Looking for advice from people in relationships.

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plasticsounds

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I have been a part of this site on and off since 2008. In that time I have enjoyed the advice, arguments, insults, compliments, crys for help, and the saving advice that followed. So thank you for that. All of you.

Now this is not a cry for help in the sense that I am horribly depressed and plan on doing something terrible to myself. I am actually very emotionally stable and generally happy. What I am asking for here is advice from people that are in stable relationships. So, here it goes.

I have been a DL my whole life. I lived in closeted denial for almost 40 years of that time. Sneaking in the occasional diaper when I could, but essentially feeling guilty and ashamed of my DL feelings. Around 6 years ago, just before I turned 40, my feelings reached an apex and with the advice from this site I came out to my wife. I have already gone through that story, so I won't do it again. To sum up, my wife didn't take it well and has since come to terms with it. She absolutely refuses to waiver from her disgust and misunderstanding of the whole thing, however. We have been together for over 25 years, married for almost 17 (with one child). She was raised Italian Catholic, so her moral compass is set in stone. More importantly, I love her and respect her. With the exception of my Diaper loving, she feels the same towards me. Interestingly, I relate with her most of the time. My German Catholic upbringing has given me the same inbred moral compass. I constantly feel shame, guilt and at extremes, disgust about my own behavior. Because of this insight, I don't hold against her her vanilla mindset.

So that is the background. Here is the situation.

My diaper feelings are currently in overdrive. This happens, as we all know. Ebbs and flows. I don't purge anymore (thank you maturity) but I do have lulls that can last months. The thing that I have been mulling over is, what can I do to participate in this wonderful proclivity without violating the commitment I have made with my wife? More specifically, is venturing out beyond the relationship in a platonic way a valid move?

I fear I already know the answer.

How about this? I am a member of a Fetlife group that organizes a monthly Munch. Would participating in this be a violation? Taken further, if I lied about where I was going in order to participate, how much of an a$$hole would I be?

As much as I enjoy my time online. I really feel the need to talk to people face to face. Talking is all I want right now, and the Munch seems the most innocent of starting points. I have no idea what I expect to accomplish by going. I just have to know if meeting people face to face will enhance my enjoyment of this, or prove to me once and for all that I will participate in this in isolation for ever.

Sad to think, but possible. As much as I like Fetlife, it scares me a little. As I skew to the AB side of the force, my 'little' is nervous.

More importantly, I don't want to jeopardize my family for this fetish. Even though it can dominate my life at times.
 

Khaymen

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First, you have got to let your wife know that this is a nonnegotiable part of who you are. Perhaps this needs to be done within the confines of a marriage counselors office. Christian or secular, a good counselor will assure your wife that this behavior is psychologically healthy.

Second, any type off meeting, be it sexual or platonic, that you need to lie to your wife about is going to affect your relationship negatively. It would be better to have honest tension in your relationship that you could work through than a relationship built on misdirection, half truths, and lies.
 

ozbub

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Sounds like your wife has chosen a kind of indifference to your desires, yeah....but no sort of acceptance...yet you say she's come to terms with it. Does she perceive this as a sickness or something....hanging in there for the "in sickness or in health" clause. If so, her current tolerance probably wouldnt extend to what might otherwise seem to her as cheating :dunno: I guess as you know her best, you need to work it out. If possible, I'd say you need to arrive at a decision with her. Yes I realise that currently this doesn't seem an option, but perhaps you need to re-explore 'You' and your needs, with her. There may be a chance to up the anti in your own relationship....if not then at least you may be in a stronger position to discuss other discrete arrangements.
I'm sorry if I'm coming off consellorish....im really just guessing. I wish you luck:)
 

Trevor

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I can't speak to every much everywhere but the ones I have attended are pretty low key, social events. If you describe it as a social support group to your wife, I don't think you'd be far off the mark, at least insofar as your good intentions would dictate. You could ask in whatever group you belong to if it is okay to bring uninvolved partners (it has been when I have attended). It sounds like your wife wouldn't be interested but I think being able to invite her goes a long way toward legitimizing the outing. I don't know if going will directly help you but it may help you put this in a more social context as well, which was very helpful to me overall.
 

Fruitkitty

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If you have to ask if something is important enough that you need to share with your partner, then it's something important enough that you need to share with your partner.

You have to explain your needs, you have to ask her how far she's comfortable with you going, and you two need to come to an understanding of boundaries. It's not going to be a fun conversation, but it's a necessary one. It's not fair to you to have your needs unmet and it's not fair to her for you to meet them behind her back.
 

Scaramouche

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I won't repeat all the good advice already given but when you talk to your wife, stress the platonic part and tell her it's a support group not a dating place.
 

plasticsounds

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First, you have got to let your wife know that this is a nonnegotiable part of who you are. Perhaps this needs to be done within the confines of a marriage counselors office. Christian or secular, a good counselor will assure your wife that this behavior is psychologically healthy.

Second, any type off meeting, be it sexual or platonic, that you need to lie to your wife about is going to affect your relationship negatively. It would be better to have honest tension in your relationship that you could work through than a relationship built on misdirection, half truths, and lies.

As far as part one. Counseling. It is difficult for one to embrace counseling (my wife) when there is 'absolutely no reason I need counseling'. We actually have issues with our sex life in general. I have been hinting at getting help. The best response I have gotten from her is that our sex life is personal, not the business of anyone else.

Part two? I really do agree with this. This is why I haven't done anything of the sort before.

Sounds like your wife has chosen a kind of indifference to your desires, yeah....but no sort of acceptance...yet you say she's come to terms with it. Does she perceive this as a sickness or something....hanging in there for the "in sickness or in health" clause. If so, her current tolerance probably wouldnt extend to what might otherwise seem to her as cheating :dunno: I guess as you know her best, you need to work it out. If possible, I'd say you need to arrive at a decision with her. Yes I realise that currently this doesn't seem an option, but perhaps you need to re-explore 'You' and your needs, with her. There may be a chance to up the anti in your own relationship....if not then at least you may be in a stronger position to discuss other discrete arrangements.
I'm sorry if I'm coming off consellorish....im really just guessing. I wish you luck:)

I really want to be clear here. She has offered no form of acceptance at all. Tolerance is the only thing close, and that came with negotiation. Her initial response was so comically cliché, that I later laughed to myself. She never thought about the pedophile angle, thank god. She did start to question my upbringing, blamed my mother, thought my family is crazy in general (she may have a point there). Of course, in my case, I had a vanilla upbringing. Very happy. I look back on my childhood with fondness. She's not convinced.

I am very close to her parents. After getting to know their family for the last 25 years, what I can say is that even though they are all 100% Italian, you would swear they were from Egypt, living in denial for generations. (I love that joke!) They tend to brush off problems and conflict, as if it will go away. My wife has learned the hard way, that there are other ways to deal with conflict than to ignore it. My DL behavior seems to be her breaking point. My internal conflict is balancing my 'needs' with her 'needs'. I know that I am a DL and will always be. I would never force this on her. When it comes to heavy relationship issues, her intense vulnerabilities come forward and she retreats into a mild panic. I can't just ignore her response to this. I love her deeply. I was dishonest with her before by keeping this from her for almost 19 years. (I was also being dishonest with myself). When I told her she was shocked but the one thing I think she understood was how difficult it is for me to have these feelings and to tell her about them at all. Remember, in her family, you just bottle it up forever. Anyway, I think I have convinced myself that being dishonest once more, will pose less of a risk than telling her I am going to reveal myself to actual human beings. Herein lies the conflict.

I can't speak to every much everywhere but the ones I have attended are pretty low key, social events. If you describe it as a social support group to your wife, I don't think you'd be far off the mark, at least insofar as your good intentions would dictate. You could ask in whatever group you belong to if it is okay to bring uninvolved partners (it has been when I have attended). It sounds like your wife wouldn't be interested but I think being able to invite her goes a long way toward legitimizing the outing. I don't know if going will directly help you but it may help you put this in a more social context as well, which was very helpful to me overall.

Thank you for the information. I really felt that that was the case. This might be the evidence I if I decide to come clean. She would not attend, I am sure of that.

If you have to ask if something is important enough that you need to share with your partner, then it's something important enough that you need to share with your partner.

You have to explain your needs, you have to ask her how far she's comfortable with you going, and you two need to come to an understanding of boundaries. It's not going to be a fun conversation, but it's a necessary one. It's not fair to you to have your needs unmet and it's not fair to her for you to meet them behind her back.

In her head, the boundaries have been set. The problem is that the discussion of boundaries took place immediately after the revelation to her about my DL side. Obviously, we need to renegotiate. I am just trying to screw up the courage to discuss it. It's almost as scary as telling her the first time.

I won't repeat all the good advice already given but when you talk to your wife, stress the platonic part and tell her it's a support group not a dating place.

Thank you.

I appreciate all of your responses. I'm sure the tell, don't tell conflict hits us all at some point. My problem is that even asking the question puts me in a bad light. I do not enjoy being dishonest with my wife. One of the boundaries that my wife set was that I was to be discreet and for her or our child to not see any of it. Basically, she doesn't want to know. In my head this can be interpreted as do it as long as I don't know anything about it. That seems like an invitation to be dishonest.
 

dogboy

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What bothers me here is the lack of support your wife is giving you. I know of families where one spouse either became bi-polar or schizophrenic, and the other spouse never left them, never stopped supporting them, and did everything in their power to help them. In your case, you merely want to wear a diaper. I think your marriage has bigger problems than just the occasional wet diaper.

You do need to seek mutual counseling, and if not, have an ongoing conversation. None of us are perfect, and we all have something. She did accept you "for better or worse". I don't think this so called "worse" is all that bad considering what other people go through. My wife had her right leg amputated this year. In addition, I'm her kidney dialysis partner, and get her on her machine 5 nights a week. I spend a lot of my free time taking her to her many doctor appointments, and I would never abandon her, not even emotionally. I think your wife has it easy.
 

xtrabulk

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My honest opinion is, a spouse is a sexual caretaker. It is, in my opinion, a spouse's duty to help cultivate a healthy sex life for their partner. A big part of that is mitigating any and all shame. Email any sex therapist and ask if they think that's true. I know what the answer will be. Good luck...like dogboy said, your wife has it easy. My wife rages with ptsd at times, but I stick with her. Actually, it sounds like you feel worse than she does. Have you told her at times you hate this part of you? She should be more empathetic.
 

plasticsounds

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I appreciate all of the great advice and insight that you all have given me. I have made a decision. There is a munch this weekend. My work schedule allows a window of opportunity that won't involve actually fibbing about where I will be. I am going to make an appearance and test the waters. I know this is still deceptive, but in my mind I am ok with this scenario. I will let you all know how it goes. Although I suspect you will be upset that I chose to lie. Coming clean for this seems overly dramatic. I love my family. I also know them very well. Let me see if this is something I am even willing to put it on the line for.

There are deeper issues, I know. Deep. Issues.
 

Kenn

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I do not believe that this is deceptive. She has told you to be discreet and that she did not want to know. If she should find out and confront you, remind her of this directive.
 

plasticsounds

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I do not believe that this is deceptive. She has told you to be discreet and that she did not want to know. If she should find out and confront you, remind her of this directive.

Not that I need an excuse, but this is exactly where I am coming from. She asked for discretion, I will heed to her request.
 

Sanch

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Not that I need an excuse, but this is exactly where I am coming from. She asked for discretion, I will heed to her request.

Without trying to catastrophise, this worries me. As does what you've mentioned in the original post. I don't think a relationship can be particularly healthy if, as you said in the OP, your wife has an unwavering disgust towards your Little side, and forces you to keep an important part of your character and desires hidden. If she's unwilling to communicate or be understanding about something which is a deep-rooted and important facet of your personality and lifestyle, I would seriously consider whether this is a relationship which offers you the happiness and self-acceptance you need from life.

Also, I was raised in a strict Catholic family. I've never looked down on someone else for having non-Vanilla desires (let alone disparaging a partner for having them). I don't think a conservative upbringing is an excuse for being closed-minded.
 

Kenn

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Without trying to catastrophise, this worries me. As does what you've mentioned in the original post. I don't think a relationship can be particularly healthy if, as you said in the OP, your wife has an unwavering disgust towards your Little side, and forces you to keep an important part of your character and desires hidden. If she's unwilling to communicate or be understanding about something which is a deep-rooted and important facet of your personality and lifestyle, I would seriously consider whether this is a relationship which offers you the happiness and self-acceptance you need from life.

Also, I was raised in a strict Catholic family. I've never looked down on someone else for having non-Vanilla desires (let alone disparaging a partner for having them). I don't think a conservative upbringing is an excuse for being closed-minded.

Yes, but you are not vanilla either. To look down on the proclivities of others given your own would be a mite hypocritical, n'est–ce pas?
 

Sanch

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Yes, but you are not vanilla either. To look down on the proclivities of others given your own would be a mite hypocritical, n'est–ce pas?

It would, but then I don't think that being Vanilla is necessarily a barrier to understanding more left-field sexual desires and/or lifestyle choices. I'd say that in most senses, I'm a pretty mainstream individual, but I wouldn't look down on anyone who chooses an alternative lifestyle like Paganism or Nudism (to name just a couple), even though I personally don't understand that way of living and thinking.
 

Kenn

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It would, but then I don't think that being Vanilla is necessarily a barrier to understanding more left-field sexual desires and/or lifestyle choices. I'd say that in most senses, I'm a pretty mainstream individual, but I wouldn't look down on anyone who chooses an alternative lifestyle like Paganism or Nudism (to name just a couple), even though I personally don't understand that way of living and thinking.

What I am saying is that not being vanilla (and consequently being the subject to potential scorn) opens one up to acceptance of other alternatives.
 

plasticsounds

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Update.

So I went to the Munch.

Awesome.

I have to say, sitting in the pub eating and talking with other like-minded people was mentally validating. I know we have this and other site with which to communicate our feelings, But talking to real live people is comforting.

As far as my wife. I did not tell her and she does not suspect. I have no regrets, shame or guilt about it either. Everything about it was normal. The one thing I do feel is that now that I know how a Munch actually is, I might feel more comfortable telling her the next time I go.

After all of the back and forth in this thread, I went with my heart and it, so far, was the right thing to do.

Thanks again for letting me bounce this off of you guys.

I would like to add one thing. I would recommend that everyone find their local Munch and attend asap. I promise you wont regret it.
 

Kenn

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The one thing I do feel is that now that I know how a Munch actually is, I might feel more comfortable telling her the next time I go.

I wouldn't. Just because you understand Munch, doesn't mean that she ever will. Once again you will be in her face with your proclivities, which she does not want nor need. Her ignorance is her wish and you should respect that.
 

plasticsounds

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I wouldn't. Just because you understand Munch, doesn't mean that she ever will. Once again you will be in her face with your proclivities, which she does not want nor need. Her ignorance is her wish and you should respect that.

Noted. In retrospect, I agree with that.
 

Skunkdude

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plasticsounds - I can't give you easy advice, but I can tell you what will happen if you go to a Fetlife group behind your wife's back. You will push her over the edge, end up being divorced and disgraced within your family, and then have negative feelings about your sex life. Nobody will win.

What you have is not a sexual rights battle, but a perception of infantilism battle. Since you are one person, and likely to remain one against her and your families, you have a huge obstacle to overcome. Are you sure you want to fight that?

If you want to win this battle, you will need to first make it appear that you have numbers on your side. TV shows with men wearing diapers, movies, and other performing arts could be viewed together and discussed. Bring up discussions of astronauts and divers wearing diapers. Discuss the importance of diapers for elderly people. Do you get up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom only to have your sleep ruined? Diapers can help.

There is an intense social stigma about adults wearing diapers. Penetrate it with knowledge. Make it your goal to bring adult diapers into the conversation without being obsessive about it. Chip away slowly at the diaper stigma wall until she is ready to tear it down. Maybe there is someone else in your family whose wall is easier to penetrate? Work on them and then bring them into the discussion with your wife.

If you give in to the dark side, forever will it dominate your destiny. Lying, cheating, and breaking people's trust have never resulted in a good outcome.
 
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