Server Upgrade discussion

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d4l

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The idea is that I want to give people a completely free choice as to whether they set up an automatic donation or a manual one.
The perks donors get are based on how much they donate, not whether they donate automatically or manually.
you misunderstood what i meant i was saying that you should have two groups a one time donation=donator status whereas multiple donations would give you donator plus status which would have more perks.
 
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Larger PM storage? That could be cool.
Aww! You mean people actually get that many PMs that they need more space? This... makes me sad... :(


I personally don't like perks for donations at all. IMO people should donate because they appreciate this website and wish for it to continue. I think giving extra thing to people who donate etc. kinda ruins that mood.
i totally 100% agree with Ben. he may not talk much, but when he does he always talks sense! :smile:

trying to entice people into donating by waving toys and sweets in front of them makes everything start to seem really institutional. we're a warm, close community, and we donate because we care personally about the site, not because we're taken in by some shiny reward that's been created to lure us.
This is why Moo is calling for increased donations. People simply aren't donating to this site, what with the lack of incentives and all. We all wouldn't have a site in the first place if Moo had to keep paying out of his own pocket for it. In the *ideal* world, this place remains a close-knit community where everyone appreciates the service and donates because they want to see this place continue running strongly. But we aren't living in such a world - yes, we may be close, and yes we all want to see this place thrive, but we just don't have a high enough number of donations to continue any of that.

Realistically, there wouldn't be a site if people didn't donate to it. As it stands right now, there isn't much reason to donate beyond the goodness of our own hearts and a few minor incentives. As "institutionalised" as you'd like to call it, keep in mind that you - in fact, no one - would be here if there were no donations at all. The fact that not everyone shares similar sentiments of continued growth and the close-community aspect means that only a handful of people are regular, or even semi-regular donors, and I certainly don't like the idea of relying on a certain group of people each month to keep this site alive. What if they leave? Who will step in and pay the bills? I certainly wouldn't be happy if I had to pay for a site where no one donated, albeit having many members who could donate, and above all, are prominent in the community.

Ben, you said, "people should donate because they appreciate this website and wish for it to continue." - That's exactly what I was getting at when I pointed out that not everyone shares similar sentiments. Do I feel people should donate? Yes, I do. But can we make them? No, we cannot! I'm sorry, but that statement is rather contradictory. This all goes full circle back onto incentives. People are just unwilling to donate, especially when there is a lack of reason to do so, except for their own goodwill. Incentives have always been a way to get people to do stuff they don't really have to do. It's a rather terrible thing, but that's just what we are like. Hell, I'll admit, I'm the last person to raise a finger when there is no reason to do so. I donated, but not the the coloured username or the status in the post-bit. I donated because I love being here and the services it offered. Just like buying music - yeah, I could just download an album, but if I love the artist that much, why don't I actually buy their CD?

Incentives are a good idea, but finding the right one's will be a difficult task. There is a lot that could be offered, but we have to be careful that they don't boost someone to a higher status above others. I agree that donations should be given purely because the person enjoys the services being offered to them, but that simply isn't the case.
 

avery

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This is why Moo is calling for increased donations. People simply aren't donating to this site, what with the lack of incentives and all.
actually, if you've been paying attention you'll note that the site has reached or exceeded its goal of $60 a month donations ever since the option to donate was introduced. and unless you're going to tell me they all did it because they want a pink name, they did it because they care about the site and not because of incentives.

we wouldn't need more than $60 a month donation if we didn't require a server upgrade, and we wouldn't require a server upgrade if we weren't trying to lure more and more people onto the site with google ads, etc. if you have to entice people to sign up with ADISC then you have to entice them to donate to keep the site running with all the new people, and you fall into a self-perpetuating cycle. pretty soon it's more about marketing than it is about helping people.

i think that as long as the site is reasonably visible on the internet people will join up here if they want to, and they'll willingly donate enough money to keep the place running. i think the whole system of rewards and lures is puerile and idiotic. only silly childish people can be motivated to do something by little toys and gimmicks. the only thing i care about is the respect and trust of the community and the friends i've made here. that's the only meaningful kind of status you can have here, and it's not something you can give to someone as a reward for donating.

If you don't like that idea, then leave me a PM or requests forum thread stating this, and I will ensure your donation doesn't get used for advertising.
obviously it's not that simple. my money is no different from anyone else's money once it's in your pocket. if you're spending money to advertise the site, then all donations go toward financing those ads.
 

Trevor

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This is why Moo is calling for increased donations. People simply aren't donating to this site, what with the lack of incentives and all.
Minor interjection and Moo can correct if I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure we've met the donation quota each month since it was instituted. The only complaint I've seen Moo make is that the cash tends to clump up at the end of the month which makes it a bit worrisome, and understandably so. I expect it didn't get the job done prior to having a number up there, but I've watched the balance pretty closely and I think we've always made the mark once we were aware of what was actually needed.

*Looks like avery beat me to the punch with the bit about donations...and his was longer besides! Ah, well. Just wanted to make it clear he and I were typing at the same time and it wasn't to jump down your throat, Lukie. :)
 
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It's not so much about enticing people to the site, avery, it's about allowing the site to grow. I've said it before, there's only two ways in which the site can go, growth or death. Surely you'd have to agree that you prefer the former, given only those two options.

I'm not going to argue with you on the point that advertising will bring in more people and we will lose that "closeness" that we have here. But I cannot deny that if we don't bring in new members and let them develop in the insightful, intelligent community we have here, then we'd just become like any other diaper fetish forum. Right now, we pose as the role-models for this community, and in hopes - well after we leave - that today's newbies will continue on in our fashion. This is why we need to advertise and why we need to have steady growth.

And yes, I had noticed that we have been reaching the monthly donation goal. But I was talking in the context of Moo's projected monthly goal after all the little things are in place - a total which definitely exceeds $60. I understand that this amount wouldn't need to be higher if we didn't require a server upgrade and we didn't advertise, but that ties back into the paragraph above. As we get larger, which ultimately we will, then we will need the bigger servers. Just as an initial outlook, once we have quite a few active members, then I would greatly support cutting back on advertising, since it would no longer be needed.

Don't get me wrong avery, I do love the closeness of this community and the friends I've made here. That means a lot more to me than just coming on here to talk about diapers. But I'm not one sit back and watch the community fold in on itself - not that that was happening, but it is one possible outcome if we don't set in place something to prevent it. If you are worried about it bringing in unsavoury members, then don't be. The current userbase is more than enough required to repel these people from the site, only at the expense of having to read one awful post on the forums. Through that, it is how we shine as a community. The one thing we all believe in is keeping those dreadful people out of here. Once someone gets the idea that they are not wanted, then they leave. I think if we focus our efforts more on being a honest and genuine community, the more filtered our new members will be. Understandably, that sounds a lot like a "Big Brother" state of mind, but it ultimately means the difference between keeping what we already have in continued growth, and losing everything.
 

avery

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It's not so much about enticing people to the site, avery, it's about allowing the site to grow. I've said it before, there's only two ways in which the site can go, growth or death. Surely you'd have to agree that you prefer the former, given only those two options.
the argument that the only two options are stratospheric growth or cataclysmic decay has been raised before, and i didn't accept it then any more than i do now. our site will not "fold in on itself" if we don't advertize on google. that's just a bad excuse for a bad decision.

during the year or so that moo was pretty much inactive (you were inactive at that point too, lukie) our site was not advertized and we had hardly any links on other sites. moo did nothing to promote us. nevertheless, we experienced a gradual steady growth in membership and posting. if we actually WERE facing declining membership and there appeared to be a real risk that the site might cease to exist i would support efforts to promote us more. but in light of the fact that we grow even when we do nothing, i think promotion can only harm us. as i said before, what intelligent person EVER clicks on an ad?? only morons would ever be suckered in by a google ad, and morons are not the sorts of people we want in our community.

i can totally understand moo's desire to quantify his success. if we see a 25% increase in posting over the coming month, he can point to it and tell himself and others that he's a good webmaster and his website is thriving and prospering. but i don't think creating a successful community of this type can be quantified. by that logic the most successful AB/DL communities would be DPF, deeker, and ABY.com. prioritizing quantity over quality in membership is a move that's aimed at turning us into a site like that. i wish moo would realize that he's already created a successful community, and he doesn't need numbers and monthly growth figures to prove that to anyone.
 
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Moo

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Thanks for clearing all of that up for me Moo. Good on you.

Anyhow. Regarding linking. I was speaking to BabyJunior before, he was saying to me something along the lines of this:

If I can get him full access (I'm guessing, able to use chat and view all but administration forums, view gallery and what not) then he'll put www.adisc.org as his Sponsored link for a month. You'll probably have to discuss the intricacies with him as it's his site and this is your site. I'm sure you can both work something out together though
:/

Access to the special areas of our site (VIP/regulars forum, etc) is not for sale at any price. If Babyjunior ever asks for this again, I'll ban him myself, and make sure he stays banned. He's already at -8 rep. Under the old rep ban system, he would only need 2 more negative rep points to get a ban anyway.
 

Peachy

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On the donations issue: Personally, I think an ongoing subscription is a rather cost-inefficient idea. PayPal transaction costs (0.35 cents plus 3.9% of the amount) plus transaction costs on my side of the deal (banking fees) eat up a lot of the money meant to contribute towards the website. When I donate (which I will do as soon as the flow of donations has gone down a bit - to allow for a more even spread of donations), I would not buy a subscription but rather fork over a bigger one-time donation.

In the light of that argument, it would be better to hand out "perks" (whatever they may be) for a time frame determined by the size of the donation. So someone who contributes $50 gets 10 months of $5 perks as if they had been contributing $5 for 10 months. I don't think different there's any ground for different "perk levels" as there's not a whole lot of perks you can give out in the first place (other than pink user titles).

Peachy
 
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Error404

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:/

Access to the special areas of our site (VIP/regulars forum, etc) is not for sale at any price. If Babyjunior ever asks for this again, I'll ban him myself, and make sure he stays banned. He's already at -8 rep. Under the old rep ban system, he would only need 2 more negative rep points to get a ban anyway.
Don't take what I said about BabyJunior as solid fact. I'm not quite sure WHAT he wanted, so you'd be better of discussing it with him yourself. I asked him to post in the requests thread regarding such, but of course, whether he has or not, I do not know.

I can't say I can even pretend to know what got him all that negative rep, he's only made two posts, one that was partial advertising of cheap diapers, and although that's not exactly 'OMG BANNAGE' material, -8 rep seems a little over the top, but that's just me. Maybe there's more that I don't know about, but, I'm just looking at it objectively. We rarely talk, so. I dunno.
 

Charlie

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I donate anyway, so naturally I think the perks are a good idea. :p

I think an extra line in the signature would be a good idea, not just for donors though. I'd like to be able to replace the ":::" in my signature with a space! :p
Aww! You mean people actually get that many PMs that they need more space? This... makes me sad... :(
Well not really, it just means that I have to delete them less regularly.
Most of my PMs are little and boring, or mod related.
I'm sure some people have proper PMs though.


On the advertising thing, I'd just like to say that me finding this site was a bit of a miracle. I didn't find through Google, I just found a massive alphabetised list of (possibly every) AB/DL site on the net, and after everything I clicked lead to porn, I scrolled down to the T's reasoning that a Teen site wouldn't have porn on it.
So I think advertising isn't all bad. :p

Although that a while ago, and this site is a lot easier to find now.

So I don't know, personally I think that putting links on decent infantilist sites is better than Google adds.
 

Little ollie

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Personally I don't like the new donation system as myself I do have money problems but do like to give money when I have it and if I was to donate often or each month quite often it would be a different amout and some months I wouldn't be able to donate as I can become very broke maybe a pm each month by the system to ask if they would like to donate this month and with how much they would like to.
 

Vladimir

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But what the hell would donors talk about in their forum? VIPs can speak about stuff that should stay between more important members, for instance, but anyone can donate and see the Donors forum, and there isn't any kind of thread really that should need a Donors forum.

Custom user titles COULD be a good idea, but it's something that's been associated with VIP status for a while, and I think it would make it seem less important if another group was able to get them. Plus, I think it would be unfair to have such a cool feature for Donors when some people can't afford doing so (like Darkfinn mentioned) because of age, budget or other factors. Encouraging people to donate is okay since you need it, but you already get more than the necessary amount every month (unless it's excluding costs for other stuff like software) so I don't think it's necessary to give Donors such... Privileged features.

I don't think it's a good idea to encourage VIPs to donate, or donors to become VIPs. People donate if they want to, and giving significant rights to donors would seem like VIPs are less important than donors. Donors shouldn't be encouraged to become VIPs if they aren't already, because the new secret requirements will just confuse them and I don't see how one can achieve an objective with no pointers on how to do it.

Maybe it's off-topic, but if they aren't there already, you should add options not to display pink names and the 'Donor' user title.

I've been thinking about colored names, but it would be too hard to distinguish someone's status and it's too significant compared to VIPs.

Maybe you could let them upload animated avatars, and let VIPs upload animated avatars and signatures, something like that. Or you could make a Donor library with related icons available for Donors.

I don't especially like the fact that there are multiple Donor ranks (unless they aren't displayed, then it's fine), since we already have too many different, useless groups (Lurkers, Awaiting Confirmation, etc.). It's all very confusing.

Also, if you have THAT much economical problems, then why don't you simply build the site with a free forum maker? It might not look as "professional" at all, but it's the community that counts, doesn't it? The only thing that I think would be a good reason not to do that is all the features you want to add, like blogs or whatever, but look at FTT. It's a pretty decent and relatively big and close community, despite the large number of newbies who joined lately. And they run on a free hosting website. But I also agree with avery about the fact that the more ADISC is advertised, the more it costs to run and the worse it becomes. I've already said it somewhere, but I've found TBDL because I actually searched, and I think anyone who has the motivation to go here and stay involved should find the site by themselves instead of seeing a sponsored ad when they type random stuff on Google.

Take into account that I read the suggestions as I read the pages, so I might have brought an issue that's already been fixed.
 
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Personally, I don't really care about the 'perks' of donating. I just donated because I had some extra cash. Though, I'm not to crazy about having a 'secret' requirement to attain VIP status or that you can actually expect soeone to donate $20 a month(quick math calculation, that equals $240 a year).
 

Darkfinn

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I'm gonna be perfectly honest here.

If I donate $20/mo... I expect to be a Mod.

I only think it is fair that if I am paying a regular percentage of this sites operating costs that I be allowed some say in daily operations.

Persons donating $10/mo or more should be put on some kind of "executive council" or "board of governors" and be given sway over how this place runs.

Don't get me wrong... I am happy with the way this place is being run now... but if I am going to put $100+ a year into this place (and I don't have a problem doing it) I do expect some return of investment.
 
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I'm gonna be perfectly honest here.

If I donate $20/mo... I expect to be a Mod.

I only think it is fair that if I am paying a regular percentage of this sites operating costs that I be allowed some say in daily operations.

Persons donating $10/mo or more should be put on some kind of "executive council" or "board of governors" and be given sway over how this place runs.

Don't get me wrong... I am happy with the way this place is being run now... but if I am going to put $100+ a year into this place (and I don't have a problem doing it) I do expect some return of investment.
Well, a donation is a donation. You give, expecting nothing in return. In that regard, you shouldn't be elevated to a higher status above other users. With your terms, a newbie could have a say in how the place is run... and if that were to happen, I'd be the first to leave. Nothing against newbies as people, but to have someone come in and not know anything about the place be given some sort of "executive power" is just crazy. VIP status is given to those who have demonstrated they are capable of being a reasonable, insightful person and not just another random who couldn't give two shits about the site. Higher status should not have a price tag - respect is earned, not bought.

I do agree with the return investment part however. But is there anyone here who does consistently donate $10+/month? I'll be honest in saying I only donate when I have the spare change, and even then it's less than $10. If someone were to donate that much a month, then definitely they should have a title to show that, if they wish... that's quite a bit of money...
 

Darkfinn

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But is there anyone here who does consistently donate $10+/month? I'll be honest in saying I only donate when I have the spare change, and even then it's less than $10. If someone were to donate that much a month, then definitely they should have a title to show that, if they wish... that's quite a bit of money...
Um... yeah... me. Not to brag or anything.

I'm beginning to see this place as a company. Moo cannot support the whole thing by himself... understandable... so he is looking for investors. Asking for "donations" of pocket change every now and then is one thing... but actively seeking a regularly scheduled source of funds is another.

Now in the business world when companies get people to invest they sell a certain percentage. If our budget for ADISC is $200/mo and I am paying $20/mo that means I am responcible for 10% of our operating funds. I simply want a way to ensure that my 10% investment would be used properly. $240 a year is a lot of money to just be able to look at a website. I want something more than access to a special (dead) forum and some words under my name. I don't think it is too much to ask that I be compensated for my contribution in the form of moderator status.

All the regulars here know me. I am an honest, responcible adult... and a pretty good guy all around. I'm not going to "abuse" my powers or do anything rediculous. If I did... they could always be revoked by Moo and I'm sure he could find $20/mo from someone else easily enough.

This being said... I don't think we would have to really worry about some "newbie" paying the $20/mo... becoming a Mod... and going crazy. First off... who is going to throw that kind of money away just for kicks? Secondly... even Mods are held accountable to the Admin. Their actions can be reversed if they are found to be unjust.

So... thus be my proposal. Take it how you will... I love this place... I don't mind supporting it in the least bit... I just want a little something in exchange. Sounds fair to me.
 
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Error404

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Um... yeah... me. Not to brag or anything.

I'm beginning to see this place as a company. Moo cannot support the whole thing by himself... understandable... so he is looking for investors. Asking for "donations" of pocket change every now and then is one thing... but actively seeking a regularly scheduled source of funds is another.

Now in the business world when companies get people to invest they sell a certain percentage. If our budget for ADISC is $200/mo and I am paying $20/mo that means I am responcible for 10% of our operating funds. I simply want a way to ensure that my 10% investment would be used properly. $240 a year is a lot of money to just be able to look at a website. I want something more than access to a special (dead) forum and some words under my name. I don't think it is too much to ask that I be compensated for my contribution in the form of moderator status.

All the regulars here know me. I am an honest, responcible adult... and a pretty good guy all around. I'm not going to "abuse" my powers or do anything rediculous. If I did... they could always be revoked by Moo and I'm sure he could find $20/mo from someone else easily enough.

This being said... I don't think we would have to really worry about some "newbie" paying the $20/mo... becoming a Mod... and going crazy. First off... who is going to throw that kind of money away just for kicks? Secondly... even Mods are held accountable to the Admin. Their actions can be reversed if they are found to be unjust.

So... thus be my proposal. Take it how you will... I love this place... I don't mind supporting it in the least bit... I just want a little something in exchange. Sounds fair to me.
Although I see and partially agree with your point, that just WON'T work.

Becoming a mod by donating is not only selfish but unjust. Sure, maybe it would work for YOU. But the last thing we need is a flurry of moderators just because they have the money to throw arround. A moderator should be picked for their skill and tact within their given specialities located in their personalities, not their wallets.

I do however agree and support the fact that donators should be able to have a say in what their money goes towards. Perhaps a private forum where Moo can discuss such would be apt, but modship? No. I can't agree with that by any stretch.

If I was going to be a moderator, I'd want it to be because I've contributed what's in my head and not my pocket.
 

Darkfinn

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If I was going to be a moderator, I'd want it to be because I've contributed what's in my head and not my pocket.
Totally understandable... and very admirable.

However that would only work in an ideal society.

Individuals have been trading money for power since time began. It is the golden rule... "Whoever has the gold, makes the rules." and I think if we ever want this place to grow and flourish we are going to have to address this issue sooner or later... preferably sooner.

The other alternative to private individuals owning parts of the site is to whore the site out to advertisers... and charge people a yearly fee to become a special member so they don't see the ads. I am a member of a few places like that... and believe me when I say that having advertisements all over the pages and in the middle of the threads is not plesant at all... I think we would end up losing a number of members because of that.

So it is going to get to a point where we are going to have to do one or the other. We can let people like me buy in and give them some power... or we can sell out to advertisement... then Google, or Yahoo, or whomever we let advertise will have the power... b/c without their advertisements we would be right back at square one again.

Which would you rather see?
 

Charlie

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Moderating is a job... Being a moderator is a donation in itself, just a donation of time rather than money.
The mods don't even make the rules, mods only enforce them!
 
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