Is this normal sibling affection?

Kenopsia

Formerly RainbowConnection
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I really just need an outsider's view on this whole thing. Maybe I'm just obsessing again. I don't know. I need help. I apologize for the length, but I do appreciate those who read it and provide your honest thoughts. Regardless, I promise to make this my last post today.

My younger brother and I have cuddled each other before in the recent past (when I was 20 and he was 17). It was a couple times, maybe a few. It would last a good while. We were mostly just hugging or holding each other close while laying in bed. I'd stroke his hair, kiss his forehead, we'd chat; it was platonic affection stuff. I remember thinking that I liked being an older brother.

But maybe my penis moved a bit or warmed up -- I mean, I assume if it did, it was either intrusive, because I'm not used to physical touch, or it was merely reacting to the physical-emotional feelings without necessarily denoting anything sexual... If that even makes a lick of sense. I think I remember reading that men's penises sometimes react to mere emotional feelings -- erections or other crotch reactions aren't always sexual. I don't know the extent of the truth of this, though.





I mean, sometimes he does his weird inappropriate shit and I eventually have to tell him to knock it off if he stays persistent with it. An example would be when he tries to "kiss" me in a teasing fashion. But that still might just be more of him messing around like a sibling would.

But he sometimes does his weird inappropriate things and I have to tell him to knock it off or go back to our boundaries. Just as an example, maybe he was pretending to try to grab my balls or something at some point? Idk, but that's a little closer in line with what I mean, anyway, even if that example isn't accurate. I don't know, did I cause him to do those weird things? I'm sure I told him to knock it off if it wasn't appropriate, anyway. We teased each other, of course, just sometimes he'd tease like that, outside of the appropriate boundaries, and he'd be persistent enough with it for me to have to tell him to cut it out. I'm sorry to be vague, I just don't remember what they were right now.

But I don't know. I hope to God that I didn't do anything to encourage that or elicit that from him. What if us merely cuddling somehow gave him weird ideas, even indirectly... eugh!! Please no, I really just thought it was platonic affection, even if it was more physical affection than I was used to and therefore was confused about it.

What if I did my own weird shit, too? I can easily imaging playing some stupid "footsie" esc thing, where I'm trying to stick my foot somewhere warm -- say under his leg on the bed -- and being somewhat persistent about it, even though he doesn't want it there because it's uncomfortable to him. I... I don't know.





We also likely intertwined ourselves in strange body positions around each other. My leg could have been somewhere caught in between his legs, and I definitely remember draping my leg over his torso. We stuck our appendages into spots on each other's body, either for warmth or to mess with each other. And we probably teased each other by bopping our noses and doing other dumb shit... idk

We were definitely in close proximity, of course. I don't think our body positions were super abnormal, though, but my memory is terrible. And we might've stayed like that for a good long while, a half hour, maybe an hour (I don't know specifics except that it was a while the couple or few times we did it). We did this at least a couple times, maybe a few. It very likely took place sometime following my brother getting out of the hospital again, though I'm not sure, it could have been before.





Maybe it's all normal and I'm just really not used to physical affection. And overthinking everything.

I guess I just got worried because back then, in the moment, I was explicitly worried if what we were doing was okay or not and if my motivations were appropriate. But I also get worried about everything I do. Regardless, I pushed it aside because I liked the feeling of physical affection and warmth. I also probably thought I was being ridiculous with my worries.

My fear that I intentionally put myself in a weird position with him, or that I was somehow sexually motivated to do things like drape my leg over his, poke my foot through his legs, tease him, stroke his hair, and so on... I remember wondering if my awkward positions and behaviors were okay or not, and so they made me feel uncomfortable while I was doing them; but I also wanted to make the positions I was making and be where I was and do what I was doing, so I wrote the discomfort off as intrusive thinking. Idk. Why did I want to do those positions? Maybe to stretch, or mess with him, or embrace him in another creative way, or just because I could.

Regardless, the physical affection felt good to me. I don't think I tried to think too hard in the moment because it felt good and, ultimately, correct or wrong, it probably felt right in the moment. He was comfortable. I liked comforting him and I liked the physical warmth. We had a safe and warm feeling for a little bit. I think that's what it boiled down to. I hope so.

God, I hope nothing actually bad occured. I feel so scared I did something bad while we were embracing and laying down together, and yet I can remember nothing more than I've said at the moment. Perhaps my brain is simply trying to warp this memory into something sinister when it never was. Idk.
 
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RainbowConnection said:
I really just need an outsider's view on this whole thing. Maybe I'm just obsessing again. I don't know. I need help. I apologize for the length, but I do appreciate those who read it and provide your honest thoughts. Regardless, I promise to make this my last post today.

My younger brother and I have cuddled each other before in the recent past (when I was 20 and he was 17). It was a couple times, maybe a few. It would last a good while. We were mostly just hugging or holding each other close while laying in bed. I'd stroke his hair, kiss his forehead, we'd chat; it was platonic affection stuff. I remember thinking that I liked being an older brother.

But maybe my penis moved a bit or warmed up -- I mean, I assume if it did, it was either intrusive, because I'm not used to physical touch, or it was merely reacting to the physical-emotional feelings without necessarily denoting anything sexual... If that even makes a lick of sense. I think I remember reading that men's penises sometimes react to mere emotional feelings -- erections or other crotch reactions aren't always sexual. I don't know the extent of the truth of this, though.





I mean, sometimes he does his weird inappropriate shit and I eventually have to tell him to knock it off if he stays persistent with it. An example would be when he tries to "kiss" me in a teasing fashion. But that still might just be more of him messing around like a sibling would.

But he sometimes does his weird inappropriate things and I have to tell him to knock it off or go back to our boundaries. Just as an example, maybe he was pretending to try to grab my balls or something at some point? Idk, but that's a little closer in line with what I mean, anyway, even if that example isn't accurate. I don't know, did I cause him to do those weird things? I'm sure I told him to knock it off if it wasn't appropriate, anyway. We teased each other, of course, just sometimes he'd tease like that, outside of the appropriate boundaries, and he'd be persistent enough with it for me to have to tell him to cut it out. I'm sorry to be vague, I just don't remember what they were right now.

But I don't know. I hope to God that I didn't do anything to encourage that or elicit that from him. What if us merely cuddling somehow gave him weird ideas, even indirectly... eugh!! Please no, I really just thought it was platonic affection, even if it was more physical affection than I was used to and therefore was confused about it.

What if I did my own weird shit, too? I can easily imaging playing some stupid "footsie" esc thing, where I'm trying to stick my foot somewhere warm -- say under his leg on the bed -- and being somewhat persistent about it, even though he doesn't want it there because it's uncomfortable to him. I... I don't know.





We also likely intertwined ourselves in strange body positions around each other. My leg could have been somewhere caught in between his legs, and I definitely remember draping my leg over his torso. We stuck our appendages into spots on each other's body, either for warmth or to mess with each other. And we probably teased each other by bopping our noses and doing other dumb shit... idk

We were definitely in close proximity, of course. I don't think our body positions were super abnormal, though, but my memory is terrible. And we might've stayed like that for a good long while, a half hour, maybe an hour (I don't know specifics except that it was a while the couple or few times we did it). We did this at least a couple times, maybe a few. It very likely took place sometime following my brother getting out of the hospital again, though I'm not sure, it could have been before.





Maybe it's all normal and I'm just really not used to physical affection. And overthinking everything.

I guess I just got worried because back then, in the moment, I was explicitly worried if what we were doing was okay or not and if my motivations were appropriate. But I also get worried about everything I do. Regardless, I pushed it aside because I liked the feeling of physical affection and warmth. I also probably thought I was being ridiculous with my worries.

My fear that I intentionally put myself in a weird position with him, or that I was somehow sexually motivated to do things like drape my leg over his, poke my foot through his legs, tease him, stroke his hair, and so on... I remember wondering if my awkward positions and behaviors were okay or not, and so they made me feel uncomfortable while I was doing them; but I also wanted to make the positions I was making and be where I was and do what I was doing, so I wrote the discomfort off as intrusive thinking. Idk. Why did I want to do those positions? Maybe to stretch, or mess with him, or embrace him in another creative way, or just because I could.

Regardless, the physical affection felt good to me. I don't think I tried to think too hard in the moment because it felt good and, ultimately, correct or wrong, it probably felt right in the moment. He was comfortable. I liked comforting him and I liked the physical warmth. We had a safe and warm feeling for a little bit. I think that's what it boiled down to. I hope so.

God, I hope nothing actually bad occured. I feel so scared I did something bad while we were embracing and laying down together, and yet I can remember nothing more than I've said at the moment. Perhaps my brain is simply trying to warp this memory into something sinister when it never was. Idk.
Most brothers don't lay in bed together......so it seems like something is off here. Also, your brother is a minor at 17, so this is wrong on many levels. Most brothers hug and that is the extent of physical contact. Wrapping limbs around each other is also not normal.
 
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I dunno, my little sister and I were close and enjoyed physicality, and sometimes the body reacts to just having another body around.

I think we’ve got some weird hangups in America about any type of physical intimacy being inherently sexual.

I don’t see anything wrong with it (although I do see something wrong with them continually doing things you told them not to… that’s not cool!)
 
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It sounds like there was sexual infancy between you two and it sounds like you’re having problems coming to terms with that.

Is it wrong? I think so. You were 3 years older than him while you two were being intimate. He was 15 and you were 18, he was 12 and you were 15. Etc. (I’m assuming this evolved as you two were growing up together, that it didn’t just happen when he was 17). Age aside, you two are siblings and imho, this type of infancy should be off limits.

I don’t think this is a healthy type of relationship to have with your sibling.

I’m not judging you. You asked, so I’m giving you my honest opinion.
 
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Yeah it is weird, and it feels like you’ve missed some details out, so you can get the clarification you need thst it’s not weird or strange. You mention having boundaries with your brother thst he crosses at times, but it seems you’ve both crossed the standard boundaries of brotherly love.
For this scenario I’ll use my sister as an example but if we ever had to share a bed, our legs wound t inter twind or get into weird positions we would probably have a single goodnight cuddle and roll over backs fscing each other and go to sleep. Kissing in a teasing fashion? We kiss each others cheek as we say goodbye that’s all.
The penis twitch I can’t really talk about that 😂 but I do know I’ve never had a vagina twitch whilst cuddling my sister, it could be yours right though that a man’s penis does twitch for emotional stuff I honestly wouldn’t no.
Honestly you probably need to set more boundaries between you both and both of you need to stick to them.
 
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Oh god no, please no, I just... I thought we were just embracing each other for a minute, like in an affectionate way, I just... Oh god what the fuck, I fucked up, I don't know what to do. I was just comforting him I thought while being stupid, I didn't think... I didn't... What do I do? What do I do now? I finally know now that I fucked up, I actually did something fucked up, so fucked up, why the fuck would this happen? I knew I shouldn't ever be near people. I don't know how to love anyone properly.

I thought everything else was just dumb horsing around, it's not like we actually did anything... No, no, I don't know what to do right now. I must have fucked up. This was just a couple times or so last year that we laid down for a few minutes and rested like this, it was probably after he got out of the hospital again, though I don't know. We've always been close, but... Oh god, I'm a fucking pervert after all. I'm a monster. I've done a terrible evil and I don't know what to do. What the fuck is wrong with me? What have I done?? I didn't even see it, I thought I was being ridiculous again with my intrusive thoughts, I just enjoyed the emotional and physical closeness with someone else... I deserve to fucking die. I'm so sorry, I thought I was just hugging and horsing with him. But I've done something weird and evil. No!! Oh god, oh god...
 
You guys think it was sexual intimacy? It was? That element was really there, even just implicitly? I get so worried everything I do is for the wrong motivation, or the wrong idea... I remembered worrying about that back then, in the moment. Is this weird? Is it sexual in anyway? Maybe I felt it. Maybe I felt sexual stimulation in the moment. But I ignored it or pushed it aside because I felt like I must be being silly. Because the emotional and physical closeness felt good. Because I'm always overly worried about this shit. and I thought I was just being close to my brother. But maybe I'm a fucking creep. I'm a monster. I don't know what to do now. I don't.
 
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I've thought about having sexual engagement with my brother. I mean, probably more like what that would feel like. But those are just intrusive thoughts, right? Perhaps I am just lonely, and in my confusion, I have these kinds of inappropriate, distressing thoughts. These thoughts distress me, I absolutely fucking despise them, just to be clear. It's not something I ever aim or want to do. I am not close with much anyone, but I know and love my brother. So maybe it's just my brain being a dick. I hope so.

But oh god, what if my embracing him was some kind of fucked up manifestation of these thoughts? What if they weren't just intrusive thoughts, and I was subconsciously acting on them (or I acted on them through self-imposed ignorance) by allowing ourselves to cuddle for a few minutes? I don't know anymore, I don't trust myself, I don't know what to do. I don't know. I'm a monster after all and I cannot be near anyone ever again. No, god... God no...
 
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God someone please help me, or tell me what to do now. I talk to my therapist this afternoon. Maybe he can help clarify to me what the fuck I've done. But I don't know anymore. You are all saying I've done a terrible evil. I've done something terrible. Very terrible. Oh god...
 
I've told the entire situation to my mother, and she doesn't see anything in it, but I don't know, maybe my explanations are bad and I haven't conveyed it right. I don't know how much I'm warping because of my obsessions. But it could be all true. The actual events are true, in any case. I'm a monster. I've done something unforgivable. I fucked up showing proper affection to the people I care about. I don't know what to do anymore. I feel physically sick. I'm so sorry. I'm so lost right now.
 
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Lets chill out just a bit on this. You'll be okay and he'll be okay too. I think it's important to recognize that this was not a healthy or normal sibling interaction and to put an end to it. If he brings it up or jokes around in a flirting way, I think it's important to prepare ahead of time to have a talk with him about what happened and that it should not have happened and should never happen again. You two both need to get over this and get back to having a normal sibling relationship.
 
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This is not some kind of emergency that needs to be acted on immediately. What I would plan for if I were you is what you'll say to your brother when the right time to have that talk presents itself.
 
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LePew said:
Lets chill out just a bit on this. You'll be okay and he'll be okay too. I think it's important to recognize that this was not a healthy or normal sibling interaction and to put an end to it. If he brings it up or jokes around in a flirting way, I think it's important to prepare ahead of time to have a talk with him about what happened and that it should not have happened and should never happen again. You two both need to get over this and get back to having a normal sibling relationship.
I swear to God, regardless of whether I was subconsciously motivated in an inappropriate way, was ignorant to my darker, more covert desires, or my thoughts were all simply intrusive -- I thought I was just comforting my brother. For the most part, he lay on my chest, I stroked his hair and kissed his forehead, and we chatted. I really thought I was just being a caring big brother, and that any of my other thoughts or symptoms were intrusive (since my brain does this often). The other stuff I thought was just sibling bullying shit. But I don't know. I really don't.

We both felt okay afterward, refreshed (I think, I can't remember) and it didn't appear to change our relationship. Most of the time, when he was still at home, we didn't talk much to each other, so moments like these stand out to me. But I just... eugh please god, please tell me there was nothing truly abnormally vile, even if it was weird. I'm just not going to go near anyone ever again. I can't trust myself anymore. What dark things lie beneath my brain? I don't know. I don't want to know. I pray I didn't harm him, one way or another. I pray I wasn't being a creep.
 
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RainbowConnection said:
I'm a monster. I've done something unforgivable.
No you're not and no you didn't. Calm down, please.
Just make a plan on guiding your relationship with your brother back to a normal sibling relationship.
It's a good thing to have a close loving relationship with your sibling, just not in that kind of physical way.
Welcome to being human and doing awkward innaprorpate things. You'll fine, he'll be fine, life will go on just fine, I promise. Just recognize what's healthy and what's not and guide your relationships appropriately.
 
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LePew said:
This is not some kind of emergency that needs to be acted on immediately. What I would plan for if I were you is what you'll say to your brother when the right time to have that talk presents itself.
I don't know that I should bring it up to him. I don't think he perceived anything weird or off, as it didn't really seem to impact how we'd interact at all, and at most, he'd tell me I'm overreacting again and that it was nothing. He has a way better memory than I do. I also don't want to put any ideas in his head, he has enough of those. I don't know, though. Should I just talk to my therapist about it first? I feel so sick, I don't mean to be dramatic, I just feel it in my stomach.
 
RainbowConnection said:
I don't know that I should bring it up to him. I don't think he perceived anything weird or off, as it didn't really seem to impact how we'd interact at all, and at most, he'd tell me I'm overreacting again and that it was nothing. He has a way better memory than I do. I also don't want to put any ideas in his head, he has enough of those. I don't know, though.
Then don't bring it up to him. If you feel like he's throwing you weird vibes, you can either ignore them or talk to him about that time when.......... and tell him you're sorry you did that, it isn't cultivating the type of relationship you want with your brother.

RainbowConnection said:
Should I just talk to my therapist about it first? I feel so sick, I don't mean to be dramatic, I just feel it in my stomach.
Honestly? I don't think you should, at least not today. Your thoughts will settle in time and so will your stomach.
 
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LePew said:
No you're not and no you didn't. Calm down, please.
Just make a plan on guiding your relationship with your brother back to a normal sibling relationship.
It's a good thing to have a close loving relationship with your sibling, just not in that kind of physical way.
Welcome to being human and doing awkward innaprorpate things. You'll fine, he'll be fine, life will go on just fine, I promise. Just recognize what's healthy and what's not and guide your relationships appropriately.
But he's also 17, a fricking minor, and if I did do something truly vile... I'll never forgive myself for harming my brother. I care about him more than myself. I tried so hard to help him survive during his mental crisis, and to think my dumbass loneliness had some dark motivation and I did something inappropriate, or worse, vile... Some sexually charged or stimulating thing... That's disgusting. I feel disgusting. I am. I want to crawl somewhere and never see anyone ever again. I'm so sorry.

How many more of my actions have dark motivations driving them? I don't want to know. I want to stop thinking. Idk right now.
 
Y’all are just being brothers and y’all have grew up together messing around. Don’t worry. Boys do silly things to each other.
 
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It's really not as bad as you're making it out to be RC. Just put a stop to it going forward.
 
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@GoodnitesLover8
Most brothers don't lay in bed together......so it seems like something is off here. Also, your brother is a minor at 17, so this is wrong on many levels. Most brothers hug and that is the extent of physical contact. Wrapping limbs around each other is also not normal.
claire123 said:
Yeah it is weird, and it feels like you’ve missed some details out, so you can get the clarification you need thst it’s not weird or strange. You mention having boundaries with your brother thst he crosses at times, but it seems you’ve both crossed the standard boundaries of brotherly love.
For this scenario I’ll use my sister as an example but if we ever had to share a bed, our legs wound t inter twind or get into weird positions we would probably have a single goodnight cuddle and roll over backs fscing each other and go to sleep. Kissing in a teasing fashion? We kiss each others cheek as we say goodbye that’s all.
The penis twitch I can’t really talk about that 😂 but I do know I’ve never had a vagina twitch whilst cuddling my sister, it could be yours right though that a man’s penis does twitch for emotional stuff I honestly wouldn’t no.
Honestly you probably need to set more boundaries between you both and both of you need to stick to them.
I swear that if I've left any details out, it is because I do not remember them. I do not ever want to be deceptive. I cannot do that. It wouldn't help me. I generally try to give the worst interpretation of events I can, because then I feel like, if I'm okay then, I must be okay everywhere else, too. I don't know if I'm merely being obsessive or not when I say the things I do. But now everyone is saying it truly is as bad as my thoughts are saying it is, and I feel like a monster.

I don't know how much my brain has warped. But I will try to clarify some details you mentioned.

I remember him laying next to me or with my head on my chest, for the most part. Majority of the time, he'd just rest on me and I'd stroke his hair and kiss the top of his head multiple times. I remember something like my leg being caught between his two, but he could've been bullying me by trapping my leg (it's possible I've confused this memory for a time we were horse playing, too). I remember probably trying to stick our appendages in odd places, maybe for body warmth or to screw with the other person... I'd probably do this, I'd put my foot behind his knee or something and see if he'd react. I'd also be seeking body heat. I also know I definitely put my leg over his torso at one point, maybe because this felt good as a stretching position. Kinda like laying over the top of each other, like a couple of dogs. But idk. I cannot remember how else we may have positioned ourselves past having parts of our body sandwiched between or on top of each other. He might've hugged my arm at some point. Again, my memory fails me. But maybe that gives some idea.

By "kissing" in a teasing fashion, I meant he'd try to bully me by pretending he was trying to "kiss" me. Like jabbing in the air with his lips. This is the only concrete thing I know he did. There could have been other inappropriate things, like the pretending he wanted to grab my balls one. But regardless, he'd do it because he knew I didn't like it and it would bother me. He would be persistent, probably because he felt he was too deep in the joke to stop or something. Maybe cause he knew it was weird. I dunno. Anyway, I'd have to tell him to cut it out. But that's what I mean. He'd do it to bully me, not as some other way.

He does it with other things, too, like trying to poke me or bop my nose. That's what bopping the nose usually was about. It'd be a competition to mess with each other. He's a lot stronger and bigger than I am, so he usually wins whatever stupid antics we do, but I digress. I guess I reasoned everything we were doing wasn't much different than when we play wrestle, even if we were mostly just resting there.

I don't remember what positions, past the ones I mentioned, were. He lay next to me. Sometimes we partially lay over each other. We'd embrace each other. But the fact I can't remember it breeds worry. How were we embracing? Was it just a hug and a few loose limbs, or something really weird? Was any body part in a weird position? Here's another thing that probably occured; his hand, at one point, moved to rest in my lap, in my crotch area, before I moved it away. He might've been trying mess with me by doing that, then. But if that's the case, did I elicit that from him? Did I do something to make him do that?

Eugh, god. And he was 17. No, I don't know. I really don't. Nevermind. I gotta stop talking. I feel disturbed and disgusted in myself. I'll stop now.
 
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