Luvs/Pampers Fragrance, 80s baby, Chemist turned Perfumist

Diaps

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perhaps, but we know that Amouage Gold Man has Civet in it's notes and according to this: "The chemical in civet oil that gives it most of its distinctive odor is civetone, at a concentration of between 2.5 and 3.4 percent. The oil also includes various other ketones such as cyclopentadecanone, cyclohexadecanone, cycloheptadecanone, and 6-cis-cycloheptadecenone".

I don't see civetone or any of the cyclo... chemicals listed, which leads me to wonder if the Parfum means pure natural chemicals and all the others listed are synthetic chemicals?

You are basically correct which is why I'm not relying on them telling me what I want. It's the MAIN reason I built SD18, I needed a full fledged perfume base to work from. Also as described later the various cinnamals can have their own unique additions that are powerfully Rose and civet like. It's the fact we have NO 80s pampers fragrances that itself is the clue.

The perfume world SUCKS for information. The work @ArchtopK has done is the only reason this is even happening. It was a patent he found that led me to find the very old SD18.

Looking at Many perfumes I'm 100 percent sure they lie basically ALL the DAMN time. They will list things that are rash causing agents (foreshadowing) when it sorta suits them and the US has harder laws than Canada yet it's only Canadian and EU perfumes that have extensive ingredient listings... Ingredient lists have to be in order by %weight. Parfum IS being listed ahead of everything (indicating it's more by weight) but on several perfumes that have been cloned we know that they have like 2 percent in that placeholder. The companies don't really care about anything other than pissing off the IFRA https://ifrafragrance.org To be blacklisted by them means Nobody will carry your fragrance.

My looking to clone Amouage gold wasn't caring about the easy to get unregulated things like vanillins or cashmeran, it's the REALLY hard to get rash causing compounds. How do I describe this, I'm hunting for this based on things that are banned. I got switched out of pampers because of a perfume rash and was back in them for bedwetting years when they had moved the perfume to under the pad (we know now), no rash but also only in them at night. Scent is a HUGE part of a brand, if Pampers could have stayed smelling exactly the same way, they would have. Perfumes stayed the same because it's a known risk. There are 1950s era perfumes still under production now. The powerful rose notes in Amouage are partly coming from one the various cinnamals (which do not all smell like cinnamon) which are SO banned it's actually proving difficult to get them all. When even Sigmaaldrich isn't carrying them anymore, unless I want an analytical sample...
IF the secret ingredient is something I actually have to synthesize....

As the years are going by the chance of finding pampers 1980 is becoming less and less. P&G would have it locked in a vault somewhere and yet we should have seen a leak. The total lack of that specific smell means it's not being used in new formulations (big hint). FFS @ArchtopK has camped perfume counters at perfume shows looking for this (pretty sure it was him) and not found it.

Our target is moving backwards with time, SD18 wasn't a perfect match but rubber had to meet the road, 80 pampers 1 generations hence won't mean anything to them.
 

ArchtopK

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"if Pampers could have stayed smelling exactly the same way, they would have." This is hard to know. There was 10 years of unscented product. I asked PG customer service about the new scent when it had returned, and they told me that they were trying for more of a baby powder scent. That at least was some admission that the original scent was something different. We don't know what the driving decisions were behind the original scent. A Kimberly Clark patent from the 70's refers to a coconut vanilla scent. This would sound more like suntan lotion than diapers. The point I am making is that we don't really now what type of market research drives these types of decisions in these big companies. Did P&G develop that original scent? or did they farm it out to an independent perfumer? The early diaper patents make reference to two different companies. One is in NJ and one was in Europe but they are gone now. Was there serious debate or did they just choose over a range of possible choices? I would love to know how the original scent came into being.
 

BobbiSueEllen

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A Kimberly Clark patent from the 70's refers to a coconut vanilla scent. This would sound more like suntan lotion than diapers.
You just solved my next deepest mystery: why my mind starts playing Rupert Holmes' "Escape (The Piña Colada Song)" whenever I get a whiff of KimberlyClark. :ROFLMAO: 🤭
 

Diaps

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"if Pampers could have stayed smelling exactly the same way, they would have." This is hard to know. There was 10 years of unscented product. I asked PG customer service about the new scent when it had returned, and they told me that they were trying for more of a baby powder scent. That at least was some admission that the original scent was something different. We don't know what the driving decisions were behind the original scent. A Kimberly Clark patent from the 70's refers to a coconut vanilla scent. This would sound more like suntan lotion than diapers. The point I am making is that we don't really now what type of market research drives these types of decisions in these big companies. Did P&G develop that original scent? or did they farm it out to an independent perfumer? The early diaper patents make reference to two different companies. One is in NJ and one was in Europe but they are gone now. Was there serious debate or did they just choose over a range of possible choices? I would love to know how the original scent came into being.
This was May 2018. I was always hoping to make contact with him. He probably knew everything.
All your points are correct, that is in fact my point. I knew I would have to Jurassic park this thing. We are archaeologists, believe me when you find it (and you will eventually), It will be named after you. My hopes won't be dashed if I get the parts that P&G has banned that are also in Amouage and it's a failure. I have a mosquito with parts of Pampers in it and if I have to add some frog or salamander, meh.

There is no failure in this, we have NO target which to even AIM at, everyone who would know is literally, apparently DEAD. Don't worry if I gather my idea and it's a failure, I won't care, it's not like there's a youtube video on this and I have failed :D.

Also, If you have another way I am unaware of, something you haven't spoken of, some other clue, please please, PLEASE, do share....

Some of those cinnamals in Amouage (and old pampers), yeah, they are SUPER DANGEROUS. Like considered for wartime use, danger. As in beyond 1.5 percent use is rash in Everyone and spilling a small amount in a room means you clear the room or Die, hacking up your lungs. I'm doing this because I Don't want to wear a respirator with acid gas cartridges anymore, IDK if that would even block it off the top of my head.... Come to think about it, that guy died sorta young, and had health complications, hmmm.

Scents Cannot be perfectly replicated without the actual compound, spearmint is a great example. Spearmint itself is a chiral molecule, the exact same molecule reversed, has no flavour or smell. You can even Have the exact compound, chemically, but it's not the right compound.

Pampers now reminds me of 80s pampers but it's not the same, it's missing something that wasn't turned down it was removed and replaced with something, or several somethings. Meanwhile Luvs stayed the same but got much weaker only recently changed their fragrance, apparently.
Until someone *cough* finds me a proper formula I will continue firing blindly. "Eat Dirt, everything in the immediate vicinity" -Earthworm Jim.
 

Diaps

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It somehow feels better knowing he died long before I could have done anything about it. 2018, I was like, Crap, flubbed that chance.
 

jellyjigger

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Hi @Diaps, I received my mailer yesterday. By the way, brav-o for the professional heat sealing/lamination you did. There was *zero* scent on the outside and inside of the envelope. Thanks again for sending this out. Can you explain the best way to open the mini pouches? I cut the lamination a strip off the top just to the edge of the material but couldn't spread open the insides. They are so sealed well (actually they look double-sealed) and I don't want to screw up the initial experience by cutting in the middle. Thanks :)
 
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Diaps

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Hi @Diaps, I received my mailer yesterday. By the way, brav-o for the professional heat sealing/lamination you did. There was *zero* scent on the outside and inside of the envelope. Thanks again for sending this out. Can you explain the best way to the mini pouches? They are sealed well (actually they look double-sealed) and I don't want to screw up the initial experience. Thanks :)
At either short side of the foil, if you look closely one side is folded and one is open. I think most of them were the right side is the open one, that were labelled.
IMG_0709.jpg
You want to open em like a pouch. I found the laminating glue gave an odor immediatly on opening, so cut the edge of the foil off and waft the pouch before bringing near your face and wafting it. I'm using one of the strips of papers (some had one folded, some had 2 strips, same amount) in the bottom of a bag of Safaris to test as a diaper scenting strip.

Pampers Scent aside we have discovered a very discreet way to send VERY babyish scents through private letter mail.

Edit. Cut right into the foil to open em. Saw your edit :D. The scented paper is tight against the folded side and has a quarter inch clearance on all other sides, more on the open fold.

OH balls and I just remembered a couple of em had latereal folds instead.... Yeah, you get to live through the design process in real time and corrections were made.

Cut the right hand ---> thinner side right into the foil.
 
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farminlittle

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Hey I got my sample from @Diaps and they smell wonderful! Not necessarily pampers but you can tell there are notes from pampers there. Especially after they have diffused for a little while. @Diaps is definitely on the right track! I wonder if you had that scent mixed with the materials of the diapers themselves how close it would actually be.
 

kratox

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Not sure if this would be of any assistance since I personally have not tried these but there is a brand called Attento in japan that apparently still scents their diapers from reviews I've read.

This use to be owned by P&G, you might want to do some research on them and see if any of the same scents were used.

Its a shot in the dark but might help out.
 

quartz200420012

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I got the samples today in the mail. Honestly, SweetDreams18 smells a bit more familiar. The DiapsMod 5 sample doesn't.

I compared it with the "Mommies Scents" fragrance that could be bought on ebay in the mid 2000's. SweetDreams18 is somewhat similar but more floral.
 

ykdprdave

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I don’t know about everyone else, but my biggest memory of the scent on the early 90’s diapers has a lot to do with the plastic in the packaging too. I know the bags smelled almost better than the diapers themselves 😂

that smell in the diaper aisle though 😍
 

Diaps

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Not sure if this would be of any assistance since I personally have not tried these but there is a brand called Attento in japan that apparently still scents their diapers from reviews I've read.

This use to be owned by P&G, you might want to do some research on them and see if any of the same scents were used.

Its a shot in the dark but might help out.
Literally everything helps, the guy who knew died in the 80s.

I got the samples today in the mail. Honestly, SweetDreams18 smells a bit more familiar. The DiapsMod 5 sample doesn't.

I compared it with the "Mommies Scents" fragrance that could be bought on ebay in the mid 2000's. SweetDreams18 is somewhat similar but more floral.
See that makes sense, SD18 smells like Luvs to me the changes were accidental to the sample I had decanted. I never tried the mommy scents since in the mid 2000s they weren't readily available here in Canada. SD18 is like Luvs if it was made into an expensive Womens perfume, is basically what I think of it.
 
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BobbiSueEllen

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Even if we ended up with a scent more like Luvs than Pampers, it's still all right since they're so close. I can hardly wait for the scents to arrive here, am eager to find out for myself. Here's to hoping! 🥳
 
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jellyjigger

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When I first cut the slit open from the SD18 package, I smelled a great scent that snapped me back to 1982 (a scent I had nearly forgotten), but I never associated this scent with the pampers brand! This was nearly spot-on for a heavenly diaper scent I had forgotten about until I smelled this. If this was one of pampers original scents, then I'm thinking there must have been at least 3 pampers scent variations. After this scent was discontinued, pampers went with something drastically different, which is similar to the luvs scent we had(?)have today and that's what I had associated with pampers all these years. Either way, I consider it a success since it brought back something from my childhood I forgot I even knew!

Now when I fully opened the package and took a 2nd whiff, the smell completely changed. Its not that the insides were too strong, its as if the oxygen hitting it changed the notes into something different. I'm going to try and see if I can impart it on some diapers and then take it away and monitor scent changes. What I recognized was probably oxidized perfume with whatever notes are left after the scents decay into other scents. The 2nd package (the mod scent) I don't recognize at all.

I don’t know about everyone else, but my biggest memory of the scent on the early 90’s diapers has a lot to do with the plastic in the packaging too. I know the bags smelled almost better than the diapers themselves

You bring up a good point that shouldn't be underestimated: the smell of the more-toxic plastic than the plastic we use nowadays- backing. Back in the 80s, just about all products with heavy-use of plastic had easily detectable vinyl and other plastic-y odors. Over the years these odors have been reduced and even eliminated in some formulas as once legal but known harmful agents in plastics were replaced with safer alternatives I'm guessing. Testing on our best plastic-smelling diapers will be needed to complete the scent profile ;)
 

Diaps

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When I first cut the slit open from the SD18 package, I smelled a great scent that snapped me back to 1982 (a scent I had nearly forgotten), but I never associated this scent with the pampers brand! This was nearly spot-on for a heavenly diaper scent I had forgotten about until I smelled this. If this was one of pampers original scents, then I'm thinking there must have been at least 3 pampers scent variations. After this scent was discontinued, pampers went with something drastically different, which is similar to the luvs scent we had(?)have today and that's what I had associated with pampers all these years. Either way, I consider it a success since it brought back something from my childhood I forgot I even knew!

Now when I fully opened the package and took a 2nd whiff, the smell completely changed. Its not that the insides were too strong, its as if the oxygen hitting it changed the notes into something different. I'm going to try and see if I can impart it on some diapers and then take it away and monitor scent changes. What I recognized was probably oxidized perfume with whatever notes are left after the scents decay into other scents. The 2nd package (the mod scent) I don't recognize at all.



You bring up a good point that shouldn't be underestimated: the smell of the more-toxic plastic than the plastic we use nowadays- backing. Back in the 80s, just about all products with heavy-use of plastic had easily detectable vinyl and other plastic-y odors. Over the years these odors have been reduced and even eliminated in some formulas as once legal but known harmful agents in plastics were replaced with safer alternatives I'm guessing. Testing on our best plastic-smelling diapers will be needed to complete the scent profile ;)


I know, halfway through the build there was a point where it smelled exactly like glitched pampers I had once, it was also missing something in the perfume and was flowery but not pampers. I need to open a V mod, I never checked after to see if the heat maybe cooked the raw vanillins, they don't smell as good after.... I just opened a blank midway one (close enough). They are Very strong, maybe almost overpowering, but you can always snip a small bit and put it between clean paper to allow it to thin a bit.

The more I have tested and smelled it, while the blanks and V mod smell good, it's not in the direction of pampers. Fresh from mixing my nose is overloaded and it takes days for the air to clear. I'm going to start moving in the direction of more warm rose type cinnamals. Some of them are literally the same things in hot candy hearts. "Toss a cup of dry cinnamon hearts in a blender, crush and waft with a scent card", is literally on my list in the next couple days.

SD18 is from a diaper, that much is becoming certain, SO... What else was in those patents with it?... I haven't cross referenced the banned P&G chem list with the patent formulas yet... In the lineup was there a super nervous, absorbent, sweaty dude and I picked the wrong one ?

As to plastics, we have radically changed plasticizers and blowing agents since the 80s. Poly chlorinated biphenyls used to be used in plastics manufacture... That's the super bad stuff that we have to dispose of with arc furnaces and plasma reactors... Some of those things we don't Don't want to replicate... The upside is it was only used for making it and the odour shouldn't be something we need to hunt down :p..


Edit and I just realized something, I'm been looking at the state of diaper making the last couple days, we used to use softwood pulp with way more terpenes still in it. Resinous softwoods are used for diapers. The SD18 scents really came out when used in a diaper. The plastic would play a role but the pulp itself is vital as well... Adding pine terpenes is Dumb easy and among the banned lists, I like doing science.
 
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Honeywell6180

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Interesting research here. I remember that back in the 1970's, Pampers had literally the same scent as Charmin toilet paper. Either were quite pleasant. I assume the scent was made especially for deodorizing purposes, as well making the product more pleasant to use.
 

TyTyTheGuyGuy

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I gotta say, this is exciting to read after realizing just how weak the LUVs scent has gotten recently. Given that I was a 90s kid, I probably associate more with the stronger version of LUVs than the older pampers since those are what I would have smelled when seeking out diapers as a child. I actually remember buying a pack of pampers around 2010 and being disappointed, but when I went back and smelled the LUVs I was taken back to the diaper aisle circa 2000.

Either way, I am really excited to see what you eventually come up with. For now, mixing some Dreft pellets in a spray bottle is getting me by, but I'm enjoying the hunt we are having!
 
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