Possible to believe in god and science?

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Bryce

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This randomly came up as I was talking to my mom today and I'd thought it'd be a good debate here. If it's not allowed, I'm sorry and a mod can remove it. I'm not trying to go against anyones religion or beliefs, just merely stating what I believe in and what one of us, me or my mom is correct in this.

So, I told my mom I believed in the science behind everything but I also believed in God for some things. She was very quick to say "I'd be afraid to admit that in fear of going to hell" to me. I'm thinking to myself, wtf? I'm not allowed to believe in both of them or what? She believes that one being created the earth, heavens, etc, but I believe in the big bang theory.

So, is she right that you can't believe in both god and science or is it possible to believe both?

So, what do you think?
 

satyrical

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Great question!

I guess you're going to have to define "Science" first, because science can mean anything. For example, I can't think of many Christians who refute gravity (though there are a few, I kid you not) or those who opposed using science to find medical advancements.

Now, assuming that by "Science" you mean "Evolution", well, there's really no conflict. I'm a theistic-evolutionist, meaning that I believe evolution explains how God made the earth. As my minister put it to me, Sciences explains how things came to be, religion explains why. There is nothing wrong with believing that God made the earth hundreds of millions (or billions, whatever the current estimate is) ago- it's that you believe that the Lord made it that matters to your faith. There's no place in the Bible that says God will damn those who don't believe he made the earth in six days.

So, to conclude, don't be afraid of science! It's how God does things, which makes it cool. If only it were less complicated...
 

chevre

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I find that often science actually makes it easier to believe in God. The more you realize about the amazing intricacies of the universe and how everything is in such a delicate balance, the more you can appreciate it. Often, finding the answer to one question might raise two more. The more we learn about the universe, inevitably the more we realize we don't know. There really exist very few simple things, and the simple things are only simple when we fail to understand them.
 

Chillhouse

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Of course its possible to believe in both. I'm pretty sure the majority of Christians do.
 

Bryce

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I need to just stop listening to my mom then. She's christian, yet she thinks we'll all go to hell if we don't believe God does EVERYTHING. I on the other hand, believe in god only when science can't explain nothing that we don't know yet. I know that's not very much but it's just what I believe. There's a sciencific method behind just about everything in my mind. The big bang theory which created the planets, universe, etc.
 
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sure, picture it like this. got created a molicule and packed it with all he could. he decided it wasn't enough and let it explode. he use the residue to create planets and life. slowly, he created life which he let evolve on their own. he let these creatures evolve and advance into sentenental beings. the first sentenental beings were adam and eve. i'll let the bible finish this story.
 

Bryce

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sure, picture it like this. got created a molicule and packed it with all he could. he decided it wasn't enough and let it explode. he use the residue to create planets and life. slowly, he created life which he let evolve on their own. he let these creatures evolve and advance into sentenental beings. the first sentenental beings were adam and eve. i'll let the bible finish this story.
Well, who created god then? I mean he can't just be there as that's not possible. Something must of created him to start with, right?
 
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there has to be some kind of start. why not let that start be god? why question it further if your not getting anywhere by doing so?
 

Bryce

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I just don't see how it could start with god though. Maybe that's just me thinking but meh. I've always been curious to how he got here so I guess that could be a lifetime research project of mine...
 

starshine

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I believe in both. From what I've learned, the bible is a lot of story telling to help explain things.

For example, I don't believe got created earth in the 7 days. That was science. Its merely a tale to help us understand how powerful God is, and to show that he is the creator of life.
 

Boogeyman

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I believe that you can believe in whatever the hell you want to believe. I made my own religion using that philosophy.
 

Fire2box

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This randomly came up as I was talking to my mom today and I'd thought it'd be a good debate here. If it's not allowed, I'm sorry and a mod can remove it. I'm not trying to go against anyones religion or beliefs, just merely stating what I believe in and what one of us, me or my mom is correct in this.

So, I told my mom I believed in the science behind everything but I also believed in God for some things. She was very quick to say "I'd be afraid to admit that in fear of going to hell" to me. I'm thinking to myself, wtf? I'm not allowed to believe in both of them or what? She believes that one being created the earth, heavens, etc, but I believe in the big bang theory.

So, is she right that you can't believe in both god and science or is it possible to believe both?

So, what do you think?
There is nothing in the bible that says we can't be scientific if there is I haven't seen it. As far as science goes I seen nothing from science that disproves god. I also was wondering about this up till the point I saw the movie Contact which really deals with this issue well.
 
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Mako

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Science can't disprove god, solely on the fact there is no evidence to give notion that he exists. Simply speculation with no physical and/or observable evidence, nor any theoretical equation.

On the other hand, belief in science and a literal account of the bible is incompatible. Science has quite firmly established that the earth can not only be 6000 years old, that there was never a world wide flood, and that jesus could not be taken to a mountain so high that he could see every kingdom on earth; that would only be possible if the earth were flat. The list goes on, but as stated this is only for those taking a literal account of the bible.

One could believe in the results science yields and god, but maybe not so much in scientific theory.
 

Fire2box

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Science can't disprove god, solely on the fact there is no evidence to give notion that he exists. Simply speculation with no physical and/or observable evidence, nor any theoretical equation.

On the other hand, belief in science and a literal account of the bible is incompatible. Science has quite firmly established that the earth can not only be 6000 years old, that there was never a world wide flood, and that jesus could not be taken to a mountain so high that he could see every kingdom on earth; that would only be possible if the earth were flat. The list goes on, but as stated this is only for those taking a literal account of the bible.

One could believe in the results science yields and god, but maybe not so much in scientific theory.
This also relies on the bible being translated right which I have doubted for some time now.
 

Mysterious

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Well, who created god then? I mean he can't just be there as that's not possible. Something must of created him to start with, right?
How can God not be there at the start, if you ask me, a creator being the start makes sense, because how could the beginning be just matter, where did that come from then?
 
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Possible to believe in god and science?
Absolutely, if you take a non-literal approach to the concept of God and religion. My own beliefs extend somewhat into this realm. I do believe that the universe is how ever many billions of years old, I do believe in evolution, but I also believe there is something that oversees everything.

Delving a little bit into the quantum world, we have something called the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. To those of you who are not familiar with it, it essentially states that you cannot concurrently know the precise location and precise momentum of a particle. As you observe one aspect, your other value loses accuracy. This chaotic order of things can only be combated by direct observation. Sure, we know the particle exists - previous experiments have shown that to be true - but any given particle is only proven to exist until we observe it in action. Until then, we can say it's in a state of both existence and non-existence. (Erwin Schrödinger alluded to this point in his famous thought experiment. When does a quantum system stop existing as a mixture of states and become one or the other?)

This model of indeterminacy over the existence of a particle would be too chaotic to support any sort of life if it were to be achieved on a grander scale. The thing is, we as humans know that life does in fact exist. We observe it everyday within ourselves, each other and the world around us. And we certainly know that it isn't entirely unpredictable. We have determined conclusively that, without a doubt, life does exist. This point alone is evidence to our very existence and demonstrates that we do live in one particular state of existence, not a mixture. So this really begs the question... what is the one thing that also exists exists, that is observing us all, that keeps our lives perpetual in this particular state?

My conclusion is that there is something that we cannot ever experience with our senses, get into contact with nor even begin to imagine, let alone comprehend. It doesn't exist in our domain, our spatial dimension, nor time. It is a higher state of consciousness that is there purely to observe not just our universe, but everything beyond it as well. Having consciousness, it is aware of it's own existence, which in turn allows it to observe our existence - therefore keeping us in that particular state of existence I mentioned before. Without it, there would be nothing to observe our universe and we would be thrown into chaos, effectively destroying the model of the world that keeps us alive.

To some extent, doesn't this "higher state of consciousness" sound like a bit like the typical God that is present in both monotheistic and polytheistic religions? An overseer to everything that exists, ensuring that our life goes on. I know this all sounds very far-fetched, but to me it's just logical. I don't rely solely on teachings of religions, nor am I that close-minded to the idea of spirituality. I hold values of fact & evidence, as well as faith & belief... as contradictory as it sounds, if you can understand this post, then you'll see how I've reached this conclusion. My beliefs are the result of a logical deduction from facts. The concept of a God can coexist with the concepts presented by science, however, it does depend on your perspective of "God".
 

Fire2box

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How can God not be there at the start, if you ask me, a creator being the start makes sense, because how could the beginning be just matter, where did that come from then?
This can also be used on god. where did god come from of course god has "always been". I have no doubt that god exists in my mind even with out proof of him I feel deep down god is real. Its mind numbing to admit something can indeed come from nothing or the highest being in the universe has always been and could maybe make something from nothing. This is my main problem from believing in science yet believing in god.

They co-exists for me but from a scientific point of view you got to wonder how everything start and it seams that it would have to end somewhere and if it does that can't make sense at all.
 

Takashi

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Yes you can. It's called being Wikkan and it is what I am.
 

IncompleteDude

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Well, I'm a Roman Catholic, so I'm taught to believe in science and rational analysis. That includes theology as such analysis in the framework of faith, but all forms of logic and science have an important place in modern Catholic dogma. The basic idea is that God wouldn't have given us brains if he didn't intend for us to use them. Still, the church does leave open the option of a literal interpretation of Genesis, for the older people I guess, because most church-goers I know realize that the big bang is much more realistic. Certainly, the priests incorporate it into their sermons from time to time, evolution as well. Clearly, science and religion mix very well.

As for your mom, don't even bother to challenge her. It's impossible to change her mind. Say nothing, just know that when her generation goes, most of them will take such backwards ideas with them.

PS: I dare you to tell her you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster when you're older just to tease. :p
 
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