Should AB Little be protected by the same laws as children?

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siysiy

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Yes ok, I decided to say something controversial.

So should children's protection laws. Be extended to those with a childlike mind?

How would you feel if there was laws that where there to protect you.
But it meant that you had to register yourself as an AB little?

Thought I would liven it up a bit.

Hee, hee.

Yes I know I'm a very naughty boy, and I need to do time in the naughty corner.

Sisi
 

CuddleFish

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No, I don't think such laws should exist for littles, though they do already exist (at least where I live) for people with mantal disabilities who are deemed incapable of making appropriate life choices.

The problem with having the same legal protections as a child is that many of these laws are meant to protect you from yourself. You really don't have much say in what direction your life is going to take (ie. who you live with, where you live, what medical treatments you will undergo) and once you are under that kind of protection you don't have the legal recourse to get back out. If your caregiver of choice no longer wanted to be with you, or was found unfit, this would place you under the care of a public gaurdian, which is not only far from ideal but also an unneccissary drain on public resources.

There are also a lot of adult babies who enjoy having sex with their partners/caregivers, which would obviously be illegal if they were treated as minors. Many other adult privileges such as; driving, voting, working full time, and even getting a library card could be off limits.

Perhaps there is something to what you are saying, that certain people with a childlike mindset maybe deserve some special considerations, but that there is need for more nuance than simply placing them under the same laws as children. Specifically what kind of protections were you thinking of, cici?
 

siysiy

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The problem with having the same legal protections as a child is that many of these laws are meant to protect you from yourself. You really don't have much say in what direction your life is going to take (ie. who you live with, where you live, what medical treatments you will undergo) and once you are under that kind of protection you don't have the legal recourse to get back out. If your caregiver of choice no longer wanted to be with you, or was found unfit, this would place you under the care of a public gaurdian, which is not only far from ideal but also an unneccissary drain on public resources.

There are also a lot of adult babies who enjoy having sex with their partners/caregivers, which would obviously be illegal if they were treated as minors. Many other adult privileges such as; driving, voting, working full time, and even getting a library card could be off limits.


Yes. Ok I am being hypothetical. (that going to be my big word for the day.)
But if something quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck. then is it not a Duck.
And if someone talks Like an child , Walks Like an like a child, Wears child like cloths and plays with toys, drinks from a bottle and sucks a pacifier.
Then may be they are a child. and if they are a child.
Should not the welfare state make sure that they are cared for? or at least make sure that they are being looked after?

Ok i am being controversial. and as you know I live as a little as much as possible, so please don't think i'm making fun of lifestyle choice.
And I do think that Littles are made, I don't think that any of us woke up one day and just decided to start to sucks a pacifier, for most of us it is a life time struggle between how we feel inside and what is see as "normal."

it having your cake and eating it.

if I had to register as a Little to the state. and they took away some choices, and I was not able to do certain activities as it was see not appropriate for a Little. but I was able to live as a little and be accepted by society. would I do that. for me at this moment Yes I would. as the thought of living the way i am with out worry of what other people may think or say, outweighs the thought of not being able to drive, Vote, Smock, drink, and all the rest.

but thats' me at the moment.

what would you do?

stay hidden so you can do what the grown up do, go to work to get paid to get more stuff and pay taxis. Or come out from under the table and say this is me, I am what i am. lets play.

now it way pass my bed time. so I will say night, night. and I will look forward to reading all your NICE comets.

Sisi


 

CuddleFish

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I'll admit, it would be nice to not have any adult worries, even if it meant sacrificing some adult freedoms (I don't know if I'll ever drive, and you can keep your smokes, sex, and alcohol) but there is a big difference between what would be nice and what is realistic. If we had unlimited resources then we could all live carefree lives and be totally taken care of if we so desired. The problem is that taking care of somebody's every need places a lot of strain on the economy if they aren't contributing anything. This can be justified for people with severe disabilities, but if you are capable of being a productive member of society then it is unfair to just take without giving back.

Perhaps there could be something akin to a mariage licence, where a big can legally adopt little, and the little can waive their adult rights and responsibilites for the duration of the contract. I can't see anybody ever putting this into law, but it might work for some people. What do you think?
 
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You can have yourself legally declared a Vulnerable Adult at any time - it takes a proper diagnosis from a qualified physician; his statement as such, a little notary work, a little lawyering, appointing of a personal representative, and a judge to sign off on it, and Bob'sYourUncle, you're not really an adult anymore. Can't vote, can't drive, can't drink, smoke, or do anything without the consent of your personal representative. Your legal status would be equivalent to that of a child. Problem solved.
 

dogboy

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I wonder if that can happen in the U. S.? I know you can commit yourself into a mental facility, and if you are found to be incompetent and unable to take care of yourself, the state would step in. You might have someone who would be your legal guardian and perhaps you'd live in some sort of half way house, but that's really quite different from what you're saying Sisi, if I read it correctly.

I think for most of us, myself included, I wouldn't want to give up my many freedoms that I have living as an adult who is responsible for himself. In my case, I'm responsible for others such as my wife. I'm her dialysis partner which mean I get her on her dialysis machine. I also respond if her blood sugar goes low as she is diabetic. For most of us, we have a lot of things that we have to do. Regressing and having "little" time is a more limited thing, not something that is full time.

Back to your question, I can't imagine and state in the U. S. passing a law that caters to adult babies so that they can live their life as a child at the tax payers expense.
 

HoganBunny

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I would absolutely not want this. Much as I may act as a child at times, I'm still an adult. Frankly, I wouldn't change that. Sure, there's stress with being an adult - having a job, paying bills, and so on ... but there's a considerable amount of freedom that I have, which I wouldn't have as a child.

Beyond that, the legal protections (which, in a lot of cases, are restrictions) for children and adults with disabilities exist because, largely, they aren't capable of taking care of themselves. That's not the case with most ABs, and frankly, I don't think anyone should be seeking special legal protections/restrictions simply because they are an AB/Little.

I'll admit, it would be nice to not have any adult worries, even if it meant sacrificing some adult freedoms (I don't know if I'll ever drive, and you can keep your smokes, sex, and alcohol) but there is a big difference between what would be nice and what is realistic. If we had unlimited resources then we could all live carefree lives and be totally taken care of if we so desired. The problem is that taking care of somebody's every need places a lot of strain on the economy if they aren't contributing anything. This can be justified for people with severe disabilities, but if you are capable of being a productive member of society then it is unfair to just take without giving back.

Perhaps there could be something akin to a mariage licence, where a big can legally adopt little, and the little can waive their adult rights and responsibilites for the duration of the contract. I can't see anybody ever putting this into law, but it might work for some people. What do you think?

I'd imagine there are some ageplay and BDSM relationships where such a thing exists.
 
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PaddedPuppy

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If the authorities got involved with our community rather than giving protection we would probably get falsely associated with pedophiles instead! Its happened before...

Anyway, no. AB's (or at least the everyday AB) shouldn't be given that protection. We are adults. We have adult responsibility and have learned what we need to know for living in society as an adult. Most of us have a healthy balance sorted for this where we carry out our adult tasks in public, go to work etc and then go home and indulge in their escape to the little space when safely home alone or with other friends who share the interest.

Some people push the boundaries a little, wearing a diaper for fun to work hidden under their clothes or whatever. But that's as far as it goes, and as long as they are sensible and respectful of their colleagues nobody would ever find out. It has to stay that way to keep a healthy balance. When you start pushing your little lifestyle into every single aspect of your daily activities, and every single thought that you process in your head, it stops being healthy. Anyone I know of who has reached this point has eventually had to get help to ease off for one reason or another.

If you reach this point and manage to convince yourself that you are a little to the point of needing legal protection, and other things you have mentioned in recent posts here, then perhaps such protection is necessary, but already exists in the form of the mental health act, and related policies in place. In my opinion if you truly have the childish mindset 24/7 and can not / will not shake it off to function normally in society then perhaps taking the status of vulnerable adult is necessary, where you have extra help from a responsible adult where necessary, and lose rights to partake in other adult activities that you have brought up here in the past, like driving for example. Along with that comes the protection you asked about in this thread, as it is decided that you cannot be responsible for your own actions, or making important decisions.
 

Akastus

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If the authorities got involved with our community rather than giving protection we would probably get falsely associated with pedophiles instead! Its happened before...

Anyway, no. AB's (or at least the everyday AB) shouldn't be given that protection. We are adults. We have adult responsibility and have learned what we need to know for living in society as an adult. Most of us have a healthy balance sorted for this where we carry out our adult tasks in public, go to work etc and then go home and indulge in their escape to the little space when safely home alone or with other friends who share the interest.

Some people push the boundaries a little, wearing a diaper for fun to work hidden under their clothes or whatever. But that's as far as it goes, and as long as they are sensible and respectful of their colleagues nobody would ever find out. It has to stay that way to keep a healthy balance. When you start pushing your little lifestyle into every single aspect of your daily activities, and every single thought that you process in your head, it stops being healthy. Anyone I know of who has reached this point has eventually had to get help to ease off for one reason or another.

If you reach this point and manage to convince yourself that you are a little to the point of needing legal protection, and other things you have mentioned in recent posts here, then perhaps such protection is necessary, but already exists in the form of the mental health act, and related policies in place. In my opinion if you truly have the childish mindset 24/7 and can not / will not shake it off to function normally in society then perhaps taking the status of vulnerable adult is necessary, where you have extra help from a responsible adult where necessary, and lose rights to partake in other adult activities that you have brought up here in the past, like driving for example. Along with that comes the protection you asked about in this thread, as it is decided that you cannot be responsible for your own actions, or making important decisions.

Quoting for truth. If you are capable of functioning like an adult, then it is reasonable to expect you to do so. It is unreasonable and downright selfish to expect the state to assume the burden, financial and moral, of caring for you, when you are perfectly capable of caring for yourself. If you are not capable of caring for yourself, that's a another thing entirely, but at that point you are no longer a "little", you are suffering from a serious psychological disorder, and while it is reasonable to expect the state to assume responsibility for you, it's also reasonable for the state to require you to undergo to psychological treatment in the hope of curing said disorder. And I'm pretty sure that anyone being treated for "True" Infantilism wouldn't be permitted to interact with other members of the AB/DL community.

There's no way that the state will ever allow people to formally relinquish their adult responsibilities by choice, even if they give up their rights at the same time. There are far too many people who would have an incentive to take advantage of it. Bottom line, the welfare state has enough issues with funding as it is, without adding to the burden.
 

Jeremiah

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I wonder if that can happen in the U. S.? I know you can commit yourself into a mental facility, and if you are found to be incompetent and unable to take care of yourself, the state would step in. You might have someone who would be your legal guardian and perhaps you'd live in some sort of half way house, but that's really quite different from what you're saying Sisi, if I read it correctly.
You are correct in describing voluntary commitment and the possibility of being judged mentally incompetent (not mentally able to function as an adult). In the U.S., we use the legal term "mentally incompetent" instead of "vulnerable adult" to describe someone who needs an appointed representative. A person may request a court appointed representative or other persons may request it on a person's behalf (family members, medical professionals, law enforcement). However, voluntary commitment is evidence of mental competence and is unlikely to result in an incompetence ruling. Involuntary commitment does give evidence supporting such a decision. Laws and procedures vary between states.

These laws do not protect an adult the same as a healthy child. I believe this line of seperation must remain and AB Littles cannot be treated the same as children. There are some AB's who could easily qualify for a legal representative, but they are rare and have other issues. Right now, driving privileges are based on reaching a minimum age, passing the required tests, and obtaining legal guardian permission. It would be asinine for us to make it more complicated than that. Mature adults grant themselves permission to drive. Incompetent adults cannot. Anyone desiring to live as a little, a Portland Oregon resident, or a New Yorker may easily skip the license and just not drive. Many Florida residents did not learn to drive until they retired to Florida. I hate driving in that state due to the many tourists and senile drivers not meeting my definition of "able to drive." The law reads another way.
 

Trevor

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Another time barking up this wrong tree. ABs and littles aren't babies and children, end of story. As noted above, the closest status to what you describe in the US is to be mentally incompetent. Given the sophistication of your communication, I suspect you'd have a hard time selling that status. It seems to me that being mentally incompetent preculudes the level of thought required to be an AB or little, although we might act like we're not all there from time to time. Experience, and the ability to learn from it leads us to adulthood, like it or not.

Personally, I much prefer having the option to behave as I will once the important stuff is taken care of. I don't care to be less than what I am, just to have the freedom to indulge, and oddly enough, that got better for me as an adult.
 

bluedinosaursocks

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I don't think so. Just because littleness is something that's often difficult to define, and you might have a whole bunch of people saying that they're little just so they don't have to do adult things. Being a little isn't as definite as being a child or being old (it's not something you can physically notice).

On the other hand, what kind of laws would be in place? Would I not have to go to work? Would I have to go to school? Would I not have to do taxes? Would I be able to purchase alcohol? Would I be able to drive?

If there were laws like that, I'm not so sure I'd want to give up my adult freedoms. It might be nice every now and then, but registering as a little would render me useless to society, especially if registering meant that I couldn't work and whatnot.

In short, it wouldn't ever work. But I guess it's kinda nice to think about :)
 
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BabyJayk

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Yes ok, I decided to say something controversial.

So should children's protection laws. Be extended to those with a childlike mind?

How would you feel if there was laws that where there to protect you.
But it meant that you had to register yourself as an AB little?

Thought I would liven it up a bit.

Hee, hee.

Yes I know I'm a very naughty boy, and I need to do time in the naughty corner.

Sisi

Unless you're an invalid no. The term Adult Baby, IMHO, means equal parts adult and baby, where I live child protection laws would prevent me from working and I really like my job (most days). Not only that it would isolate me socially from all the non-abdl friends I have (I have one abdl friend, unless you count Mommy, as of now and he lives far away) it would also prevent me from doing many things I enjoy.

For my part, I would refuse to register simply based on the principle that I don't believe the Government has the right to do what you suggest.
 

siysiy

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Hi everyone,

Thanks you for all your comets and thoughts.

I have read through each one of them,

The whole thing is hypothetical because as a lot of you have said, I cannot see any such law ever been passed.

And yes I do like pushing the boundaries, and I think that stems from my work with people with learning disabilities. Who I have seen push boundaries and limitations to become more than people ever said they will be.

I've also have to do this in my own life, because I have been told that I would be never be employable, and never pass the driving test, in the past.

There is a book unfortunately it seem to be out of print at the moment called "she will never do anything dear." That a mother wrote about the struggles with her daughter with Down syndrome. Against all the odds at the time she came as active member of society.

This book was the best thing that my mother read, as it gave her the positive outlook that I needed while I was growing up.

Anyway I didn't really think about Society looking after us totally, in the way that we would not have to work. A child has to go to school. And there are also children that look after their parents. If you are in a job that you like then you are lucky, for most people that make the best of it becouse it pays the bills.

Maslow says "what a person can be, is what a person should be." Self actualisation.
Peolpe Learn and grow, as a person, when we do things that we find fun if it was not fun then why are we doing it.

I wasn't suggesting that it would be a get out of doing anything for ourselves, I think that would be quite boring. My thoughts was more like, wouldn't it be nice to be able to be Little in mainstream Society and be protected by laws.

It seems that my imagination that I had as a child is slowly returning. Perhaps it something else I put down as I tried to be something I wasn't in the past.

I am going to give you the background to this.

My freand Paddy. Who has come to live with me. Has had a very interesting upbringing through the social services and child care services. And he has see things and done things that most people would never see in a lifetime. And he is a Middle In that a lot of his behaviour patterns are not those of a 26 year old, And he will behave like a teenager.
He see me as a farther finger he never had, and I see him as a son.

Now he does not have a driving licence so went to get himself a bus pass. However the bus driver sold him the wrong kind of bus pass. It was a weekly pass not a month.

So we went to the office at the bus station. And he explanen what happed. To which the lady explained that this was a weeks pass. At this he got up set and walked out of the office.

OK give me the pass and I will see what I can do. I said.

So I walk in to the office and smiled at the lady. "Hello." I said. As she smiled back. "Please can you help me. My son got this bus pass but it the wrong one, he needs a monthly one."

And then gave her the look, the look that says, please help me. She explained that if I was to pay the difference then she will change the pass to a monthly one.

Big smile and " thank you very mush." As if she just gave me a free sticker. Or something.

But it got me thinking if my son that needs help, with Society in so many ways, was registered as a Middle, just like some one with a disability would be. Just Perhaps he would been able to do this himself. And then my imagination took off.

We kind off look after each other. At the time I am typing this he has lossed his toy. Becouse it went over the fence to next door so my 26 yeat old, is going to have to go next door when they come back from work and asked for his toy back.
Hee, hee

But when I get a fuzzy head and the world seems on top of me, he knows how to look after me as a Little and bring me out of the head space. At those times he's my big brother.

Well it seem I gone on a bit. Hope the spelling is not to bad.

Sisi

 

CrazySmoker

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There's not any reason for that... If somoene is sick, so there are another "tools for fools."
 

siysiy

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There's not any reason for that... If somoene is sick, so there are another "tools for fools."

Hi CrazySmoker

"tools for fools." could you expand on that, please.

this sounds like being sat on the naughty chair until bedtime and then being sent to bed without any supper.

hee, hee.

Sisi

 

babyemo

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While there were times in my life that something like this would have been great, I have since come to the realization that it was because I was a useless, basement dwelling, uneducated, futureless, jobless bottom feeder. I found quickly that I have motivation and goals that being found incompetent would destroy. I want more from life than an easy ride.
 

CrazySmoker

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"Tools for fools" means psychiatria, psychologia, social services etc.
 

siysiy

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"Tools for fools" means psychiatria, psychologia, social services etc.


Arr. so you do mean. Being told off and sent to bed with out any tea.

Well I am a good boy, most of the time, well some of the time,
OK. But it much more fun to be on Santa's naughty list. And buying my own presents.

Hee, hee
 
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Perhaps there could be something akin to a mariage licence, where a big can legally adopt little, and the little can waive their adult rights and responsibilites for the duration of the contract. I can't see anybody ever putting this into law, but it might work for some people. What do you think?

You could make a contract like this with another person if you wanted. As long as you promise to do something (act a certain way) and they promise to do something (also act a certain way), it would be a legal contract. The absurdity of trying to enforce it in court if somebody backed off would be pretty crazy and might fail (like, okay they violated the deal, but it didn't actually cost you any money so you can't really get anything back even if you win the lawsuit). Regardless of the technicalities, it's already within the existing law between private individuals to make that sort of deal, and if some relationship works out that way, more power to them.

I, personally, wouldn't want to give up that sort of control to another person unless I suffered a severe enough injury or illness that it affected my ability to process information and make decisions.


I wasn't suggesting that it would be a get out of doing anything for ourselves, I think that would be quite boring. My thoughts was more like, wouldn't it be nice to be able to be Little in mainstream Society and be protected by laws.

No, it wouldn't be nice at all. The thing to understand about the law, and I say this as lawyer, is that the law is like a hammer. It works very well when its the right tool, but it's not delicate and it can smash things up.

In the case of something like protections for children, you can't turn those off if they're a law. Having society treat people of a certain mindset as though they were a child would be horrible. First off, as an individual, it would mean that I couldn't handle myself and do business as an adult even when I wanted to, which would suck. But on top of that, it would cause a huge problem for all the other people doing business out in the world because they'd have to worry that the transactions they were doing might not be legitimate. People already worry about that with kids on the Internet, but if doing business even in person, with someone who could legally get a credit card and bank account could be cancelled through laws protecting children, it would be a serious disruption and concern for businesses.
 
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