Objectification of Women in the ABDL community

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AmenoSei

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Yeah it is haha sorry I was watching something at the same time I was writing and lost my train of thought but that's exactly what I was trying to get at. It's also easy for people to sit behind their computer screen and say whatever they want with zero consequences.

But then you're getting into the even larger question of the objectification of social contact as a whole by the Internet - the consequence-free environment of saying whatever you want will always create not only people who objectify - accidentally or purposefully, but people who feel objectified - rightly or wrongly! There's a very fine line between fighting against the historical sexism of society and unfairly vilifying others for reasonable (or at least only slightly off) attitudes.

As others have said, the AB/DL community is largely male, and as a matter purely of historical precedent, the male population of a site oriented towards something that's a kink for many will inevitable attract the objectifying attitude. Many of those males will never realize they're doing it, and would even never do it to any real woman they met. The attitude I've heard most often when confronting them about it is, "Why are you getting worked up about that? It's just a story/drawing/picture/movie, not a real person!"(Nevermind that pictures and movies are typically of real people.)
 

BinkyBoi

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So, as I'm cruising diapermates tonight, I notice that lots of the most popular pictures are of women. That in and of itself is no big surprise as the population is rather disproportionate with males having the largest group. But, some of the comments on these pictures are horrendous! Does anyone else feel that women are objectified in the ABDL community? Do you think that is part of the reason we have a small number of women?

Oh yes! Very yes indeed! I'm on Tumblr and I see it all the time. Now from time to time I re-post pornagrphic photos but I never say anything bad about women. Now I have seen it and sadly, been a victim of it even though I'm a guy. mainly this is the reason I have up my Kik. Time after time, guys would "Kik" me asking if I'm a female and if I can post half naked pictures in a diaper. My response: I'm a guy and I'm not in a position to wear diapers (yet, but that's another story.). One of those guys told me he doesn't want to talk to me unless if I do so.

1. I would never post explicit pics of myself, ever! Keep that in mind.

I tried explaining my situation (living with parents, all of privacy, etc). And that we can still be cool and talk. But no, he said I'm a freak unless if I do what he says. Thats when I reminded him I am a guy, and he said he only talks to girls.

So yes, it is unfortunate that women and girls are being objectified in our community. I might even start standing up for women's rights in our community. (Granted, I'm politically neutral in the real world, but I will stand up for something I believe is right.)

Sorry, this ends my rant.
 

TARDISchaser

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Sorry, I kinda let this thread get away from me. I dont think I set up the email-updates-to-me function right. Anywho, I'm glad this thread ran away from me! There is some great stuff on here!

I could definitely see how women put themselves out there for attention, and I've dated a few girls that do that. This community especially, at least I feel like, idealizes women (kudos to whoever put the pedestal comment up).

But, this IS a fetish community (at least for some) and I could see this being a magnification of the problems we have in our society already. And yes, I know men get objectified as well. Its fun sometimes, I'll admit, but I think that guys are much more forward about it. I(kudos to that person. your rant took FOREVER to read, but was good.)

paciloverbaby3 , I'm interested in your "women's rights" idea. I think it would be kinda rough to enforce. but its an interesting thought.
 

RVCA21

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Yeah I mean with regards to the females I have seen on tumblr and various blogs, they willingly put themselves out there and recieve mainly positive attention from guys but then cannot handle the idiots who have something negative to say about them. I just feel like you should know that people are going to react differently to what you post and that everyone is not the same. It sucks but you have to just brush it off instead of letting it get to ya!

You should know that there are always going to be creepers, douchebags and assholes in this world and that doesn't change just because they are ABs or DLs. People can be jerks in any community and even if its not right at all it's not going to change. I wish it wasn't like that but it really only takes one bad apple to ruin something or in this case make someone feel like crap.
 

Sumomoko

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I did kind of notice some pic that... well, as a woman I didn't really like. Not most of the pictures of the real people posting they can't help if they look so cute showing their pride. I'm pretty sure if I ever mustered up ths courage I'd look pretty darned adorable too.

As a support community, I'm not really sure that the story posting make the most sense here. It encourages fantasy a little more than I'm comfortable with.
 
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littlelodgewrecker

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Rape is pretty clearly about sex because sex is a required component. Power, control, etc., are big components, possibly the larger ones, but if it wasn't about sex, it'd just be assault and battery or we'd have more torture crimes. Few rapists are random; they discriminate with regard to their victims. I think it's entirely too complex a matter just to slap one label on it as to why it happens.

spoken like a man. (one wonders if your insight would be a bit different as a woman...)
however, i believe the documentation speaks to the contrary, Sir....
please find bellow a few links for you edification;
List of Rape Myths

Sexual Assault Myths – Sexual Assault⁄Rape – Here For You – Minnesota State University, Mankato

Rape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.wcsap.org/what-sexual-violence-sexual-abuse-and-sexual-assault

an erect penis can be just as much a weapon as a fist, elbow, knee or foot when used in a violent assault/crime.... it doesn't matter whether the predator/perpetrator enjoys it.... the victim/survivor most certainly does not!
 
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LushieCat

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I did kind of notice some pic that... well, as a woman I didn't really like. Not most of the pictures of the real people posting they can't help if they look so cute showing their pride. I'm pretty sure if I ever mustered up ths courage I'd look pretty darned adorable too.

As a support community, I'm not really sure that the story posting make the most sense here. It encourages fantasy a little more than I'm comfortable with.


It also promotes supporting our members who are trying to improve their writing abilities and put their ideas and thoughts out into the world to share.
Sure there are stories out there that are just pure fantasy or drivel meant to only reflect the innermost desires of the author, though that sort of stuff is quite obvious, but there are also many that are of higher quality and actually enjoyable to read from a literary perspective. (Yes, Dogboy, I am looking at you)

For example, there is a story about someone entering into a role of ...baby... and the story has no real plot, it's just a list of successive desires that the author feels have never been properly satisfied in their childhood turned into so called chapters. This story might have a huge following, but it will only be made up of people who empathise and feel that same exact way. People who have never felt that way, or people of a higher emotional maturity won't really enjoy it as, and I'll be frank, it's rubbish.

On the other hand, you might find a highly developed story that is easy to enjoy for anyone to read with high development of characters and appropriate uses of themes and metaphors. It rather entices the reader to think and take something from the story. The effect is long term.

I could say it's like implying that just because there are stories like twilight and 50 shades of gray out there (I compare these two mostly because they are both fanfic like stories expressing fantasies), that you should take off also the Harry Potter's and Life of Pi's as well.

I love reading the works some of the authors here and providing feedback and support.
 
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Maxx

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Speaking as a diaper lover, for me the object is the diaper, not the model. If I'm going to look at diaper pictures, I find that gender is more or less irrelevant. I just need someone/something to hold the diaper in an attractive shape and position. It helps if the model/mannikin isn't repulsive, but overt nudity, suggestive poses, big boobs, or excessive babyishness in the way of props or clothing are distracting. For the most part, I'm imagining myself in the diaper, rather than interaction with the wearer.

As for crass behaviour by anonymous internet posters..... it is what it is. "Be assured that a walk through the seas of most souls would scarcely get your feet wet." - Deteriorata
 
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an erect penis can be just as much a weapon as a fist, elbow, knee or foot when used in a violent assault/crime.... it doesn't matter whether the predator/perpetrator enjoys it.... the victim most certainly does not!

I would argue that it can cause more harm to women than any other part of the body, because the worst thing I can imagine happening would be for me to get pregnant and have a baby, which is why I go to such great lengths to be as unfeminine, unladylike, and undesirable to men as possible. I fear pregnancy like a man fears losing that very body part, because nothing is more of a womanish (and painful) process than pregnancy and childbirth!
 

MsClara

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spoken like a man. (one wonders if your insight would be a bit different as a woman...)
however, i believe the documentation speaks to the contrary, Sir....
please find bellow a few links for you edification;
List of Rape Myths

Sexual Assault Myths – Sexual Assault⁄Rape – Here For You – Minnesota State University, Mankato

Rape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What is Sexual Violence, Sexual Abuse, and Sexual Assault? | Washington Coalition of Sexual Assault Programs

an erect penis can be just as much a weapon as a fist, elbow, knee or foot when used in a violent assault/crime.... it doesn't matter whether the predator/perpetrator enjoys it.... the victim most certainly does not!

People talk about rape as being "all about power" and not sex because they want to avoid any implication that women bring rape on themselves by being "sexy" "leading men on" ect. and while it is necessary for a rapist to have power over a victim in order to inflict the rape, and cruelty is it's own reward, I've yet to be persuaded that none of the rapes ever committed ever had anything to do with the perpetrators sexual pleasure.
 
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littlelodgewrecker

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People talk about rape as being "all about power" and not sex because they want to avoid any implication that women bring rape on themselves by being "sexy" "leading men on" ect. and while it is necessary for a rapist to have power over a victim in order to inflict the rape, and cruelty is it's own reward, I've yet to be persuaded that none of the rapes ever committed ever had anything to do with the perpetrators sexual pleasure.

MsClaraRiddle Sir....
(i note that your personal page lists your sex as male)

persuading you, or anyone else to change their personal opinion concerning rape, is not my interest. i shall leave that job to your local law enforcement and the threat of incarceration.... (where i am sure "bubba" and his friends will be more than happy to educate any disbeliever in the power-dynamic of rape.... )

my interest here is simply victim/survivor support, empowerment and self-esteem through dispelling myth, and public awareness.

thank you for your time....
 
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Frogsy

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I think all Trevor said was that rape involved sex because it's part of the definition of rape. If someone punches me in the nose I'm not going to say I was raped. If I am raped it will involve genitals, thus, sexuality to some degree. I think that power and control and sex are part of rape. They call rape 'sexual assault' and they call other types of assault, well, just assault.

Maybe the rapist him/herself is not getting sexual gratification, but the person being assaulted is being sexually assaulted.

I am female. This is spoken like a woman. Also I have experienced this, if you really want to know. And I have studied gender, women's studies, and sociology in college. I realize what you are saying and where it is coming from. (Sometimes for example, heterosexual men will rape other men just because of the power aspect and not for their own deep sexual needs.) Also I have no intention of blaming the victim. A woman should be able to walk around completely naked without 'deserving' rape. However, rape involves sexual organs. Otherwise you would just call it assault.
 
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Maxx

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A woman should be able to walk around completely naked without 'deserving' rape.

True in an absolute sense, however, consider context. In a culture and situation where nudity is not normal or expected, someone exhibiting outrageous behavior has no right to be outraged if they are treated with less than the usual respect. Entrapment? False advertising? Fraud? Assault is still wrong, and the perpetrator should pay, but I think there are cases where the 'victim' deserves a spanking as well.

I have a similar problem with cops dressing and behaving as hookers or drug dealers to entrap citizens, or cable companies advertising low monthly rates while burying various add-on charges in the fine print. It may be legal, but its certainly not right. What about recent cases where the FBI enticed, incited, and provided fake bombs to mentally weak or disturbed individuals, then arrested them as terrorists? How is that different?

Are you outraged that the guy in the suit got the job when you dressed in baggy pants with your hat sideways for the interview?

If I were to swish around a gay neighborhood in tight pink shorts, would I have a right to outrage if a guy hit on me?

How about if I were to grow a few days of stubble, dress in shabby clothes and sit on a bench by the playground? Would I have a right to outrage if the local police stopped to have a word?

Was Habib wrong to hit the alarm button when I stopped in a 7-11 during a run on a very cold day, but forgot to remove the ski mask?
 

Sihcara

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The shame of the matter is the objectification of women to start with. Yes the abdl community gets a bad reputation for it, but several women i know dont have it any easier for being on dating sites or just being out in public. They get cat calls rather than compliments
 
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CrinklySiren

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I honestly think that sometimes its just the appearance of femininity >_> I mean on a website im on, i would post constant pictures of me in my outfits but i never posted pics of my LG side out of self-consciousness... one day i get over my self-esteem issues and i decide to post up pics in my blue dress... suddenly i get BOMBARDED with messages from all kinds of men, to which im still getting today.. in fact im pretty sure my pics went viral on the site >_<!!!
 

MsClara

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MsClaraRiddle Sir....
(i note that your personal page lists your sex as male)

persuading you, or anyone else to change their personal opinion concerning rape, is not my interest. i shall leave that job to your local law enforcement and the threat of incarceration.... (where i am sure "bubba" and his friends will be more than happy to educate any disbeliever in the power-dynamic of rape.... )

my interest here is simply victim/survivor support, empowerment and self-esteem through dispelling myth, and public awareness.

thank you for your time....

I don't disbelieve in the power dynamic of rape, and neither (I think from his comment) does Trevor, the point was about motivations. Also what's with the stuff about local law enforcement? Just because I think that sexual desire can be a motivation for sexual assaults, doesn't mean I think it's OK (putting it no stronger than that.)

I'd also point out that the first of your linked lists of rape myths says under the heading of it's first myth "Rape is Sex" that sexual attraction may be an influence on the perpetrator.
In your post you said
it doesn't matter whether the predator/perpetrator enjoys it.... the victim/survivor most certainly does not!
I agree it doesn't matter morally at all, but as a matter of fact, it may be true in some cases the perpetrator gets sexual pleasure as well the pleasure of power and cruelty. That is essentially all that I have said.

I understand this is a sensitive subject, and it's easy to misinterpret the attitude or beliefs behind people's remarks about such matters, but I don't think that implying someone needs attention "of their local law enforcement" serves the interests of survivors when I haven't said anything (intended to be) detrimental to their interests.

...and if you looked at my profile you should know I live in England, so none of the prison rapists in my country are called "Bubba"

- - - Updated - - -

True in an absolute sense, however, consider context. In a culture and situation where nudity is not normal or expected, someone exhibiting outrageous behavior has no right to be outraged if they are treated with less than the usual respect. Entrapment? False advertising? Fraud? Assault is still wrong, and the perpetrator should pay, but I think there are cases where the 'victim' deserves a spanking as well.

I have a similar problem with cops dressing and behaving as hookers or drug dealers to entrap citizens, or cable companies advertising low monthly rates while burying various add-on charges in the fine print. It may be legal, but its certainly not right. What about recent cases where the FBI enticed, incited, and provided fake bombs to mentally weak or disturbed individuals, then arrested them as terrorists? How is that different?

Are you outraged that the guy in the suit got the job when you dressed in baggy pants with your hat sideways for the interview?

If I were to swish around a gay neighborhood in tight pink shorts, would I have a right to outrage if a guy hit on me?

How about if I were to grow a few days of stubble, dress in shabby clothes and sit on a bench by the playground? Would I have a right to outrage if the local police stopped to have a word?

Was Habib wrong to hit the alarm button when I stopped in a 7-11 during a run on a very cold day, but forgot to remove the ski mask?

It's different because a rational first thought on seeing a naked person is not "Oh they are naked in public, they must want random strangers to come over and have sex with them immediately without asking any further questions, I must get on that right now." None of your examples are comparable in any way what so ever.
If you can't see that then you're a fool.
 
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Frogsy

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Are you outraged that the guy in the suit got the job when you dressed in baggy pants with your hat sideways for the interview?

If I were to swish around a gay neighborhood in tight pink shorts, would I have a right to outrage if a guy hit on me?

How about if I were to grow a few days of stubble, dress in shabby clothes and sit on a bench by the playground? Would I have a right to outrage if the local police stopped to have a word?

Was Habib wrong to hit the alarm button when I stopped in a 7-11 during a run on a very cold day, but forgot to remove the ski mask?

We're talking about rape here. Not 'not getting a job' or 'being talked to by cops' or 'being hit on' or in the last example, being questioned by police again.

If you wore pink shorts in a known gay hangout, would you expect to be thrown to the ground and raped? That's what we're talking about. Not just normal consequences. If you think rape is a normal consequence of showing some skin, then you need to speak to a mental health professional.
 

Trevor

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I don't disbelieve in the power dynamic of rape, and neither (I think from his comment) does Trevor, the point was about motivations. Also what's with the stuff about local law enforcement? Just because I think that sexual desire can be a motivation for sexual assaults, doesn't mean I think it's OK (putting it no stronger than that.) [snipped]

I'm aware of the common myths regarding rape linked earlier but I find it hard to believe that sex is never involved in a sexual crime. Power, domination, objectification, and other aspects are certainly present to varying degrees but to remove sex from the equation to me fails basic tests of reason. If sex wasn't a factor, I think we'd see sexual assaults falling almost exclusively on the weak and vulnerable, i.e., the elderly, children, and the infirm of either sex. Rapists wouldn't bother discriminating as to the sex of their victim if it was just about domination. Instead, we see that serial rapists often have a "type", much like serial killers. How would date rape factor in at all? The weak are victims of this horrible crime, but like murder, there are other factors at work. Although I'm not a rapist, I know what it's like to be driven by peculiar, thankfully harmless sexual urges and they don't always express themselves in a direct way. My observation is that because humans are complex and messy, to say that we know with absolute certainty why a group of people engage in certain behaviors seems premature. It's much more likely to be a range of motivations. From that, it certainly doesn't follow that victims are "asking for it", etc.
 
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Maxx

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We're talking about rape here. Not 'not getting a job' or 'being talked to by cops' or 'being hit on' or in the last example, being questioned by police again.

If you wore pink shorts in a known gay hangout, would you expect to be thrown to the ground and raped? That's what we're talking about. Not just normal consequences. If you think rape is a normal consequence of showing some skin, then you need to speak to a mental health professional.

Actually, we're talking about objectification of women who put images of themselves in provocative/outrageous/unusual attire and poses out into the public ether. It shouldn't be a surprise that they get some provocative/outrageous/unusual responses. How that devolved into rape, I'm not sure.
 
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