"No drama" needs clarification

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ShippoFox

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When I first saw that, I thought it meant "do not talk about your problems on this forum" After thinking for a few seconds, I realize it doesn't quite mean that, but I'm not sure if everyone that ever comes across this forum will realize that. They might show up and see "Take your problems elsewhere. We don't want to hear about it, even if you are a DL!"

So, I think the wording of the rule should be changed or it should be expanded to be more specific about what is okay (asking for advice about real life stuff. some people might consider discussing problems to be drama... it's a crazy internet.) and isn't okay (saying how you hate some other board member for whatever reason, how some other board member is lying, etc.) Not exactly in my words, but something similar.

(wasn't sure if this deserved its own topic or not, but figured it was better than making the meme topic more confusing by talking about 50 different things in there)
 
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When I first saw that, I thought it meant "do not talk about your problems on this forum" After thinking for a few seconds, I realize it doesn't quite mean that, but I'm not sure if everyone that ever comes across this forum will realize that. They might show up and see "Take your problems elsewhere. We don't want to hear about it, even if you are a DL!"
I don't see how anyone discussing a problem on a support forum could perceive "no drama" to mean "don't talk about your problems". But I guess if you've seen it to be a problem, then maybe we should redefine what "no drama" actually means.

For clarity purposes, to me, drama is the act of disrupting or otherwise ruining the sensible nature of the community. Anything that is done in such a way that it is either controversial (amongst other users), offensive, flaming or making the forum just a little less nice place to be.

So, I think the wording of the rule should be changed or it should be expanded to be more specific about what is okay (asking for advice about real life stuff. some people might consider discussing problems to be drama... it's a crazy internet.) and isn't okay (saying how you hate some other board member for whatever reason, how some other board member is lying, etc.) Not exactly in my words, but something similar.
I mean, that's what this community is about. Helping others; "Support Community" is even a part of our group name. If anything, all factors point out that it's okay to post advice/help topics. I trust the judgement of this community enough that they respond appropriately to a certain topic.

So yeah... the definition is fine as I can see it.
 

Moo

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"Drama" posts aren't just dramatic they are over dramatic.

The difference is that the subject matter being discussed does not deserve such dramatic presentation, and the presentation is neither funny nor useful.

Examples of non-drama:
"We have a new President!" is dramatic, but it is not over dramatic. Excitement is justified.
"Woe is me!" is dramatic, but if it comes after "hey, someone gave me a free plane flight to anywhere in the world!"... then it is fairly obviously has a humor value, and is not "drama".
"Guys, I feel that the new policy of requiring all newly registered users to enter their real name on the signup form will KILL the site" - isn't drama, because it is genuinely useful as a way to move the site forward. If I ever even considered such a crazy idea, I do hope the community would slap me for it.

Examples of drama :
* Using a lot of "!"s. One is enough.
* Suggesting that trivial things are really important, when they obviously aren't.
* Posting things which you KNOW will start a fight between one or more users.

Here are some things which ARE drama :
* "OMG I got negative reputation!!! WTF So unfair!!! I hate you all!"
* "OMG I split up with my boyfriend and now I have to cut myself and I hate everyone and my parents wear horrible pink and black outfits!!! And anyone who fails to feel sorry for me is an ass!".

The purpose of the "no drama" rule is not to prevent people getting support. Nor is it to prevent people talking about their problems. We are a support forum, after all!
The purpose of the no drama rule is to prevent people whining ENDLESSLY about completely trivial matters that nobody else cares about, and which have a tendancy to start fights and generally be a bad thing.
 

Vladimir

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Here is a more accurate example of over drama-ism.
"omgggg wats wrong wit drama?66?6 u dotn undersrtand!!!111"
Drama and decent grammar don't blend very well. XP

I thought drama meant complaining about something in an exaggerated way, not an excitement like your first few examples, am I mistaken?
 

Dash

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I mean, that's what this community is about. Helping others; "Support Community" is even a part of our group name. If anything, all factors point out that it's okay to post advice/help topics. I trust the judgement of this community enough that they respond appropriately to a certain topic.

So yeah... the definition is fine as I can see it.
I totally agree. But we offer our support as the ADISC community, not as the "come have a moan, we'll solve your problems" community. Now this isn't me saying it's wrong to - cos it's not. If I were to share my concerns or issue I have on the forums, it wouldn't be to moan or just for the hell of controversy; the way I see it, just having some support from forum friends, even when there's nothing they could physically do to help, can make a difference. Could be to reassure yourself that there are people in your life that give a damn at times when you need that little bit of reassurance... I don't know.

Drama is basically how Moo has put it in his (somewhat exaggerated) examples =P It's one thing to share your problems in hope that the words of others will help, but another to refuse to talk about anything other than how shit you feel, and continually express how much you want to die.

On the other hand, let's reiterate the fact that a large percentage of users on ADISC are teenagers. And I know myself, things can sometimes suck so much; they get you down so low, you're practically horizontal! Now you'll either keep it to yourself cos you feel it would be an outburst of your private life, or you'll share it cos you feel the best way to deal with it is to let it out. And sometimes it results in ranting and raving, even if it's not intentional.
I think we need to allow for that, in the sense that if someone starts moaning or "causing drama", not to neg rep them, or report them, but instead try to settle the situation to a point where the drama stops.

It could be saying "I understand where you're coming from and I feel for you, but life has it's problems and talking about it in an explicit manner will only make it worse for yourself, and others on the forums"...?

If it doesn't stop at that... then... by all means report away, i'd say.

And I fully realise this isn't the only form of e-drama, but it's definitely the most common form of it on tinternet.

So yeah. I think that's how to draw the line between "drama" and "raising a personal issue"...
 

starshine

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Actually, I never thought using two exclamation marks would be considered drama, I know I do that. For example,

Welcome to the board, I hope to see you around!!
I know it's not necessary, just a habit, hehe. Although, I can see how using the two could be a dumb thing to do when complaining about something futile.
 

Kraiden

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2 or 3 exclamation marks are fine.

BUT USEING SO MANY LIKE THIS REALLY SUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Aww, and I'm so fond of using a double exclamation mark after a space !!


What Moo and Dash said seems to be a fair accurate way to describe what I personally do and don't want to see on this forum. :thumbsup:
 

Tigger

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I think it means dramas like Home and Away or Neighbours...
 

whitefox

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I would think as long as you present any problems without overstating them (or mentioning the same idea several times; "blowing it up") is okay. Simply complaining, and thusly not being constructive, I would label as drama.

So combining those two, I would get: Complaining (negatively) about a situation, while simultainously being non-constructive, is bad. Putting all of the emphasis on yourself is usually bad. In other words, if you've got an issue, mention it one time, ask for some help from the community in a kind manner (and hopefuly with at least semi-formal grammar), and continue on conversation from there. If nothing else, common curtesy would usually help out in a situation like this. Just my :twocents:
 

ShippoFox

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It's about what someone new might think. They might not understand what we mean by "drama." That's what I'm trying to say. Sometimes on the internet, if you disagree with something, then people call it drama. It may not be ACTUAL drama... but the internet distorts real definitions of words sometimes. It's kinda like emo... if you get sad about some things, then everyone starts calling you emo.

I'm not saying it's a bad rule.... I just think it needs to be more specific.

Moo said:
Examples of drama :
* Using a lot of "!"s. One is enough.
* Suggesting that trivial things are really important, when they obviously aren't.
* Posting things which you KNOW will start a fight between one or more users.

Here are some things which ARE drama :
* "OMG I got negative reputation!!! WTF So unfair!!! I hate you all!"
* "OMG I split up with my boyfriend and now I have to cut myself and I hate everyone and my parents wear horrible pink and black outfits!!! And anyone who fails to feel sorry for me is an ass!".
Something like that would work, I guess.
 

BitterGrey

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General angst vs. specific problems

I tend to think that there is a clearer way to state the intent of this regulation, but concede that the statement can only go so far. Having a clear guideline, such as separating general angst from specific problems, might help.

Repetition/posts that don't add value are handled with reputation as spam.

Inflammatory intent is, I assume, handled under fighting.

Exaggeration for sympathy is, I assume, handled under lying. The problem is that it is extremely difficult to draw a line between those who have honest needs and those who just want attention. Munchausen Syndrome exists.

Poor grammar can be handled by reputation, tempered by the understanding that not all of us grew up in English-speaking cultures.

General angst might be a practical metric for "no drama", excluding the above. This is a support forum, so people need to be free to share their problems. However, problems are typically solved one at a time. As a result, it makes sense to post about them one at a time. Those who are aware of this and are seeking sympathy, not a solution, won't report individual and specific problems. They will post a morbid and discouraging list of misfortunes. This metric will separate the "I need help with X" from the "my life is horrible" posts.
 
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It's about what someone new might think. They might not understand what we mean by "drama." That's what I'm trying to say. Sometimes on the internet, if you disagree with something, then people call it drama. It may not be ACTUAL drama... but the internet distorts real definitions of words sometimes. It's kinda like emo... if you get sad about some things, then everyone starts calling you emo.

I'm not saying it's a bad rule.... I just think it needs to be more specific.
I agree with you Shippo it is not very specific, I see exactly where you are coming from. Okay to all you non American citizens need to be informed something to understand fully where me and shippo are coming from. Your average high school student in America would classify as asking for help with their problems as drama. Like for example a girl rambling to her friend sayng "I got this guy's number yesterday and we went out on a date that night but he has not called me since! I tried calling him once and he picked up, did not say anything, and then hung up! What should I do?" Every high schooler would consider that drama, and I consider it drama too, just a different type of drama. So I beleive the drama rule needs to be more specific too.
A good way for it be more specific is....

Do not cause drama in the community by these following actions...
- Over use of explanation points
- Over exagerating little issues
- Saying something that causes someone to b offended or a fight to break out
and ect.....

I think that would be a lot better. I admit when I first read this rule I assumed that you could not ask for advice or support for any problems you have that are not *B/DL related. So Shippo was not the only one who misinterpreted, and I am positive we were not the only two.
 

Raccoon

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Veteran forum users know what is meant by "drama" in this context. An overview of the smilies should give a clue to those who can read between the lines. But to be a bit more explicit... Much of so-called "drama" involves interpersonal relations, particularly when a member has a dispute with another member (or members or the community as a whole) and airs their fight or opinions about the fight in public.

user 1"You ish full of it and probably a perv."
user 2"I am ignoring you. I am pressing my ignore button right now"
user 1"Go ahead and ignore me. See if I care. u thinks evy1 is a perv who disagres wi u."
user 2"I do not. I disagree with you because you are a perv and get off our site. You are polluting it you perv."

*here occurs a furious exchange of negrep*

user 1"Get lost perv. I am telling eveybody you are such a perv in chat.:eek::eek::eek:"
user 2"I am leaving this site.:mad::argue: You all suck anyway:surrender:."
user 1"Good riddance you evil perv. Have some more negrep, :readthis:I have lots to give you.:frown::frown::frown::frown::frown:"

*emails Moo, pm's Moo, and AIM's Moo about the unfair negrep and copies all of these to forum posts in multiple threads, double- and triple-posting all the while* (how he got Moo's AIM remains a mystery)

user 2"Moo u r biassedd an u don deserve me here:heiscrazy::growup::heiscrazy::growup:"
user 1"Moo ban him already:beg::beg::beg: :fingerscrossed::fingerscrossed::fingerscrossed:"

user 1
user 2
 

Moo

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Raccoon has neatly surmised why I don't give out my AIM ;)
Well done :)
 

avery

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in IRC today a user sort of hinted that he had something he wanted to talk about, but was afraid to mention it because of the rule against causing drama. we all encouraged him to give a few more details, and it turns out he's dealing with a lot of homophobia and bullying at school on account of being gay. that's exactly the sort of problem people should be bringing up here, and he got a lot of advise and support, particularly from fullmetal.

it's not the first time i've seen someone confuse the "no whining" rule for a "don't talk about anything except sunshine and joyfulness" rule. making that distinction clear is kind of tricksy. =/
 

Moo

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I'm starting to think that I should just slim down the rules and leave things to community/moderator discretion with regards to negrep/bans.

Some things can't be explained quickly and clearly (and some things, like the no drama rule, are hard to explain even in long posts!).
 

Dash

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I'm starting to think that I should just slim down the rules and leave things to community/moderator discretion with regards to negrep/bans.

Some things can't be explained quickly and clearly (and some things, like the no drama rule, are hard to explain even in long posts!).
Yeah, there's no point setting a criteria as such for things like this. If a user thinks its drama, have them report it, and let the mods decide... but like I said before; we've all gotta allow for that outburst of anger and confusion, and then when there's a continuity of such outbursts which are practically attention-seeking, then a course of action should be taken by the mods.

I guess we go back to the idea that if it's nearly impossible to give constructive or helpful feedback on an issue or set topic, then it's more than likely drama or spam (we doesn't want either) - I can't think of a situation where that wouldn't apply, so if anyone else can, please prove me wrong :wallbash: lol
 

Moo

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The "no drama" rule has been removed from the rules, because as community discussion suggests, it is unclear.

I've given the moderators discretion about how they handle cases of drama from now on.
 

Raccoon

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I agree. Guidelines should be given (with examples) but not rules as such, as they are hard to define narrowly, and are inclined to be taken literally by some. Actual situations should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

Examples:

"I have this terrible rl situation with bullies or my parents or my teacher or my bank manager, can someone pls help?" is fine.

Examples of drama:

Personal attacks, including direct insults (instead of criticizing a post,)

Excessive use of capital letters or colors or huge fonts to convey shouting, or outright swearing

Sulking, storming out of the forum, deleting all one's posts in the last 24 hours, spamming the threads of one's "enemy" with posts intended to be rude, disruptive, or annoying

Airing the details of a dispute you are having with your "enemy" in public. These details may be aired in the privacy of "requests forum."

Talking publicly about someone you dislike, suspect, or are ignoring. By all means open private sub-rooms in chat, or have pm exchanges with individuals; but openly badmouthing someone risks making you look petty and petulant.

Giving revenge negrep is a form of drama. Doing pretty much anything to get revenge is a form of drama.

Making a huge fuss about your-break-up with your boyfriend or girlfriend or furfriend or what-have-you - that is designed to get attention, rather than help and advice can be considered drama. Where the line gets drawn between finding some comfort and grabbing the spotlight and playing on peoples' feelings is impossible to describe, at least in a few words. When people get tired of hearing about your issue or don't take it seriously anymore is about the time it starts to be considered drama.

Note: I used adjectives like petty, petulant, rude, insulting, disruptive, annoying. Such terms are a matter of judgment, and our mods can decide when someone is being over-dramatic, when this is in question. But a good rule of thumb is simply not to act in a way that could be described by those adjectives.

Now, speaking of getting ecstatic and sort of dramatic and...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f72CTDe4-0
 
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