Suggestion Please Move the Incotinence Section

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mikejames

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The Incontinence section doesn't belong under the "Diaper Talk" area and should be it's own stand alone area on the main page. Many members seem to agree.

People who only identify as IC shouldn't have to navigate though the fetish areas to get to the IC forum.
 

MarchinBunny

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The Incontinence section doesn't belong under the "Diaper Talk" area and should be it's own stand alone area on the main page. Many members seem to agree.

People who only identify as IC shouldn't have to navigate though the fetish areas to get to the IC forum.

As far as I am aware ... Diaper Talk isn't a fetish area of the forum. Are you suggesting those who are IC don't talk about diapers? I mean I think it's under the diaper talk section because generally those who have IC wear diapers right? I don't know ... seems fine to me where it is. But at the same time, I don't see anything wrong with moving it if it will make others happy.
 

Cottontail

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Are you suggesting those who are IC don't talk about diapers?

He's just saying that making Incontinence a sub-forum of Diaper Talk implies that discussions about incontinence are about diapers, which isn't true.

That's pretty obvious and reasonable--in theory. The problem is that, if you glance down the threads in the Incontinence sub-forum, most of them do indeed have to do with diapers. From past discussions, I know that justifications for new top-level forums must meet a pretty high bar in order for Moo to consider them, and the Incontinence sub-forum is pretty quiet. As is, I'm guessing that the level of contribution doesn't meet the bar for top-level status. Additionally, one has to wonder whether the types of diaper discussions currently happening in Incontinence would still happen there if the forum was on its own. If they instead moved to Diaper Talk, then the level of participation in Incontinence might drop below the already-low level of participation it enjoys today, making it even harder to justify.

A counterargument to that could be that participation in Incontinence is stifled by its present location, and making it a top-level forum would increase participation. The trouble with that is that it's an "if you build it, they will come" argument, which has been made in the past for other prospective top-level forums, to no avail. Mostly, for new top-level forums, Moo seems to be looking for classes of discussions that are a) numerous, b) presently homeless, and c) not generally aligned with an existing forum. In the case of incontinence discussions, none of those things are true.
 
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MarchinBunny

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He's just saying that making Incontinence a sub-forum of Diaper Talk implies that discussions about incontinence are about diapers, which isn't true.

Ya, actually I worded that wrong XD, what I meant by that is more along the lines of this ...
The sad thing is, IC and Diapers are pretty much directly related since if you have IC you likely wear diapers at least to some degree to manage it. Almost everything you talk about when it comes to IC again is likely going to involve diapers. I don't know, can you think of a topic that doesn't involve diapers in some way that you could talk about in the IC section? I can't think of many. Then again, I am not that big of a topic starter lol. :p
 

Sapphyre

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While I think this point may have been a little unfairly stated, I do agree that it's a bit strange for the IC forum to be beneath the general "Diaper Talk" forum. And I don't think it belongs there either. It's a separate thing entirely, as far as I'm concerned. It frequently involves diapers, sure, but there's so much more than that about it... pads instead of diapers for leakage issues, bowel issues, being unable to leave home for long, etc, etc...

My understanding is that the "Diaper Talk" section is more DL-oriented. And that makes it a separate thing.
 

MarchinBunny

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My understanding is that the "Diaper Talk" section is more DL-oriented. And that makes it a separate thing.

I don't think that was ever the intention. Diaper Talk is exactly as it says, it's a forum meant for talk related to diapers for any reason. Not just DL-oriented. However, we can't control what people talk about so it can certainly seem that way.

If we were to separate the forums and give IC its own area ... where should people post about diapers if they are IC? The IC forum or the Diaper Talk forum?
 

Sapphyre

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I don't think that was ever the intention. Diaper Talk is exactly as it says, it's a forum meant for talk related to diapers for any reason. Not just DL-oriented. However, we can't control what people talk about so it can certainly seem that way.

If we were to separate the forums and give IC its own area ... where should people post about diapers if they are IC? The IC forum or the Diaper Talk forum?

I think you are correct about the original intention, but the Diaper Talk forum has become very focused on the DL side of things (somewhat naturally) and the fact that this is conflated with the IC forum is bothering people. It should perhaps be renamed. ^^; The point is that DL issues tend to be very different from IC issues despite superficial similarities (such as use of diapers), and that's why I feel that they deserve more separate forums.

To answer a little more directly, if someone is posting about an IC issue, the IC forum would be most appropriate... as it is currently.
 

MarchinBunny

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I think you are correct about the original intention, but the Diaper Talk forum has become very focused on the DL side of things (somewhat naturally) and the fact that this is conflated with the IC forum is bothering people. It should perhaps be renamed. ^^; The point is that DL issues tend to be very different from IC issues despite superficial similarities (such as use of diapers), and that's why I feel that they deserve more separate forums.

To answer a little more directly, if someone is posting about an IC issue, the IC forum would be most appropriate... as it is currently.

Right. But it still raises the question, "which is the most absorbent diaper?" Where does something like that go if the person asking the question is IC? Are we saying the answers would be different based on if the person is IC or not? So let's say we still put those types of threads in the Diaper Talk forum. Then that would make the IC forum a whole lot less used than it already is. Let's say we allow it to be in both forums. Then we would just have many duplicate threads for absolutly no good reason.

I do understand that IC issues are different, but just because they are different doesn't mean it requires a new section for it. I think people are focusing too much on the categories and what is posted there as if they mean something when they don't. IC just fits better under the diaper talk forum because that is typically what is talked about with IC issues. Who cares if the diaper talk forum is filled with topics a person doesn't like. Just ignore them, it doesn't have to be complicated.

The fact this is an AB/DL/IC support forum, you have to expect to come across AB/DL stuff. If you are here just for IC issues, sorry but I think it's silly to expect to try and seperate everything just so they don't have to come across AB/DL stuff. This is a support forum for all 3, not just IC.

Edit: Also, how would IC having it's own area ... change anything? The majority of members here are AB/DL. This mean the IC section is still going to have AB/DL. So those who are only IC here, which is rare, would still have to get answers from AB/DL.

Also let's look at the current threads in the Diaper Talk area and see if it really is DL related.

"What brand are these diapers" - Looks to be to be AB related more than DL related.
"Reassure Overnight Briefs" - It's an IC safe thread not DL related at all.
"Most absorbant diaper/pull-up for kids" - AB related probably
"How often do you poop" - Truthfully this probably doesn't fall under anything as it's more general.
"Depend cloth or plastic back again" - Again IC safe, not DL related.
"Diaper Changing Restrooms for Adults" - Can be related to IC indeviduals as well, again not DL related.
"Hypnosis" - Mainly AB related.

I can go on and on. Frankly this section to me looks to be exactly what it's about. Diapers. There doesn't seem to be any strong indication it's heavily DL related. You may see a thread now and then that maybe fetishy ... but that is because again this is a forum for AB/DL/IC. You are going to see variations of threads to do with these. The fetishy sorts of threads are extremely rare from my perspective and they typically don't even last long.
 
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Sapphyre

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I do understand that IC issues are different, but just because they are different doesn't mean it requires a new section for it. I think people are focusing too much on the categories and what is posted there as if they mean something when they don't. IC just fits better under the diaper talk forum because that is typically what is talked about with IC issues. Who cares if the diaper talk forum is filled with topics a person doesn't like. Just ignore them, it doesn't have to be complicated.

Sorry to truncate the quote, but I feel I'm addressing the essence of it here.

These are extremely sensitive topics for many people to discuss at all, and some who are IC have been mis-labeled in their life as DL or AB and vice versa, so it is difficult, emotionally, for them to ignore the unusually short distance between those two forums. And since the whole point of this site is support, I'd think it should focus on maximizing such comfort levels as far as is reasonably possible.

The fact this is an AB/DL/IC support forum, you have to expect to come across AB/DL stuff. If you are here just for IC issues, sorry but I think it's silly to expect to try and seperate everything just so they don't have to come across AB/DL stuff. This is a support forum for all 3, not just IC.

I'll add a little here. There is the Sissy / Girls forum too, which is also a little bit different than AB/DL or IC, especially if being transgendered is involved. But it is its own separate forum, as it should be. I don't honestly see separating AB/DL from IC as being very different in this respect.
 

MarchinBunny

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Sorry to truncate the quote, but I feel I'm addressing the essence of it here.

These are extremely sensitive topics for many people to discuss at all, and some who are IC have been mis-labeled in their life as DL or AB and vice versa, so it is difficult, emotionally, for them to ignore the unusually short distance between those two forums. And since the whole point of this site is support, I'd think it should focus on maximizing such comfort levels as far as is reasonably possible.
I have never in my life seen someone who is IC get mislabeled as being a DL or AB. Maybe here they might, but that will occur regardless of where the forum is located because the majority of people here are those things.

Where a forum is located doesn't change the support here. The forums are not organized for comfort level, they are organized for organization.

I'll add a little here. There is the Sissy / Girls forum too, which is also a little bit different than AB/DL or IC, especially if being transgendered is involved. But it is its own separate forum, as it should be. I don't honestly see separating AB/DL from IC as being very different in this respect.

The reason there is a Sissy/Girls forum is because of how common it is. It's common enough that it needs its own section otherwise other forum areas would be filled with it. Again, it's more about organization.

What is being suggested here is separating them just for the sake that a very few uncomfortable people will feel more comfortable. So where does it stop? What if I feel uncomfortable with the Sissy forums being grouped in with transgender issues? Does that mean we should separate that too?

Edit: BTW sorry if I am coming off as argumentative. >.<
 

miapeters

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I'm definitely for this, a seperate incontinence section makes sense, it's a topic of it's own.
 

w0lfpack91

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I'm definitely for this, a seperate incontinence section makes sense, it's a topic of it's own.
When thinking from logic you're right that makes sense but then you also have to take into account the financing aspect of it when it comes to web design you can't just wave a magic wand and automatically have a new page it costs money in a perfect world it would just exist I don't know the exact Finance status of this site or Moo but without an increase in finance creating a new form would take resources away from other aspects of the site. I know it's been discussed in Prior news updates from Moo about the site remaining crowdfunded by donations and not putting ads on the site to generate Revenue and the main point on that is because it is classified as a fetish site even though it is a support group some of the only advertisers that would jump on this right away would be p*** sites which would greatly diminish the quality of the site it would also cause a lot of the users the start using more Adblock apps which would essentially negate the use of ads in the first place so it's a lose-lose situation the only way for the site to remain as friendly as it has and still cater to the needs of all of its users is to remain crowdfunding which goes back to why a lot of forums don't get created or separated for smaller interest there's the group's section which is highly underused in my opinion.

But moral of the story unless they're willing to front the bill for the allocation of new resources I know from managing a few other websites web space is at a premium these days with everything going online especially if you have your own domain like this site does.

So logical? Yes! Feasible? Not really, no.
 

miapeters

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When thinking from logic you're right that makes sense but then you also have to take into account the financing aspect of it when it comes to web design you can't just wave a magic wand and automatically have a new page it costs money in a perfect world it would just exist I don't know the exact Finance status of this site or Moo but without an increase in finance creating a new form would take resources away from other aspects of the site. I know it's been discussed in Prior news updates from Moo about the site remaining crowdfunded by donations and not putting ads on the site to generate Revenue and the main point on that is because it is classified as a fetish site even though it is a support group some of the only advertisers that would jump on this right away would be p*** sites which would greatly diminish the quality of the site it would also cause a lot of the users the start using more Adblock apps which would essentially negate the use of ads in the first place so it's a lose-lose situation the only way for the site to remain as friendly as it has and still cater to the needs of all of its users is to remain crowdfunding which goes back to why a lot of forums don't get created or separated for smaller interest there's the group's section which is highly underused in my opinion.

But moral of the story unless they're willing to front the bill for the allocation of new resources I know from managing a few other websites web space is at a premium these days with everything going online especially if you have your own domain like this site does.

So logical? Yes! Feasible? Not really, no.

It makes sense, that's all I said, I'm with the suggestion, this isn't a strike post. If possible they will change it, which will be good, if not we aren't going to start world war 3. Calm down
 

Kaliborio

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When thinking from logic you're right that makes sense but then you also have to take into account the financing aspect of it when it comes to web design you can't just wave a magic wand and automatically have a new page it costs money in a perfect world it would just exist I don't know the exact Finance status of this site or Moo but without an increase in finance creating a new form would take resources away from other aspects of the site. I know it's been discussed in Prior news updates from Moo about the site remaining crowdfunded by donations and not putting ads on the site to generate Revenue and the main point on that is because it is classified as a fetish site even though it is a support group some of the only advertisers that would jump on this right away would be p*** sites which would greatly diminish the quality of the site it would also cause a lot of the users the start using more Adblock apps which would essentially negate the use of ads in the first place so it's a lose-lose situation the only way for the site to remain as friendly as it has and still cater to the needs of all of its users is to remain crowdfunding which goes back to why a lot of forums don't get created or separated for smaller interest there's the group's section which is highly underused in my opinion.

But moral of the story unless they're willing to front the bill for the allocation of new resources I know from managing a few other websites web space is at a premium these days with everything going online especially if you have your own domain like this site does.

So logical? Yes! Feasible? Not really, no.

WHOA. Hold up.

Speaking as a fellow webspace owner and forum administrator of several years' experience - people aren't proposing to build a new website here. They're proposing to move existing content (the Incontinence forum) from one level below the top level, to the top level. They aren't asking for new content, they're asking for existing content to be moved. It's very unlikely that there are going to be increased webspace costs.

That, and considering this board is based on vBulletin, creating a new section really is as simple as, well, waving a magic wand.
 

Slomo

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Incontinence does not directly equal diapers. There are many different ways to try and manage incontinence (from denial all the way up through surgery).
 

mikejames

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As far as I am aware ... Diaper Talk isn't a fetish area of the forum. Are you suggesting those who are IC don't talk about diapers? I mean I think it's under the diaper talk section because generally those who have IC wear diapers right? I don't know ... seems fine to me where it is. But at the same time, I don't see anything wrong with moving it if it will make others happy.

No I'm suggesting some people might just be pure IC and non ABDL and might want to have a forum to discuss incontinence. Not all incontinent people rely on diapers, so it makes no sense to bury the incontinence forum under the diaper forum. Secondly, the website brands itself as AB/DL/IC support site, suggesting that in equal parts....but then buries the IC section under the DL sub.

Diapers are a small part of incontinence. Some people don't use/need them at all to manage. Some try meds, surgery, behavioral modifications etc etc etc before using diapers. An IC person coming here for IC support might not think to look for it under the DL sub.

- - - Updated - - -

WHOA. Hold up.

Speaking as a fellow webspace owner and forum administrator of several years' experience - people aren't proposing to build a new website here. They're proposing to move existing content (the Incontinence forum) from one level below the top level, to the top level. They aren't asking for new content, they're asking for existing content to be moved. It's very unlikely that there are going to be increased webspace costs.

That, and considering this board is based on vBulletin, creating a new section really is as simple as, well, waving a magic wand.

Exactly. I'm simply suggesting moving the IC forum out from under the DL forum and that's all. Cost = $0.

I can't believe how ridiculous some of these responses have been.

- - - Updated - - -

While I think this point may have been a little unfairly stated, I do agree that it's a bit strange for the IC forum to be beneath the general "Diaper Talk" forum. And I don't think it belongs there either. It's a separate thing entirely, as far as I'm concerned. It frequently involves diapers, sure, but there's so much more than that about it... pads instead of diapers for leakage issues, bowel issues, being unable to leave home for long, etc, etc...

My understanding is that the "Diaper Talk" section is more DL-oriented. And that makes it a separate thing.

How was it "unfairly stated". What does that even mean?

I noticed that the IC section is buried and brought it up. What's "unfair" about that?

What I bolded is the crux of the matter. This website is supposed to be AB/DL/IC support. The AB's have the AB/Littles area, the "Diaper Talk" section is obviously appealing to and aimed toward DL's, and then there should be an IC area as a stand alone area, not buried under Diaper Talk. Obviously there would be cross over. AB/Littles surely read the "Diaper Talk" area since diapers are of interest to Adult babies. Surely the non-fetish incontinent people would look at the Diaper Talk section too as there's likely relevant info in there if they're managing with diapers. But there's a TON of aspects to being IC that has nothing to do with diapers (meds, doctors visit prep/expectations, catheters, condom caths, various surgeries, mixed treatments, coping with life having this problem, and yes, diapers.).
 
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MarchinBunny

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Incontinence does not directly equal diapers. There are many different ways to try and manage incontinence (from denial all the way up through surgery).

No I'm suggesting some people might just be pure IC and non ABDL and might want to have a forum to discuss incontinence. Not all incontinent people rely on diapers, so it makes no sense to bury the incontinence forum under the diaper forum. Secondly, the website brands itself as AB/DL/IC support site, suggesting that in equal parts....but then buries the IC section under the DL sub.

Diapers are a small part of incontinence. Some people don't use/need them at all to manage. Some try meds, surgery, behavioral modifications etc etc etc before using diapers. An IC person coming here for IC support might not think to look for it under the DL sub.

Ok ... first off all. I understand incontinence does not directly equal diapers, but here .... on this forum, it pretty much does. If someone was strictly IC and wanted support that had nothing to do with diapers they wouldn't be here looking for that support. I don't even understand why a person who is only IC and doesn't wear diapers would come to a site where the majority of the community likes them and wears them willingly.


Second the IC section is not "burried" in the DL section, it's at the very top. It's simply not on the main page. That to me is no where near as big of a deal as you seem to be making it. Putting it on the front page, I already explained the issues that would occur by seperating.

How was it "unfairly stated". What does that even mean?

Because you called it "the fetish areas" without realizing a large majority here do not even consider it a fetish. The diaper talk area isn't even a fetish area of the site either .. it just includes it and I already went over the topics in that section and it is NOT heavily or strictly DL related. I would say the topics are fairly equal in proportion for AB/DL/IC.

What I bolded is the crux of the matter.

Except when you actually look at what is in there, what you bolded is actually a statement that isn't true.

the "Diaper Talk" section is obviously appealing to and aimed toward DL's

No it's not. It's a diaper related section, that applies to everything here. Not just DL.

Obviously there would be cross over. AB/Littles surely read the "Diaper Talk" area since diapers are of interest to Adult babies.

Same with IC

But there's a TON of aspects to being IC that has nothing to do with diapers (meds, doctors visit prep/expectations, catheters, condom caths, various surgeries, mixed treatments, coping with life having this problem, and yes, diapers.).

Yes, a whole bunch of topics that are uninteresting to talk about and thus no one ever talks about them. The IC section rarely has anything like that being talked about and it has nothing to do with it being "burried" becaue it is not burried.

Look, I don't have issue with it being moved. However, you need to give good reasons as to why and you need to be able to show that these reasons are legitmate. To me it sounds like you just decided it should be moved without much thought into the matter. You want it to be moved just to move it, not because it's actually needed.
 

Sapphyre

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Ok ... first off all. I understand incontinence does not directly equal diapers, but here .... on this forum, it pretty much does. If someone was strictly IC and wanted support that had nothing to do with diapers they wouldn't be here looking for that support. I don't even understand why a person who is only IC and doesn't wear diapers would come to a site where the majority of the community likes them and wears them willingly.


Second the IC section is not "burried" in the DL section, it's at the very top. It's simply not on the main page. That to me is no where near as big of a deal as you seem to be making it. Putting it on the front page, I already explained the issues that would occur by seperating.



Because you called it "the fetish areas" without realizing a large majority here do not even consider it a fetish. The diaper talk area isn't even a fetish area of the site either .. it just includes it and I already went over the topics in that section and it is NOT heavily or strictly DL related. I would say the topics are fairly equal in proportion for AB/DL/IC.



Except when you actually look at what is in there, what you bolded is actually a statement that isn't true.



No it's not. It's a diaper related section, that applies to everything here. Not just DL.



Same with IC



Yes, a whole bunch of topics that are uninteresting to talk about and thus no one ever talks about them. The IC section rarely has anything like that being talked about and it has nothing to do with it being "burried" becaue it is not burried.

Look, I don't have issue with it being moved. However, you need to give good reasons as to why and you need to be able to show that these reasons are legitmate. To me it sounds like you just decided it should be moved without much thought into the matter. You want it to be moved just to move it, not because it's actually needed.

I've mostly decided that I'm not going to get into this again, but there are a few points that I feel need to be addressed. So I'll stick my neck out one more time.

Even here, on this forum, incontinence != diapers. Most of my own issues in this regard are best addressed by things like pads, not diapers. Most of my usage of diapers is recreational, and only occasionally something medically necessary. I consider myself lucky to have that level of discretion. I don't want to need diapers! And, by and large, I don't. I'm grateful.

Having said that, wearing out of need is VERY characteristically different from wearing recreationally. On a superficial level, both involve diapers, so it might seem the same. But it's not. The feelings and emotional issues involved are completely different, and deserve to be addressed in a separate forum which recognizes that difference.

It is a separate topic, and therefore deserves its own space.
 

MarchinBunny

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I've mostly decided that I'm not going to get into this again, but there are a few points that I feel need to be addressed. So I'll stick my neck out one more time.

Even here, on this forum, incontinence != diapers. Most of my own issues in this regard are best addressed by things like pads, not diapers. Most of my usage of diapers is recreational, and only occasionally something medically necessary. I consider myself lucky to have that level of discretion. I don't want to need diapers! And, by and large, I don't. I'm grateful.

Having said that, wearing out of need is VERY characteristically different from wearing recreationally. On a superficial level, both involve diapers, so it might seem the same. But it's not. The feelings and emotional issues involved are completely different, and deserve to be addressed in a separate forum which recognizes that difference.

It is a separate topic, and therefore deserves its own space.

Let's make it easy since everyone seems to be having a hard time with this. What you all need to do is to actually give a valid reason why IC needs its own section on the main page? You have to give a reason that has absolutely nothing to do with emotions. Not cause it makes you feel better. The reason also has to be good enough to justify all the work and time it would take to move the section.

What would change by it having its own section on the main page? How would it help adisc? Also, You do know it's going to create even more work for moderators to have to deal with all the new duplicate threads that will inevitably pop up because of it ... right?

Also, it being a separate topic, isn't a reason to have it's own space. Transgender is a seperate topic from Sissies ... where is it's own space on the main page? Oh wait .. transgender doesn't even have a space at all actually, it's just grouped in with sissies. Not even as a sub forum either. Soemthing being a separate topic isn't a good reason. There are tons of things that are saparate topics that do not require being on the main page.
 
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Sapphyre

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Let's make it easy since everyone seems to be having a hard time with this. What you all need to do is to actually give a valid reason why IC needs its own section on the main page? You have to give a reason that has absolutely nothing to do with emotions. Not cause it makes you feel better. The reason also has to be good enough to justify all the work and time it would take to move the section.

What would change by it having its own section on the main page? How would it help adisc? Also, You do know it's going to create even more work for moderators to have to deal with all the new duplicate threads that will inevitably pop up because of it ... right?

Also, it being a separate topic, isn't a reason to have it's own space. Transgender is a seperate topic from Sissies ... where is it's own space on the main page? Oh wait .. transgender doesn't even have a space at all actually, it's just grouped in with sissies. Not even as a sub forum either. Soemthing being a separate topic isn't a good reason. There are tons of things that are saparate topics that do not require being on the main page.

I see this a little bit oppositely. Actually, I do feel that TG deserves a separate forum from Sissies. But... one thing at a time. Moving the IC forum should not be as strenuous as creating a new forum for TG. It's already there, it just needs to be relocated. I don't see why it should be any big deal save for the fact that its present location is bothersome to those who have to wear some form of protection and don't particularly enjoy it.
 
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