Has Trump totaly lost the plot ?

Makubird

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That's one email. The other emails are scattered between Podesta, Hillary, and the cable I linked you the entire database. I could dig them out but I know you would ignore it anyway. Spent enough time looking up the other links.
So, to summarise: you gave me the link to an email that would prove that Mueller committed a crime. I took the effort to read it, summarise it, and concluded that there was no crime. Then you say that the evidence is in other emails and that you are not going to show me because I would ignore them anyway.

And you are wondering why people are complaining that you don’t back up your claims and are not able to have a sound discussion?
 

Makubird

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@MrGnome: I also found a link for you that you may find interesting. It appears that your theories have been investigated for far longer than the Mueller investigation.

I think the problem is that you, in all sincerity, are trying to interpret the wikileaks documents, but that you consistently reach the wrong conclusions. This is complicated stuff. And don’t forget that Assange may have his agenda too when he publishes the documents.
The wikileaks documents have been investigated, like the uranium one documents, and experienced investigators have reached their conclusions. We should accept that we can not do this any better. The Wikipedia document that I sent you is a balanced review. Stick to thrusted sources and avoid conspiracy theorists and other influencers that are pushing their agenda.

 
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Icewolf

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Pardon my cherry picking and amateur philosophizing.
Eh, only times cherry picking bothers me is when one ignores the other parts of what I posted in order to try and make me out to be something I am not or quotes me fully but only addresses one part. As far as the amateur philosophizing, well, sometime amateur is all we have.
When we try to force three dimensional reality into single dimension thinking we are only asking for trouble.
I see it more as trying to force gray area thinking on black and white attitudes, but similar situation there
Also, the idea that we can find valid "evidence supporting [a] claim" is an illusion. Everyone knows you can find information on the internet to support any belief.
Well, for me, it is more them proving they are at least trying instead of just outright dismissing any evidence that does not support their argument. I mean we have a perfect example in this very thread, I want people to read things from both sides and make their own choice on what happened. A little hard to do when sources are not provided.
To answer my own question above, political right or left is always relative to the individual's belief about where the center of the political universe is.
Well, true, but when I talk about center and left/right, well, I place the center as a roughly equal mix between right and left policies and attitudes (on a % scale it would be that 45-55% mix range).

But this is the kind of thing I am asking for, no insults between us, just civil discussion where we can state our views and respect each other.
 

sallyanne

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You always play the victim when you actually started the rudeness especially Sgtball. I dont how many times you pushed for mods to moderate someone when you also deserved to me moderated. Don't expect people to not defend themselves when you try label them something their not.

Oh my god so horrible telling people they have right to free speech and not to follow a unconstutional dictator law! You really have zero revoutionary spirit. Glad our forfathers werent like you or we probably be still ruled by England. It's not like its a surprise to me that the worlds so messed up and would actually pass a law to limit free speech.

And thats why you type of people are the most dangerous to anyone like me who is free mind. I can actually land up in jail for no reason because of people like you creating these laws. And thats why im starting to get pissed and not being so nice anymore.
LOL Free mind??? Of all the participants in this debate you have the LEAST free mind. Yours is set in concrete and hovering over hell. You are absolutely incapable of accepting any fact that is contrary to your belief. Like Trump, you think you are an expert in everything while the truth is that you appear to be an idiot on every topic. As long as you refuse to accept objective facts - as trump does - then you will be continue to be relegated to the laughing stock you currently are.

To prove my point, I will as you to answer one simple question and then laugh at your tortuous inability to answer it.

Q Do you believe that Trump lies a lot in his speeches and statements?

Let the laughter commence...
 

MrGnome

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When you are talking to Trumptards you must always remember that like Trump himself, they don't actually read things, largely because half of them cant read anyhow. They just see 'Mueller' and 'uranium' and the rest is the fabrications of damaged and deluded minds. The tragedy is that this clown is spewing out provable lies but lacks the intellectual honesty and/or capacity to know they are lies.

Trumptards are the cretins of our time. Given a gun, they would be manning the gas chambers for mexicans blacks and anyone else not white and republican. Think I am overstating the case? People said that about Hitler at first as well. They they said nothing at all. Ever again.
Yeah Im such a Trumptard who probably mentioned more of his real faults than most here....No actually he never said anything bad about LEGAL Latinos. And he especially has nothing against blacks in fact black unemployment is up the highest its ever been. Theres absoutely no proof Trump is racist. He just doesnt want anyone coming in regardless of race or country who is an ILLEGAL. You guys love to play word games when calling Trump racist. He also has never said anything bad about gays. The only big mistake made is hiring Mike Pence who is against gays. But you have to attack Pence specfically on that. I for one hate most of his cabinet picks including Pence. I also strongly was against his invasion on Syria last year. I was dissapointed he went along with the globslist elitist propaganda on Syria. He may have realized he made a mistake and believed pulled out shortly. But this does not sit well for me. I really dont like presidents going along with the warmongers and propagandist. I even called whitehouse hotline to inform I was displeased Trump was attacking Syria without having congress review if it was necessary to go to war or interfere. I tried to prevent it. I mean sure I knew they never hear my voice and certainly not trump. But I called out principle cause I was generally concerned. This was during the time all alt leftist were distracted and froathing from the mouth about Stormy Daniels. All my alt left fb friends never mentioned a word about Syrian people getting killed. So no I dont think I fit into your catergory as a, "Trumptard". But I bet I did more than you that day he attacked syria last year?

This showed his weakness that he could be bullied around by the elitist. Only time will tell if he stabs us in the back on the 2nd term like most of the past presidents wait for. He will have to earn my trust and respect back for me to vote for him. And if he does not pardon Jullian Assange and keeps on lying he doesnt know him, I especially wont be voting for him 2020. A true patriot does not throw fellow patriots to the wolves!
 

MrGnome

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LOL Free mind??? Of all the participants in this debate you have the LEAST free mind. Yours is set in concrete and hovering over hell. You are absolutely incapable of accepting any fact that is contrary to your belief. Like Trump, you think you are an expert in everything while the truth is that you appear to be an idiot on every topic. As long as you refuse to accept objective facts - as trump does - then you will be continue to be relegated to the laughing stock you currently are.

To prove my point, I will as you to answer one simple question and then laugh at your tortuous inability to answer it.

Q Do you believe that Trump lies a lot in his speeches and statements?

Let the laughter commence...
No its because you probably havent read all my past post. So your capacity of understanding my inteligence is limited or the way I think through a electronic message. I actually have attended abdl parties in cali and we had some pretty awesome civil debates. Everyone had fun philsophsizing! One of the best parties I attended and still talk to few of them.

And yes to answer your question like I said in my previous post. I do know of only one time Trump lied and that was lying recently that he doesn't know who Jullian Assange is! When he clearly mentioned wikileaks over 2 years ago! So yes thats the only valid claim I know of him lying. Which again didnt sit well with me at all. Im not in fact this evil trumptard you think I am.
 
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Makubird

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And yes to answer your question like I said in my previous post. I do know of only one time Trump lied and that was lying recently that he doesn't know who Jullian Assange is! When he clearly mentioned wikileaks over 2 years ago! So yes thats the only valid claim I know of him lying. Which again didnt sit well with me at all. Im not in fact this evil trumptard you think I am.
Are you aware that there are over 10,000 documented and proven lies over the past two years?
 

MrGnome

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Are you aware that there are over 10,000 documented and proven lies over the past two years?
You have mention them specifically. Because all I heard of his so called taking out of context riddiculous mainstream media interpretation of him lying. There may be a few I didnt hear about. But it better not be not taken out of context or I will discard as more media hoaxes and selective editing techniques they use. I have never trusted mainstream media long before Trump came on board. Trump stole that talking point from us Independents.

But we were the orginal ones trying to educate people that Fox news and CNN were propaganda way back in the early 2000s. We basically gave Trump the talking points. But we all knew he could be fake and was a wild card. We tried use him as much as we could. He wasn't radical enough for me like Kennedy was. Trump never talked about dismantling it or at the very least auditing federal Reserve like Kennedy did. Which probably real reason he was asasinated. You talk against the federal reserve you better bet they will kill you at least if your president. I just don't think Trump has the balls to destroy the Federal Reserve. I hope he surprises me but I doubt it. I believe he might of been compromised or was part the game from the very beginning. The main real reason United States has soo many problems. The root of all evil and Trump has basically watered down and ignored that message.
 

CutePrincess

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Well, for me, it is more them proving they are at least trying instead of just outright dismissing any evidence that does not support their argument. I mean we have a perfect example in this very thread, I want people to read things from both sides and make their own choice on what happened. A little hard to do when sources are not provided.
problem here is there is no 2 sides here, gnome is just relaying fake propaganda and half truths. It was explained several times why he is not understanding the situation and why his so called facts and conclusions are false. You cant defend this saying "respect right side political view" why should we defend lies for?
 
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Makubird

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You have mention them specifically. Because all I heard of his so called taking out of context riddiculous mainstream media interpretation of him lying. There may be a few I didnt hear about. But it better not be not taken out of context or I will discard as more media hoaxes and selective editing techniques they use. I have never trusted mainstream media long before Trump came on board. Trump stole that talking point from us Independents.

But we were the orginal ones trying to educate people that Fox news and CNN were propaganda way back in the early 2000s. We basically gave Trump the talking points. But we all knew he could be fake and was a wild card. We tried use him as much as we could. He wasn't radical enough for me like Kennedy was. Trump never talked about dismantling it or at the very least auditing federal Reserve like Kennedy did. Which probably real reason he was asasinated. You talk against the federal reserve you better bet they will kill you at least if your president. I just don't think Trump has the balls to destroy the Federal Reserve. I hope he surprises me but I doubt it. I believe he might of been compromised or was part the game from the very beginning. The main real reason United States has soo many problems. The root of all evil and Trump has basically watered down and ignored that message.
What you are saying is this: “whatever you say, I want evidence. Show me the proof of each of the 10,000 lies.
In the mean time, I continue raving ever wilder theories without proving anything. Just look somewhere at YouTube or in the wikileaks documents. And if you disagree, that is your fault.”

Sometimes I am wondering whether you are serious about what you are writing, or that you are just trolling us.
 
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Makubird

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@MrGnome:
This webpage shows you Trump’s lies, including comments and evidence.
Since you sent me a link to a Washington Post article before I suppose you find this a reliable source.


Since I have now several times given you specific evidence of my claims, now it is your turn. Correct and specific links please, not a reference to the complete wikileaks documents. That would be the same as when I told you to ‘just look in the newspaper’.
 
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KawaiiBabyjenni

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You have mention them specifically. Because all I heard of his so called taking out of context riddiculous mainstream media interpretation of him lying. There may be a few I didnt hear about. But it better not be not taken out of context or I will discard as more media hoaxes and selective editing techniques they use. I have never trusted mainstream media long before Trump came on board. Trump stole that talking point from us Independents.

But we were the orginal ones trying to educate people that Fox news and CNN were propaganda way back in the early 2000s. We basically gave Trump the talking points. But we all knew he could be fake and was a wild card. We tried use him as much as we could. He wasn't radical enough for me like Kennedy was. Trump never talked about dismantling it or at the very least auditing federal Reserve like Kennedy did. Which probably real reason he was asasinated. You talk against the federal reserve you better bet they will kill you at least if your president. I just don't think Trump has the balls to destroy the Federal Reserve. I hope he surprises me but I doubt it. I believe he might of been compromised or was part the game from the very beginning. The main real reason United States has soo many problems. The root of all evil and Trump has basically watered down and ignored that message.
I think this classic quote sums you up pretty accurately: "There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 

SnowPrincessSophie

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Yeah Im such a Trumptard who probably mentioned more of his real faults than most here....No actually he never said anything bad about LEGAL Latinos. And he especially has nothing against blacks in fact black unemployment is up the highest its ever been. Theres absoutely no proof Trump is racist. He just doesnt want anyone coming in regardless of race or country who is an ILLEGAL. You guys love to play word games when calling Trump racist. He also has never said anything bad about gays. The only big mistake made is hiring Mike Pence who is against gays. But you have to attack Pence specfically on that. I for one hate most of his cabinet picks including Pence. I also strongly was against his invasion on Syria last year. I was dissapointed he went along with the globslist elitist propaganda on Syria. He may have realized he made a mistake and believed pulled out shortly. But this does not sit well for me. I really dont like presidents going along with the warmongers and propagandist. I even called whitehouse hotline to inform I was displeased Trump was attacking Syria without having congress review if it was necessary to go to war or interfere. I tried to prevent it. I mean sure I knew they never hear my voice and certainly not trump. But I called out principle cause I was generally concerned. This was during the time all alt leftist were distracted and froathing from the mouth about Stormy Daniels. All my alt left fb friends never mentioned a word about Syrian people getting killed. So no I dont think I fit into your catergory as a, "Trumptard". But I bet I did more than you that day he attacked syria last year?

This showed his weakness that he could be bullied around by the elitist. Only time will tell if he stabs us in the back on the 2nd term like most of the past presidents wait for. He will have to earn my trust and respect back for me to vote for him. And if he does not pardon Jullian Assange and keeps on lying he doesnt know him, I especially wont be voting for him 2020. A true patriot does not throw fellow patriots to the wolves!
Trump not racist? I'll just leave this here, then. Make of it what you will.

 

Icewolf

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problem here is there is no 2 sides here
There are 2 sides, even if it is just those who are willing to give Gnome the benefit of a doubt and those who are trying to shut him down.
gnome is just relaying fake propaganda and half truths.
I can see where some might see that, but as Drifter said, one can find information to support any belief on the Internet.
It was explained several times why he is not understanding the situation and why his so called facts and conclusions are false.
Only thing I would find him guilty of is the flawed conclusions, but how many of those explanations actually have proof that things are the other way? Aside from the links from Makubird I have seen very little with support and most come across as differing views or things that allow people to reach their own conclusions. There are sites like Snopes.com, which one can use to fact check and mediabaisfactcheck.com which ranks news sources on: political leaning (ranging from extreme on one end, to least biased to extreme on the other end), Factual reporting and U.S. freedom rank.

You can say Gnome is lying and spreading propaganda, but how am I to know you are not doing the same? Even if links are provided, 2 people can read them and come to different conclusions. I will take snopes reports on individual situations, I did check the deal with Cilinton and Russia on the uranium there and they said it was false. I am also skeptical of news sources that media bias/fact check reports as anything more then center-left to center right and has mixed factual reporting and downright distrustful of anything on the extreme ends and with a low factual reporting.
You cant defend this saying "respect right side political view"
As long as there is the shadow of a doubt for me, I actually can as without being able to research or check things out for myself, I have no clue who is lying, who is spreading misinformation, etc. This is why I ask for different sources
why should we defend lies for?
Please, in this world "I don't believe you, so you must by lying" seems the mantra for most people. We should not defend lies, once we find out they are lies, I don't think gnome is being 100% truthful, or at least not 100% in the right, but at the same time all I have found against him is flawed conclusions. The way the world is today, a well told lie can sound like truth and the truth can sound like a lie.

However, again, you have taken something I said, not in a reply to you, I never mentioned gnome in that post, in fact the example I was referring to was the situation with Clinton, Mueller and the Uranium to Russia. Gnome provided his side of the situation with his conclusion, another provided the counter, I was able to look at both and reach my own conclusion. You seem to want people to believe what you say without proof, sorry that won't work. In fact, if you want people to believe gnome is lying, maybe you should not talk as if responding to him but one that is on the fence and provide the links for people to check things out and draw their own conclusions. In other words, speak to the ones that might be open to what you have to say instead of the one that you feel, or know, will not listen. The fact you brought it back to gnome just shows you are more interested in coming out on top over him.
 

Icewolf

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Trump not racist? I'll just leave this here, then. Make of it what you will.
Read that and checked Snopes, best I can come up with is he, or his employees were racist in the past, but he is not now. Which means one can claim he was racist in the past but he changed and is not now, his employees were yet he was not, People change, I challenge anyone to say they have never had a moment of even subtle racism or times they did not think someone of a certain race was less then normal/human even if they did not act on such

One thing some forget is Trump was also a democrat in his past (he was a blue dog or conservative democrat) as well as an independent yet is a republican now. If his party can change, can't other parts of him change? For your perusal I provide https://www.thoughtco.com/was-donald-trump-a-democrat-3367571.
 

MrGnome

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Trump not racist? I'll just leave this here, then. Make of it what you will.

That's a very poor case but I won't completely throw out as a possibility but also says,

"Donald Trump denied any racial discrimination, but said his managers tried to weed out certain kinds of tenants. “What we didn’t do was rent to welfare cases, white or black," Trump wrote in a 1987 book.

The Trumps and their company entered into a consent decree settling the litigation in 1975. The agreement contained no admission of wrongdoing, but required the Trump firm to institute a series of safeguards to make sure apartments were rented without regard to race, color, religion, sex or national origin."

It seems to me he didn't like black or whites on welfare renting his apartments because he probably wasn't confident they could pay their rent being on welfare. I need more evidence than that to determine he's racist!
 

MrGnome

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There are 2 sides, even if it is just those who are willing to give Gnome the benefit of a doubt and those who are trying to shut him down.

I can see where some might see that, but as Drifter said, one can find information to support any belief on the Internet.

Only thing I would find him guilty of is the flawed conclusions, but how many of those explanations actually have proof that things are the other way? Aside from the links from Makubird I have seen very little with support and most come across as differing views or things that allow people to reach their own conclusions. There are sites like Snopes.com, which one can use to fact check and mediabaisfactcheck.com which ranks news sources on: political leaning (ranging from extreme on one end, to least biased to extreme on the other end), Factual reporting and U.S. freedom rank.

You can say Gnome is lying and spreading propaganda, but how am I to know you are not doing the same? Even if links are provided, 2 people can read them and come to different conclusions. I will take snopes reports on individual situations, I did check the deal with Cilinton and Russia on the uranium there and they said it was false. I am also skeptical of news sources that media bias/fact check reports as anything more then center-left to center right and has mixed factual reporting and downright distrustful of anything on the extreme ends and with a low factual reporting.

As long as there is the shadow of a doubt for me, I actually can as without being able to research or check things out for myself, I have no clue who is lying, who is spreading misinformation, etc. This is why I ask for different sources

Please, in this world "I don't believe you, so you must by lying" seems the mantra for most people. We should not defend lies, once we find out they are lies, I don't think gnome is being 100% truthful, or at least not 100% in the right, but at the same time all I have found against him is flawed conclusions. The way the world is today, a well told lie can sound like truth and the truth can sound like a lie.

However, again, you have taken something I said, not in a reply to you, I never mentioned gnome in that post, in fact the example I was referring to was the situation with Clinton, Mueller and the Uranium to Russia. Gnome provided his side of the situation with his conclusion, another provided the counter, I was able to look at both and reach my own conclusion. You seem to want people to believe what you say without proof, sorry that won't work. In fact, if you want people to believe gnome is lying, maybe you should not talk as if responding to him but one that is on the fence and provide the links for people to check things out and draw their own conclusions. In other words, speak to the ones that might be open to what you have to say instead of the one that you feel, or know, will not listen. The fact you brought it back to gnome just shows you are more interested in coming out on top over him.
Yes Snopes is a big problem! And so other so called fact checking sites. I have found them lying on occasion and was very easy to prove. Also Snopes is run by a cat lady and her husband that are divorced now. Snopes also is heavily funded by the Clinton Foundation. Conflict of interest anyone?

But this is the biggest deception on Snopes. For example they claimed George Soros helping confiscate property from the jews in WW2. Now here's where it gets tricky. Snopes claims the claim is totally false. But they're only are talking about a picture of him wearing nazi uniform. This pic was in fact fake! But the 60 minutes interview which I can gladly direct everyone if they don't believe me; shows George Soros openly talking about as a tennager helping a nazi confiscate his own people's property. But guess what Snopes only talked about the fake picture going around the internet. They lied that he in fact did help the nazis and he admitted this on 60 minutes. This is where Snopes can be deceptive because they don't tell the whole story or they selective edit things to make appear to be false. They called the whole thing false when in fact most was actually true! CNN did a similar deceptive tactic by claiming the claim is false without showing the 60 minute video. And yes most of my conclusions are my opinions or added commentary. Wikileaks is the most non politically biased with no added opinion, I can find. I challege anyone to find something more bipartisian. I could find tons of links from mainstream media like Fox news, Washingtonpost, etc. But I was trying to find sources that were completely Independent of the two parties. I for one hate opinionated news and wish we could go back to just reporting the news.
 

MrGnome

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I think this classic quote sums you up pretty accurately: "There are none so blind as those who will not see."
No I think that describes you with your pathetic one sentence responses. I can write paragraphs on multiple subjects, you write one sentence and am the blind one? Not mention you ignored every point I brought up there. Do you like the Federal Reserve? Prove me wrong why I'm such a nutter to want get rid of illegal private institution prints as much money as they want without backing up with real assets, and artificially increase the interest rates when they please? And on top of it they say your not allowed audit them. So you can make sure they aren't stealing or being funded by offshore bankers. Why are you not flaming mad about that? Instead concerned about Stormy Daniels porn star and the Russian Delusion hoax. Who's more awake here?
 

KawaiiBabyjenni

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No I think that describes you with your pathetic one sentence responses. I can write paragraphs on multiple subjects, you write one sentence and am the blind one? Not mention you ignored every point I brought up there. Do you like the Federal Reserve? Prove me wrong why I'm such a nutter to want get rid of illegal private institution prints as much money as they want without backing up with real assets, and artificially increase the interest rates when they please? And on top of it they say your not allowed audit them. So you can make sure they aren't stealing or being funded by offshore bankers. Why are you not flaming mad about that? Instead concerned about Stormy Daniels porn star and the Russian Delusion hoax. Who's more awake here?
Every word you type proves yourself wrong. That's what makes people like you so laughable. It was already proven Trump paid off Stormy Daniels. And honestly Trump doesn't need the whole "Russian Coalition" thing to make himself look like a complete douche bag of a human being. He does that by himself with his fraudulent businesses, and hundreds of lawsuits he has lost. Remember he "knows more than the generals do." And how about his great negotiating skills with North Korea? They are still testing short, and long range nuclear missiles with no signs of stopping.
 

Icewolf

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I can find. I challege anyone to find something more bipartisian. I could find tons of links from mainstream media like Fox news, Washingtonpost, etc. But I was trying to find sources that were completely Independent of the two parties. I for one hate opinionated news and wish we could go back to just reporting the news.
This is where mediabiasfactcheck.com comes in, is it perfect? no, but here is their list of least biased sites https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/center/ Snopes made the list there, but like I said it is not perfect. Wikileaks to them is Center-right and mixed factual reporting due to the spin some leaks result in and the idea most of their leaks favor the right.

I use this site to check sources I find to see if they might be spinning to their bias, not perfect but it at least has summaries of how different sources got their ratings so one can see their line of thinking.
 
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