Reconstruction of ADISC

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Takashi

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Thanks to mm3 for saying what needs to be said and thank you Darkfinn for your thread because it showed alot of problems that this site has.

First off I believe that we need to get rid of the rep system because what was originally an insentive to make good constructive informational post to get a title bar under your name has sponed wars over people's opinions. I belive that mm3 said it best with this:

Which is why I'm so anti-rep system. It's like a fucking Nazi party around here now, everyone's afraid of saying this, saying that. It's fucking bullshit, it's the internet not some Yacht Club for fucks sake. Say what you want to say and move on. You shouldn't have to be afraid of posting something because it might lose some imaginary points under your name. Everyone's always occupied with becoming a VIP, being a rep whore... It's all just really old. This site is all about the rep system, it's not even funny. People care more about rep then they do for the actual posts -- and that's just sad, especially on an **internet forum**

This is a God damn internet forum about DIAPERS of all things. So just say whatever and move on. Express your opinions, this isn't fucking Stalin's Russia we're dealing with, it's the God damned internet.

The fact that I had to rush to get rid of my "macro thread!" because a few certain people don't like what they are -- well I say fuck that, and fuck them! If they don't like them, then piss off and go read something else! You don't have to sit there and bitch about it.

This was brought up in IRC the past few nights as well. Like, I said "the game". Well OH NOES! I need to be banned! It's fucking stupid. Everyone was in there having a grand old time, we all had a chuckle over it. Why can't it just be let go? Who the fuck cares?

The only time I see it needed to take action against this whole "meme" nonsense is when it's becoming a neucience enough that it's becoming annoying and not fun to be around. Then take some action and ban the /b/tard. If someone is in there just having chuckles with EVERYONE ELSE IN THE ROOM then LEAVE IT THE HELL ALONE.

Take everything on a case-by-case basis if you fucking have to. It's your jobs as moderators afterall amirite? If something is playful enough that it's funny and entertaining everyone, don't fuck it up by coming in and banning those who replied with "I lost" to the game. It's funny, people like it, get used to it. And yeah, if someone is saying "THE GAME" every 10 fucking seconds, yeah, BAN THE DICKHOLE! No one's saying that's the wrong thing, it's just stupid to have to have regulations on discussion (or lack thereof even) that takes place -- on the internet, of all places.

The whole bullshit fact is that this whole forum has become just one big shithole. Everyone's always bitching (hell, I'm no angel), and shit isn't right. Look down at the "Recent Visitors" at the bottom at the index page. What do you see? A bunch of blue names like "babyme82375" or "gaydiaperlover88". Multiply that shit by 100. It would be best for this site if we dropped off from Google and shit and just CHILLED THE HELL OUT for like, 3 months. Close registrations if you have to! Do what some other sites do - open registration for like, a week every two months or something. We're being flooded with crap and fap-happy creeps, and it's really taking things sour.

We're not a tight-kint community anymore, no one isgetting to know each other like we were in the old days. And yeah, sure, the old days are done and gone, I get that, but for fucks sake, There's so many people with VIP status, and no one knows who the fuck they are (no offense anyone). Everyone is changing names, people are flooding into VIP status like there's no tomorrow... It's just another anonymous forum because people aren't taking time to get used to the people that are here already-- because everyday there's a dozen new people who we have to get used to at the same time.

The best thing for this forum is to get a scheduled registration regulation system going, and let everyone here chill out and get to know everyone else. Let us marinate. Get rid of this bullshit reputation system and contribute to this place like it is -- an internet forum.

And last but not least, the absolute sadest fact -- is that nothing that is said in this thread will probably not even matter. One bit. Not even my own wall of text above. Why? Simple -- Moo could just waltz in here and go "Nope, sorry, things aren't changing" (sound familiar?) and just close this thread, and nothing will be done. Why? Well, c'mon, admin says admin goes
rite?

Either make it so people need to say who they are when they give rep or get rid of it.

Hell just today I thought of following Darkfinn and making a thread on what people think of me. I wanted to make this because I want to know what the site thinks of me. "You need to watch what you say alittle better." or "Nope your doing just fine. ^_^" Stuff like that, but I didn't because I thought it would turn into another 'I'm leaving" or "Interview me" thrend.
 
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Wtf

Again?

We are in a closed system here.

The system is governed ultimately by Moo.

If Moo didn't want the system to be EXACTLY as-built here, he'd intervene.

Non-intervention shows that this is how the world of ADISC works right now. Fair, unfair, rep system upside-down and puce, this is what we've got.

I want to sprout wings (as I'd be totally unproductive if I sprouted a vagina), but that is not part of the system I exist within. So it is here.

That said, I fully support removal of anonymous (both positive and negative) rep.
 

PostTenebrasLux

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This is getting somewhat repetitive--what sort of damage is rep actually doing?

I think that non-anonymous rep giving sounds like a pretty fair idea. I've never signed a rep comment, but will consider doing so in the future.
 

Wegs

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Again?

We are in a closed system here.

The system is governed ultimately by Moo.

If Moo didn't want the system to be EXACTLY as-built here, he'd intervene.

Non-intervention shows that this is how the world of ADISC works right now. Fair, unfair, rep system upside-down and puce, this is what we've got.

I want to sprout wings (as I'd be totally unproductive if I sprouted a vagina), but that is not part of the system I exist within. So it is here.

That said, I fully support removal of anonymous (both positive and negative) rep.

This.
 

Pojo

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How about we just suck it up and deal with it. It's just a website people. It feels like some people freak out more about this site than their own actual government.
 

Maxicoon

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In the end the buck stops with Moo. This is his site and he is free to run it as he sees fit. Now that said we do get alot of creepy newbs here but I have noticed that they either get banned or just leave in time. But new members are how a site stays active and up. I think if registration was to be closed this site would over time die. Eventually we would run out of things to talk about. And as for the rep system who cares it's a fake number the worst thing it can do is get you moderated. We all just need to take things with a grain of salt and go about our business. Everything changes with time and nothing is permanent. And thanks to all the staff for doing a great job.



forgot
 

Jeremiah

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Priceless!

How about we just suck it up and deal with it. It's just a website people. It feels like some people freak out more about this site than their own actual government.
Priceless!
 

Moo

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Either make it so people need to say who they are when they give rep or get rid of it.

Making it non-anonymous would:
(1) Lead to an increase in the amount of invalid positive rep. Person A gives deserved +rep to person B, and person B naturally wants to give +rep to person A... whether they deserve it or not.
(2) Lead to a decrease in the amount of valid negrep. Person A wouldn't want to give deserved -rep to person C, because they would not want person C sending them nasty PMs.
(3) Probably lead to an increase in the amount of interpersonal drama on ADISC, particularly when valid negrep is given.

Removing it would:
(1) Mean we had to come up with new criteria for VIP status. Do you have such criteria in mind?
(2) Anger a lot of people who put a lot of effort into the rep comments they wrote over time.
(3) Probably lead to a decrease in the quality of posts. People being concerned about the quality of their posts (due to rep) leads to higher quality posts. People not caring what others think of their posts leads to lower quality posts.

I'm not saying there aren't advantages to both.
There are.

Making it non-anonymous would also:
(1) Reduce the amount of invalid negrep.
(2) Give people someone to take up their negrep with besides the staff, meaning we would have less negrep complaints to deal with. Besides this, perhaps a dialogue could foster understanding. Or... not.

Removing it would:
(1) Likely create a big sense of equality amongst members.
(2) Satisfy the people who don't like the rep system.
(3) Lead to an increase in the amount of wild/controversial posts.

What I ask you is this: are the disadvantages worth the advantages?

Are you sure?
 

d4l

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While i don't think it's feasible to remove rep on a temporary basis, Why not make rep non-anonymous for a brief stint as a test run?

Best case it works and becomes our new system, worst case it creates more problems and everything goes back to normal. We tested the invisible rep, and it quit whining about rep.

So why not test the non-anonymous rep? what is there to loose?

Plus if it fails horribly the people will quit offering it as a solution.
 

dogboy

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I believe if we removed the rep system, it would put a lot more work on the mods. Imagine an ADISC world where we can now say anything we want with little regard to other members feelings. I believe things would very quickly get out of hand, and the mods would have to intervene again and again. I think they have their hands full as it is, with controls in place.

I do think it is a good idea that rep has the name of the sender.
 
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Why not just make the neg rep non-anonymous, and leave the positive rep like it is, that way you won't have people giving back pos rep like it was a favor or something. And if you want to give neg rep, you can be up front and stand face to face with whomever you're giving it to. I think that's only fair. In a court of law, you have the right to face your accuser, why not here? But a compliment can still be given anonymously, and there's no harm done.

Just an idea, so what do you think?
 
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(3) Probably lead to a decrease in the quality of posts. People being concerned about the quality of their posts (due to rep) leads to higher quality posts. People not caring what others think of their posts leads to lower quality posts.

This is an as-conceived argument, as opposed to how rep exists as-built.

Were reputation about quality, then the argument would hold. However, rep as-built is about popularity and palatability as opposed to quality. This is not to say that it's always the case, but this certainly is permitted.

To make rep do what it claims would be to vastly increase the time required looking at it. This time may either be spent by you (admins) or us (users). I would rather the burden is placed upon us to at least take a first pass at rep, and this is achievable through signed rep.
 

Trevor

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This is an as-conceived argument, as opposed to how rep exists as-built.

Were reputation about quality, then the argument would hold. However, rep as-built is about popularity and palatability as opposed to quality. This is not to say that it's always the case, but this certainly is permitted.

To make rep do what it claims would be to vastly increase the time required looking at it. This time may either be spent by you (admins) or us (users). I would rather the burden is placed upon us to at least take a first pass at rep, and this is achievable through signed rep.

Do you mind explaining this a little further? I'm not seeing how attaching a name fixes this. If rep is valid, it's valid with or without a name. If you're concerned about spurious positive rep, having a name attached doesn't induce the recipient to do anything about it. If it's bad negative rep, the name has no bearing either, since it's still a post in the Requests forum to straighten it out and the admins know who is giving it in any event. Is it just that you think there would be less negative rep overall with a name attached? I'd probably buy that as a theory, but that still requires me to guess what other people will do as my given negreps are like hen's teeth.
 

Moo

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This is an as-conceived argument, as opposed to how rep exists as-built.

Were reputation about quality, then the argument would hold. However, rep as-built is about popularity and palatability as opposed to quality. This is not to say that it's always the case, but this certainly is permitted.

To make rep do what it claims would be to vastly increase the time required looking at it. This time may either be spent by you (admins) or us (users). I would rather the burden is placed upon us to at least take a first pass at rep, and this is achievable through signed rep.

It isn't permitted. We make an effort to remove reps that appear to be more about popularity than quality. We aren't always successful, though, but this is our goal.

Making rep non-anonymous would mean people would be more likely to give positive rep (they want others to think well of them) and less likely to give negative rep (they don't want others to dislike them, rightly or wrongly).
The result of this would be shifting peoples' focus away from posts, and towards "I want this person to like me". Wouldn't that lead to a system being more based on concerns about popularity?
 

Dawes

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Wait, I think I've read this thread before. A few times.

Have you ever had that bad dream that isn't really bad enough to make you scared, but instead becomes just a big fat annoyance that you've experienced before, and you're like, "Why did I dream this stupid dream again and wake up with a boner, again?"

Okay, maybe without the boner, but still...

Yeah, read this before. Rep, tears, unfair, rebuttal, explanation, no rep, tears, conversation dissolves.
 

Maxicoon

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maybe the amount of +/-rep that can be given in one day could be limited. This might make people consider more carefully the rep they give. Just an idea.
 

bobbyjeff

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I have not been here long, but it appears to me like reputation points have very little value here because they are infinite and largely uncontrolled. I don't know how powerful the scripting system of the boards is, but it would be nice if the ability to give rep, either positive or negative, came from some limited and definable source.

Making something rare will raise its value. Just ask DeBeers and OPEC, as they know all about it. There could be some sort of system where rep points are accumulated through experience. It could be time based: everyone gets 1 rep point to give per X amount of time as an active member. It could be post based, but that could be easily abused.

It would be really neat if it were a zero sum system. Everyone starts out with zero rep points, and every time a rep point is given, one is taken from the sender. This way all of the rep in the system would equal zero, and it would dissuade the whiner types from neg repping everyone at a whim. You have to feel so strongly about the post that you are willing to give up a point to make your point.
 

baby_mike

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Thanks to mm3 for saying what needs to be said and thank you Darkfinn for your thread because it showed alot of problems that this site has.

First off I believe that we need to get rid of the rep system because what was originally an insentive to make good constructive informational post to get a title bar under your name has sponed wars over people's opinions. I belive that mm3 said it best with this:



Either make it so people need to say who they are when they give rep or get rid of it.

Hell just today I thought of following Darkfinn and making a thread on what people think of me. I wanted to make this because I want to know what the site thinks of me. "You need to watch what you say alittle better." or "Nope your doing just fine. ^_^" Stuff like that, but I didn't because I thought it would turn into another 'I'm leaving" or "Interview me" thrend.

Feel free to sign my petition against the so called rep system.
I am with you on this on. To been honest i miss this site when it was tbdl.org
 

Mesmerale

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Feel free to sign my petition against the so called rep system.
I am with you on this on. To been honest i miss this site when it was tbdl.org

All I plan on saying in this thread:

Why?

I'm sorry for being so blunt, but I'm rather sick of hearing this nostalgic crap.

If you cannot tell me in a very detailed (And I mean a few paragraphs!) wall of text just why you miss TBDL so much, and how the differences are having a negative effect on ADISC, then I don't want to hear a damn thing about it.

Fair enough?
 
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This is an as-conceived argument, as opposed to how rep exists as-built.

Were reputation about quality, then the argument would hold. However, rep as-built is about popularity and palatability as opposed to quality. This is not to say that it's always the case, but this certainly is permitted.

To make rep do what it claims would be to vastly increase the time required looking at it. This time may either be spent by you (admins) or us (users). I would rather the burden is placed upon us to at least take a first pass at rep, and this is achievable through signed rep.
Do you mind explaining this a little further? I'm not seeing how attaching a name fixes this. If rep is valid, it's valid with or without a name. If you're concerned about spurious positive rep, having a name attached doesn't induce the recipient to do anything about it. If it's bad negative rep, the name has no bearing either, since it's still a post in the Requests forum to straighten it out and the admins know who is giving it in any event. Is it just that you think there would be less negative rep overall with a name attached? I'd probably buy that as a theory, but that still requires me to guess what other people will do as my given negreps are like hen's teeth.
Attaching a name to a rep would permit two things to happen in the case of negative rep:
  1. Confront the giver with the reality that the recipient may be contacting them shortly.
  2. Make following the rules with respect to rep more salient in the minds of the givers by removing the single-blind approach that the system currently has.

As I've stated, this (second item) would allow users a first-pass at figuring out differences rather than putting this onus on admins--who can only see the tip of the iceberg. It would also ultimately reduce the amount of negative reputation given; when you remove social loafing and bystander effects from a population, they become more personally accountable.


This is an as-conceived argument, as opposed to how rep exists as-built.

Were reputation about quality, then the argument would hold. However, rep as-built is about popularity and palatability as opposed to quality. This is not to say that it's always the case, but this certainly is permitted.

To make rep do what it claims would be to vastly increase the time required looking at it. This time may either be spent by you (admins) or us (users). I would rather the burden is placed upon us to at least take a first pass at rep, and this is achievable through signed rep.
It isn't permitted. We make an effort to remove reps that appear to be more about popularity than quality. We aren't always successful, though, but this is our goal.

Making rep non-anonymous would mean people would be more likely to give positive rep (they want others to think well of them) and less likely to give negative rep (they don't want others to dislike them, rightly or wrongly).
The result of this would be shifting peoples' focus away from posts, and towards "I want this person to like me". Wouldn't that lead to a system being more based on concerns about popularity?
No. No it wouldn't, and this is a false dichotomy.

Right now, there is nothing to stop me from giving people +rep and then sending a follow-up PM. Or to just sign all my +rep in the text of the rep itself. In short, users of the site can already rep-whore if so inclined.

Signed rep addresses negative reputation, and does so in ways outlined above.

This has been described and discussed ad-nauseam. As I mentioned earlier, this is a closed system; I'm not fussed about that. But for the rep system to work as it has been outlined requires either human or programatic intervention, as I've said numerous times before.

My hope would be that as much admin time as possible can be devoted to improving the site as opposed to wading through more mundane tasks as reputation review. However, the as-built system requires high-level staff intervention to review inappropriate rep.

This reminds me:


Which in turn makes me go after the "rest" of my thinking on rep (and all the previous threads involved):
 
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