Moo's Vision For ADISC

[Raccoon]

Dear Moo,

Could you please, at your convenience, create a Mission Statement describing what you want ADISC to be? This would help us be better in synch with achieving it.

I suspect since ADISC changes in nature over time with respect to advances in technology, it size, membership input, and the results of various experiments, you may well prefer to define this in terms of what ADISC aims to DO, it goals, rather than its state.

I assume that we want to be a tight-knit community, a welcoming place for newbies and veterans alike, directly supportive in terms of information, advice, and moral support, and indirectly (though equally importantly) supportive through fostering close and meaningful interpersonal relationships. But how we are to attain this - according to YOUR opinion, YOUR vision, isn't always completely clear.

For instance, to what extent should we rely on newcomers to figure out for themselves how to fit in, as opposed to teaching them, leading them, even coddling them?

Are we moving back to an organic growth model - where people find their own way here, and expend effort to learn our ways?

Or do we want to go all out to grow fast, mandating new ways to ensure newbies are not simply greeted but are given other ways and means to be incorporated into our social fabric?

Are there set quantifiables, like an ideal size, rate of growth, average growth in rep/member/day - or are these flexible and subordinate to qualitative, descriptive goals?

I pose these ideas as points to consider, not as pointed questions demanding a specific answer. You built the site, incorporating all the features that made it what it is; I merely ask for some guidance so we all are on the same page.

 

[starshine]

Why wouldn't you just PM him?

 

[jter42]

Why wouldn't you just PM him?

Because he wanted others to know Moos plans.

 

[Moo]

Dear Moo,

Could you please, at your convenience, create a Mission Statement describing what you want ADISC to be? This would help us be better in synch with achieving it.

I suspect since ADISC changes in nature over time with respect to advances in technology, it size, membership input, and the results of various experiments, you may well prefer to define this in terms of what ADISC aims to DO, it goals, rather than its state.

I assume that we want to be a tight-knit community, a welcoming place for newbies and veterans alike, directly supportive in terms of information, advice, and moral support, and indirectly (though equally importantly) supportive through fostering close and meaningful interpersonal relationships. But how we are to attain this - according to YOUR opinion, YOUR vision, isn't always completely clear.

For instance, to what extent should we rely on newcomers to figure out for themselves how to fit in, as opposed to teaching them, leading them, even coddling them?

Are we moving back to an organic growth model - where people find their own way here, and expend effort to learn our ways?

Or do we want to go all out to grow fast, mandating new ways to ensure newbies are not simply greeted but are given other ways and means to be incorporated into our social fabric?

Are there set quantifiables, like an ideal size, rate of growth, average growth in rep/member/day - or are these flexible and subordinate to qualitative, descriptive goals?

I pose these ideas as points to consider, not as pointed questions demanding a specific answer. You built the site, incorporating all the features that made it what it is; I merely ask for some guidance so we all are on the same page.

ADISC is meant to be a supportive social community for (mainly young) people who like diapers. There are lots of groups who we are here for (ABies, TBs, DLs, babyfurs, incontinent folk... etc) but 'people who like diapers' is our core audience.

We should help newcomers fit in, but more important than that is that we are friendly to them, we come across as trying to help, rather than lecturing or demanding.

Growth is essential - because if we aren't growing, we're stagnating. On the other hand, welcoming newbies isn't really about growth, its about simply being a good, supportive community. I'm not aiming for a huge amount of growth right now, I'm actually more concentrating on the friendliness and social interaction within the community.

These goals aren't really quanitifiable, though if I had to quantify them I'd measure them in terms of what percentage of new people registering go on to become productive members of the community. The percentage of new people that we convert from lurkers, into people who are active and nice members of the community. That, for me, is my primary metric by which I measure the success of the site.

 

[Raccoon]

Ah yes. Now first of all let me apologise for my recent thread-spamming; I apologise to Moo, the mods, and the membership in general; I caused unnecessary fuss and work. The fact that no harm was meant or done, and my intentions were good is beside the point: I set a bad example.

That having been said the experiment yielded an important result: that newbies being greeted is not enough. Now most I believe were sincere in registering: they did register and were active in their greeting threads. But after a 4-10 post greeting thread very many went inactive. Why?

Let's quickly look at the ones who came through "organic growth" - the ones who made their way here, stopping off at the other sites on the way, and finding them not to their liking. They lurked, reading posts, and deciding this was where they were meant to be. They would be familiar with Teenbaby, Off-topic, and the other forums where they would want to be involved; they would post, and when they made mistakes, they would learn from the advice, redirection (we know you like ageplay, wearing in public, or other diaper-fun, but if you give us some more info that will help us get to know one another.) So they would work, and sometimes struggle, to fit in, not by "sucking up" - by telling us what they thought we wanted to hear - but by establishing person-to-person interaction, saying interesting things, asking questions, telling their story, and commenting on others'.

Then there were the many new ones who signed up expecting we were all about diaper play, in its many forms, but either didn't want to or didn't know how to go beyond that. Didn't want to - they should have lurked more, or been told about our nature, so they didn't waste their time, and ours. But if they didn't know how:

these are the critical ones. Now some who come here - with their wide range of ages, intelligence and forum experience - can cope, being quick on the uptake or having experience on other social sites. Fot the others, there should be a tutorial detour, whereby, if they choose, they can familiarise themselves with where they might go outside of greetings, the forum utilities, and tips on participating. This is for the shy ones, the timid ones scared to post for fear of grammar-nazis or making a critical flame-attracting post, and the lost ones.

Ideas for them include a guided interactive tour: find and post to a forum-games thread, huggle a furry, report a post (pre-supplied,) edit the wiki, start a blog. This would also work for existing members who haven't explored the site's utilities, and hidden corners; there is a perfectly good twitter (Abby, Incomplete Dude) ADISC.org Unofficial (adisc) on Twitter that deserves more views, for instance. Having a wiki-based Encyclopedia ADISCIA with all our rules, customs, and site-specific info in one place would serve many functions as a reference. A post-registration voluntary questionnaire might work: what tempted you to join, how do you like it so far, did you come looking for something we don't offer, etc. Obviously, just for the "obviously lost" ones, not the ace detectives who know what they are doing.

But besides prodding them to participate, a key issue concerns the site mechanics. Once a newbie has had an active intro thread, they tend to be ignored, and their thread is bumped; when the thread isn't visible it goes on to be really ignored. All I can suggest is:
1. more careful marketing to not attract the ones who aren't going to enjoy ADISC in the first place
2. In that marketing, a SMALL primer of what we are about, to pre-familiarize people
3. more intense methods of getting the newbie to travel outside of intro forum and participate in the rest of the forum
4 Ways (threads) to engage a newbie's attention and enjoyment quickly: a non-static list of a member's 3? 5? highest-repped posts, with an icon in the post-bit? option on clicking their name

View Public Profile
Send a PM
Find More Posts by Him
Contact Info
See His 3 Best posts

This list being non-static is key, or it will warrant only one view; maybe it could be structured as a slideshow whereby each new view/eack click displays 3 new posts in rep-ranking. Maybe the click would not expose the post, but its url so as to promote its thread. Maybe the list could be member-made and not rely on rep; it could be images, poems, cuddling a member in grief, or debate on something, or a suggestion they made that got incorporated. And its oldest posts age out so it would be added to constantly.

Basically, we would give, and make obvious different paths: Jump right in, or get tips along the way, or have a place to study if you really want to fit in but JUST can't get the hang of it.

 

[Lil Snap]

It seems,through all of the threads that you have launched and continuing these conversations, that you think that ADISC is broken and that the way we work is flawed and needs re-forming.

I would beg to differ.

You can't make someone participate in something that they (ultimately) don't want to participate in. Going to all these extraordinary lengths to coerce newbies into any form of participation rather than allowing those that are truly interested in this community to step up, get involved and contributing in a genuine, honest, straightforward manner doesn't help the community and would provide a disingenuous result at best.

We have a thriving community of like minded people who generally enjoy being here and participating (on some level, at the least) otherwise they would leave. It's unfair to expect that EVERY person that signs up here and has a peek around is going to have that same level of interest. It's up to the individual to decide if, when, and how much they join in.

We have hundreds of signups a month. Why is it necessary to fret if 8 out of 10 decide that this isn't what they are looking for, especially if the 2 remaining work at becoming solid members of the community?

 

[Hex]

[font="Calibri,Arial"]Just to add to Lil Snaps post. My forum had 500 members, 30 of which were active. Me and the other admins knew this was quite average. Some of our members were, like Racoon is here, quite bother about that. If you want to find out more about what's normal or not on small/medium forums, to to theadminzone.com and talk to some of the people there.[/font]

 

[Raccoon]

It seems,through all of the threads that you have launched and continuing these conversations, that you think that ADISC is broken and that the way we work is flawed and needs re-forming.

Not at all. Adisc is thriving; I love Adisc and am committed to it. But there are spots that could be improved; the constant urge to reform and adapt is part of the growth process, as much as size growth. The constant seeking of ways to improve prevents us looking like DPF or falling behind the times, and just plain keeps the site interesting as it changes incrementally.

Plus it is not only important for present members to have a good experience and for the site to function. Each and every person's experience is important: members', newbies', future members'.

You can't make someone participate in something that they (ultimately) don't want to participate in. Going to all these extraordinary lengths to coerce newbies into any form of participation rather than allowing those that are truly interested in this community to step up, get involved and contributing in a genuine, honest, straightforward manner doesn't help the community and would provide a disingenuous result at best.

Encouraging is not coercing. Providing opportunity is not legislating. Allowing for different paths into participation reaches out to everyone, instead of a one size fits all model.

We have a thriving community of like minded people who generally enjoy being here and participating (on some level, at the least) otherwise they would leave. It's unfair to expect that EVERY person that signs up here and has a peek around is going to have that same level of interest. It's up to the individual to decide if, when, and how much they join in.

And they have that choice; but we can make it easier for each and all to EXERCISE their choice.

We have hundreds of signups a month. Why is it necessary to fret if 8 out of 10 decide that this isn't what they are looking for, especially if the 2 remaining work at becoming solid members of the community?

because in those 8/10, 5 won't stay and be active anyway, but the remaining 3 are the ones whose inability to fit in though they want to needs to be addressed. Who knows what great contribution they have made? This is both for their sake and ours. Besides which, per Moo, the rate of new members joining has already dropped; each new person is proportionately more important.

 

[avery]

Ideas for them include a guided interactive tour: find and post to a forum-games thread, huggle a furry, report a post (pre-supplied,) edit the wiki, start a blog. This would also work for existing members who haven't explored the site's utilities, and hidden corners; there is a perfectly good twitter (Abby, Incomplete Dude) ADISC.org Unofficial (adisc) on Twitter that deserves more views, for instance. Having a wiki-based Encyclopedia ADISCIA with all our rules, customs, and site-specific info in one place would serve many functions as a reference. A post-registration voluntary questionnaire might work: what tempted you to join, how do you like it so far, did you come looking for something we don't offer, etc. Obviously, just for the "obviously lost" ones, not the ace detectives who know what they are doing.

But besides prodding them to participate, a key issue concerns the site mechanics. Once a newbie has had an active intro thread, they tend to be ignored, and their thread is bumped; when the thread isn't visible it goes on to be really ignored. All I can suggest is:
1. more careful marketing to not attract the ones who aren't going to enjoy ADISC in the first place
2. In that marketing, a SMALL primer of what we are about, to pre-familiarize people
3. more intense methods of getting the newbie to travel outside of intro forum and participate in the rest of the forum
4 Ways (threads) to engage a newbie's attention and enjoyment quickly: a non-static list of a member's 3? 5? highest-repped posts, with an icon in the post-bit? option on clicking their name

...or couldn't we just give our new members some peace...?

most people who join a new forum probably don't want to be harrassed and pestered with a bunch of intrusive schemes to get them posting. they just want to shake hands and say howdy and then decide for themselves whether they want to stay or not.

the best way to encourage them to stay is to contribute quality material to the forum discussions. that way guests and new arrivals will see a healthy, thriving forum with a warm community feel and lots of interesting things to talk about.

 

[Raccoon]

...or couldn't we just give our new members some peace...?

most people who join a new forum probably don't want to be harrassed and pestered with a bunch of intrusive schemes to get them posting. they just want to shake hands and say howdy and then decide for themselves whether they want to stay or not.

the best way to encourage them to stay is to contribute quality material to the forum discussions. that way guests and new arrivals will see a healthy, thriving forum with a warm community feel and lots of interesting things to talk about.

Under the organic growth model, the people coming here are already mostly committed to making the effort to be productive members. Under that model the number of new members per day will be small enough that it is easy to engage each individually. The ideas I proposed really apply to coping with a surge of new members, to ensure that they don't get trampled under or ignored. And if in the future we do experience the kind of sudden massive growth we saw recently then these ideas offer ways to cope.

 

[Peachy]

Under the organic growth model, the people coming here are already mostly committed to making the effort to be productive members.

I'm too lazy to dig up statistics, but I am absolutely convinced that your assumption is wrong when I look at the fact that the newest member has a member ID number of roughly 5,500 while there are only like 100 people posting regularly.
People come here for information mostly. After browing 15 (20?) threads, they are forced to sign up. Some bother to say hi, others don't and just lurk and read. Once upon a time, we required newbies to actually post an introduction to be able to fully read the forum...we ended up with a pile of one-liner introductions.

I agree with avery - cut the newbies some slack and let them find their own way. Those who want to contribute will eventually take the effort to introduce themselves and get involved. Those who only want to lurk and read don't bother me, and I'm fine with anyone who posts an introduction but decides this place is not for them. And of course the liars and those people who think this is another Deeker and/or look for fap material should be driven away.

Peachy

 

[Raccoon]

Yes I mentioned that weeding out the people as early as possible in the process who won't end up as productive members is important, because they are wasting their time and ours. If we are marketing to attract new blood this becomes all the more important. But a lurker who has read through our site should have the feel for it, that we are not providing a space for sexual role playing, or titillating images or brokering dates.

I am still unsure that completely leaving people to their own devices will maximize the #newbies who will turn into regulars, there is a small # of them who would find a site that talks them through the process useful. It would have helped me in the beginning.

I never joined DPF when it was the only game in town because there was social pressure to reveal personal things. We do not have that; we supply an opportunity for newbies/members to get acquainted before going into private stuff, like one's the personal involvement in the fetish.

 

[EmeraldsAndLime]

Raccoon, I certainly hope you aren't viewing people here as mere statistics. We are a community after all, and every person who joins should be given the benefit of the doubt. Admittedly I don't get too involved with newbies (or many people for that matter), but I view everyone here as their own person and not a data contribution.

 

[Raccoon]

View people as mere statistics? Surely you jest. I am concerned with seeing the site as a close-knit mutually supportive community, a place welcoming and useful and fun for all concerned: newbies to vip's.

Statistics themselves are not the objective, they do not define success, but they can help to measure it, especially in a large and complex organization. They can also be used to measure such real and important though abstruse things as morale: and spot issues before they get out of hand.

It is not always the case that if everyone in an organization acts properly then the organization necessarily functions well. And when it doesn't, identifying why, which issues are causes and which are effects, is key to getting back on track. Metrics help to do so.

People come here for information mostly

. Well, now that is a point. That explains some, perhaps many inactive newbies; this is excellent cause-and-effect analysis and contributes to understanding of the site's dynamics.

But I object to

I agree with avery - cut the newbies some slack

as if I were not cutting them slack; in fact not only did I never blame them for anything but I have strived to see each sector of them has the freedom and opportunity to thrive here.

I think the record speaks for itself; but if not, please cite anything at all I wrote to the contrary.

...or couldn't we just give our new members some peace...?

Ignore them? The whole point is to engage them; to encourage member to member interactivity, without forcing anything on anyone. The only "forced" activity is signing up

After browing 15 (20?) threads, they are forced to sign up.

and that is not my doing!! though I agree with it wholeheartedly, and support whoever designed and implemented it.

most people who join a new forum probably don't want to be harrassed and pestered with a bunch of intrusive schemes to get them posting.

Harrassed? Pestered? I made it quite plain I that the encouragement schemes I nominated were to be optional, and for those who would find them helpful; "ace detectives" who could manage on their own can simply do so.

the best way to encourage them to stay is to contribute quality material to the forum discussions. that way guests and new arrivals will see a healthy, thriving forum with a warm community feel and lots of interesting things to talk about.

This is certainly very important - but "best" implies that there should be one approach. I speak of supplementing this with a dual approach.

*sigh* I wanted this to be a short, simple post... Oh well...

Let us borrow an idea from marketing: traditional "push" marketing is when one is pushed into things, say with traditional advertising that exposes and emphasizes a product. "Pull" marketing is where the consumer is led, of their own volition, to try out a product, to come to it of their own free will. Examples include free samples, free trial periods, free use of a basic model to tempt one into paying for an enhanced model... And the most creative of all, alternate reality gaming, wherein, typically, a mystery is revealed and players solve the mystery, which has a product tie-in, such as the "I Love Bees" game which provided a backstory to Halo 2, to foster interest in the game itself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Love_Bees Note that ADISC itself operates via "pull" marketing: people want to come here, some expending much effort to do so.

The encouragement schemes I suggested are "pull" based, and not intrusive, because they are designed to be helpful, and because they are voluntary. Whether they - or others - should be imlemented or not depends on many factors, such as their ultimate effectiveness, their rate of usage, the time and effort required to set them up, conflicts with existing utilities, and so on. But it should not depend on their being mischaracterized.

Now you may well, at this juncture, quote me:

Dear Yawgmoth...
I am an obsessive raccoon, like yourself. I am not afraid to take a controversial stance either; but I have learned that when a position is indefensible, whether because it is flawed, or because the opposition are stubborn ignoramuses whose thick skulls you can't penetrate, or because you are (and logic dictates the possibility) the ignoramus, that discretion is the better part of valour, and it is better to back out graciously; one can back out without backing down. You are a very smart Yawgmoth and can figure out how to remove yourself from a futile debate while saving face. Sparing your enemies is merciful, not weak.

Dragging a conversation into an exchange of heated words, enflamed tempers, The thread exploding, Violence flarin’, bullets loadin’ - is not productive, and you know about provoking drama... You're better than that.

Tut, tut

The difference is threefold: 1. none of us is abandoning reasonable debate in favor of emotional rants or insults, and 2. my position is defensible as long as it is not misunderstood or mischaracterized, and 3. as per

contribute quality material to the forum discussions. that way guests and new arrivals will see a healthy, thriving forum with a warm community feel and lots of interesting things to talk about.

I do so to the best of my ability and encourage likewise, especially given

http://www.adisc.org/forum/announcements-news/697-rules.html

# Be honest.
# Be polite.
# Follow moderator instructions.

and

especially good contributions to the site... Examples include posts which:

1. demonstrate great kindness
2. explain something in great detail and contain a lot of wisdom or valuable insights (even if you disagree with the points put forward)
3. contain content that is very helpful to other members, or to people new to the site.
4. are exceptionally funny

 

[Rissy]

But I think it's important to know Moo's agenda...
I mean, it's better to strip away the delusion that a forum is a democracy. Essentially, ADISC is whatever the hell Moo wants it to be, whether you like it or not. It's better to be blunt about your rules and expectations. Newbies have to know that they have to be intelligent and helpful. And they need to see that this forum hates all the perversion and lieing.

I don't like the apathy and pretentious coddling of the newbies that has developed. For a quality forum, people need to be enforcing of quality. I mean, there ISN'T enough Mod's and it's not like you can have enough Mod's. So it's better when you're able to drill the idea into new members, that we don't tolerate that kind of behavior.

 

[Raccoon]

But I think it's important to know Moo's agenda...
I mean, it's better to strip away the delusion that a forum is a democracy. Essentially, ADISC is whatever the hell Moo wants it to be, whether you like it or not. It's better to be blunt about your rules and expectations. Newbies have to know that they have to be intelligent and helpful. And they need to see that this forum hates all the perversion and lieing.

For a quality forum, people need to be enforcing of quality. I mean, there ISN'T enough Mod's and it's not like you can have enough Mod's. So it's better when you're able to drill the idea into new members, that we don't tolerate that kind of behavior.

Absolutely right on and repworthy, especially about needing new mods. The present staff are swift, talented, hard working and work long hours. I also have stated that they could work more effectively though, with some updated approaches, especially with an eye to the future when we will have grown in size.

I don't like the apathy:

apathy is a killer, and part of it is "business as usual." I only disagree with

pretentious coddling of the newbies that has developed.

for reasons already on record. More mods would split the workload and provide new input, helping all the staff and therefore the site; it suggests no inadequacy on any of the present staffers.

 

[babibear]

ADISC is meant to be a supportive social community for (mainly young) people who like diapers.

Is the 'mainly young' part really that necessary?

 

[Raccoon]

Yes; speaking from personal experience, young tb/dl's have no other place to go, especially seeing that all other sites I know of are adult-oriented (other than some furry or babyfur places) and dangerous/otherwise unsuitable for minors. If I had only been a teen in this day and age...

Part of the genius of Moo is having created a fetish-themed site where adults and minors can mix in relative safety and harmony. This is a tall order. I know that certain incon/bedwetting sites are spammed and trolled by fetishists and ruin those sites' ability to cater to minors. Some of them run by large corporations who should know better.