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The BIG Issues, or:... (Great Wall of China Text)

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The BIG Issues, or: How I learned to stop complaining and love the system!

There's a "TL/DR" at the bottom for your convenience. ;)


Now it's definitely not my intention to cause drama with this post. I feel I'm entitled to post my opinion, so that's what I'm doing... it's what I've always done.

Over the past couple of months, I've been on the receiving ends of a few users who have spoken out against certain aspects of this forum. The most common being:

  1. The rep-system and how it's currently operated,
  2. The “secret requirement” needed in order to gain VIP status,
  3. How the forum “just doesn't feel the same anymore”,
  4. A few users having a “Holier than Thou” attitude,
  5. A general increase in immaturity (and decrease in quality of posts).

Lately, these things have been cumulating and are starting to boil and evaporate our community away. I’m sure a lot of you people don’t want to see that happen, so instead of ignoring the issue and/or bitching about it, I want to make this a post as to what I personally feel about what’s been going on. I don’t expect anyone to agree with me, nor do I expect anyone to refute me. You’re more than welcome to do both however, but understand this is my perspective of it all, it’s opinion, take it to heart but don’t feel disheartened over it.

Let’s face it, these things are easy to sweep under the rug, but that will do us no good. We will eventually collapse under the weight of these things and the forum will quite literally implode in a flurry of paranoia, bigotry, accusations, insults, attitude and drama. That is something I would not like to see happen simply because I enjoy coming here and using this place as a podium to project and convey my thoughts on things to people who I know will give two shits about it, let alone it being a *B/DL community of all things as well.


Point One – The Reputation System (aka. The Drama Trigger)
Addressing the first point above, I can't think of anything else on this forum that has caused more drama than the reputation system. I find it ironic something employed to show appreciation has actually increased the frequency of unappreciative behaviour. Shedding that sort of light on it makes the rep-system feel highly redundant and useless, but not so if it weren't also used as a self-moderation tool and a great way of showing to someone on the forum that you respect their opinion. Apart from weighing up the good and bad things about the system, you also have to consider the impact each aspect has on the whole dynamic of the forum.

The battle over reputation often becomes the focal point for a number of threads. I've observed that people can argue as much as they want over it and still not reach any conclusion or agreement. By nature, the reputation system is always going to cause upset and unrest amongst users. Why? Because reputation is given on reputation is given on a personal opinion basis. Contrary opinions are something I don't foresee we'll ever overcome simply because everyone is unique and, as a society, we harbour and cherish values of individualism and the concept of "everyone is perfect just the way they are"... or at least we try to. Treading on someone else's ideals, especially if they are in conflict, will naturally cause bickering and disagreement and the reputation system is simply a medium for those disputes to channel through. We are an intelligent, insightful community with people who carry with them different ideas about how the world works. Drama is a typical part of our clash of thoughts and ideas. Consequently, this often gets out of hand and escalades into a bitch-fight more than anything. I would like to be correct in assuming we are above that sort of behaviour; I know we are because I've seen many people here demonstrate it countless times in the past.

People, I find, are way too trigger-happy to in giving out negative reputation when neutral-rep, a PM or a simple post outlining the problem and how to fix it would have sufficed. This is roughly akin to the old saying, "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all". People will take warnings very personally as it exposes a weakness or flaw within ourselves. That's just a part of being human and people really take these things to heart. To combat this, you just have to be more considerate and careful in your word usage. I might be slightly hypocritical in saying this, as I've been known to disregard my own advice in the past, but I do feel there are appropriate & inappropriate times to say certain things. Before hitting the post button, just sit back and think to yourself how you'd feel if someone said to you what you are about to say. Would it make you feel irritable, uncomfortable, angry, annoyed, etc...? If so, then perhaps consider not posting the message until you reword it to make it less upsetting and more constructive. If you feel the post really does deserve neg-rep, do so, but provide a good reason for it, otherwise, report the post using the report button and let a mod deal with it.

With that point, I feel non-mod users on the forum should just take a backseat when it comes to moderation and that the mods should step up to the plate more often. As a non-mod, you should just come onto this site and enjoy what’s here, it isn’t your duty to “take out the trash”, so to speak, and it’s definitely not your duty to punish people when they have done the wrong thing. I know the mods can’t be online all the time, but more often than I like, I see users giving other people an unnecessary verbal or reputation bashing over something that might as well be reported. Sometimes you just have to let it slide. In this, I feel the rules of the site should be reviewed as to allow the mods to remove those users who continually incite stupid bullshit and/or drama on the forum, regardless of whether it is done purposely or not. Yes, I know you can stick up a sign that says, “Do not feed the trolls”, but just seeing them around really does wear thin after a while and they more or less become spam on the forum. Whilst I have called for leniency in the past, this is one thing that I’d love to see tightened up and restricted a bit more.

Furthermore, those with higher rep than most other users may not see it nor believe it, but their words can influence how other users act and what they say on the forum. Reputation does define some sort of status to people on this board. It may be interpreted differently amongst different users, however, that still means those with a greater rep are looked at in an elevated manner. On a more personal, inter-user basis, those with higher reputation are sometimes seen to be role-models for the community. Through their words (or actions), they have demonstrated how users can gain positive reputation. Don't feel disheartened if someone doesn't take to you too well. After all, if someone doesn't like something, then there's no way to forcibly change their opinion. But you are more than welcome to have a healthy debate with them, which means not resorting to insults and immature behaviour. A good exchange of opinions is where both/all parties are open to all the ideas that others are presenting to them, you don’t necessarily have to accept them, but see that they could be a plausible alternative to your ideals. It should be noted that reputation does not give you any authority over other users on the forum and in no way should it be used to intimidate people with lower rep. Conversely, if you have a lower rep than another user, do not feel intimidated by them. It may simply be a matter that they've been on the forum longer and have had the time to make many posts.


Point Two – The Secret Requirement (...why can’t I know!?)
On that note, I get taken to my second point - status, particularly the idea behind gaining VIP status and the whole mystery surrounding the "secret requirement" to gain it. For those who don't know, the old system used to be that you gain 10 positive reputation points and that was all that was required to gain VIP status. Moo, our admin, then introduced a new system whereby users were given VIP status on the forum based on an unknown and mysterious requirement where only Moo knows what it is. This has been the subject of much speculation and the cause of a lot of drama on the forum lately as people are dropped from a VIP to a Regular without any apparent reason why. Instead of spending our time on the forum talking about, well... *B/DL topics and other interesting things, we are bitching and moaning that our usernames aren’t bold green and that Moo may creating his own circle of friends for unknown reasons (not that I personally believe that).

VIP status does elevate you above other users in that you have proven yourself trustworthy enough and that you are now recognised for your efforts on this forum. It does not, however, make you any more of a person or a user on this forum. You are still the same person you were before you gained VIP status. If you stick to your guns, people will continue to appreciate you being here. Don't change your attitude simply because you've gained a small, insignificant promotion and some bold-coloured letters. You probably didn't care about gaining VIP status before you first became one, so then why complain when you lose your status and drop back down to a Regular? Possibly because you probably feel you've lost something that you've rightfully earned. With this point, I am on your side 100%. Whilst being a VIP is not much of a meaningful promotion in terms of forum usage, it does dictate that you have proven yourself a trustworthy and likable user. Since reputation is given by people based on their opinion, having VIP status based on the old-system was a sign that you were respected amongst your fellow users here.

With the current system and the secret requirement, that whole aspect of respect is lost since it no longer matters what other people think of you (well, you still do need to gain 10 pos-rep, but that doesn't cut it anymore). This secret requirement has been more trouble than it's worth. I'd like to think an admin shares all information and aspects of the site with his users, gains their opinions on things and works with them accordingly. I cannot bring into question that Moo hasn’t done that in the past; however, it's only been since this secret came to fruition that I began to question what was really going on here. Why are people being demoted for no clear and obvious reason? Do we not have a right to know what the reasoning behind all this is? What are the true motives behind this decision to have a secret requirement?

This secret has been more trouble than it's worth, for all we know; it could ultimately be Moo's own personal opinion on people and that wouldn't be fair in the slightest, although I do suspect it has something to do with the pos/neg-rep ratio. People are edgy, confused and just blatantly pissed off that they are being judged by something of which is unknown to them. It’s like taking a math’s test only to be told afterward that you were really being examined on how neat your writing is. Of course, I can see the logic in that if people did know, they would probably try to fulfil that requirement purposely – but that would defeat the purpose of having the requirement in the first place. As it stands, this is a two-way street. People either get annoyed and angry over the secret, or they focus their efforts on trying to fulfil the requirement and in doing so making their VIP status hardly worth anything.

The best option, I see, is to just scrap the whole secret altogether and base VIP status on a known set of factors, or an equation that takes into account a user's overall contribution the site. Or perhaps even just going back to the old system, but create one or two more user-levels above VIP. One factor, I feel, that has contributed to this whole issue is that we don’t have enough “typical” user-levels, and by “typical” I mean disregarding special status like being a moderator or being in moderation. Taking those things out, we are only left with Newbies, Regulars and VIPs - only three levels which doesn’t mix things up a bit at all. If this secret requirement were all about exclusion (which I sincerely hope it isn’t), wouldn’t it make more sense to have more exclusive user-levels anyway. I’m not saying that these higher levels should have private boards as well; the VIP Forum is dead enough as it is. Although I do feel there should be higher levels and something (like a special title or something) to denote this.

To me, the whole secret requirement seems like highly defunct and outdated way of going about things, and I only need to point out the drama is has caused as a reason for its removal. Last I checked, the rules state we shouldn’t induce drama on this forum... well that’s exactly what this secret is doing. Adding to that, I don’t feel that this secret should be made known either, but I can foresee people bitching about what it is. The only viable solution to the problem is to remove the secret, throw it into the abyss and never speak of it again.


Point Three – “This Place Ain’t what it Used to Be!”
Points One and Two cumulate into one huge issue that I feel needs to be addressed and sorted rather quickly, because I have seen and spoken to a number of users who feel that the site is no longer the relaxed and fun place it used to be. I'm going to dub this the "TBDL Reminiscent Syndrome" - people always seem to reflect back to how TBDL used to be and compare it to how ADISC is today and criticise everything about this place. People with this syndrome feel that this place has just taken a turn for the worse over the past few months, or as far back as when we made the switch to the new domain. I can't quite express this feeling in an analytical way, so rather I hope my own sentiments get my point across.

There are quite a number of reasons people are feeling this way, most notably the fact of the two above points and how much tension and drama it has caused on the forum. This place has been stripped of it relaxed and fun atmosphere and given a serious and paranoid tone to it. People aren't so open anymore and (through no fault of their own) newbies aren't respecting the trends and ideals that older members held. Call it a revolution, but the whole vibe I get from this place just isn't what it used to be. Sure I still come on here, and I'm as active as ever, but to some extent I feel it's all done in vain since we don't have that closeness amongst each other anymore.

But this is to be expected as the place grows and develops. I can't blame Moo for changing over to the new domain and taking that action to see this place become much more dynamic and experience a steroid-injection of contributions. I have to admit, I saw all of this coming - a large number of people join up and the price we pay is losing the closeness and strong inter-personal relationships we had here. I am definitely not pointing the finger at anybody, particularly not newbies. You're all very much welcome here and have just as much right as I do to be here - so don't take this so personally. But for older members, I can see where they are coming from. We are losing the ability to become defined, unique people and are becoming just another face in the crowd at the cost of seeing this place become active beyond what we could have imagined it would ever reach. I am both thrilled and disheartened at the future of the website. I like seeing new faces around here as I feel it adds to the already bountiful pool of knowledge, resource and insight, but I fear that as we grow to unfathomable proportions, I will fade into the background too much.

I guess that's just how life works though. You can't always stay on top forever; even if you tried you'll still have to succumb to real life issues which take away from your time here. I don't necessarily believe that anyone will be purged off the site, but it's hard to imagine anyone will be here for the entire journey. As this place grows, so will the egos of members who strive to be apart from the crowd, holding their heads high and screaming with over-confidence. It will ultimately make this place a hot-headed, status worshipping culture of which I despise. The atmosphere of this place will become like the sky over a city struggling to deal with the pressures of a wasteful, inefficient society and in doing so become more volatile and out-of-control.

Then again, I probably read too many dystopian-future novels for my own good and that outlook is rather extreme. Nevertheless, I feel we should adopt principles that everyone has a right to be here, but that everyone should also respect what is already established. We are like any other society; there are unwritten rules that can only be learnt as you assimilate within the culture. People often try to take the easy path and skip these points, and I'm glad people here still have a level-headedness about them as to not let these other types of people through easily. I don't feel I need to elaborate on what these things are; after all they are unwritten for a reason. But I will say that this place does have a culture of its own, separate from other AB/DL websites, and just like any culture, there are values we hold dear and values we reject.

Nonetheless, people still need to re-evaluate how they are perceived on this forum. I’d love to have newbies join up and have all of them as insightful as the VIPs, but that’s just not the reality within this fetish. We have to take the good with the bad and try to demonstrate to these people that that’s just not how we roll here. I’d love to see regulars continue the trends that the VIPs have set, but we are all very different people in the way we think and act, so it’s not going to happen in all cases. I’d love to see the VIPs take a more proactive approach in developing this forum. We are still a set group of people who have the ability to change how others talk and act on the forum, but the reality is that it shouldn’t be our job to get people to behave. I understand that we all come onto this forum for our own reasons and that we shouldn’t have to care about what other people do here, but we should at least care to the point where if all this shit continues, we won’t have much of a good forum left to visit.


Point Four – Attitude: You’re not God’s Gift to Humanity, surprisingly.
One thing I could never seem to sit comfortably with is how people let their status get to their heads and they dictate things as if their word is law or the snub people because they deem that person to be lower than they are. The fact is no one should be directly insulted or put-down for any of their demographical points, nor their actions, behaviour, words or beliefs. To do so is just flat-out bullying and harassment. It’s not something you do in real life as you go about your day-to-day activities, so why all of a sudden have that attitude on online, in a community like this of all places. I think people take the anonymity aspect of the internet a little too far. As if being anonymous in your words makes it less condescending, or instils a less-personal feeling about the message you are sending to the other person. Thing is, people are always going to take negatively to unsavoury comments made about them or to them (whether indirectly or not) and the instigator always seems to wonder what they’ve done wrong. It doesn’t matter if it’s on the internet or not, words do have the ability to cut deep.

Online communities such as this one, where the user-base knows each other on a more personal level, really do mirror most aspects of real-life social groups and communities. We can’t deny the fact there’s always going to be tension, drama and inter-personal issues and, consequently, insults will get thrown around, egos will get broken and feelings will be hurt. I’ve noticed here that people have a great ability to not admit when they are wrong. They prefer to hurl the flame bucket whilst ignoring all evidence to the contrary about their point. Yes, it is hard to admit you are wrong. No one likes to be proven wrong or pointed out that they’ve messed up their information, it is demoralising when you’ve been backed into a corner with no way out. In such an instance, it’s easy to come out, guns blazing and childish behaviour ready to fire, but as adults we hope to have developed beyond that stage. The real question is: are you mature enough to accept defeat? Can you honestly say that you can stand proud at the fact that you’ve been corrected and, in doing so, improved your knowledge? It’s true when they say you learn something new every day, but what they don’t tell you is how that knowledge comes about. Sometimes it is hurtful, but we simply just have to get over it and focus on becoming stronger people because of it.

In saying that, one thing I see here that’s been rather annoying is how people are quick to jump in and pass judgement on someone else. This includes fallacies, being highly condescending and just generally being an asshole to the person in question. One side of the story is that, yes, it does weed out those untruthful, creepy or otherwise unwelcomed people on the forum and for that I am thankful that there are some people who harbour this sort of attitude. More often than not however, people use this way of thinking as a tool for their own image and/or for a cheap joke. For the latter point, you’re really walking on thin ice when you do it. I’ll admit there have been times I’ve done it myself, laughed at other people’s jokes or even given positive reputation to them, but that’s because they (or I) have differentiated between good and bad taste in humour. This is not a skill you can learn, but rather something that is just friends with common sense. I’ve always felt that if more people got some common sense about themselves, the world would be a much better place. Unfortunately for me, this isn’t bound to happen and it’s demonstrated when people make a joke that’s clearly in poor taste. My personal belief is that if you don’t know how to make a joke in good taste, refrain from making a joke at all. Chances are people won’t be laughing at the joke, nor laughing at you, rather they’ll be thinking was a presumptuous dick you are.

As for the former point (people having a bad attitude for their own image), all I can really say is that’s nothing short of schoolyard bullying. The whole “internet tough-guy” thing has really worn thin in the past few years and people have really taking a shining to turning the tables on these sorts of people. For starters, there’s no real benefit in doing it; what do you get out of it? Oh wow, you’ve managed to insult someone over the internet. Oh wait, what’s this? You’re e-penis is growing! I wonder how many girls you’ll impress with that! Give me a break, seriously. If you feel the need to insult someone over the internet, then that just shows how insecure you are about yourself in real life. Adding to that point, the only people who witness it are other internet users, people who really couldn’t give a shit about the entire issue. There are more pressing matters in their lives that they don’t have to care about your petty insult. It’s not like the insult affects them nor are they willing to give you respect for it. As far as they are concerned, it’s just another of life’s most stupid moments, so they aren’t going to stop and applaud you for it. The best you’ll probably get is a laugh from a few of them. In the grand scheme of things your insult is so infinitely insignificant that it’s hardly worth the effort to even write it out, so why bother. Sometimes it’s just best to leave things like that unsaid, even if it’s for your own time and consideration.


Point Five – “O Maturity, Where art Thou!?”
Looking at this objectively, I officially cannot make any statement as to the supposed decrease in the quality of posting lately. However, I will say that from a personal standpoint my sentiments are that there has been a pervading lack of maturity and, as a result, the post quality has dropped off rather dramatically. Just addressing the former point, “maturity” is a fairly broad term that gets thrown around quite unthoughtfully, so I feel it’s best to define what I actually mean here. To me, maturity is the ability to recognise & perceive something and respond in a formal, appropriate and well-handled manner. I’m basically talking about an accumulation of all the above points into one grand, unified ideal: if you can’t conduct & present yourself in mature manner, then reconsider why you want to be here.

As I said back in Point Three (Oh I know! It seems so long ago now!), there are unwritten rules to any community, online or not. Long-standing people have established a “way of things”, something they accept and are comfortable with enforcing and following. The thing about TBDL/ADISC that has always struck me rather quizzically is how new people tend to mention that this place is vastly different from other online communities (not just *B/DL ones) and how they feel the need to integrate with the current system. Furthermore, how the long-standing members tend to impose these constraints onto the new people as if it were second-nature. I believe that it’s within this point that people feel as if the maturity levels have decreased. There are two reasons for this. The first being that new people aren’t integrating into what’s already established and this is firing up some of the older members to the point where they don’t feel there’s that mutual respect between each other.

I honestly think this all started because of the changeover to the new domain. We lost some people, both from a disdain for a new domain and how things have currently been running here. This has mostly had an adverse affect on the older members of this forum and along with having a new site, there’s also a new style of things. In the transitional period we lost some of what this place was, we went from “uptight, but in a friendly manner” to “uptight with intent to destroy”. People haven’t been conducting themselves as formally as in the past and this is one aspect of a lack of maturity. Instead of politely informing someone that their thread is a repeat and taking it no further, they deem it worthwhile to throw a tantrum about how pissed off they are that the thread has been done before and how God almighty should smite someone for not using the “Search” feature. That in itself is a lack of maturity and it’s mostly the longer-standing members who are to blame. It takes no more effort to point someone off in the right direction than it does to show your untamed fury over something so pointless and meaningless. I understand and actually side with those who don’t want to see this place lose it charms, but I’m sure we can all handle matters in a much more effective, helpful and sensible way.

The second reason that I can see is how this place has grown to such large proportions, that there is a greater user-base that is unfamiliar with how current things are running. This leads off to those friend-circles where the members feed off each other and act in similar ways, all in the name of trying to fit in. More often than not, a lot of people find it disrespectful that they get pushed aside to make way for a less intelligible attitude. Just as the above paragraph was aimed as long-standing members, this one is aimed at newbies. One thing that must be understood is that this place really isn’t like other online communities. There’s pride here about that fact, as well as the fact that we focus more on social bonds that actually mean something on a personal level instead of the superficial banter that goes on elsewhere. To come in here and disregard that is to literally come in here and give a big “**** You!” to those people who have been here a while. That is maturity at its lowest point. To combat this, we implore that you to get to know how things operate here before you decide to make your own rules and regulations. That’s not to say you can’t have your own style and individualism about yourself, and in fact we love to see varying personalities here, but please just be considerate of what is already established.

To all members, one thing I will touch on lightly here is how a lack of maturity pervades and seeps into your posts, thereby dramatically reducing the quality of them. This is mostly seen when people just post useless, thoughtless garbage that has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic or any subsequent conversation that occurs. Posting only one or two sentences isn’t bad and it’s definitely not against the rules, but it’s how you deliver your words. When posting on the forum, it is crucial to remember that what you write is the biggest factor in how you are perceived and judged as a person by others. How you present yourself will ultimately determine whether you are a welcome member or an uncouth nuisance. So even though you only post a couple of sentences, as long as they of decent quality (informative, helpful, insightful, etc...), you will demonstrate that you actually do have some maturity to you. If you feel you fall into the category of useless posting, I urge you to put a bit more thought into your threads/posts, it really isn’t that difficult.


Conclusion (...and you thought it’d never happen!)
In conclusion, all I can really say is that this place not only needs an oil change, it needs the whole bloody engine redone. Call it a change in perspective of how we think and interact with each other. We can’t do these things ourselves and we require Moo to hear us and make the appropriate changes to the site. In my rather elaborate opinion, the above points should be seriously considered amongst all willing people. People need to stop looking at how things were and start making changes today so they can influence what the site will be like in the future (with respect to already established, communal ideals). Like I said before, I’m not presenting this as a definitive; it’s just my opinion on what the problem is and how we can fix it up.


TL/DR:
In saying all that, I’m just simply going to say three words that surmise my entire post: Respect Each Other. There’s an old saying, “A little respect goes a long way”, and I think that holds true here. We’re are tense about what’s going on and we’re tense because of the way we interact with each other. People take things too personally, too seriously, too literally that we all get head-****ed and sent off in a daze about what’s really going on. Before posting, sit back, relax, and take a deep breath, whatever gets you calm and just consider the impact your words, decisions and actions might have on another person and the forum as a whole.

We do have a “Preview Post” button for a reason – and if you can understand the underlying context of that statement after what I’ve just said, I applaud you.
 

Darkfinn

Banned
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Diaper Lover, Incontinent,
Well... it certainly is nice to see someone actually offering a solution instead of more problems... even if you did write a freakin book.

Now I don't agree with everything in there... but I do understand where you are coming from. Since you seem to me to always be one of the ones who is supporting the status quo it is nice to hear a bit of criticism of the system.

To sum it all up... I think that a lot of this has been generated by the fact that we are not a small and secretive little community anymore... we are getting a lot more diversity in our members and people are bringing many different viewpoints. Everyone, from the top down, really needs to get used to it.
 

MarcusBear

Est. Contributor
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Babyfur, Diaperfur, , Carer
Someone needs to force matchsticks in members eyelids, force them to read every word, mentally digest it and follow it before they're given posting privileges.

Sticky.
 

Peachy

Banned
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7,449
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Adult Baby, Diaper Lover, Carer
We do have a “Preview Post” button for a reason – and if you can understand the underlying context of that statement after what I’ve just said, I applaud you.
Amen! Too many people go "That sounds Deekerish!", or "There's already a thread on that" or "This has been asked a thousand times before!". Maybe it would help if people used the "preview" button and could see their own post reflected in a mirror - they may realize how stupid, arrogant, and downright offensive their posts are. Be helpful - it's not too much to ask, even if you're not a paid help desk-employee who has to answer 100 times each day how do something simple, or where to find a particular store etc.

Impulsive behavior and impulsive use of the "reply" button is not going to help you. We strive to be a mature forum (despite the young audience), and I'm not surprised that impulsive posts are often more offensive than posts into which people put a fair amount of effort, thought and common sense. And I feel that people do deserve to be punished for impulsive behavior. You can't blurt out stupid stuff IRL either and expect people to forgive you or to not punish you for it.
Take a moment to think about your posts, and if you come to the conclusion that you don't like them after all, this forum has an edit and even a delete button for up to 24 hours!

That said, the rep system is hardly perfect. It's operated by the members. They're humans, so far from perfect, and we also have contrasting opinions and thus feel offended at different levels, or don't understand other people's jokes. Ideally, rep scores should even out between people who find you offensive and those who find you funny/helpful.
Unfortunately, however, the VIP formula seems to have a tendency to stress the negative reputation more, so I'm willing to admit that it could use some tweaking to come to a better balance of good and bed rep. AFter all, we're all human. I'm not sure though if Moo is willing to change the formula or not. After all, since it's his forum, it's for him to decide what determines a "VIP".

And finally, don't get me started on what people abuse the reputation system for! I've seen neg rep with the reason given being "nigger", or people pushing others' rep simply out of gratitude for something they've done for them, or for trying to give "sympathy rep" because some user they like has receive negative reputation they don't agree with.

I've flipped through last month's reputation comments, and here are some really bad examples (copied and pasted fresh from the 'tap')

-"Beacuse you shouldn't of been neg-repped and I would of done what you do."
- "+1! Norton blows!"
-"yiff in hell, furfags"
- "Happy Birthday, princess! Enjoy it! "
- "I'm here for you. <3 "
- "disable crotch shots. Yes indeed."
- "For knowing me well!!"
- "Speak the truth - God"
- "ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD"

None of them conform to the standards for rep-worthy posts as explained in the box you get when you want to give someone reputation. Positive reputation is for "helpful, funny, wise, kind or otherwise positive" posts, negative reputation for "drama, flaming, spam, memes or otherwise negative" posts. Someone's birthday, choice of antivirus program or even opinion (e.g. on crotch shots) is not rep-worthy unless the person has taken the time to put it into a funny, wise, helpful or kind post!

After all the negative examples, here's someone who has understood the idea behind the reputation system:

"I can't say I agree in general about telling parents, but I think that was a pretty well-presented explanation of the hows and whys of it."

He's a person who says very little on the forum, and yet he's a VIP. Maybe y'all should follow his lead?!

To conclude: The VIP formula may need some tweaking, but as long as people abuse the rep system for their personal business, fail to understand the logic behind it or give out sympathy rep for people they like, it'll never be fair. So you better get used to the fact that we'll have to live with an unfair rep system! There's only so much Moo can do to eliminate all the spam rep that accumulates all the time!

So everyone: Take a few minutes to reflect on your behavior on the forum and your use of the rep system!

Peachy
 

kevintje

Est. Contributor
Messages
476
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Adult Baby, Diaper Lover
Great post :)
thanks for taking the time to write it all down.

I must agree with you that the place has been changed a lot in the past few months. some things changed for the good, others turned out to be rather "bad" (what IS good or bad here anyway...).
In the end I was never (and probably never will be), a great contributor to the forums and wiki, and it has a reason...
I don't have much time to do research on the things I'm going to write, and basicly, most things have been said before. It's stupid to start a new topic about 'what diaper do you think is best', it's been done 100 000 times before.
However, I read the forums a load, and I try to reply on some posts (mostly small things).

for the rep system... I personally think the rep system should go, if you want to give rep to someone, send him a pm, or make a reply that is positive, if you want to negrep someone, do the same. The point with the rep system is, now you have the VIP status as ultimate goal, and people tend to do everything to get there *caugh* shodai campaign *caugh*.
Some might to call it jealousy, and yes, even I want to know what it's like in the vip forums, but I learned to live with it, If I want to discuss things with VIP members, I find them in the chatroom, ppl that are in my msn list,... THOSE are my VIP's.

I think if ppl would just relax and stop taking care of their 'status'... things would go a load better.

my :twocents:
 

andysetra

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,407
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Adult Baby, Diaper Lover, Other
Well thought out post, Lukie. I have to say I'm pretty much in agreement with everything you've said, especially about point #2. The whole secrecy thing just makes me feel almost like a pawn or something. That's just the impression that I get. I do feel that I'm probably one of the 'useless post' people, but oh well :dunno:

I find that many times when writing a post I (inadvertently) hide my opinion or don't type what I probably would have had I not been worried about getting neg repped. It's not that the post would have been offensive, and I realize that it sounds kind of silly, but it happens and I bet I'm not the only one. Even if it's just a number (which for the most part I could care less about), you are right that people do judge a member by their reputation to an extent (that's what it's there for and all...)
 

Charlie

Est. Contributor
Messages
3,448
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Adult Baby, Diaper Lover, Sissy, Carer, Other
I'll have to put the kettle on before I read this post!
[...]
Time elapses

  1. The rep-system and how it's currently operated,
  2. The “secret requirement” needed in order to gain VIP status,
  3. How the forum “just doesn't feel the same anymore”,
  4. A few users having a “Holier than Thou” attitude,
  5. A general increase in immaturity (and decrease in quality of posts).


I think I have to agree with almost everything (not that I have any specific that I disagree with, this just covers me if I missed something) that you said.

And...

Well I was going to make a post, but then I'd just be repeating what you said. :confused:

I'll post anyway:

My biggest peeve is the maturity thing. I just dislike rudeness, and when people point out newbies mistake in an aggressive or unhelpful manner... well it really annoys me.
Actually no, people giving negative rep is probably my biggest peeve. I've said it before many times, you've said it today, and other people have said too... but I'll say it again:

You don't have to give negative rep.

Your options:
-Reply to the post, criticising it in a helpful way.
-Send the person a PM instead replying to the post (if you feel it best left private).
-Give the person neutral rep, giving constructive criticism (anonymous).
-Report the post (anonymous, and brings the post to mod attention (we aren't psychic!). This should happen to ANY post that breaks the rules, and most posts that get negative rep would have broken a rule!)
-Give negative rep (if you have done the other options in the past, or if the post is seriously extremely bad).

I'm not sure what now... People know all this. Sure change needs to happen, but how? Telling people to be mature isn't really going to help, because the people who need to read this thread gave up by point two.​
 

Klokwork

Est. Contributor
Messages
511
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Diaper Lover, Carer
In saying that, one thing I see here that’s been rather annoying is how people are quick to jump in and pass judgement on someone else. This includes fallacies, being highly condescending and just generally being an asshole to the person in question. One side of the story is that, yes, it does weed out those untruthful, creepy or otherwise unwelcomed people on the forum and for that I am thankful that there are some people who harbour this sort of attitude.
You're welcome. Next time, instead of writing a goddamn book, just say "Be more like dethklok". In fact, instead of "www.ADISC.org" this place sould be "dethklokdethklokdethklok.ADISC.dethklok/dethklok" It just rolls of the tongue. I'm so ****ing awesome, nobody can step to this shit.
 

Pojo

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You're welcome. Next time, instead of writing a goddamn book, just say "Be more like dethklok". In fact, instead of "www.ADISC.org" this place sould be "dethklokdethklokdethklok.ADISC.dethklok/dethklok" It just rolls of the tongue. I'm so ****ing awesome, nobody can step to this shit.

Pojo begs to differ
 
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You're welcome. Next time, instead of writing a goddamn book, just say "Be more like dethklok". In fact, instead of "www.ADISC.org" this place sould be "dethklokdethklokdethklok.ADISC.dethklok/dethklok" It just rolls of the tongue. I'm so ****ing awesome, nobody can step to this shit.
You've abused the rep system too.
 

Klokwork

Est. Contributor
Messages
511
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Diaper Lover, Carer
Pojo begs to differ
Beg all you want. You can't differ. Unless you want to be wrong. It's a fact that the site's name would be better if it was "dethklokdethklokdethklok.dethklok.dethklok/dethklok/dethklok" That's much catchier than that tongue twister we've got now. I can't even pronounce it with my super ninja mouth. "ayy dee eye ess see". It's impossible. Almost as impossible as be being wrong, which is as impossible as it gets.
 

Martin

Est. Contributor
Messages
3,833
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Keep on topic!

I'll write a big reply once I have time for that.
 

weswissa

Banned
Messages
375
Role
Adult Baby, Diaper Lover, Babyfur, Sissy
I find the secrecy of the VIP system to be quite quizzical. Even though I've only been here a short time, it seems I already feel pushed around by the hierarchy, an inner circle of probably 10-15 people at best. Also I feel that Peachy's quote of, "That sounds Deekerish," come from what I said about silver fox 1954. Though it was probably a general referance to all the people who said that. I did not read the whole thing and I'm sorry for that, it was a mistake on my part.

This rep system is one that I find astonishing on a forum. On one side, it lets new people, or regulars for that matter, voice there opinion without being subjugated to ridicule or torment or even praise if they don't want to. On the other hand, it seems like a corrupt way of getting someone banned by getting some other people and all negative repping him or her, or by boosting someone's rep by doing the same thing but only with positive rep. My opinion is that it is morally corrupt and should not be here anymore. If people don't want to talk to someone about the problem/praise, then they don't have to. It's a decision all their own.

If I think of anything else to say, I'll edit this post, but beyond what I said, this is my opinion and I will not change it to please another person, no matter the cost. It may seem arrogant but that is the way I am. God made me that way, so there must be a something he wants me to do with it, of that I'm sure.

~Weswissa
 

Corri

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,257
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You've abused the rep system too.
Eric, this thread is not the time or place for that.


Time for Drew to admit a deep dark secret... again...
My reasons for not being like I was on the old forum?
Lukie hit it on the head.

The reasons for my random spurts of crappy posting?
Experimentation.
"Stop complaining about VIP status in public. If you really are hurt about it, take it up with Moo. Just stop complaining about it in public."
^ that was for voicing my opinion in the ball game which.... is meant to be non judgmental.

Obviously, we all know where this community is going... but only a few want to acknowledge it.


I STRONGLY URGE THAT THE REP SYSTEM BE REVERTED OR CHANGED.

I am also a fan of the multiple user levels. Sounds, interesting.
 
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Jaiden

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686
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Blimey, that really was a tome, Lukie.

Though you made a lot of good points and I agree with much of what you say I do think it's a shame we have to have threads like these. All internet forums seem to reach this regrettable point when people can't just chat, discuss and advice but start to spend a lot of time talking about the forum itself; rather than using the forum as a template for socialisation and interaction, the focus becomes how that template should be drawn. It's rarely a good sign. My advice, briefly, would be to stop sweating the small stuff - rep, status, forum politics - and just get on with utilising what this place is for. You'll find that you enjoy it a lot more.

I'm certainly not fatalistic about the site and wouldn't suggest that nothing should be done, though. There are problems that ought to be dealt with, we just need a greater degree of calmness over how we do that dealing. Lukie, Charlie and Peachy all make some excellent points and suggestions and I think one or two changes reflecting the tone of those points wouldn't go amiss.
 
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Thanks for the support everyone... I'll write a follow up in response to the replies later, when I don't feel so mentally drained. >_<

And I don't say this often (actually, I think this is the first time), but if there's one thread I want to stay on topic, please make it this one. I don't mind side-discussion, provided it's not drivel! Sorry if that sounds rude, but I didn't type all that up just so people could talk some mindless bullshit.
 

mizzycub

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,615
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Adult Baby, Diaper Lover, Babyfur
I think the best response to that post is wow. It was coherent, intelligent and I must say I agreed with most of the points it raised. On must of the ones I didn't it has done a good job of trying to convert me too.

For me the one I have been most aware of was the comments on how people don't feel the forum is the same any more. Now I joined April of this year so I never saw TBDL. However, something I have experienced was peoples attitude to newbies. I was seeing quite a few threads about how newbies were spoiling the site when I had only been there for a month or two. It was really off putting. I wouldn't be surprised if this attitude around site has frightened off some potentially good members.

As for the rep system, I have to say I didn't care about the special requirement, whatever it was, and I thought it was good because neg rep does go on bad posts. However, thinking about it, the special requirement causes a number of the bad posts that get the rep, and the VIP system in general. I like the idea of having more levels of user. I think it is unfair that someone like me who has been around for less than half a year can be the same status as some of the longest serving and/or most respected members on the site.

As for misuse of neg rep, people either can't think or can't be bothered with the other options, such as constructive criticism or reporting bad posts. The problem is, most bad rep given is justified, it is just that the problem could be solved with other ways. People need to learn what gets bad rep. It isn't different opinions, or at least if it is then it will be removed, it is bad posts. If it isn't a bad post Moo will get rid of it, so avoid bad posts and problem is solved.

I am aware that some members can be immature. I think much of the problem arises from the fact that a lot of members don't know when it isn't okay. Most people are immature sometimes, but some can't turn it off. It is these people who can't turn it off who cause problems. However most people don't want to be seen as immature. I think the comment on the preview button is a great point. If people looked they would see the problems with there posts and hopefully correct them. If they don't care about being immature, then they shouldn't care about the rep they get either.

All in all, thank you so much for this post Lukie. The forum really needed it. Now all we have to do is hope that the people who need to read it most will.
 

Izzy

Est. Contributor
Messages
378
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Adult Baby, Diaper Lover, Babyfur, Little
I think part of the problem is how the rep. system is viewed:

I wrote this before and I'll say it again: It matters too much here. In the most active message forum I've been in my life, pos. and neg. rep was given very very liberally. You wrote a post in the political forum that got universally panned? Eh, you might have lost (well, at my height) 80-100 rep. You made an incredibly insightful comment about gameplay mechanics? You got a lot more than that.

That's how I ended up with 4000+ rep. I posted a lot and most of the things, on average, I think were good.

I just feel that if the rep system felt more like...it was suppose to be an opinion of an individual's content rather than worth, it would be better. Because of how Rep manifests itself here, it always feels that you're judging the individual, not the content, when you post.

At least that's how I know people that I've neg-repped have reacted. Whereas, I don't feel judged when people rep me. I just think they thought I had a good post.

Anyway, that's all. I think a lot of the other issues are above my pay grade, so to speak. This place has felt nice, the people in it are cool, even if the political discussions here are perhaps that worst of any forum I've been in.

And I'm willing to stick around. I'm a huge political person. That says something about the rest of the community.
 

weswissa

Banned
Messages
375
Role
Adult Baby, Diaper Lover, Babyfur, Sissy
I would like to know who gave me a rep point. They are yummy, though I hate them. They make me fat. Look at my stomach. It's bulging. Anyway, even though I don't like them, I would like to know who gave me one.

~Weswissa


Forget I said this... I have a feeling I will get in trouble for this...
 
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I would like to know who gave me a rep point. They are yummy, though I hate them. They make me fat. Look at my stomach. It's bulging. Anyway, even though I don't like them, I would like to know who gave me one.

~Weswissa


Forget I said this... I have a feeling I will get in trouble for this...
Rep points are kept anonymous to avoid the issue of repping people in return, more or less so people don't give it out for any old reason, or to give it in hopes of getting it back in return. You are allowed to sign your name to points, although Moo (and some users) discourage it. There was a thread on this issue a while back, though no real conclusion was ever reached, except that it's such a small detail that it's not really worth Moo's time to change... In my opinion, I don't even think it's important enough to even bother with.
 
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