Swedish surveillance law passed

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Crassi

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I'm upset as I write this. In Sweden there has been much talk about a new law called the "FRA-law". FRA is short of Försvarets Radioanstalt which in English means The Defenses Radioinstitution. It meanst that the Swedish FRA now has the right to listen in and supervise all internet, telepfone or any kind of information sent between people. The system uses an unknown list of words, which if used gets your computer on a watchlist. The government is allowed to tap in on mobile chats and similar activities.

I think it's awful. Sure, I doubt I'll end up on a watchlist. But still, it feels wrong to know that some person I don't know might be reading my personal e-mails and such. It robs ones privacy. Sure, this law is meant to discover terrorists so it's for a good cause. But it's too drastic.

It seems almost like those stories. Fictional worlds where all information is gathered and supervised. I think it's a step in the wrong direction. This could if it kept going this way turn into a "Big Brother sees you" country.

How do you people react to this? Is there similar laws in your countries? I for one is planning to go protesting later this week against the decisions. I say it robs us our rights and integrity.
 

Pojo

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It's against the law to do that in the USA (Watergate scandal)...So it doesn't happen here
 

Target

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Curious, here is happening the opposite.
Our Prime minister asked for reducing interception, so they can be used only for Terrorism and Mafia crimes, so he don't has nothing to worry about his crimes, he can't be discovered.

I think interception are useful to unmask criminals and should be allowed, but not on a so wide area.
I don't know what that law says, but here before police or somebody can do phonecalls interception, they must ask to the judge if they can or not.
Plus these interception can be published by newspapers (something called free information, now semi-dead).
Thanks this law, Police here arrested people for serious financial crimes and homicides in the past, but soon this will end.
 

Jaiden

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That is pretty bloody disgraceful, sounds like the Riksdag is as gutless as the Commons have grown to be over here.

Evidence acquired through wire tapping and the like is actually still inadmissible in court in Britain so that kind of measure isn't present here yet, though we have had our fair share of insidious affronts on liberty in the name of protecting against terrorism in recent years. Most recently seen in the attempts of the Government to extend the possible length of detention without trial to forty-two days under extreme circumstances.

Aside from the generally abhorrent principle of the Swedish law, logistically it must be a nightmare to enforce. The monetary cost and hours needed to practice it would surely be extraordinary making it not only wrong but hugely wasteful.

This was about the only comment I could find on it in English and it seems to be on the money.
 
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FullMetal

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It's against the law to do that in the USA (Watergate scandal)...So it doesn't happen here
Wow...you are so wrong

No, it is not against the law here at all! It is actually called the Patriot Act.

Here is the wiki. You can read all about it.

It shouldn't be called the patriot act, it should be called the 'we can do what ever the hell we want at your expense' act...but they thought that would be too long of a name so they shortened it, and made it sound patriotic.

Fun fun!

FullMetal
 

Takashi

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Well i've heard that they do wire-taping in the US but i'm not 100% sure on that.
 

Pojo

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Wow...you are so wrong

No, it is not against the law here at all! It is actually called the Patriot Act.

Here is the wiki. You can read all about it.

It shouldn't be called the patriot act, it should be called the 'we can do what ever the hell we want at your expense' act...but they thought that would be too long of a name so they shortened it, and made it sound patriotic.

Fun fun!

FullMetal
Yes, but that's for checking for terrorist acts and things against America...From what I've read about this Swedish rule, they haven't specified what they are doing it for, so it would be illegal here...Which is what happened with Watergate...
 
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FullMetal

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Yes, but that's for checking for terrorist acts and things against America...From what I've read about this Swedish rule, they haven't specified what they are doing it for, so it would be illegal here...Which is what happened with Watergate...
They can say they are doing it for anything, it still doesn't change the fact that they can do it with out any evidence and just say 'its the patriot act' If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...chances are, it is not a sheep.

FullMetal
 

Pojo

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They can say they are doing it for anything, it still doesn't change the fact that they can do it with out any evidence and just say 'its the patriot act' If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...chances are, it is not a sheep.

FullMetal

Well that would be illegal if they just say it's the Patriot Act and it's not really
 

dogboy

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I believe the Patriot Act does give our government the right to listen in. In fact, I remember that making the news paper when it came about. On the positive side, I also remember an article saying that there are billions of messages exchanged everyday, so to monitor them is almost impossible. In reality, you are much more likely to be monitored if you are suspected of terrorism or illegal activities. Or wearing diapers...hehehe....
 
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It's against the law to do that in the USA (Watergate scandal)...So it doesn't happen here
Actually the US government has the ability to tap into all forms of communication in this country. They have a system in place that monitors internet traffic exactly like the system the OP is talking about, all phone calls go through a system that filters for trigger words, the government can intercept packages and mail if they wish without telling you, everything. And even though it applies to terrorists keep in mind that no one in the government has actually defined what a "terrorist" is.
 
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It's against the law to do that in the USA (Watergate scandal)...So it doesn't happen here
Not true, on both counts.


Well i've heard that they do wire-taping in the US but i'm not 100% sure on that.
Wow...you are so wrong

No, it is not against the law here at all! It is actually called the Patriot Act.

Here is the wiki. You can read all about it.

It shouldn't be called the patriot act, it should be called the 'we can do what ever the hell we want at your expense' act...but they thought that would be too long of a name so they shortened it, and made it sound patriotic.

Fun fun!

FullMetal
Yes, but I'm afraid you're just showing the tip of the iceberg here. Initially, I believe this came about when the FBI/CIA decided that they could go against their charters with a nasty agreement with MI5/MI6 (UK equivalents of FBI/CIA) called the UKUSA agreement. Basically it was a way to circumvent it being illegal to spy on in-country people ... so the US would spy on UK denizens, and the UK would spy on people in the US. Both sides would trade, and then - ta-da! pesky laws circumvented.


Yes, but that's for checking for terrorist acts and things against America...From what I've read about this Swedish rule, they haven't specified what they are doing it for, so it would be illegal here...Which is what happened with Watergate...
If you control language, you control the world. Look at the sliding scale that we have here (in the US) on what constitutes an "enemy combatant" and "terrorist." These terms are very quickly coming to replace terms as "subversive," "activist," and "Citizen." And we've become numb to it to the point where we bang the drum and carry on. Never in this country has the old adage about Jewish persecution under Hitler's eye been so apt as now. As it stands, there's already a system in production that was pitched as a method of "research match-making" - its true intent was to give us some relief when the Intellectuals in this country go through a Pol Pot scenario.


Well that would be illegal if they just say it's the Patriot Act and it's not really
It would? Those sound like anti-American, Jihadist rabble-rousing words! Clearly you hate America and must stomp puppies to death. Please understand I jest here, but when you can control the language of, and its use within, a society then you have the keys to the kingdom.


I believe the Patriot Act does give our government the right to listen in. In fact, I remember that making the news paper when it came about. On the positive side, I also remember an article saying that there are billions of messages exchanged everyday, so to monitor them is almost impossible. In reality, you are much more likely to be monitored if you are suspected of terrorism or illegal activities. Or wearing diapers...hehehe....
Actually the US government has the ability to tap into all forms of communication in this country. They have a system in place that monitors internet traffic exactly like the system the OP is talking about, all phone calls go through a system that filters for trigger words, the government can intercept packages and mail if they wish without telling you, everything. And even though it applies to terrorists keep in mind that no one in the government has actually defined what a "terrorist" is.
Yes. The systems have gone through a couple of incarnations as "Echelon" and "Carnivore." Suffice it to say that they're quite capable of permitting HumInt agents (those that are actually left these days) to eavesdrop on anything that gets flagged.

The last point that Ecto makes mirrors my observations above - when you leave definitions intentionally vague (checkmate? Cite this as "Executive Privilege") then you can redefine it on the fly to suit.

We are, to put it plainly, pretty clearly in the shit in this country. I hope to legally flee before travel permission needs to come from the government.
 

Pojo

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Jeez I made a mistake...I didn't have the best government teacher
 

paddedhawk

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You might say that it's legal because of the patriot act but there are may people who think that the law itself is is unconstitutional. If it hadn't been for 9/11 the patriot act probably would have be overturned.
 

tiger2

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yay for freedom!
oh wait....
seriously, i think it's bs, im not a major lefty, but seriously, when does the degradation of our personal lives end?
what is this, 1984.....
 

Peachy

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Well that would be illegal if they just say it's the Patriot Act and it's not really
It's not like your government gives a rat's flip side about their own laws. Guantánamo anyone?

Besides, I'm pretty sure that every government spies on their people as well as other countries. That's why every country has a "secret service" of some kind. They don't call it "secret" because you can waltz in there and look them over their shoulder.
After reuniting with the former communist Eastern Germany, my government got access to the archives of the former communist secret service, which has spied on just about ever citizen and had hugs files on just about everyone. Even now - 18 years later - they're still digging through the files.

At any rate, I doubt the secret service is going to be involved with petty crime like Ebay fraud or file sharing or any such stuff. They have bigger fish to fry. Besides, everything that is transmitted electronically between two parties can be intercepted. It's just a matter of finding the needle you're looking for in a planet full of hay.

Peachy
 

Boogeyman

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Why would they tell the public that sort of thing? Viva Revoluccion!
 
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