Homosexuals and "Faggots"

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Kraiden

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As a wise man once said, (Chris Rock), There are Black people, and then there are Niggers. That pretty much sums up a whole lot of groups, Be it Racial, Sexual, or Fetish groups.

It basically seems that the minority in most groups are almost always the loudest ones that seem to get the most public attention. Just look at Adult Babies. When most people hear the term, they think of the Diapered freaks of nature who go on Jerry Springer.

The same goes for me, actually. Now, I'm not really into the whole "Gay Community" thing. I don't actively prace around flaunting my sexuality and go on a crusade for my god given right to marry a man... but anyway...

I hate Faggots. They seriously piss me off. Now, don't get me wrong, I've got no problem with effeminate men, not at all. But It absolutely pisses me off to no extent when I turn on the news and I see a bunch of mascara wearing bastards shrieking out "We're Here! We're Queer!" rallying for acceptance. It just blows my mind. How the hell do you think any sane person would accept you when you're prancing down the street in a thong in front of children? Why the hell is it that these... Faggots are the ones what everyone thinks of when the word Homosexual comes up? I don't want to be lumped together with the Queer eye crew when I say I'm gay! I'm a Man! I like Explosions! I'm Hairy, and smell bad at the end of the day! Make up is for girls! Last I checked being gay meant you're attracted to males, not whiny little bitches who carry around a purse....

Ranting aside, What are all your thoughts on "Fags", and this thought in general? I'm sure everyone's seen the majority of the AB's that are reported on in the news...
 

care_a_lot

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Personally I actually find your belief in faggots to be rather cruel. I am actually one of those that would love to be walking down the road carrying the gay pride flag. The feeling that I get when I am amongst a throng of these people makes me feel safe, wanted and accepted. The cheering that is happening whilst you are making the march makes me smile and even though I don't march any more I still go every year just to cheer on those who do. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to publicly admit to who you are. If you sit in the shadow and don't make the public see that we are still here and are not to be toyed with then we are just wining children about wanting to get married or wanting to be treated as equals.

How did black people gain acceptance?
They marched!

How did women get the chance to vote?
They marched!

I believe that in todays society there is a place for the faggots and the flag wavers and will continue believing this until I see two things changing.

1. I want the right to be able to legally marry a woman and to see my friends have the chance to be able to get married to their same sex partners too!

2. I want to have the right to be treated as the heterosexuals do including the right to get married and to not have to fear who listens to me talk about my partner.

I don't want to worry every day about what happens if others find out about me. Historically marches have been what has changed the world to what it is today. I believe that there is a right to march and I am proud to tell the world that I am a dyke!
 
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I hate Faggots.
You hate bundles of sticks?

That aside, As stated by Care_a_lot they have there place in "the master plan" or whatever you would like to call the struggle for equality. I do see your point of view, public cross dressing disturbs me and I'm a LG. Heck I even go dress shopping with a couple of the girls, but I would never go walking down the street in a dress.

Gay pride is a good thing as it pushes the message of equality to the masses. But flaunting your homosexuality for the sake of embarrassing other people (as mentioned in the homophobic thread by someone) isn't right.

Hrmm I think I may have gone in circle or got side tracked. What I was trying to get across is people should consider other peoples dignity as well as there own when acting out.

I think that sounds right.... If not I apologies for coming across as a hypocrite!
 

Kraiden

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I'd have to disagree with you, Care a lot. Sure, Black people gained acceptance by marching, Women too. But the main difference betweed Black acceptance, Female acceptance and Homosexual acceptance is that Homosexuality isn't something that's practiced publically. Black people were opressed by society for their colour. Women were opressed because of their gender and some ass-backward middle-age thinking that males were the dominant gender. Homosexuality however, Is something that is generally kept behind closed doors and mostly isn't in public view. Sure, 2 guys could walk down the street holding hands, but it's generally not shoved in the face of the general public, and as such, I don't think trying to gain acceptance for something that's private should be done so... forcibly.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree that Homosexuals should be allowed to marry and not be put under public scrutiny for being openly in love with their partner and everything, However I don't think going on gay pride marches is the best thing we can do to gain acceptance for something that's usually kept behind closed doors. Wouldn't it be easier to do it.. I dunno, more subtlely, rather than try and ram it down every straight person's throat that you like someone of the same gender?
 

Takashi

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I have to agree with you Kraiden, I don't call them "fags" I call them Flamers, the type of gay that you can just look at them and be like "yeah he's gay." the people with the rainbow sleveless shirts and the really tight shorts that only a girl should wear because only a girl could make something like that look good.

But yeah I have no problem with gays because hell i'm bi, I just don't like it when people publicly show off there sexuality because no one cares which tree you swing from.
 

MarcusBear

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I won’t hold anyone in high esteem if they feel it’s appropriate to don leather bondage gear while miming explicit sexual acts on one another in public view, regardless if it’s in the name of pride or not. The people (faggots) who use pride marches as an excuse to act as flamboyant as possible might be the minority but the majority shouldn’t accept that behaviour as it reflects entirely on what the general public think of homosexuals which is the biggest irony.

You will not gain respect unless you treat yourselves and others with it.
 
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Peachy

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First of all, homophobia, racism and other practices of considering certain people inferior and acting upon it are based solely on prejudice. There's no logical argument why gays, people with certain skin colors or any other group of people is really inferior to another group, so rational thought should cause people to question their former beliefs and become more open-minded.

However, in order to make people think about their beliefs, you need a stimulus. I simply doubt that "ordinary" people will go "Hey, let's talk about black people's rights/homosexuals' rights" at the dinner table out of the blue. So I think care_a_lot is right in her opinion that it takes people who stick out to gain attention. Quite often, however, it can be negative attention - at least it is the case of the gay parades. I simply doubt the majority of the public wants to see people running around sparsely clothed in stereotypical leather bondage gear and pretending to perform sexual acts (or actually doing it - who knows?) on public streets. But without them - no attention!
Of course the real work is done by those people who have proper arguments and act appropriately, have discussions and take the time to convince people rather than shoving it into their faces.

Peachy
 

care_a_lot

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I hate to point this out to you Kraiden but yeah homosexuality is practiced publicly. Just by holding my mommy's hand and walking down the street that is classified as displaying my lesbianism. When I was younger and was with women who were about my age I would really stand out in the crowd because I would be the one holding my girls hand, stroking her hair and snuggling up close to her to tell her I love her. I have to admit I am publicly affectionate. Sure I'm not going to have sex in the middle of the street or something but I will hold her hand and tell her I love her. You just stated that two boys could walk down the street together...isn't that displaying homosexuality? What if these boys were to kiss? We should be able to kiss whom we want when we want so long as its not something which you would imagine would be socially inappropriate like I said above like sex in the street.

In a lot of places homosexuality is still condemned. A lot of the laws are that we cannot be treated the same as heterosexuals for instance we do not have the right to marriage something which I believe should be available for all mutually loving people to enjoy.

Somehow I don't think that the prime minister/president/whatever is going to just sit down with his partner over dinner and say "hmm I think I should give gay people some rights!" the only way that we can get some action going is by getting attention! Sure the drag queens are not the best way for attention maybe but you gotta admit they do get it! And after all isn't it a little bit hypocritical for us to say that we are ok with adult babies, ok with furrs, but not ok with men who feel the need to look like women or women who feel the need to look like men in public?
 
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I think this is one of those topics where you can neither agree nor disagree with both sides of the story.

In retrospect, I haven't seen one controversial ideal gain public attention until the efforts of a group of people. In that regard, those few flamboyant gay people are the one's that are pushing the issue into the public spotlight in an effort to gain acceptance. Don't get me wrong though, I understand that there are a few of them who are doing it purely so they can get a reaction, and they are the one's that I don't respect. Forcing an issue has both a good and bad aura around it. Yes, it does help in getting recognition and acceptance, otherwise the whole problem would just stagnate and not go anywhere. But when it gets taken to extremes is when even I get annoyed and wished they would just go away and drop the issue. It's all a matter of how you go about it.

I certainly do not mind those flamboyant types... hell, what proof do I have that they aren't just an extravagant and eccentric person in general? But there is a clear cut line between people like that and the one's who definitely try to force it down our throats. They blow up the whole thing and are quick to shoot you down if you do anything against them. Those that protest are only doing more bad than good. Out of nowhere, a sizeable group of people are marching down the street demanding they get noticed and accepted. I'm sorry, but that's just not how it works. People will come to accept it in their own time and pressing the matter does not help anyone in the slightest. However, I cannot deny that such protests and flamboyant pride has certainly gotten the gay community somewhere in this world. TV shows are now a socially acceptable outlet for gay people to express themselves. Having openly gay characters in shows is quite the norm now and I definitely do not think this would be the case had certain people in the gay community not spoken out about their discrimination.

All in all, there's not much else to say about this except that their are two sides to the story. You have the very "out there" types who thrust homosexuality into the spotlight, and whilst the consequence may be bad for those witihn the gay community as it gives them a bad image, you have to admit is has done a lot in the way of helping the community - as a whole - gain acceptance within the world. In a certain light, it's preferable that these flamboyant gays are like that, if only to benefit the community. But whilst they are like that, unfortunately there are just going to have to be those people who feel they are being misrepresented.
 

dogboy

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I'm guessing this is a continuation from the other thread on homophobia, and where I talked about my experiences at Westminster Choir College, and one type of homosexual that "camped". They did in fact make it difficult for the rest of us. By difficult, let this explain. My bf and I went to some cave open to the public. They sold extra crap, which included a WW I bayonette which I still own. I bought and had it in my room. One day I came back to my dorm room and found it sticking in my desk chair. I knew who did it, and I knew he didn't like me. He also thought that I was the one who had turned my bf into the gay life, though it actually was the opposite. Anyway, homophobia gains a lot of its momentum from the gay steriotypes we all see around us. If the gay community wants acceptance, they have to play the game. People will both fear and be turned off by things which they don't feel themselves, and therefore have no basis for empathy.

I do agree with Lukie that there probably is a psychological need for acting out. At WCC I had a lot of gay friends, particularly since I was in that community, who were flamboyant and deliberately made a show of it. One of my friends was in therapy, and his shrink said that he had a need for abasement. I of course made a comment related to his cellar which he didn't appreciate, but the point was that he needed to be ridiculed. Does that sound familiar to any of us, diapers and all. The mind is a complicated place in which to live. I suppose effeminate camping gays have a right to be who they are, but they shouldn't be surprised and mad when there is a public backlash. We are all responsible for our actions and the decisions we make, and we do have to live in this world, and coexist with everyone else.
 

AshleyAshes

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First of all, I agree with this thread but I would like to state very clearly that there is a difference between 'Letting people you know you're gay' and 'Making sure everyone knows your gay'. Your sexuality isn't something you should have to hide but it's also not something you should clearly state to someone when you introduce yourself to people. If your sexuality is something you feel you need to point out clear and specificly when you first meet someone, you have to be a pretty boring person if that's the best conversation material you have.

I see it as the difference between pizza being your favorite food, or wearing your 'I LOVE PIZZAZ!' T-shirt and introducing yourself as 'The #1 Pizza Fan' when you meet people. One is normal and one is kinda crazy.

There are gays but then there are also the gay community, gays are in the gay community but the gay community isn't all the gays. I generally dislike the gay community and find myself at odds with it. I live in CANADA, I can marry anyone I want, I can adopt what ever children I want assuming I can prove to the government I'm not gonna raise them in a crack house and I can't get fired for my sexuality... So I'm largely confused by the Canadian Gay community that wants to fight for it's rights... What's left? Take rights away from the straight people and assert the gays as the master race?

Well, maybe that's a bit much. But most gay activism to me seems kinda pointless to me, it's more people wanting to get upset about anything and make a hussle out of it to assert themselves into the front so everyone can see them. There are some pretty ****ing horrible things that happen agianst the gays but there are lots of things that are a moot point.

Gay pride parades are a sticking point for me. I really don't see much pride to be held when half the parade's contents looks more like Mardi Gras. It's a PARTY. Gay rights be damned, human rights events do not need to have a beer tent, drag queens in feather boas, men in leather shorts on leashes and other stuff that makes it look more like halloween. It doesn't really scream 'We're normal like you, respect us!'. If you wanna just have a party, just call it a party.

But yes, in general, those activly involved in the gay community put their sexuality at the forefront of their identity and it's something I largely disagree with. It's also caused those kinds of gays to become the primary media image.

...This goes into why I like YAOI MANGA. I get gay drama, romance, and mushy crap with no bothering with the gay rights or the ugly rainbow flag. It's presented as something normal, it's presented as something just is, yup, two boys... ...Let's get on with the romantic drama, cause that's why you're really reading this anyway!

Now, I'm in a bit of an odd spot anyway. If you read my introduction, I'm pretty damn feminine but I'm not flaming in anyway. I don't stick out as campy. If you were to look at me in a room full of girls (Which I was the only boy in a hotel room full of girls at an anime convention this weekend) I don't look like the gay one, I look like 'the flat chested girl' instead. I have long hair, I sound a lot like a girl, I have similar interests with the girls and all that. Which leaves me at odds agian, I like the idea of 'male femininity', that is boys who are feminine and just are but there are very few examples of it. Instead you see flaming gays who put on some cartoony, gay, uber-swish, exagerated feminine ACT, or there are drag queens and of course the genderqueers/revolutionaries that want to look like men while wearing pink frilly dresses.

Personally, I'm rather proud of the fact that I can be as feminine as I want to be, that I can say 'Ooo... He's cute' or check out a guy while standing in the middle of a crowd but I look entirely normal while doing it. I don't look the slightest bit out of place.

...Though I do wonder what if it'd be so easy if was girly and hell but was straight. o_O
 

chevre

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Well, to gain acceptance you need to appeal to people's sensibilities, not turn their stomachs. Blacks and women won their rights because they (for the most part) came forward and stated their case respectfully and in a way that could be understood by the public.

I liken it to (no offense intended) if the blacks had instead gathered in the street, donning African tribal clothing and penis gourds, and danced around to African drum beats screaming and chanting about the rights they wanted. Nobody would have taken them seriously. Sure, it might be in their culture/heritage, but you're not going to make a connection with mainstream culture that way.

I think if the gay/lesbian community wants equal rights they need to convince the public that they're just normal people like everyone else (and I believe this is true).
I have to admit that when I think of "gay pride" I do think of parades with flamboyant guys dressed in leather falling all over each other. It gets attention, sure, but it just confirms people's beliefs that homosexuality is a decadent and impure lifestyle.

So, I think Kraiden is right. It's a shame, too. All the people who I've known in person who were gay or lesbian were just normal people and I never had any problems with any of them.
 

boogalah

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Yeah it's easy. What Chris Rock meant was that there are black people, and there are idiots who make other black people look bad and fuel all the stereotypes (niggers). It works the same way with gay people.
 

care_a_lot

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There is a lot of backlash against the flamboyant gays even though I have found them to be the sweetest people around most of the time. Most of the gay boys whom were close to me were in fact drag queens so I got used to having them around me and the sound of high heels became a sound of comfort to me. I understand the reason why these people are scorned upon to a point. I mean we don't all want to be labelled as being just like them. But on the other hand I believe that to each their own and if that is the way that they want to live their lives...knowing how much scorn and how much anger they can cause..then who am I to stop them?
 

avery

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my town is sort of known far and wide for being accepting of gay folks. most of the gay people i know are pretty chill about it. some of them you'd probably be able to guess that they were gay from the way they dress and act. others you'd never know. none of my gay friends would ever use their sexual orientation as an excuse to be indecent in public.

a couple years ago we had this big gay-pride festival where gay people flocked to my town from literally all over the world just to strut around and act gay. it was so over-the-top it was just stupid. i didn't know whether to laugh at them or just look the other way. i wanted to grab them by the shirt (if they were wearing one) and shout "alright! i get it! you're gay! now just act normal, for christ's sake!"

i think if you come from a part of the world where people aren't accepting you either have to be really really closeted or really really out. if you want to be out you have to just embrace every gay stereotype you can possibly think of, so that the other gay people in the area (what few there are) recognize you as gay and you're able to bond with them as a community. that's my explanation for why gay people in my town are just ordinary gay people, and gay people in other places are all flamboyant and in-your-face about it.
 

ballucanb

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I think you have to be who you are, not what other people want you to be, I'm gay and I don't push it in other people faces.
 

Vladimir

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Meh. I don't mind homosexuals, but God, do faggots freak me out. I agree with Kraiden. Homosexuality, as the name implies, is SEXUAL. It is NOT meant to be practiced outside, and if you want to act like a girl because you feel pretty, do it at home. Do people masturbate outside? Because even though you could consider it more shocking because it shows everything or whatever, both are sexual behaviors. Effeminate men shouldn't normally feel the NEED to walk around outside in women's clothes. Sure, they can act effeminate, that's beyond their control, but do they absolutely need to make it visible...? I'd hate it if I saw people like that every morning in the bus.
 

dogboy

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I always like what Ashley Ashes has to say. You say it very well. By the way, my family has a cottage on Harris like in Point au Barille. Back on point, I wonder if anyone has seen or even remembers the movie "Boys in the Band" which came out in 1970. I think it may be the only movie which really depicts what it is to be gay. Most of what you see on t.v. and movies is nonsense. They depict the gay life as just having so much fun, like on "Will and Grace". The reality is so different. Having been surrounded by the "campers" in college, and many of them being friends, there was something else going on than just acting out. I think that idea of a need to be "punished" or made fun off was part of the psychology of who they are. I was considered "butch" by their standards, though I'm sure it wasn't saying all that much, but they had a psychological need to act out, and to be accepted as to who they are. I suppose there is a relation to those shirts that you see for sale on the internet that say "I'm a big baby", etc. Those who would wear that have something else going on in their head. My friends in the extreme gay world were by and large, not very happy, and sometimes suicidal. By the way, they also thought that everyone was gay; they just didn't realize it.

I looked on Amazon to see if "Boys in the Band" had been converted to DVD, but I couldn't find it. There is a movie of the Broadway play. I don't know if that is any good, but I know as depicted in the movie, the gay life is a hard road. We're cute and fun to have sex with when we're young, but not so as we get older. There my friends is the rub.
 

AshleyAshes

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Why thank you, Dog Boy. And all this time I'd thought I was just a cynical, ranty, bitch. :)

Ahem, as an addition to my pizza metaphore... I don't think people should be afraid to say 'That pizza looks good' or to eat their pizza in public. ...Just so long as they arn't rubbing it all over their body. :)

I definatly don't think that the alternative to being a complete attention whore about your sexuality should be being in the closet. I just think people should just BE gay, 'just be' in the simplified sense. You don't have to make sure everyone in the universe knows your gay but you shouldn't be hiding it from the entire universe either. There's a time and a place or everything afterall.
 

Spirit

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I'm all for gay pride but like anything else, I won't tolerate it being shoved down my throat.

But this topic is quite complex, I am only openly gay in the communities where I know I won't be tortured for it (here, the furry fandom, etc), but even then, how many times have you seen me prance around in a pink singlet shouting (or screaming) "Look at me! I'm gay and I'm go-- Oh my GOD! *screams* I need to give you a makeover!" That's what I think others are seeing in gays in general when they see pride marches.

On the topic of rights, same-sex marriage seems a little over the top to me sometimes, but I still think it's a damn sight better if you have two same-sex married couples who love each other rather than two straight couples who hate each other and are only in it for the money.

That's my bit.
 
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