memes and negative reputation

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Moo

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As you may notice, the rules were changed today with regards to memes.

Essentially, you can now get legitimate negative reputation for using a meme like "facepalm" or "you fail at life" instead of dealing with a situation constructively.

Example 1 :
Say a newbie posts some very unlikely story with terrible spelling to the forum as part of their intro thread. Replying with "facepalm" to this is not constructive, because the newbie probably won't understand and is very unlikely to learn anything from the experience. A much better way of dealing with the situation would be to remind the newbie that Firefox, Microsoft Word, etc have built-in spell-check tools, and that poor spelling makes posts hard to read. You could also post something along the lines of "your girlfriend agreed to diaper you? At 15? Isn't that really rare?" to make the point that his story is not believable, without insulting him or giving the impression of despair.

Example 2 :
Someone posts a drama-filled thread about how they can't get a job, don't have the grades to get into school again, their family don't want them because they have a drug habit, etc. You could reply "you fail at life", but this is wrong. Instead, you should either :
(1) Ignore it, because you're not interested in this.
OR
(2) Report it to the mods (
) as drama, and let the mods deal with it.
OR
(3) Try to be supportive and positive about it. You could suggest a new way for the person to look for jobs, for example, or give a tip on how to give up drugs.

If you use a short, put-down meme like "you fail at life" or "facepalm" to deal with a difficult situation, don't be surprised if you get negative reputation for doing so.

You don't have to give negative rep to people who use memes, but you should give negative rep to people who use memes in a way that makes a situation worse, instead of better.

The 'bad' memes that I want to get rid of are things like "facepalm", "you fail at life", and similar memes that are used primarily to put others down, and to lower the tone of the discussion.
 

Vladimir

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First of all, I never saw anyone who's stupid enough to say "You fail at life" in a thread like this, though it's not like I approve it. I also believe that the facepalm thing is explicit enough, especially in the example that you typed. And what about other memes like lolcats?
 

Moo

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First of all, I never saw anyone who's stupid enough to say "You fail at life" in a thread like this
I saw someone do it two days ago. it made me sad :-(
DarkSunDS said:
, though it's not like I approve it. I also believe that the facepalm thing is explicit enough, especially in the example that you typed.
DarkSunDS said:
And what about other memes like lolcats?
Same rules for all memes. Don't use em in a way which makes the thread go south.
 

Darkfinn

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Aww... well that takes half the fun away... come on... admit it... some of these people deserve it.
 

Martin

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he problem is that what's fun for you isn't necessarily fun for others. And remember that this is a support forum!
 
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Are you talking about the joking Fail At Life Card image?

I hope not.
 

kevintje

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I like the idea, this new form of insulting just sickens me.

if you have a problem with someone's post, just tell them, or ignore them like I mostly do. the cat things are sometimes funny, but it's still rude and offensive, and I wouldn't like to get a reply like that on my posts :(

so... good rule!
 

g6s

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As you may notice, the rules were changed today with regards to memes.

Essentially, you can now get legitimate negative reputation for using a meme like "facepalm" or "you fail at life" instead of dealing with a situation constructively.
I am disappointed to see this appear: Every now and then I feel something like this is just so appropriate to someone making such silly, blatant mistakes. There was a study released (and published in the NY Magazine) about people being "supported" too much, and the negative impacts it has on their life. If everyone is told they're "super duper," then everyone is going to get dumbed and dumber. If everyone here is accepted with open hands, then everyone is going to succumb to posts with less and less quality. From 2004 until now, I have steadily watched the number of intelligent post per 100 posts decline. By implementing this, I feel the posts of dumber individuals will overwhelm this board.

I know in theory it's nice to be supportive, but in reality, it usually hurts individuals if it's done too much. Intelligence is earned, my friends, and it's not earned by us slacking out to each person who comes onto this board. We're doing them a major disparagement.
 

Vladimir

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Rick Roll is a meme, so do I have the right to neg rep the guy who created a thread for Monkey?
 

Squigma

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I am disappointed to see this appear: Every now and then I feel something like this is just so appropriate to someone making such silly, blatant mistakes. There was a study released (and published in the NY Magazine) about people being "supported" too much, and the negative impacts it has on their life. If everyone is told they're "super duper," then everyone is going to get dumbed and dumber. If everyone here is accepted with open hands, then everyone is going to succumb to posts with less and less quality. From 2004 until now, I have steadily watched the number of intelligent post per 100 posts decline. By implementing this, I feel the posts of dumber individuals will overwhelm this board.

I know in theory it's nice to be supportive, but in reality, it usually hurts individuals if it's done too much. Intelligence is earned, my friends, and it's not earned by us slacking out to each person who comes onto this board. We're doing them a major disparagement.
I totally agree with everything there, but it's not quite relevant to this new rule. The point of it is to stop mindless insulting, not to force people to be supportive of all behavior.

Thoughtful, constructive criticism is more helpful than simply telling someone they "fail at life", which is ineffective because it fails to explain exactly what's wrong - leaving the person confused, rather than educated. Yes, it may turn away the person, but that would not be helpful to them. I think it's better to help people become what we want in our community, rather than kick out anyone we don't want.
 
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Vladimir

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Just because some people use memes like this doesn't mean memes "are evil and should be disallowed".
 

Moo

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Rick Roll is a meme, so do I have the right to neg rep the guy who created a thread for Monkey?
Nope. As I said earlier :

Essentially, you can now get legitimate negative reputation for using a meme like "facepalm" or "you fail at life" instead of dealing with a situation constructively.
I only want to discourage people from using demotivating memes instead of bringing something up in a constructive way.

I am disappointed to see this appear: Every now and then I feel something like this is just so appropriate to someone making such silly, blatant mistakes. There was a study released (and published in the NY Magazine) about people being "supported" too much, and the negative impacts it has on their life. If everyone is told they're "super duper," then everyone is going to get dumbed and dumber. If everyone here is accepted with open hands, then everyone is going to succumb to posts with less and less quality. From 2004 until now, I have steadily watched the number of intelligent post per 100 posts decline. By implementing this, I feel the posts of dumber individuals will overwhelm this board.
You're not the first to complain that the post quality has fallen since 2004.

You're partly right. The average post quality now is much lower than it was in 2004, partly because we have a lot more younger members than we did then, and partly because we've just gotten bigger, and dumbing down is an inevitable part of becoming popular. Sad but true.
On the other hand... we have many more *intelligent* posts than we did then, simply because we have so many posts now, even if the percentage is declining, the absolute number of smart posts is going up.

handfulofoats said:
I know in theory it's nice to be supportive, but in reality, it usually hurts individuals if it's done too much. Intelligence is earned, my friends, and it's not earned by us slacking out to each person who comes onto this board. We're doing them a major disparagement.
The point of that article is that praising effort is a better idea than praising "innate intelligence".

You can praise effort, or criticize someone for lack of effort, just as easily with or without memes.

Consider the case of a newbie with bad spelling.
Which is more likely to motivate him to learn?
"LEARN 2 SPELL"
"you fail at spelling"
"facepalm"

... or ...

"It is hard to read your posts, because of your poor spelling. If you used Firefox or a spellchecker of any kind, you wouldn't have this problem and your posts would get a lot more responses."

You can still tell the people who screw up that they're screwing up. You can still tell them they're not putting in the required effort.

I've seen some pretty harsh negative reputation reasons along the lines of "FFS, LEARN TO SPELL", and let them stand, because while harsh, they represent the truth - people with poor spelling tend to get ignored or laughed at until they learn to spell, and that everyone can learn to spell if they put in the effort.

This isn't about coddling the newbies and making sure that any amount of stupid behaviour is tolerated. This isn't about being polite. This certainly isn't about praising everyone.

This is simply about being constructive. About being critical in a way that is constructive, rather than a way that that person criticised cannot understand.
You might feel really happy by saying "LEARN TO SPELL", but will the newbie (say, a 16 year old male) pay attention to you? Probably not. On the other hand, if you said "your poor spelling makes it hard for us to read your posts. You would get more replies if you used a spellchecker on your posts, really, it isn't that difficult", then he's more likely to listen.

It isn't a case of "nobody can fail". It is more a case of "when someone is getting it wrong, deal with it in a constructive way". "Constructive" doesn't mean treating them with kid gloves, it means attempting to fix the situation, rather than just laugh at them getting it wrong.
 

Thallis

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I see what you're trying to say, but people tend to try harder to avoid embarrassing situations. When you get a fail pic, accompanied by the reason you fail, people tend to learn a lot quicker
 

Vladimir

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"It is hard to read your posts, because of your poor spelling. If you used Firefox or a spellchecker of any kind, you wouldn't have this problem and your posts would get a lot more responses."

Very funny, but I don't see myself writing a paragraph instead of simply saying "Learn to spell".



Also, let's say I'm in the Pirates VS Ninjas thread, can I post this?
 

Moo

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"It is hard to read your posts, because of your poor spelling. If you used Firefox or a spellchecker of any kind, you wouldn't have this problem and your posts would get a lot more responses."

Very funny, but I don't see myself writing a paragraph instead of simply saying "Learn to spell".
That's because you're not putting in enough effort :p

"Learn to spell" as a rep reason is fine. "Learning to spell would be a good idea" as a post is harsh, but probably alright. Neither of these are as good as the above, however.

DarkSunDS said:
Also, let's say I'm in the Pirates VS Ninjas thread, can I post this?
Yes. It doesn't make the thread worse, so yeah, fine.

I personally think the use of lolcats is rather lame, and that even debating the pirates versus ninjas thing is a waste of time... and that we'd be better off discussing more challenging topics.
 

Pramrider

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Kind of like the old saying, "you can catch more flies with sugar than you can with vinegar." It's not what you say, but how you say it that can determine whether someone will take your advice in a kindly way and try to improve in areas they are weak.

Supervisors where I worked were instructed in FL (Facilitative Leadership) and part of that is how to address workers who need to improve in some areas of their job. One thing they're taught is to first give upbuilding commendation for what they're doing well. Second, when bringing up areas where improvement is needed; positive, constructive suggestions are offered for them to try with, hopefully, the results being better overall job performance. As the worker's performance improves, additional commendation is given to reinforce the worker's efforts to bring their performance up to par.

A newbie with less-than-ideal typing skills or poor grammar should likewise be commended, first of all, for the courage to even post on the forums at all. It's not easy for many to admit to their *B side around strangers, even though on a support group like ADISC. Then suggestions for improvement as Moo put forth could be offered in a kind way. If anyone notices improvement in the newbie's posting skills it would be a nice thing to commend them on the improved quality of their posts, which should go a long way in encouraging them to continue the good efforts.

Hope this isn't too much of a repeat of what's already been said.

~Pramrider
 

baby jester

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i agree Moo, the lolcats are kinda stupid and i like positive thinking. if someone makes a fake story or one that sounds fake we could always make it a hypothetical situation. challenging topics would be good but i wish someone would think of some (i will make that a goal, to come up with interesting hypothetical situations).
 

Moo

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FYI, I've created the "Mature Threads" forum to encourage more serious threads and deep thinking.
 

ShippoFox

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No drama? You can report something for being "drama"....? Is that really a good idea? I mean, isn't "drama" okay as long as no one starts flaming/trolling over it? The world isn't perfect and people are going to want to talk about their problems sometimes... which can be considered drama. And I mean, as has been said, this is a support forum. :sweatdrop: I suppose that's what the blogs are for though, but which rules do/don't apply to the blogs?
I think that maybe more clarification is needed.
 
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andysetra

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I guess I never thought of 'facepalm' as a negative comment, but more of the equivalent of an emoticon. If the post consists *only* of a facepalm, then yes, it is useless. But I never had a problem with using the word *in* a useful post. But hey, if it's offensive to some, then I apologize and it shouldn't be used anymore.... and 'You fail at life' is just an awful thing to say...period.
 
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