High School Shootings.

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Roland

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5kMiYrWsXY

'I don't like mondays' was the phrase some 30 years ago a girl named Brenda Ann Spencer said when she was asked why she went on a killing spree, killing 2 people and injuring 9.

'Are you a christian?' Erric Harris asked a girl with a gun pointed at her. When she answered yes, he promtly shot her.

'But I'll be famous'' was a message Asa Coon left before he shot himself.

As you figured, I'm talking about High School shootings.

What scares me is the fact that there are more and more angry, depressed and slightly unstable students willing to take a gun and start killing people. Guns today are much easier to attain aswell today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

The link above shows it. We haven't quite got over 2007, and theres already 3 Shootings in 2008.

What are your opinions about this homicidal phenomena? Is it as some people say 'The music kids listen to?'. Is it just our modern society that promotes people to go off the edge?. Is it the idea of 'fame' that glistens the eyes of saddened youth?

Free discussion.

For more brainfood on School shootings, Watch Bowling for Coloumbine, and the black comedy Natural Born Killers
 

Rissy

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No... guns are easier to obtain in America... other places have realistic gun laws...
 

chevre

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What scares me, is it seems like these people are graduating and going to college, and continuing their shooting sprees there.

I mean recently there's Virginia Tech, North Illinois, and some guy who murdered someone at NC State and they think it was a random act...

As for why the shootings.. I wish I knew. It seems like we've got a lot of deeply disturbed individuals who are coming upon guns (obviously nothing good can come of this).

As for gun laws, it doesn't make a difference for high school shootings. I don't know of any state that allows people who are under 18 to buy firearms. In many places, you need to be 21 to get a handgun. Obviously these kids aren't procuring the guns through legal channels.
 

Vladimir

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I don't think it's because of the music we listen to that it happens, it's like saying that it's influenced by violent video games, which isn't true at all. I play No More Heroes and I'm perfectly sane. I think it's just because these people hate society for some reason, be it because of past events, mental disorders or other factors. They are most likely suicidal and want the world to remember them as the defenders of whatever cause, such as a religion, race, ideology, sex... It varies a lot between those people, and I can't help but think of it as "minor terrorism". It happened last year near my school. Kimveer Gill killed one girl in College Dawson and injured some students before shooting himself. That makes me realize that it can happen to about anyone, people just don't really care about it until it's too late.
 

Charlie

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I think maybe the fame thing is a big issue. Ask a kid what they want to be when they grow up and they often say "a footballer", "a model", "a rockstar"... or some just answer "I want to be famous"!
We do live in a society where celebrities are seen as being really important, and it seems like we should be aiming at becoming famous, and by doing that we'll be happy. It's pretty disgusting.

But that's a different issue really. One big problem is the fact that these kids can actually get hold of a gun! Do you know how hard it would be for me to get a gun? (A: very) Getting hold of a gun should be a difficult thing to do, and you should have to prove yourself as being safe and not a threat (and that includes the threat of you allowing the gun to be accessed by someone else!).

But then the gun thing is a different issue really. I think there's a lot of things that's wrong with how schools are (I can't really talk for elsewhere in the world but I'm sure that the problems are often universal) and some days you can't help but daydream about shooting everyone down and turning the gun on yourself!
People who need help should get it; all schools should have well-trained therapists in them.
 

Rissy

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I know shootings can happen reguardless... But the poor gun control America has doesn't help keep them from emotionally unstable peoples...
 
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Okay I defintely think that increased gun control is not going to solve anything. Like it was said before, high, middle, and elementary school shooters obviously arn't buying themfrom stores so what is increased gun control going to do for them?
Now I think the main reason that people go on shooting sprees is because of society pushing them over the edge. Right now in my life I am in a similar place, I am pretty pissed at society as a whole as of right now, and have been for the past 2 years. Why? Because I am sick and tired of majority of guys being Aholes and treating girls like crap, which therefore gives all guys a bad rep, including the good ones. I am a guy who has nver hit a girl, and never even called a girl a bad name duragatory or not (well not to their face anyways). Yet every girl looks at me as an Ahole just because I am a guy. So most of the time I am not even given a chance. Then when I am given a chance I turn out to be too nice and turn out to be the brother they never had or their best friend. Well let me tell you I AM F***ING SICK AND TIRED OF THIS BS!!! It is not fair to me and all the other good guys there are, even though yes there is not many good guys. So because of the way society is in the aspect, sometimes I do day dream about shooting up all the girls and all the Ahole guys for ruining my relationships in life.

That is a perfect example of how society just pushes people over the edge. The people around them, friends and family, need to recognize when a person is feeling against society so they can get them some help before they do anything bad. Now for myself, I do not need an therapy because that is not going to change how I feel about society, because how I feel about society is how it really is. All I can do is just try to keep myself sane and focus on other joys of life even if I am lonely constantly... :cry:
 

Rissy

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If you need a damn good reason to own a gun, I don't see students getting there hands on one unless they stole it...
 
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If you need a damn good reason to own a gun, I don't see students getting there hands on one unless they stole it...
Of course they steal it, where else do you think they get it from? 90% of the time they steal it or "borrow" it from their parents, or someone in their family. If not then they buy it off the street, so regulating the purchase of guns in stores won't do crap for any of that.
 

recovery

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I think maybe the fame thing is a big issue. Ask a kid what they want to be when they grow up and they often say "a footballer", "a model", "a rockstar"... or some just answer "I want to be famous"!
We do live in a society where celebrities are seen as being really important, and it seems like we should be aiming at becoming famous, and by doing that we'll be happy. It's pretty disgusting.
:iagree: That is so true. Really, it is. I think my headteacher said ages ago that 90% or so primary school kids felt that to be happy they had to be famous.

These shootings are made from mentally ill people. It was unfortunate that they weren't taking care of soon enough. Because of there illnesses, things like their imagination, games and films have a much greater influence on their behaviour.
 

Dawes

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The Assumption: Gun control in America sucks.

The Reality: Gun control in America -- having experienced it, being an owner of various firearms myself, for sporting use, competitive use, historical study, and self-defensive use -- is much, much tighter and intrusive than people in other countries may believe.
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The Assumption: Guns kill people.

The Reality: People kill people. I won't deny that Americans have less self-restraint than people in other countries, and I believe that's what causes them to go forward with these crazy ideas of killing people. I couldn't pinpoint why, but who knows, maybe it's something in our water?
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The Assumption: Movies, music, television all cause us to become violent.

The Reality: That's true, to a degree. Some people can handle it; others absorb it, but censorship should not be the right of the government; it is a right of the parent and the self to regulate stimulation.
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The Assumption: If there were even stricter gun-control laws, these things would not happen!

The Reality: Wrong. Take away the guns, and there will be knives, pencils, forks, bricks, cans, glass, bottles. An instinctive urge to kill (however unfounded) will not minimize itself for the lack of a convenient method. Tighten the laws around guns, and the lawful will be unable to protect themselves around the unlawful. The unlawful will have the guns regardless; crimes, to some, are meant to be broken, and it will be they who procure weapons. If you're willing to kill, you're likely willing to obtain your murder-weapon through unlawful means.
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The Assumption: High-school shootings happen because of the guns.

The Reality: High-school shootings happen because of a lack of attention, medical assistance, psychological assistance, guidance, parental interference, familial bonds. They are the result of mental instability, unchecked conditions, and straightforward flaws in someone's societal, emotional, and mental development.

School shootings are awful things, but the only way it's going to fix itself is if parents, guardians, and friends provide support networks for those who may not have them. School shootings cannot be predicted. All we can do is treat our fellow men and women with respect, and we can reduce the majority of them.

That, unfortunately, will be impossible.
 

Pramrider

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Now I think the main reason that people go on shooting sprees is because of society pushing them over the edge.
I agree, Eclipse. People of all ages are put under more pressure than ever before - pressure from school, parents, other kids, you name it. Some people can handle it without going over the edge (though possibly still suffering a degree of emotional damage) and others just completely crack at various points in their lives when the limit of endurance is reached. There's many variables that could be elaborated on which come into play and affect how individuals deal with stress and pressure. Guns were in HS when I was attending 40 years ago, but you rarely, if ever, heard of a shooting spree. The sources of pressure just weren't as prevalent then as they are today to cause students to go beserk and starting shooting anyone or everyone.

~Pramrider
 

Ben

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People here are complaining about the gun laws being restrictive etc. Thats because only a gun ban will ever truely stop shootings. America doesn't need to restrict guns more they need to flat out ban them for anyone not in the police. No matter how much you restrict them it will always be possible for a kid to steal the parents gun or someone whose mental health is unstable, but hasn't shown any signs of working. As for hunting make the guns rental only and have really tight restrictions on who can rent etc.
That way no kid can borrow the parents gun etc. Unfortunately the anti-gun lobby will never let this happen. To actually do this would take alot of effort etc, but it could definatley be done.
 

d4l

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People here are complaining about the gun laws being restrictive etc. Thats because only a gun ban will ever truely stop shootings. America doesn't need to restrict guns more they need to flat out ban them for anyone not in the police. No matter how much you restrict them it will always be possible for a kid to steal the parents gun or someone whose mental health is unstable, but hasn't shown any signs of working. As for hunting make the guns rental only and have really tight restrictions on who can rent etc.
That way no kid can borrow the parents gun etc. Unfortunately the anti-gun lobby will never let this happen. To actually do this would take alot of effort etc, but it could definatley be done.
Wow right.Yep. Gun bans will stop shootings alright just like the ban on alcohol worked and the ban on weed,lsd,coke,heroin,dob,mdma,shrooms,2c-*,DMT,Ghb,mescaline,ect has worked out wonderfully. As a hunter i can say that close minded people like you will never accomplish anything and i hate to tell you cops do worse things with guns than most people ever will. also why do cops need guns anyway the wonder of science have produced many non-lethal weapons.

It will NEVER happen because it is our constitutional right to own guns our founding fathers felt so strongly about this that they put it in THE DOCUMENT WAS THE FOUNDATION OF THE F-ING COUNTRY.

Perhaps instead of focusing on the gun we focus on the people committing the crime(new concept i know)
 
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avery

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one of my best friends was horribly horribly bullied in school (he went to school in the UK). his classmates actually tortured him and tried to kill him several times.

hearing him talk about his experiences and the way they influenced him i'm sad to say i can totally understand why a person would want to take a gun to school and just open fire on everyone. i hope i never find myself in a situation where i feel that kind of hatred for people.
 
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t will NEVER happen because it is our constitutional right to own guns our founding fathers felt so strongly about this that they put it in THE DOCUMENT WAS THE FOUNDATION OF THE F-ING COUNTRY.

Perhaps instead of focusing on the gun we focus on the people committing the crime(new concept i know)
I agree with you dude, but chill out, like you said its not going to happen, so do not get so worked up over it. :chillpill:
 

Tigger

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OMG, why do Americans go off half cocked at the suggestion on banning guns. Constitutional right blah blah...
 

Dawes

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OMG, why do Americans go off half cocked at the suggestion on banning guns. Constitutional right blah blah...
"Half-cocked at the suggestion on banning guns." I do love that pun! So let me explain this a bit more.

People think that America is in love with guns. People couldn't be more wrong.

The amount of gun-owners, gun-supporters, and pro-gun advocates is dropping each year. People external to the States seem to believe that America are a bunch of gun-toting, bully-minded sons-of-bitches, but the truth lies within the American living experience. Likely, you could come over to the country, ask someone if they were a gun-owner, and they would look at you as if you had murdered their children and stolen their wife. The truth is, gun-owners and bearers in America are becoming more scarce, and the idea of owning a gun is, to most, about as horrible as they can think. I can't be exactly sure for why that is, but I see it and experience it every day.

But to say, "Constitutional right, blah blah...," to a conservative (or simply gun-owning) American is like a doctor saying, "Oh, the right to be free of cancer, blah blah!" Although England and American now are extremely close, the act of owning a gun two-hundred-and-thirty-years ago allowed The United States of America to become its own separate and self-representing country. Many people -- such as myself -- believe that the right to bear arms was a huge proponent in our ability to break away from the political leash that England had us wrapped within. No offense to Englanders, there -- in historical retrospect, I think England was doing with America what was to be expected with an offshoot series of colonies, and I totally understand it.

But minds change, feelings change, and revolutions occur. We aren't the only country in which they have, but we're one of the only countries to have grown so prosperous because of it. To many Americans, the right to bear arms is not just a Constitutional allowance -- it is a human allowance, backing our ability to stay free in mind and body by, if the cause hails it, physically volatile means. Americans don't itch for a reason to use their guns, though. That feeling is reserved for the idiot-brained kids and hot-shot wannabes that litter our streets. I hope to never need to use my own firearms to hurt anyone else.

Many people may not support our right to bear arms. They may not understand it, or even think that it's right, but I implore you, respect the feelings of those who do, for to many, the right to bear arms is one way for us to remain proud of the legacy our forefathers passed down to us. It's a way for us to ensure that the status-quo doesn't change. I do believe it's a mindset that many people criticize, but that few can really understand.
 
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PuddleFopsKit

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In almost every case of a school shooting, there were clues left behind. Whether it be notes written by the shooter, or a message on a computer, there were clear clues that were ignored. The teachers, and counsellors ignore them, or else just think they want attention.
But then what is the problem with getting attention when you need it? If someone you have seen every day, for years, and knew well, asked you for help, wouldn't you try to help them? Of course you would, so why won't the teachers do the same? Cause that's what it really comes down to.

Many kids don't get the help when they need it. They take all the bullying, abuse, and torment everyday, and are shunned by society. They ask the principal, or teacher for help, and they help a bit, but in the end, no one takes it seriously enough. Every human has a primal instinct waiting to be unleashed at any moment. If someone pushes you hard enough, long enough, eventually your going to do something in your defense. I've met kids who have attempted suicide, homicide, or assaulted themselves or soemone else over constant bullying. If you look at it that way, picking up a gun is not a great leap of the imagination.

There are many reasons why soemone would be pushed to go on a rampage, but it is up to us to identify the problem before it happens. We can ban guns entirely- there's a lot of things we can do to reduce the number of school shootings. However, as someone else already said, there'll always be crime, and there'll always be violence in our schools. The only way to really fix the problem, is to put a stop to any bullying you see, or report it if you see it going in. Teachers and principals need take it more seriously, and actually help the ones who need it. Even if they don't ask for help, it's up to them to spot a problem. Shouldn't be hard considering they see each other every day.
 
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Charlie

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The gun thing is very interesting. Clearly guns are worth discussing because the problem is school SHOOTings, but like I said before the guns aren't the actual problem.
In an ideal world the real problem would be dealt with, and guns would be able to be left alone...
But then if guns should be made illegal surely alcohol should be made illegal too, since it causes so many more deaths than guns do... But then we can't ban alcohol just because of that because it feels like having it is some sort of right.
But then I think that alcohol is too easily available to people you shouldn't be drinking it (like kids), and I think things should be a lot stricter. And I think that gun laws should be stricter too (based on the fact that these kids can get hold of them). Surely there is some law saying that you must keep your gun locked away from your children when you're not using it?

I don't know what I think!
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The Assumption: If there were even stricter gun-control laws, these things would not happen!

The Reality: Wrong. Take away the guns, and there will be knives, pencils, forks, bricks, cans, glass, bottles. An instinctive urge to kill (however unfounded) will not minimize itself for the lack of a convenient method. Tighten the laws around guns, and the lawful will be unable to protect themselves around the unlawful. The unlawful will have the guns regardless; crimes, to some, are meant to be broken, and it will be they who procure weapons. If you're willing to kill, you're likely willing to obtain your murder-weapon through unlawful means.
I think the thing is there's a big leap between a gun and a knife. People in the UK don't go on stabbing massacres. Killing someone with a gun is easier than doing it with a less extreme weapon...
Don't get me wrong people do get stabbed/pencilled/forked/bricked/canned/glassed/bottled and stuff, but it's usually just the one person who's attacked. Banning guns won't stop bad things happening, but it would tone down things down a bit.

Wow right.Yep. Gun bans will stop shootings alright just like the ban on alcohol worked and the ban on weed,lsd,coke,heroin,dob,mdma,shrooms,2c-*,DMT,Ghb,mescaline,ect has worked out wonderfully. As a hunter i can say that close minded people like you will never accomplish anything and i hate to tell you cops do worse things with guns than most people ever will. also why do cops need guns anyway the wonder of science have produced many non-lethal weapons.
Well the bans on drugs do work, yes people still do drugs but there's less people doing drugs than there would be if it was legal! I don't think anyone is suggesting that banning guns would stop shootings because obviously that's not true. But making guns harder to get would lower shootings. Yes determined people will get hold of guns, but I'm thinking mainly about people who have a moment of insanity when they snap... if they can't get hold of a gun easily they'll probably have got over it enough to lose the desire to kill before they can get one.
(Also your "cops should use non-lethal weapons" argument is strange, shouldn't this mean everyone should use non-lethal weapons for self-defence?)
 
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