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Prejudice against Christians

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Kovy

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I do NOT mean to offend anyone by this post.

What I mean by the title is that I am annoyed at people claiming all Christians act a certain way. Saying that all Christians are conservative, bigoted, hateful hypocrites is like saying that all gays have girly-voices and floppy wrists: it's not only hurtful, it's more often than not fictional! I am a Catholic, and I think I'm one of the most open-minded, accepting, and liberal people I know!

It may not seem real to you because Christians are not a minority in many places, but prejudice is prejudice, and it's unacceptable. Thank you for your time, please share your thoughts in a respectful manner. (The last thing we all need is a flame war.)
 
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Butterfly Mage

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I usually put Christians and Christian "leaders" into two completely seperate categories. I've had numerous very positive encounters with individual Christians. I think the vast majority of Christians actually do get the primary directive of Christ's teachings, which was "Love God and Love Each Other".

So-called Christian leaders are basically politicians. They manipulate people with words and concepts for the purpose of accumilating power and wealth.

I've liked most of the mainstream Christians I've met. I've had low opinions about Christian leaders almost every time.
 

Fire2box

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I do NOT mean to offend anyone by this post.

What I mean by the title is that I am annoyed at people claiming all Christians act a certain way. Saying that all Christians are conservative, bigoted, hateful hypocrites is like saying that all gays have girly-voices and floppy wrists: it's not only hurtful, it's more often than not fictional! I am a Catholic, and I think I'm one of the most open-minded, accepting, and liberal people I know!

It may not seem real to you because Christians are not a minority in many places, but prejudice is prejudice, and it's unacceptable. Thank you for your time, please share your thoughts in a respectful manner. (The last thing we all need is a flame war.)
Thank god someone is finally speaking the hell out for the Christians that get mocked and whatever else goes on that's socially acceptable. I am a 21 year old, republican christian yet here I am on a support site for diaper fetishists! Yet, anytime I made a stand for my beliefs on prop 8 I got shot down over and over despite having the two (now 3) best friends of my life either turn out to be gay or bisexual. I took a stance on a religious stand point, the first in a very long time since I became for lack of a better term a born again christian.

Also I don't mean one of those bible thumping bullshitter's, hypocritical assholes either. I'll invite friends to church once and only once, I'll never force it on people. Nor will I ever kill a person just since they have a different faith then me unlike some other idiots out here in this world. I can respect other peoples views, I just wish they could do the same without getting all pissed off and slamming others for their "traditional views".
 
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I do NOT mean to offend anyone by this post.

What I mean by the title is that I am annoyed at people claiming all Christians act a certain way. Saying that all Christians are conservative, bigoted, hateful hypocrites is like saying that all gays have girly-voices and floppy wrists: it's not only hurtful, it's more often than not fictional! I am a Catholic, and I think I'm one of the most open-minded, accepting, and liberal people I know!

It may not seem real to you because Christians are not a minority in many places, but prejudice is prejudice, and it's unacceptable. Thank you for your time, please share your thoughts in a respectful manner. (The last thing we all need is a flame war.)
There are ways that people act.
There are ways that people "ought to" act.
There are ways that people self-report as acting.

I think a lot of the complaint the West has against Christians is the incongruity of the above statements.

I myself actually strongly support people who go to provide aid, comfort, and human assistance - if they're doing it "for God" it does not diminish its impact.

That said, I quite strongly am opposed to people reporting they act in accord with a codex, while in reality doing anything they please. Which means that I'm not inclined to befriend folks who live by their whims during the week, repent in church once a week, and think that's okay.

I like Cairncross (the Scottsman, I can't recall his name right now) as reported by Peter Wright: He had done wrong (high treason), he had been caught, and he basically said, "yup. I did that. And I'd do it again."

Thank god someone is finally speaking the hell out for the Christians that get mocked and whatever else goes on that's socially acceptable.

[...]

I can respect other peoples views, I just wish they could do the same without getting all pissed off and slamming others for their "traditional views".
Bill O'Reilly has been doing this for years. If you've missed this in the media, you've not looked hard enough. Or are willing to dismiss this as isolated pockets. Your point is valid, but far from the first.

I am a 21 year old, republican christian yet here I am on a support site for diaper fetishists! Yet, anytime I made a stand for my beliefs on prop 8 I got shot down over and over despite having the two (now 3) best friends of my life either turn out to be gay or bisexual.
I believe you have drawn a false dichotomy here. The two (Republican Christian and diaper fetishist) are not mutually exclusive groups, meaning that membership in the one does not preclude membership in the other.
 
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Mako

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It is ignorant and pointless to group all christians together, because they are a vast group of people. It's much more efficient to dissect the points anyone makes rather then generalize them into claims they are not making.

, anytime I made a stand for my beliefs on prop 8 I got shot down over and over despite having the two (now 3) best friends of my life either turn out to be gay or bisexual. I took a stance on a religious stand point, the first in a very long time since I became for lack of a better term a born again christian.
Religion doesn't excuse ignorance. Having gay friends doesn't excuse support for oppression of equal rights. I feel you deserved to be shot down regardless of your justification, but thats a whole other debate.

I can respect other peoples views I just wish they could do the same.
People have the right to believe what ever they want, rather it be true or ignorance beyond belief. But when they vocalize it, everyone else has the right to point out it's strength's and weakness's. I see no reason why people should have to respect vocalized views that they do not find respectable.
 
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The loudest minority speak for the majority.

That's my argument, short and simple ;)
 

Fire2box

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Religion doesn't excuse ignorance. Having gay friends doesn't excuse support for oppression of equal rights. I feel you deserved to be shot down regardless of your justification, but thats a whole other debate.


People have the right to believe what ever they want, rather it be true or ignorance beyond belief. But when they vocalize it, everyone else has the right to point out it's strength's and weakness's. I see no reason why people should have to respect vocalized views that they do not find respectable.
Me having gay friend's was NEVER being used as a excuse to oppress equal rights. Like I said I took a relogoius stance on gay marriage just as how miss California did and guess what happens... exactly what you said, we get called ignorant, bitches and cunts and everything else under the sun. Yet when we gay people take a stand and no one uses anything hateful to debate about it we still get called hateful bigots.

Right now if you were in my position how would you feel Mako?


As for being a young christian republican with whats called a diaper fetish I meant that to be ironic and to prove that republicans aren't all uptight assholes that care for no one but themselves as everyone loves to portray them as.
 
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The problem is no one talks about the good that Christians do.

The media only brings up the things that they want to, such as the Catholic opposition to birth control.

A warm meal or an extra bag of groceries to make ends are just some of the hunger-related services provided by Catholic Charities. In 2007, over 6.5 million people received food services—accounting for nearly half of the services provided by Catholic Charities nationwide.

You don't see stories about stuff like that, except possibly on the local level.
 
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Mako

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Me having gay friend's was NEVER being used as a excuse to oppress equal rights.
Yet, anytime I made a stand for my beliefs on prop 8 I got shot down over and over despite having the two (now 3) best friends of my life either turn out to be gay or bisexual.

Like I said I took a religious stance on gay marriage just as how miss California did and guess what happens... exactly what you said, we get called ignorant, bitches and cunts and everything else under the sun.
The latter is not justified, the former I feel is.

Yet when we gay people take a stand and no one uses anything hateful to debate about it we still get called hateful bigots.
Theres more to hate then intent. If you make someone feel hated by supporting oppression of their equality for reasons for none other then a personal doctrine that they do not follow. Hateful bigot is not that far off.

Right now if you were in my position how would you feel Mako?
I would get myself out of said position and answer for my beliefs objectively as possible. Faith does not have the luxury of being objective.
 
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BabyWolf

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Even though I consider myself a strong Christian, I have issues with some leaders because many simply spout rhetoric. Believe it or not, it's perfectly acceptable for a Christian to question things. It's expected, even. Only through questioning do we gain understanding. Anyone can parrot an answer, but to truly understand something, one must question it. Unfortunately, many Christians, including leaders, fall into the trap of not questioning and simply repeat the same answer from with a very narrow perspective.

I believe, then, that much of this prejudice is not unfounded and Christians in general have sowed the seeds for it.
 

Fire2box

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The problem is no one talks about the good that Christians do.

The media only brings up the things that they want to, such as the Catholic opposition to birth control.

A warm meal or an extra bag of groceries to make ends are just some of the hunger-related services provided by Catholic Charities. In 2007, over 6.5 million people received food services—accounting for nearly half of the services provided by Catholic Charities nationwide.

You don't see stories about stuff like that, except possibly on the local level.
Pf... even that is rare. One of my stations over here in Sacramento News 10 only shows a good story at the end of each newscast on friday's. So they aptly named it Good Friday. The old adage "It bleeds it leads" still stands strong in media, just look at this swine flu BS.
 
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Mako

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Even though I consider myself a strong Christian, I have issues with some leaders because many simply spout rhetoric. Believe it or not, it's perfectly acceptable for a Christian to question things. It's expected, even. Only through questioning do we gain understanding. Anyone can parrot an answer, but to truly understand something, one must question it.
John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
 

dogboy

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Being the music director at our Methodist Church, I've seen lots of positive action taken by our congregation when people are in trouble. When Virginia beach was hit hard by a hurricane a few years ago, our church congregation gave a lot of money out of their pocket, bought building supplies and then traveled 4 hours to the east coast to help rebuild the homes of the fishermen who lost their homes and their livelihood. We even replaced a boat and a motor for one man. A year later when we had a church fish fry, he come from Norfolk all the way to us to provide the fish.

When Katrina hit, again we raised funds, bought building supplies and went to Mississippi and rebuilt a number of houses. When the Sunami hit, we did a big musical program in which I was involved, raised money and gave it to them. This is the real church in action. We don't have the talking heads on television. We have our differences, and we occasionally voice them, but when the chips are done, this congregation is there.

The most recent thing they've done is to support a black man and his children who lost his job and home. They found him employment and also a home for him and his children. The story will go on because that's who we are. Unfortunately the big mouths on television poison the well for all the others.
 
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Personally...i thinks one's religion should be Private. And I'm gonna leave it at that.
 

teddy564339

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To go back to the original topic, I'll use a quote I made in another topic so I won't have to retype a lot of the same thing.

teddy564339 said:
However, I've also done my very best to look at these issues from all angles and realize that it extends beyond just me...there are people who refer to themselves as Christians who believe very differently than I do, and sometimes when people use the label Christian they are referring to these other people, not really to me. So I've learned that sometimes you shouldn't take what other people say personally, even though that's a natural reaction. I would of course also offer the same advice to an atheist, too.


I think one big thing you have to understand is how much religion plays into politics and affects everyone. If Christianity did not affect political situations and issues in any way shape or form, I do think that a lot of atheists would be less frustrated with it. But as it stands, they can't avoid it.

The other thing that is really important to note is that atheists are in the minority. It doesn't feel like it on a site like ADISC, but in real life (at least in the US), it's true. Being in the minority is always extremely frustrating, especially if you feel like you can't relate to anyone or that no one understands you. In addition, it's almost like being gay or being a *B/DL...you can't be who you are and say what you really think without people's opinions of you dropping.

You mentioned that sometimes you've felt attacked on here...and that can be a valid feeling, whether or not there was an intentional attack or not. The thing is...my guess is that a lot of atheists feel that way in real life the majority of the time. And I would imagine that would be a lot more difficult than feeling the same way on a website.

So a place like Adisc is a great way for atheists to express what they really feel. A lot of times it's aimed at people they know or just the whole entity of a religion, not specific Christians on Adisc.

I really think these things account for the attitudes of atheists that you're observing. And to me these are very logical reasons.


I get the impression that the original post was concerned with attitudes seen at Adisc, even though that was never stated. If that's the case, then I think certain parts of this quote do apply.


I do agree with the point that just because Christians are in the majority it does not mean that it should be acceptable to have prejudice towards them....though I do believe that it makes them more likely to be targeted at a place like Adisc.



The other thing to keep in mind is (and this refers to a statement made about any group of people, not just Christians) that unless someone says "All Christians" then they aren't necessarily referring to every person who uses the label Christian...just some of them. I would prefer that people say "some Christians" instead of just "Christians"...but I've come to interpret it automatically, especially somewhere like here.


I will say that if one just says "Christians do this..." and is not referring to all Christians, then they should not be offended or claim stereotypes when someone says something like:

"Gay people are feminine".

Because again, the person making this statement may just be referring to some gay people, not all of them.

So I say you have to give the same treatment, no matter what the group is.



BabyWolf said:
Even though I consider myself a strong Christian, I have issues with some leaders because many simply spout rhetoric. Believe it or not, it's perfectly acceptable for a Christian to question things. It's expected, even. Only through questioning do we gain understanding. Anyone can parrot an answer, but to truly understand something, one must question it.

Mako said:
John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


Perhaps BabyWolf was referring to the type of questioning that you're referring to Mako...but when I read his post I had a different interpretation.


I do believe that the Bible teaches Christians to have faith in Jesus and His commandments without having doubts that they are right (though I don't think the verse you pointed out is an example of this...that one situation dealt specifically with Thomas' lack of faith concerning Jesus' resurrection, which he had prophesied...Jesus statement was aimed at a particular situation. It is up to personal interpretation to what extent it is extended to faith in general).

However, I believe there is a difference in questioning and having doubt. Questions don't have to be on what to trust and what not to trust...they can also be used to refine and find the details of one's belief. I believe Christians should and often do ask questions concerning situations in their own lives and their own actions.

I guess one way to put it is...a Christian wouldn't question the validity of the Bible, but a Christian would question various interpretations of it...especially if they seemed to conflict with other parts of the Bible.

I got the impression that BabyWolf was saying that a Christian doesn't have to just do what their pastor says blindly...a Christian shouldn't be a mindless sheep in that regard. A Christian can still evaluate something that they hear and determine whether or not it aligns with the Bible and the various verses in it.


Of course, I can't speak for BabyWolf...but I do think it is possible to live by putting faith in some things and using reasoning in others, and I don't think that Christianity teaches against that.
 

Chaoswolf

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lol I only label people by how they really are in person XD lol well ok when I really get to know them :p
 

bgi39jsjw0ggg

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Look, until there are laws being passed forbidding Christians from marrying each other, and as long as there are stupid people on the news that are allowed to spout stupid crap like "America is a CHRISTIAN nation!" without rational Christians telling them to kindly shut the fuck up, no Christian gets to play the "woe is me" card. Hell, I pretty much see religion as holding back humanity in general. Not only does it prime people's brains to believe other irrational and silly things, by pretending to have answers to questions, it stops followers from seeking REAL answers.

Oh, and those superchurches make me sick. So does mixing religion and politics.

FYI, here's how people should be looking at the gay marriage debate. First, your religion has no business mixing with law that applies to everyone. You don't want to get gay married or attend a church that performs gay marriages? Then don't. But it's none of your fucking business if other people want something different from you. They're not hurting you, stay out of it.

Simple layout of "the rules":
1) The law is not allowed to treat people differently based on gender
2) Person A can marry person B, but not person C because person A is the wrong gender.

1 cannot co-exist with 2. Either you abandon the pretense of sexual equality in law or you allow gay marriage. There is no other option, they are mutually exclusive. Now, if you can come up with a reason why gay marriage should not be legal that ISN'T religious in nature (remember, wall of separation), then go nuts - let's hear it. But I've yet to hear an actual argument against it that holds up to logical scrutiny.
 
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Look, until there are laws being passed forbidding Christians from marrying each other, and as long as there are stupid people on the news that are allowed to spout stupid crap like "America is a CHRISTIAN nation!" without rational Christians telling them to kindly shut the fuck up, no Christian gets to play the "woe is me" card. Hell, I pretty much see religion as holding back humanity in general. Not only does it prime people's brains to believe other irrational and silly things, by pretending to have answers to questions, it stops followers from seeking REAL answers.

Oh, and those superchurches make me sick. So does mixing religion and politics.

FYI, here's how people should be looking at the gay marriage debate. First, your religion has no business mixing with law that applies to everyone. You don't want to get gay married or attend a church that performs gay marriages? Then don't. But it's none of your fucking business if other people want something different from you. They're not hurting you, stay out of it.

Simple layout of "the rules":
1) The law is not allowed to treat people differently based on gender
2) Person A can marry person B, but not person C because person A is the wrong gender.

1 cannot co-exist with 2. Either you abandon the pretense of sexual equality in law or you allow gay marriage. There is no other option, they are mutually exclusive. Now, if you can come up with a reason why gay marriage should not be legal that ISN'T religious in nature (remember, wall of separation), then go nuts - let's hear it. But I've yet to hear an actual argument against it that holds up to logical scrutiny.
I would like to point out that pretty much every current major faith does not allow same sex marriage. So why you are picking on Christians is beyond me.

The only objection I accept to same sex marriage is the religious one. If someone's faith says that it is wrong, and that is why they object to it, I can understand that. It is when they try to come up with bullshit reasons, such as it hurts marriage and whatever else, that I will call them on it.
 
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mm3

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I'm an Irish Catholic, and I have gay and bi friends. My family never once thought the way that those of sickos like Westboro did and hated them. The way my family and my faith sees it, God made us that way so picking on those who are gay means you're picking on God.
 
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Being the music director at our Methodist Church, I've seen lots of positive action taken by our congregation when people are in trouble. When Virginia beach was hit hard by a hurricane a few years ago, our church congregation gave a lot of money out of their pocket, bought building supplies and then traveled 4 hours to the east coast to help rebuild the homes of the fishermen who lost their homes and their livelihood. We even replaced a boat and a motor for one man. A year later when we had a church fish fry, he come from Norfolk all the way to us to provide the fish.

When Katrina hit, again we raised funds, bought building supplies and went to Mississippi and rebuilt a number of houses. When the Sunami hit, we did a big musical program in which I was involved, raised money and gave it to them. This is the real church in action. We don't have the talking heads on television. We have our differences, and we occasionally voice them, but when the chips are done, this congregation is there.

The most recent thing they've done is to support a black man and his children who lost his job and home. They found him employment and also a home for him and his children. The story will go on because that's who we are. Unfortunately the big mouths on television poison the well for all the others.
I think there is much wisdom in your words here, Dogboy.

It sounds as if there is very real, "in the streets" helping going on in your church, and this is a good aspect and binding force of organized religion.

Unfortunately, it's harder to find these examples than the mega-ultra-super-duper-church leaders gone astray stories. Simply put (and as has been mentioned above) good news just doesn't sell, doesn't shock. Shocking news, gory news, now that wins awards.

Also, people doing the right thing and living quiet lives of impassioned struggle and meaning are much less visible than those living well outside reason.
 
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