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It's a sad day to be a car guy.

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NEJay

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After 83 years, Pontiac is dead.

Due to the compromising situation GM is in because of the current economic situation, decades of beancounter mismanagement, and the stranglehold of our own bureaucratic nutjob, Barack Obama, Pontiac will be gone within a year.

In case you didn't know it, GM is now partially owned by the US government. Their (Obama's) first action was to force the resignation of former CEO Rick Wagoner... The guy, that in his short 8 year stint at GM, changed the company from making tin-can Cavaliers and minivans that look like Dustbusters to a company that makes cars like the new Malubu, Pontiac G8, new Chevy/GMC pickups, the Camaro, Corvette, the Volt... And so on. Because of him, GM started making cars people actually wanted to buy.

Now they're splitting GM at the seams. As of today, Saturn, Hummer, Saab, and most saddening... Pontiac... Are dead.

But... Buick lives on. The car company that hasn't inspired anyone under 70 years old in the last 30 years. Same goes for GMC, the purveyor of all-things-Chevy, but with a different grille. I just don't understand it.

I can see losing all the others, but Pontiac is a gigantic piece of American history. It could've lived on to be so much more, but the heavy hand of our current Socialist regime has pushed them out the door.

At the same time, there are current talks of Obama creating subsidies to give Chinese automakers (you know, the ones that steal intellectual property from other carmakers, and produce cars that are guaranteed to kill their occupants in anything more than a fender bender) a foothold in the American market. Absolutely fucking sickening. :wallbash:

83 years, come and gone... RIP Pontiac. I'll miss you.

















 

PostTenebrasLux

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Excellent pics, NEjay. Although I'm not a car guy, your post did help me realize the gravity of this turn of events. I drive one of those fine cars (not from the pictures, to be precise). I'd never realized the aesthetic design elements all Pontiacs seem to share.

I can't say that I'm sorry to see the Hummer go, but now I suppose I am a bit disappointed in the demise of my car's species. I think I should try to take better care of her--been a great car.
 

codered

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Yeah...I almost cried when i first heard about this... i was always hoping for them to bring back a new trans am, but that's sadly not possible...so all i have to say is R.I.P. Pontiac.....I will miss you...
 

Takashi

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Very nice cars; and your right they are a part of American history it's a shame to see them go.
 

dogboy

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I'm like you, NEjay. I don't understand why they would discontinue the Pontiac. The first car that I built for the track was a 67 Pontiac LeMans convertible. I sure wish I had that car today. Supposedly Pontiac was only contributing 10 percent to their total sales. Somehow I find that hard to believe. The GMC line seems stupid and redundant to me. This is what happens when politicians think they know more about cars than the people who build them, and those who buy them. They did the same thing to education.
 

Bryce

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Not that I liked Pontiac, but I have to agree with your statement here. If they do something like that with Honda, I'll kill myself :(

our own bureaucratic nutjob, Barack Obama, Pontiac will be gone within a year.
Finally someone who agrees Obama is indeed a nutjob. Go throw him in a mental prison please and get Bush back in here!
 
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I have to be honest, I have always thought that it was silly for GM and the others to have so many "Brands." For a long period of time the only difference between a Chevy, Pontiac, and Buick sedan was the interior and extras. It was actually so bad that at one point my dad bought a used Chevy, it needed a new front bench seat. We went to junk yard and pulled a power bench seat out of a Caddy of the same year. I joked about the bolt holes lining up, my dad didn't think it likely. Not only did they line up, but there was even a power line in the Chevy that plugged right into the seat power line.

I think that they, and Ford and Chrysler should get rid of all the brands, just sell GM, Ford and Chrysler cars. That way they can keep the iconic names, Trans Am, Firebird, Corvette, Mustang, etc. and not worry what "Brand" it is.
 

NEJay

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Supposedly Pontiac was only contributing 10 percent to their total sales.
Wagoner and Lutz's vision was to meld Pontiac into a Scion-like brand, but with actual performance cars. They tried to push for a sub-$15k RWD turbocharged car and roadster, a quick hatchback/wagon, the G8 and G8 ST (car based pickup), and the Solstice.

In the end the beancounters won out and they got a rebadged Korean Chevy Aveo (which is outclassed by anything short of a donkey), a warmed over G6 rental car, a Cobalt with a different grille, and what could've been an excellent roadster (the Solstice) if they didn't take it out of the oven too early. The only car they succeded getting was the G8.

Shame... I'd kill for a 260hp $14k econocoupe, and I think a lot of others would've too.

get Bush back in here!
Uh, no.
 

Ace

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I just heard about this. This has got to be the dumbest decision GM could make. IT'S PONTIAC for goodness sakes. GMC is a completely useless division, cut them, there is no point in making two models of chevy trucks. Hummer's, I mean, come on, sell the rights to the H1 to the military for their things and get rid of the little ones. Saab's, well, they can be their own company if they want. Saturn was great when they were "a different kind of company, a different kind of car" - I believe that was their slogan back in the day. Back then, they made a reliable, and attractive small car to compete with the civic and corolla, and it competed well. They don't do that anymore.

Pontiac though, that brought youthful spenders into GM's showrooms. They had sport's sedans to compete with things like the Maxima. Nobody who wants to buy a Nissan Maxima is also considering a Buick Lucerne, not happening. They would consider a Grand Prix, or a Bonneville.

I am a Pontiac owner, so that makes me sad. I guess that makes my car a classic?

Anyway, I'll end this rant with a pic of my Pontiac. May the Chief rest in peace.



(it's actually not mine, but it looks a lot like it)
 

NEJay

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I have to be honest, I have always thought that it was silly for GM and the others to have so many "Brands." For a long period of time the only difference between a Chevy, Pontiac, and Buick sedan was the interior and extras. It was actually so bad that at one point my dad bought a used Chevy, it needed a new front bench seat. We went to junk yard and pulled a power bench seat out of a Caddy of the same year. I joked about the bolt holes lining up, my dad didn't think it likely. Not only did they line up, but there was even a power line in the Chevy that plugged right into the seat power line.
Platform sharing is a way of life in automobiledom nowadays. I've got a jetta front on my GTI, and quite a few Audi parts as well. GM just took it too far.

The idea of just having one marque is intriguing, but it wouldn't work. You can't sell a $11k Chevrolet Aveo next to a $100k Chevrolet XLR. People are shallow by nature, and for many that badge means a lot. In addition, brand identity can be a relation to a person's personality, and car buying can be an emotional purchase for lots.

I know GM is WAY too bloated, but if they weren't shoved into this decision by the federal government, they could've put a lot more thought into it. If I had my way...

Hummer and Buick (except for the latter in China, Buick has a HUGE presence there) would be gone. Saab would be given back to the Swedes (they wouldn't pay for it), and GMC would be for commercial vehicle sales only. Saturn would sell the upcoming Volt, and all their other cars would be hybrids or electrics. In addition, Saturn would sell a small diesel-electric hybrid capable of 60+ MPG. Chevy would sell the bread-and-butter cars (save for the Corvette), and consumer pickups. Pontiac would be the "excitement" division it should've been, and Cadillac would stay put where it is.

This isn't going to happen, unfortunately.

May the Chief rest in peace.
Indeed. :(
 

Darkfinn

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After 83 years, Pontiac is dead.

Due to the compromising situation GM is in because of the current economic situation, decades of beancounter mismanagement, and the stranglehold of our own bureaucratic nutjob, Barack Obama, Pontiac will be gone within a year.
Sir. I take offense to this statement.

If it weren't for greedy assholes like Wagoner and Lutz and the whole crew at the UAW GM would be in a much better position.

I hold up Ford Motor Company as a shining example of a domestic auto manufacturer that is doing just fine in these harsh times. Ford saw bad times coming... and they wisened up by making better more efficient vehicles and by selling off brands they did not need (Jaguar and Land Rover) to raise much needed capital to cover them during a down market.

GM has noone but themselves to blame for the hole they found themselves in. If they didn't want to be government owned and government managed then they shouldn't have taken government money in the first place.

May I point out that Ford has not taken one dime of "bailout" money.
 
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Ace, the military Hummer is a product of AM General. AM General LLC was the military division of AMC/Jeep and stayed independent when AMC was bought. GM licensed the Hummer to sell the civilian versions of the Hummer along with ownership of the name Hummer.


NEJay, people have no problem buying a Corvette from the same place that is selling an Aveo. Besides dealerships are so broad, you don't find a Chevy dealership, you find Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, Subaru, Toyota, Saab, VW,... dealerships.

People want to buy a Corvette, Trans Am, GTO, Firebird, Silverado, or whatever. They aren't really going to care if it doesn't say Chevy, Pontiac, or whatever on it, as long as it looks right and performs right. The same things go for Ford and Chrysler models.
 

Fire2box

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The white one is my dad's. I am the one behind the camera, the funny thing is I kept thinking one of the two gay guys (I think they are gay anyway) could be a member from here for no other reasons then them being from the bay area and most likely being gay. But I digress, look at all those fracking good looking cars!

 

NEJay

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I hold up Ford Motor Company as a shining example of a domestic auto manufacturer that is doing just fine in these harsh times. Ford saw bad times coming... and they wisened up by making better more efficient vehicles and by selling off brands they did not need (Jaguar and Land Rover) to raise much needed capital to cover them during a down market.
Ford got lucky... Nothing more.

Ford borrowed 25 billion back in 2006 because they were in even more dire straits than GM and Chrysler are now. A short while later, GM (in a better place financially until this point) went knocking on the doors of those same banks. They were told "Sorry, we blew our money and we can't give you a loan that we would've been glad to make 6 months ago because of stupid financial decisions we made/other bad circumstances, why don't you try asking the government for money like we're going to?" Compound this with the current economic situation, and GM arrives at the situation it is in currently.

Ford didn't do a single thing better than GM, unless you consider "almost going belly-up sooner" a good thing. ;)

Also, regarding the sale of Jaguar and L/R... They were Ford's only profitable marques. The only reason they were sold is because they were the only brands they could get more than mere pennies for, and they needed the cash.

If they didn't want to be government owned and government managed then they shouldn't have taken government money in the first place.
They didn't have much of a choice. The government and the UAW wouldn't allow them to restructure under bankruptcy protection, so it was either take the money, or fold.

May I point out that Ford has not taken one dime of "bailout" money.
Yet. Most industry analysts, including Barclay's Brian Johnson have stated that they will need the money by the end of the year to stay afloat. It was a great PR move on Ford's part to let GM and Chrysler share the bailout limelight before they proceed to dip their hands in.

NEJay, people have no problem buying a Corvette from the same place that is selling an Aveo. Besides dealerships are so broad, you don't find a Chevy dealership, you find Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, Subaru, Toyota, Saab, VW,... dealerships.
And yet, at the same time there are enough GMC buyers that say "I would never consider buying a lowly Chevy" that GM and the federal government decided that GMC was viable enough to keep around. The Corvette is kind of a unique example in this instance, but the fact that it's a Chevy does still, to this day, suffer from the association of mullets and hairy chests in many minds(regardless of the fact that it's on par with cars three times it's price in terms of performance). Many think it's junk, and only fast in a straight line, because it's a Chevy.

I'm with you, but market research shows that a large portion of car buyers buy the cars they do because of the badge on the hood. It's been that way forever.
 
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ZombifiedKitty

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Isn't it illegal and maybe unconstitutional for our Government to have their hands in so deep with a private company? I mean last I checked it was illegal to interfere with private enterprise. Personally I don't care so much about the extra brands so long as they continue making good cars, I thought the 05 GTO was a great car at a good price. The Hummers I hated except for the REAL Hummer. Besides lets not forget what industries saved us back in WW2, all of our big industry switched over and re-tooled to making military vehicles "overnight" if you will. It would scare most people to know what our industries are like today, between welders and machinists the numbers are falling every year because nobody feels like getting their hands dirty. If the **** ever hits the fan a third time I don't think our big iron will be able to bale us out.
 

mm3

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What the hell happened to Oldsmobile anyway?
 

Lowie

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What the hell happened to Oldsmobile anyway?
It died back on April 29, 2004.

Also, there may just be some hope for Pontiac afterall!

GM Media Online

I believe killing Pontiac is one of the worst things GM has done (besides making Hummer.) I mean, why not kill Buick? Buick's are gutless, and nobody really buys them anymore. Plus they look like crap in my opinion.

I was hoping that we'd see the Solstice as a Chevy, or something else but thats been denied. I still hope that the G8 GXP will come back as an Impala SS or even a Camaro sedan.. It's too good of a car to stop making.

Just my :twocents:
 
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