James Cameron's Avatar - Your take?

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Izzy

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Big problems with the movie. Noble savage, white built, etc. Plot was pathetic and characters one-dimentional.

Graphics were nice but simply seemed to exist. Computing technology should be used in service of characterization and plot, not as a way to sell eye-candy.


I understand the comparison with 'message' films like WALL-E, but that's outrageous: the first 30 minutes of WALL-E were some some of the greatest minutes in film ever seen for its CHARACTER development.
 
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I understand the comparison with 'message' films like WALL-E, but that's outrageous: the first 30 minutes of WALL-E were some some of the greatest minutes in film ever seen for its CHARACTER development.
Comparing agenda-film with agenda-film is outrageous? Especially when indicating that the agenda got in the way of enjoying the movie? ALL CAPS HERE!
 

Fire2box

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As for Sam Worthington being disabled, I don't think that's the case.

Hes not, he was in better condition on terminator 4 then christian bale or the rest of the male cast was. Since he did play a terminator/human hybrid. Anyways it seems like I was right in not seeing Avatar just like I was with 2012.

However I saw up in the air and it was overly long and boring in some parts. Sherlock Holmes though was pretty good visually and decent plot wise, it being like 2+ hours long as well was actully not boring at any point to me.

Worst part about Sherlock Holmes is Holmes saying right before he does his karate "right kick to left knee, knee breaks, left fist to right elbow, elbow breaks.. summary.. 12 broken bones, 2 bruised ribs 3 broken ribs.. time to recovery 6 weeks.. mentally.. never" or something along that line.. thankfully it only happens once and its really for a non plot related boxing match.


Next movies I plan on see is Parnassuses (next thrusday) then the book of Eli, depending on reviews.. if not Daybreakers looks decent enough. Legion looks freaking stupid.
 
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LilpawsGHuskypup

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I enjoyed Avatar. The special effects were outstanding, the story brilliant and thoughtful and I was amazed how real it felt.
It made you think about human kind and it's methods...
But no, to me this is not some kind of divine masterpiece. I've seen other movies that I like better than Avatar.

In addition; Pandora is AWESOME!
 

Dawes

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Worst part about Sherlock Holmes is Holmes saying right before he does his karate "right kick to left knee, knee breaks, left fist to right elbow, elbow breaks.. summary.. 12 broken bones, 2 bruised ribs 3 broken ribs.. time to recovery 6 weeks.. mentally.. never" or something along that line.. thankfully it only happens once and its really for a non plot related boxing match.

I agree with this, too. :) I loved it when the movie would get broken down into these deductive moments. I think they were going for trying to express that that split-second deduction was how Holmes worked, and in the end, the whole movie comes together piece-by-piece like that second-long moment in the boxing match, or at the beginning, but I wish it had been done more visibly!

When he breaks down the fights, I got envious. I thought to myself, "I wanted to write that." I wanted to have been the first one to think of it like that. :D I love it when a movie or a book makes me wish I'd done it first.
 

Olivia

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Have not seen it yet! though the effects look awesome and i cannot wait for the battle angel movie he's also directing.
 

Izzy

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Comparing agenda-film with agenda-film is outrageous? Especially when indicating that the agenda got in the way of enjoying the movie? ALL CAPS HERE!

I think it's a lazy comparison. Also, because again...there was nothing in Avatar that was about the characters or the plot. Message films tend to be weak on both. The first 30 minutes were PURE character development in a way that message films like Avatar, Fern Gully, Dancing with the Wolves, etc. are not.

All message films aren't born equal. And don't use the word 'agenda' - all films have agendas.
 

Fire2box

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All message films aren't born equal. And don't use the word 'agenda' - all films have agendas.

that might be true to some extent, but not all agenda's are so clear and blunt.. not to mention trying to dictate people's lives.

Like when I saw Happy Feet on a field trip.. the overall message at the end of the film is for humans to stop eating fish. Think I stopped eating fish.. not at all. of course I only really like cod and shrimp.. that's about it. But really, its sooooooooooo much fun having a fictional movie criticize your simple and seemingly inconsequential actions like say liking to eat fish while you sit there and paid god only knows how much to see it.

The only movie its ever been fine in I think is Al Gores movie inconvenient truth, since hell that's what you expect. But Happy Feet and Wall-e were both just idiotic propoganda dressed up as children's movie, just like this is a anti war/conflict movie dressed up as a great special effects movie..

Which is maybe why everyone seems to think the plot sucked and only the special effects were only good. That said.. Terminator 2 is and most liekly will always be James Cameron's best work.
 

LunaCat

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I have since heard this description pretty much word for word after giving it to my grandmother when she asked what was the movie like...

Well... it was like... Dances with Wolves... in space... minus an hour... with CG... that acts better than Kevin Costner.

It was enjoyable. Was it great storywise? No, definitely not. But, it was at least very, very pretty. I didn't like the whole 3D thing, but I can't see 3D stuff very well due to an issue with one of my eyes not really seeing anything. But seeing it on a huge screen is pretty awesome. I'll probably get it in some form of digital format in HD when I can.

I think my favorite movie right now is Let The Right One In. I don't know why, but I adore that movie.
 

WoodlandWanderer

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First off everyone has a right to their own opinion, I'm going to disagree with some points made here, you can disagree with mine, as long as it all stays constructive.

I personally thought it was a very good film, yes it was long, largely predictable and with a few plot holes but overall I enjoyed it. You can analyse a film as much as you like, but you can't rate a film good or bad on technical analysis alone. At the end of the day you enjoy it or you don't, sometimes you don't know why it was so good but you still feel it was.

Dawes, I think you are perhaps looking a bit too deep into the film, all films have mistakes or things that don't quite make sense, but if you pick everything apart you wonder what the point of going to see it at all anyway. Any enjoyment you may have had has been removed by looking into it too much.
Also I'm going to give my view on the points you made.

1) The Binding. Okay, conceptually, I loved the idea of binding. I liked the fact that the Na'vi could connect themselves to other creatures through this neural conduit and communicate. But if we look at how the connection happens, there is no specific dominant party in the connection, and it appears to function mutually. Yet, what explains that the Na'vi have control over their "horses" and that the animals don't have control over the Na'vi? If the Na'vi can say, "Go forward and bank left," why couldn't the animal say, "Go fuck yourself, I want to run towards this water instead, and you'll do nothing but like it!" There was no hierarchy. If there was a simple line cutting out my disbelief ("Oh, Na'vi are far more mentally fortified, so we can make commands that the animals can't deny"), then I'd have not had a problem with this.

2) The Omitacaya (is that how it's spelled?) go back and forth on whether or not they know about Avatars or whether they don't. The female lead knows at the beginning what Jake Sully is, and then the tribe knows. Then, later on, after they teach him their ways, they suddenly seem surprised that they should have never trusted him, because he's a "demon"? This is the most bi-polar group of natives I'd ever met. Not to mention that if they have the ability to transfer a human to a Na'vi body in a spiritual sense, why the hell wouldn't they say, "Okay, I tell you what -- you want to be one of us? Instead of learning our ways and us just trusting you on a whim, how about you give up your previous life, we grab your real body, put you in the Avatar for permanent, and see if you really do want to learn about us! Make the ultimate sacrifice! Be one of us that we truly can trust!"

3) Arrows. Let's talk about arrows. Halfway through the movie, Big Bad Sergeant Shitfest is drinking his coffee in his helicopter and arrows are flying at the thing and bouncing off. Yet, later on in the movie during the last fight, Na'vi arrows can break through this fortified futuristic glass without a problem! Convenient. I hate it when a movie just completely denies its previously established conventions.

1) I too thought it was a neat idea, but I do see your point about how a connection such as that only works one way. However, you say you would be satisfied if there was a line telling you why it was. I'm going to assume to most people either assumed there was something like you said, or just didn't think anything of it. If you can see how it could work does it have to be explicitly stated in the film? I can see why you want it to be, but if they did that every time there was something that was not fully explained, I think it would start to become irritating to many people and make the film worse.

2) I don't quite understand your problem here, just because the na'vi know he's a human avatar, why does it mean they should hold the view that none of the humans can ever possible be good. When accepting an outsider you should exercise caution, but as I saw it, he did what they wanted and gained their trust. Is it unreasonable for them to see and trust him, then feel betrayed when he's attacked? They may not have acted the most sensibly, but bi-polar is not the right word to use.
As for the second point you make, then they wouldn't have had any form of negotiation then would they.

3) The one about arrows does make sense if you think about it, I figured that one out for myself, and it's in the link below if you don't get it.

Also, link to the IMDB list of goof in Avatar: Avatar (2009) - Goofs
It's worth mentioning that things like the arrows piercing the windshields is listed as "incorrectly regarded as goofs". Avatar has other mistakes; considering that it involved creating an entirely new planet, perfection is a bit unreasonable as an expectation. Still, the list of goofs is interesting.

That list is not exactly entirely true, you could probably discount at least 30% of those probably more, also the one about the arrows is identified as both a 'continuity error' then later 'incorrectly regarded as goofs', talk about contradiction.

Finally, it may have it's flaws, but if there not something to it, why has it earned so much? You may not have thought it yourself but evidently the majority have decided it was worth it.
 

LunaCat

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Finally, it may have it's flaws, but if there not something to it, why has it earned so much? You may not have thought it yourself but evidently the majority have decided it was worth it.
Why did Twilight earn so much?

I saw nothing "worthy" in that movie at all. I guess it depends on your metrics...
 

WoodlandWanderer

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Why did Twilight earn so much?

I saw nothing "worthy" in that movie at all. I guess it depends on your metrics...

But if you like at the people who went, twilight has a rather narrow demographic, mainly focused at teenagers. Where avatar was apparently (and it seems right) aimed at as wide a range of people as possible.

Also if you look here List of highest-grossing films - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia the highest twilight one has earned about half of what Avatar's got. I see you're point about some films earning way more that you think they should, but it's all personal preference. If Avatar's earned that much, then there's evidently something people are liking about it.
 

LunaCat

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But if you like at the people who went, twilight has a rather narrow demographic, mainly focused at teenagers. Where avatar was apparently (and it seems right) aimed at as wide a range of people as possible.

Also if you look here List of highest-grossing films - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia the highest twilight one has earned about half of what Avatar's got. I see you're point about some films earning way more that you think they should, but it's all personal preference. If Avatar's earned that much, then there's evidently something people are liking about it.
I don't know many teen females, but I do know plenty of adult females... and a great number of them liked Twilight, so not sure about the teen slant of the focus.

But, yes, that was my point. Well... more my point was "it depends on your metrics" :) I mean, I just posted that I thought the story was mostly rehash of movies I've already seen and it wasn't a more enlightening rehash... and it certainly wasn't better written. I mean, it was a 3hr movie, and I still thought the whole relationship issue was just tossed out there. I mean, sure, we all knew it was coming... but we knew it the instant they met... because it was cliche'.

But, I'm still going to own the movie in some form or fashion. I think more people like the visual aspects of the movie than anything else, or rather, if they don't, I just don't understand people that well I guess.
 

Dawes

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Wanderer,

I believe a whole new world or universe, when created in a fictional sense, needs to be as explained and as free of interpretation in its facts as possible. Had the Binding connected the Na'vi only to their horses, I would have understood, but I had a massive problem with the idea that the most horrifying beast of their world could be tamed by a mere mental command. That tosses off this whole idea of world-connected balance that Cameron seems to suggest throughout Pandora. It's uneven. It requires more fortitude as an acceptable idea to me.

Finally, it may have it's flaws, but if there not something to it, why has it earned so much? You may not have thought it yourself but evidently the majority have decided it was worth it.

I'm not saying there's not something to it, I'm just saying that opinion drummed it down to being a piece of shit with no lasting merit. It was flat all the way around -- you sell flat soda and advertise it as the biggest craze, everybody's going to try to drink it at least once to see if they like it, but there'll still be people who go, "Ew, that flat soda brand sucks assholes." Avatar was flat soda to me.
 

Rufuzz

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saw it on Friday night, i give it an 11/10 easily the best movie i've ever seen, i'm going to see it again next week, and again with my dad the week after. The screens at Reading Cinema really make a difference. Biggest indoor screen in the southern hemisphere. OH YEAH!!
 
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Loopygone

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I really enjoyed it, I didn't over analysis it, realised it was just a big blockbuster, turned my brain off and munched pop corn. So its not deep, or the characters aren't fleshed out, there are other directors who do a far better job at that. Besides those mechs rocked.

Seriously, with all this CGI technology why has no one made a good mech film yet? Like mechwarrior....
 

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Great movie, found it funny though...150 years from now, and we still haven't learned that some things are sacred? Tsk. Tsk. Tsk.

9.5/10 Overall(Only about 5 movies I've liked more)
 
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But if you like at the people who went, twilight has a rather narrow demographic, mainly focused at teenagers. Where avatar was apparently (and it seems right) aimed at as wide a range of people as possible.

Hey! I went to see Twilight. Went to see New Moon as well. There's a story there, but I enjoyed the second much more than the first, because at that point I knew that the writer of the books was Mormon so I wasn't as upset by the whole salvation-through-a-husband-even-if-the-girl-is-16 theme.

Also, when Jacob took off his shirt, there were about 20 teenage girls who gasped ... and this was punctuated with my own semi-involuntary awwww, YEAH! :smile1:
 
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