afterwards the feeling of being a bit wet, and to wet once or twice more is nice too. But after that, I’m ready to change, have a shower and if I’m in a period of extended wearing, it’s lovely to be clean and dry until I wet myself again.

For me, to be absolutely soaked and sit around for hours in huge amounts of urine just doesn’t have any appeal at all. I guess we’re all different, and there’s obviously a market for nappies such as these.

Ditto.
Are we long lost brothers from different mothers? Lol.

 

[todaler]

There's no value in the lower capacity options at Tykables. At case price, the difference between Every Day and Ultra is only ~$0.60/diaper. Of course people are going to pay the extra few bucks for the more premium option, they would be kind of dumb not to. I'm assuming the shells are the cost driver, but as long as that dynamic exists the premium option will always win. That doesn't mean that a budget option could not thrive.

What do you think the price needs to be to do what you are saying... Landed to you the customer per diaper in the case price.

 

[BunnyFofo]

Man this thread is so annoying. I'm so sick of pointing this out: the ISO absorbancy MUST be higher than any amount of wetting done, or the diaper will leak. This is true even for the thinnest institutional medical diapers.

Then I see statements like... they're impractical for the incontinent. No.
First, they're ABDL diapers. Practicality is not a major design factor.
Practical adult diapers aren't made out of shiny plastic and don't have babyish illustrations on them.

Second, no one is forcing you to use diapers to capacity. You're not even "wasting" the extra capacity either, since a more absorbent diaper will tend to be drier on skin and less likely to leak. All this talk about waste on the skin for hours and whatnot... Rubbish! No one is forcing you to stay in a diaper until it leaks! Even if you can't stand an even slightly wet diaper and need to change immediately, more absorbancy will help you feel dryier and not leak.
I wouldn't recommend 7000ml diapers in that case, but even a 5000ml or 3500ml will be more than what you need.

It's entirely up to you what you want to wear based on how comfortable you are and how often you change. No one can tell you what diaper is definitely best for you, they can just point you in the right direction. So please, don't tell me I'm just wrong for liking very absorbent diapers! Especially not using nonsense arguments.

If you don't find any benefit in x000ml+ diapers, then don't buy them. No one is forcing you to. There are plenty of less absorbent medical and ABDL diapers for you to use. Some perfectly OK medical diapers from Tena and Seni cost around only $1 each.

You don't have to pick a side either. I have BetterDry *day* for when I want a thin diaper, I also have the normal BetterDry, and I also have the maximum absorbancy Tykables, ABU and Rearz diapers. They're all good and fun and practical. BetterDry doesn't give out ISO numbers from what I can tell, but I would guess BetterDry day are no more than 2000ml. That's fine! It doesn't mean more is pointless.

 

[BabyJ316]

What do you think the price needs to be to do what you are saying... Landed to you the customer per diaper in the case price.

I don't know. I don't know the expenses, or the margins you have to meet. For daily use, I have a quality med brand arrive at my door, 40 diapers for $68 all in. Their ISO is 4000, I believe, and they reliably hold 1100 in real-world use.. They're a big company, though, so I know they have scaling advantages.

I love Tykables and Blue Cammies are my favorite diaper. I am not criticizing your business, yall are amazing. I just disagree that there isn't a market for a less premium product, but maybe it can't be profitable at a boutique scale?

 

[Abdlchriscrinkle]

Man this thread is so annoying. I'm so sick of pointing this out: the ISO absorbancy MUST be higher than any amount of wetting done, or the diaper will leak.

Annoying eh? See BobbieSueEllen's post #35 of this thread, it outlines all of what you're discussing.

Also, absorption is very circumstantial and subjective. Adding more absorbency does not always mean leak free. Again see post #35.

Then I see statements like... they're impractical for the incontinent.

What I meant, and I'm sure what others meant was sitting in a soiled diaper for any length of time is not something most incontinent people desire, due to skin breakdown complications.
practicality meaning discretion...

Especially not using nonsense arguments.

Everyone here is free to their opinions, including yourself. But, please don't go labeling established contributor's input as ''nonsense arguments'', when it is you that actually seems one sided and biased in this.
Calling opinions as arguements implies that it is a debate, which I absolutely never intended at all.

If you don't find any benefit in x000ml+ diapers, then don't buy them. No one is forcing you to.

At no point did I say I was buying them or was forced into buying any.

Some perfectly OK medical diapers from Tena and Seni cost around only $1 each.

Well, as a matter of fact, Tena super is my nightly diaper of choice for my enuresis. Good call on that one.

That's fine! It doesn't mean more is pointless.

You're right, it's not pointless, just more costly. The whole aim here is to get prices down to make diapers more affordable for us incontinent folks that don't require the massive absorption of the hyper diapers. Less absorption should equal less price, more frequent changes (some of us prefer this).

Anywho, let's keep it friendly and intelligent. There is a lot of good opinions in this thread, with even a company rep participating
It's just all good input to hear everyone's opinions regarding this.

I thank you for your input bunnyfofo.

 

[MaxxH]

I'm all for having a choice.

I don't mind them making the nuclear option diapers as long as they don't displace the ones I like. Betterdry and Megamax hold enough that I'm ready to change before they force my hand.

For out and about, NS Supreme lite has enough capacity without the obvious bulge.

I would be disappointed it they discontinued one of my faves to concentrate production on the Noah's Ark variety.

 

[Abdlchriscrinkle]

I'm all for having a choice.

I don't mind them making the nuclear option diapers as long as they don't displace the ones I like. Betterdry and Megamax hold enough that I'm ready to change before they force my hand.

For out and about, NS Supreme lite has enough capacity without the obvious bulge.

I would be disappointed it they discontinued one of my faves to concentrate production on the Noah's Ark variety.

Well said, I'm with you on this.

 

[BunnyFofo]

Annoying eh? See BobbieSueEllen's post #35 of this thread, it outlines all of what you're discussing.

No. I'll simplify my point a bit. I had two main issues.

The first is what the ISO absorbency is, and how it's supposed to be used.
Others, including BobbieSueEllen have pointed this out, but there are still plenty of posts here that acted as if that's a real world number and not a theoretical maximum. I just wanted to restate my understanding on the matter, but consider this settled.

The other, is that if you really want to have a civil discussion with people then (in my opinion) you might want to write something like:
"I don't like wearing wet diapers for longer than x amount of time, so high capacity diapers aren't for me."
What you wrote comes across as more: "EWWW people who like high capacity diapers must just sit in literal gallons of human waste for days, GROSS".

It's fine if you don't like wearing wet diapers for very long, but if so then just say that.
Don't make up stories about a how a group you aren't a part of and disagree with must act or feel.
Your original post also reads as an attempt to logically *prove* that higher capacity diapers have no practical reason for being.
That's completely different from stating your opinion and personal preferences.

You're right, it's not pointless, just more costly. The whole aim here is to get prices down to make diapers more affordable for us incontinent folks that don't require the massive absorption of the hyper diapers. Less absorption should equal less price, more frequent changes (some of us prefer this).

Then I think it would be more useful to identify the product gap that's missing rather than attacking the products you don't like.

You already have diapers (Tena) that work for you overnight and don't cost too much - so what's missing, if anything?

Do you want something more absorbent than them but less than 7000ml?
How absorbent?
The same absorption, but ABDL prints?
Plain white?
Are there any features or adjustments that you think would help?
Etc.

 

[nightfox320]

We had one of those. While I can assure you I agree it would be great, I can also tell you most people wouldn't buy it. I know, we made them before.

Which diaper was that? I have used your brand since it was under the old Snuggie's logo. I do remember how much I love the original diaper. Used it every night for my bedwetting and it was great!

And it is a shame the higher pulp diapers arnt as successful. As an abdl and bedwetter I find those types of products work so much better for my medical and recreational needs.

 

[Want4mor]

What I mean by arms race is this ridiculous capacity war going on between diaper manufacturers...

Perhaps it's just me that thinks this is past the point of novelty and stupidity to have diapers that are supposedly good for almost TEN litres of piss or other fluids.

I'm trying not to be rude regarding this, but by the time you produce that much urine, your skin surely will have already been damaged from sitting in a huge bag of waste. That's got to take a full day almost!

Like, at what point will this get to before it is nonsensical for everyday, practical uses? When will it be that moment where we all go ''holy shit, this got out of control'' lol

For those that want to argue about practicality, I will point out that discretion is LONG gone after 2 or 3 litres of urine in any diaper, good luck hiding that under normal clothing, let alone even being able to walk properly. These diapers don't apply to most practical incontinent folks that don't enjoy sitting in cold piss.

The price of these hyper capacity diaps are ridiculous as well. Abdl diapers are already costly...

Aside from the fun factor at home, and the novelty of enjoying one of these beastly undergarments, I
simply can't see your everyday incontinent person tolerating sitting in their own waste after even one litre. Smell and comfort become issues.

I just don't understand the need to cram that much capacity into one disposable product.

I dunno, I'm sure this will end up rubbing people the wrong way (which I did not intend), but I just felt the need to put my thoughts down after seeing some recent new products being talked about.

Crazy world to be living in lately

While you are right, it comes down to one thing. If the consumer isn’t buying, then the product won’t be produced. If the product doesn’t sell, the manufacturer would stop making it. There is obviously demand for that type of diaper. At the end of the day, they are a business and they have a product that is making them money. If you don’t want that diaper, don’t buy it. I don’t wear that diaper, so I don’t buy it. Others do.

 

[greatlake5]

I'm all for having a choice.

Like I've said, it's a free world. What ever "floats" your boat.

I've been IC since the beginning. And I've used tons of different brands. For a couple of years I've stuck with Confidry 24/7 or plastic back Abena.
Both are medical diapers. I have tried a few abdl diapers but I've found that there really isn't that much of a difference. Some of these are kind of overkill.

For myself, if I'm going to be out and don't want to change I simply add a booster. Typically I just wear my usual Confidry. 5 to 6 hours is fine unless
I've had a flash flood.

I can get ~ $1.85 per diaper. Some of these abdl diapers are double $'s. Even though it's not a money issue, I don't think it's worth the $. No thanks.

 

[Veljie]

Sometimes you want to be in the same nappy for 12-24 hours. Some people like that

 

[Lukas]

Tykables products, even the Str8Up is less money in most cases than NorthShore just for reference. So even if we are thicker and have a higher ISO we still cost the same or less in most cases. If you want to test this out yourself, be sure to add the tax and shipping to your NorthShore order and remember Tykables prices include tax and delivery in the USA already; NorthShore and most other brands can not say that so they tack them on at checkout so they can say their product is less and blame someone else for the end price being higher.

Honestly the only way to be cheaper is the subscription otherwise the price difference is negligible, and I'm getting free shipping on my orders through NorthShore and that is tax and everything. To top it off the XL size of most of your products are too tight, where as I can still get a decent fit from their products.



And yes I just looked, base price for the Str8Ups for the equivalent quantity is 240, that's WITHOUT tax and shipping.

Lastly NorthShore's autoship doesn't require a 3 month commitment either, and most importantly I can select what I want/need and change it up at will.

 

[tommytemper]

I get it, I usually use lower capacity medical diapers during the week and higher capacity diapers on the weekend. The reason being on a week day I am not going to have time to use its capacity anyways, if I put it on before bed (or change into a dry one before bed if I was already wearing and wet), wake up in the morning and wet while I eat breakfast, then it's time for big boy undies and going to work so I don't really need anything that holds more then 1 good wetting and sometimes not even that much. On the weekends I may have more time to spend in it and wet multiple times so then I wear a higher capacity diaper for fun.

I also like high capacity diapers when I travel, being able to drink a large coffee, or soda, and not need to stop.

 

[TheBob]

As long as they make 'em much better than medical diapers (which is not at all hard to do), that's fine with me. I drink two or three 750 ml baby bottles in a diaper session so a 4,000 ml diaper is fine...based upon their actual capacity being half of that. 2,000 ml is fine.

By the by, half of ten litres is five so a full 5,000 ml diaper would have a net weight of 13.5 pounds...or roughly six kilos. Would you want that weight weighing down on your hips? Not me.

Oh...and since wet diapers are measured in net weight, that means messy diapers are measured in "gross" weight.

LOL....gross weight.

 

[todaler]

Honestly the only way to be cheaper is the subscription otherwise the price difference is negligible, and I'm getting free shipping on my orders through NorthShore and that is tax and everything. To top it off the XL size of most of your products are too tight, where as I can still get a decent fit from their products.

View attachment 97322

And yes I just looked, base price for the Str8Ups for the equivalent quantity is 240, that's WITHOUT tax and shipping.

Lastly NorthShore's autoship doesn't require a 3 month commitment either, and most importantly I can select what I want/need and change it up at will.

Putting the fit / size aside because in the end that would be moot. With our subscription you can change the size at any time. You just said that ours were 240, and our prices include shipping and tax so that is the total, where NorthShore is 257.96 with a subscription which means they are $18 more than us at best. That is only if you do autoship else they are over $30 more than us. Even at best they are almost $20 more than us which means we are around 10% less. I would say that is a huge difference given that we are a smaller company and we are not only competitive but charging far less.

 

[BabyJ316]

Putting the fit / size aside because in the end that would be moot. With our subscription you can change the size at any time. You just said that ours were 240, and our prices include shipping and tax so that is the total, where NorthShore is 257.96 with a subscription which means they are $18 more than us at best. That is only if you do autoship else they are over $30 more than us. Even at best they are almost $20 more than us which means we are around 10% less. I would say that is a huge difference given that we are a smaller company and we are not only competitive but charging far less.

This. I stopped even looking at Northshore when I figured out Tykables pricing structure. Cammies can also pass as vanilla at a passing glance.

 

[Lukas]

Putting the fit / size aside because in the end that would be moot. With our subscription you can change the size at any time. You just said that ours were 240, and our prices include shipping and tax so that is the total, where NorthShore is 257.96 with a subscription which means they are $18 more than us at best. That is only if you do autoship else they are over $30 more than us. Even at best they are almost $20 more than us which means we are around 10% less. I would say that is a huge difference given that we are a smaller company and we are not only competitive but charging far less.

Ok, didn't know the base 240 was for everything. And again if I could fit I would probably go with the subscription. But for people like me who wear 24/7 it's always going to be a situation of using subscription/autoship because we definitely don't want to run out of supplies. I will say your 'daytime' diapers like the little builders are in the sweet spot for capacity. Only time I might want something higher is for night-time to avoid leaks.

Im not trying to make the argument that Tykables are bad products, just that they don't work for me in my current state. And really the price difference of $18 really is kind of negligible if you you are in the camp of wanting a wide variety of solid color options, but don't want the prints. And for those that wear 24/7 or are incontinent are most likely going to change every 6-8 hours regardless and for 'general' use, the super High-Capacity diapers are just a waste unless say you are pounding a 32oz nalgen of water every 30 minutes.