Has Trump totaly lost the plot ?

PCPilot

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Only a MORON believes Muller sold Uranium One to Russia.
Why on Earth would a nuclear power with literally TONS of uranium ore, highly enriched uranium and plutonium even want to buy it? The only countries who are interested in this are rogue states without a nuclear program of their own, not nuclear powers who have been refining the stuff for almost a century.

It doesn't pass the smell test.
 

Icewolf

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Umm... does anyone else think this thread could use less arguing?
It's a politics thread. Even without Trump, there would be arguing. It is kinda the point of politics.
It is a politics thread, so arguing is expected, but could we at least keep it civil? That is the one thing I really am disappointed about when it comes to political discussions. Yet the left, and unfortunately the right at times, keeps insulting the other side. Try to make your points and arguments without insulting the poster or their side. Some can defend Trump in one way and attack him for something else. Mr. Gnome does not come across as a far right conservative, but lumping him in with them just makes those that may be in the middle, like he is, go to the right when it comes time to vote.

One might think coming down on the other side, or those that think differently from them, makes their side look good, it does not, it just pushes people away from them and into the arms of the other side. I try to avoid such myself, but even I slip at times. However, I see one reason Hillary lost is due to her insulting 1/2 the country, I would have thought dems would learn from that and instead they seem to double down on the insults. I am for more then 2 parties because there are so many different views, like one can be a republican and be against Trump, yet everything seems to boil down to red vs blue. Where is the moderate? where is the middle? where is the idea that there is anything but far left and far right? Most of the country is likely someplace in that middle but those are the silent majority.
 
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Just seems like people reciting their fav news channel talking points, no one know the truth, only what’s spoon fed to them
 

CutePrincess

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It is a politics thread, so arguing is expected, but could we at least keep it civil? That is the one thing I really am disappointed about when it comes to political discussions. Yet the left, and unfortunately the right at times, keeps insulting the other side. Try to make your points and arguments without insulting the poster or their side. Some can defend Trump in one way and attack him for something else. Mr. Gnome does not come across as a far right conservative, but lumping him in with them just makes those that may be in the middle, like he is, go to the right when it comes time to vote.
Well some are calling him that because that is the propaganda he is repeating. I never called him that and yet he wants to insult others because of his baseless made up fake "news" For example, he claimed "The fact you actually support censorship and shutting people freedom of speech is absolutely disgusting" this is very insulting to me, put words in my mouth to this degree because someone does not understand how laws work.

So it is hard to have a civil discussion when one goes around trying to silence others, not listen to what others say, and trying to drown out others with fake news. Idc what his political affiliation is, what he claims/thinks is is or however he views himself, does not change the fact all he is doing is repeating alt right propaganda and fake news.
 
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Icewolf

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this is very insulting to me, put words in my mouth to this degree because someone does not understand how laws work.
Welcome to how some of us on the right feel when dealing with the left.
So it is hard to have a civil discussion when one goes around trying to silence others, not listen to what others say, and trying to drown out others with fake news.
Again, welcome to how the right feels when dealing with the left. The main thing I am asking for is people to treat others with the respect they want to be treated with. If one starts sounding like an idiot, let them but don't sink to their level. If you sink to their level you just prove you are no better then them.

Just food for thought, I am on the right, and in a republican stronghold, yet I respect the left and know they have good ideas/know what works in high population areas and all I ask for, from either side, is civility.
 

CutePrincess

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Welcome to how some of us on the right feel when dealing with the left.

Again, welcome to how the right feels when dealing with the left. The main thing I am asking for is people to treat others with the respect they want to be treated with. If one starts sounding like an idiot, let them but don't sink to their level. If you sink to their level you just prove you are no better then them.

Just food for thought, I am on the right, and in a republican stronghold, yet I respect the left and know they have good ideas/know what works in high population areas and all I ask for, from either side, is civility.
i do not know what your point is, im actually center right. being conservative does not mean you buy into made up nonsense just because you hate democrat ideas. There is no "welcome to how the right deals with the left here" I stated what he was doing. I did not insult in any way, I do not understand your stance here. Being conservative does not mean you blindly follow fake anti-left "information". Most of the things he said is not even real while the rest is skewed misinterpretation of what really happened, or half truths.
Barr will be just fine!:D And please the only one promoting propaganda is you!
contempt passed, maybe this will show how much fake news you been reading.
 
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MrGnome

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Only a MORON believes Muller sold Uranium One to Russia. The depth of your ignorant stupidity is truly astonishing. Of course, as a rabid Trump supporter that is pretty much your profile, period. I bet you still think Trump is rich after discovering he was LITERALLY the biggest financial loser in the US one year.
Here is the direct RAW wikileak email. I already quoted this about a month ago. No sites quoting or opinions just raw data. The way news should be! No opinions just hard cold evidence! Mueller selling Uranium one to Russians. Still a moron? Still like Mueller?

Ok I have went through my fb backup data and boy did I find some juicy stuff. This got to be the worst for your hero Robert Mueller. You guys know the real reason Mueller opened a fake russian investigation on Trump? Well looks Mr. honest Mueller been doing more dealing with the Russians than Trump. So here it is the official wikileak email proving Robert Mueller gave Uranium to the Russians! https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09STATE38943_a.html
 

MrGnome

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See everyone why Mueller and Hillary was so eager to frame Trump? Mueller has to cover up his own crimes! I saw this email back in 2016 and that's why I do not support Russian Collusion investigation. I felt it was corrupted and unfair from the start having Mueller a criminal investigate a president.
 

MrGnome

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Just seems like people reciting their fav news channel talking points, no one know the truth, only what’s spoon fed to them
Now this is very possible! I cannot deny the possibility of that. The elites do love to see us arguing and killing each other. I have always been against mainstream media, way before Trump came on the scene. I actually believe it or not hate politics! The only reason I had to start diving down in the cease pool of politics, was to try to get people stop arguing. Try help them realize both parties were corrupt so they could come together for the important issues on this planet. But after 10 years of trying this I officially have gave up. I realize you really can't change people's beliefs. So really is pointless. Even since I was kid seeing Democrats and Republicans argue, felt to me ridiculous. Because they really are both assholes in the end! And by that I mean the politicians not all the voters. And that's why I stayed in the middle. Now both Democrats and Republicans hate me. Either a Republican calls me far left or a Democrat calls me alt right. People have big problems understanding balance in the middle. This boggles my mind!
 

Makubird

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See everyone why Mueller and Hillary was so eager to frame Trump? Mueller has to cover up his own crimes! I saw this email back in 2016 and that's why I do not support Russian Collusion investigation. I felt it was corrupted and unfair from the start having Mueller a criminal investigate a president.

I have read the wikileak document before when you first posted it, and I have just read it again. I see no prove at all of a crime.

The document describes an effort to ascertain Russia’s commitment in investigating the possible theft of highly enriched uranium from one of its facilities. The uranium was seized by Americans in Georgia and it was suspected that it came from a Russian facility. Because the Russians didn’t want to pick up a sample to investigate whether it was their uranium or not, mueller went to Russia to deliver a small sample, hoping the Russians would then investigate and prevent the further theft of this high risk material.

So, what is wrong with that? What is the crime?
 

sallyanne

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I have read the wikileak document before when you first posted it, and I have just read it again. I see no prove at all of a crime.

The document describes an effort to ascertain Russia’s commitment in investigating the possible theft of highly enriched uranium from one of its facilities. The uranium was seized by Americans in Georgia and it was suspected that it came from a Russian facility. Because the Russians didn’t want to pick up a sample to investigate whether it was their uranium or not, mueller went to Russia to deliver a small sample, hoping the Russians would then investigate and prevent the further theft of this high risk material.

So, what is wrong with that? What is the crime?
When you are talking to Trumptards you must always remember that like Trump himself, they don't actually read things, largely because half of them cant read anyhow. They just see 'Mueller' and 'uranium' and the rest is the fabrications of damaged and deluded minds. The tragedy is that this clown is spewing out provable lies but lacks the intellectual honesty and/or capacity to know they are lies.

Trumptards are the cretins of our time. Given a gun, they would be manning the gas chambers for mexicans blacks and anyone else not white and republican. Think I am overstating the case? People said that about Hitler at first as well. They they said nothing at all. Ever again.
 

sallyanne

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Now this is very possible! I cannot deny the possibility of that. The elites do love to see us arguing and killing each other. I have always been against mainstream media, way before Trump came on the scene. I actually believe it or not hate politics! The only reason I had to start diving down in the cease pool of politics, was to try to get people stop arguing. Try help them realize both parties were corrupt so they could come together for the important issues on this planet. But after 10 years of trying this I officially have gave up. I realize you really can't change people's beliefs. So really is pointless. Even since I was kid seeing Democrats and Republicans argue, felt to me ridiculous. Because they really are both assholes in the end! And by that I mean the politicians not all the voters. And that's why I stayed in the middle. Now both Democrats and Republicans hate me. Either a Republican calls me far left or a Democrat calls me alt right. People have big problems understanding balance in the middle. This boggles my mind!
and yet you chose not to become a centrist but to make yourself so far right, that Stephen Miller would call you an extremist.
 

sallyanne

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Here is the direct RAW wikileak email. I already quoted this about a month ago. No sites quoting or opinions just raw data. The way news should be! No opinions just hard cold evidence! Mueller selling Uranium one to Russians. Still a moron? Still like Mueller?
Did you even read the email you linked to? The email clearly has nothing to do with Uranium One at all which everybody already knows - except you.
 

sallyanne

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It is a politics thread, so arguing is expected, but could we at least keep it civil? That is the one thing I really am disappointed about when it comes to political discussions. Yet the left, and unfortunately the right at times, keeps insulting the other side. Try to make your points and arguments without insulting the poster or their side. Some can defend Trump in one way and attack him for something else. Mr. Gnome does not come across as a far right conservative, but lumping him in with them just makes those that may be in the middle, like he is, go to the right when it comes time to vote.

One might think coming down on the other side, or those that think differently from them, makes their side look good, it does not, it just pushes people away from them and into the arms of the other side. I try to avoid such myself, but even I slip at times. However, I see one reason Hillary lost is due to her insulting 1/2 the country, I would have thought dems would learn from that and instead they seem to double down on the insults. I am for more then 2 parties because there are so many different views, like one can be a republican and be against Trump, yet everything seems to boil down to red vs blue. Where is the moderate? where is the middle? where is the idea that there is anything but far left and far right? Most of the country is likely someplace in that middle but those are the silent majority.
I think Gnome comes across very strongly as far right. He quote and actually believes the BS that the far right spews, he has no regard for provable facts of any kind and has a kind of paranoia peculiar to that group. And with Trump ogling 10yos and calling Mexicans rapists, I think the right has the title (for the moment) as the rudest side of politics. it has not always been so, bit at the moment, the right has it in spades.
 
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Icewolf

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i do not know what your point is, im actually center right. being conservative does not mean you buy into made up nonsense just because you hate democrat ideas.
You stated that he was putting words in your mouth, a tactic that is often used by the left and the right to try and paint their opponents arguments as something they are not. You might be center-right but seemed to be coming across as left, my mistake there.
I did not insult in any way, I do not understand your stance here.
and I was just using your reply to me to frame what I was asking for, I.E. I want more to reply like you do. The "Welcome to how the right feels when dealing with the left" while replying to you was actually targeted at those who do indeed insult. In essence your first reply to me was for a post that was not targeted at you and I was just using it to try and strengthen my argument for civility.
I do not understand your stance here. Being conservative does not mean you blindly follow fake anti-left "information".
My stance might have escaped some because I am trying not to take a left vs. right stance here, I am just asking for civility and using examples of things I have experienced or read in the past. I am also asking to let those who start spewing nonsense to let them spew it, do not try to engage them in discussion unless you can do so civilly. If one can do that, they can come out better then their opponent, just be aware that this tactic can lead to "first one to slip loses" situations

Like you I am a more centrist republican/conservative. But to address your second point here, I don't blindly follow fake "anti-left" information but I do prefer it if those claiming it is fake can provide evidence supporting the claim from at least one centrist if not right leaning source. I'd also prefer it if Mr. Gnome could back up his claims with more sources just to help those of us that might not be in it as deep.

Again, I apologize if you thought I was talking about you in particular, you are actually being civil most of the time, I was just making a general request for civility and your first response to me pointed out common areas where civility can fail to happen, if I had known you were center right I would have made it more "welcome to how certain members of both sides treat the other side".
 
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Azie

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Here is the direct RAW wikileak email. I already quoted this about a month ago. No sites quoting or opinions just raw data. The way news should be! No opinions just hard cold evidence! Mueller selling Uranium one to Russians. Still a moron? Still like Mueller?
So, I read this email. Mueller didn't commit a crime. He was transporting it with government permission to assist in a smuggling investigation of seized uranium. This is a case of even though we are at odds with each other, let's work together to stop the real threat of rogue groups looking to exploit it for destructive reasons.
 

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You stated that he was putting words in your mouth, a tactic that is often used by the left and the right to try and paint their opponents arguments as something they are not. You might be center-right but seemed to be coming across as left, my mistake there.
and yet you did the SAME MISTAKE trying to mislabel me. He flat out did put words in my mouth and I explained why. Pointing out someone doing this has no restriction of political affiliation. One best not say I want to stiffen "free speech" when I am simply pointing out there is laws ALREADY THAT EXIST AND ENFORCED being violated in this situation (saying lies that causes harm to others, or can provoke others to cause harm to others, i/e pizzagate for example) These laws, if memory serves correctly, one of which has a bases from... in the 60s or so? someone broadcasted a joke about an alien invasion and things... got out of hand... so that's why you can't do what alex Jones did with the pizzagate thing or the tinfoil hat of mass shootings.
In the days after the adaptation, widespread outrage was expressed in the media. The program's news-bulletin format was described as deceptive by some newspapers and public figures, leading to an outcry against the broadcasters and calls for regulation by the Federal Communications Commission.[2] Nevertheless, the episode secured Welles's fame as a dramatist.
hate to break it to you gnome, but laws exist already in regards of "free speech" regulations. Stop trying to encourage others in breaking the law, these laws exist for a reason. This is why I am upset with you, you should not be promoting this and misrepresenting this delicate issue.

for the rest of the post, i was talking about gnome in specific. I am not trying to put a political label on him, I do not care to do such a thing. All I was pointing out is what he is doing here, blindly following anti-democrat fake information (or false interpretation) of facts. So when you are asking about civility here, the reason there is friction is because of gnomes blind following on this, and him attacking/insulting others, like putting words in my mouth, while others have less patience on this sort of thing. I am doing my best to be respectful to him but he makes it VERY HARD to keep such a track.
I have read the wikileak document before when you first posted it, and I have just read it again. I see no prove at all of a crime.

The document describes an effort to ascertain Russia’s commitment in investigating the possible theft of highly enriched uranium from one of its facilities. The uranium was seized by Americans in Georgia and it was suspected that it came from a Russian facility. Because the Russians didn’t want to pick up a sample to investigate whether it was their uranium or not, mueller went to Russia to deliver a small sample, hoping the Russians would then investigate and prevent the further theft of this high risk material.

So, what is wrong with that? What is the crime?
interesting, I thought that came from confusion and wrong spin when Hilary was weakly involved in a deal , not that.
 
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Drifter

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Welcome to how some of us on the right feel when dealing with the left.

I don't blindly follow fake "anti-left" information but I do prefer it if those claiming it is fake can provide evidence supporting the claim from at least one centrist if not right leaning source.
Pardon my cherry picking and amateur philosophizing. I respect the way you are always trying to inject common sense into these discussions. I think most people can relate to these points and probably believe they are already taking this common sense approach. But I see a problem with this.

For one thing, "right" and "left" are not absolute positions but are always relative to something else, but relative to what?. Sure, we could say that, in political philosophy, the left endpoint is communistic socialism and the right endpoint is theocratic dictatorship, and then claim a position for ourselves relative to these two points. It seems most people look at it this way in our left/right arguments, but I think this approach is problematic because it leads to viewing others on a different position on this imaginary line as "opponents", a term you yourself have used.

And our political differences are not limited to points on this left/right line. Differing views on capitalism or moral standards, for example, easily coexist anywhere along this line, making our political differences more three dimensional than one dimensional. When we try to force three dimensional reality into single dimension thinking we are only asking for trouble.

Also, the idea that we can find valid "evidence supporting [a] claim" is an illusion. Everyone knows you can find information on the internet to support any belief. Because of this we have a strong tendency to dismiss any evidence opposing our point of view as fake news, and we can all find plenty of bullshit to prove that.

To answer my own question above, political right or left is always relative to the individual's belief about where the center of the political universe is.

I may be wrong about these things but one thing I think we can agree on is that we are doing something wrong. "We", as in all of us. I believe this realization is where we need to start. When was the last time you saw anyone change their opinion when confronted with "the evidence"?
 

MrGnome

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personal attacks like this are not allowed
and yet you did the SAME MISTAKE trying to mislabel me. He flat out did put words in my mouth and I explained why. Pointing out someone doing this has no restriction of political affiliation. One best not say I want to stiffen "free speech" when I am simply pointing out there is laws ALREADY THAT EXIST AND ENFORCED being violated in this situation (saying lies that causes harm to others, or can provoke others to cause harm to others, i/e pizzagate for example) These laws, if memory serves correctly, one of which has a bases from... in the 60s or so? someone broadcasted a joke about an alien invasion and things... got out of hand... so that's why you can't do what alex Jones did with the pizzagate thing or the tinfoil hat of mass shootings.

hate to break it to you gnome, but laws exist already in regards of "free speech" regulations. Stop trying to encourage others in breaking the law, these laws exist for a reason. This is why I am upset with you, you should not be promoting this and misrepresenting this delicate issue.

for the rest of the post, i was talking about gnome in specific. I am not trying to put a political label on him, I do not care to do such a thing. All I was pointing out is what he is doing here, blindly following anti-democrat fake information (or false interpretation) of facts. So when you are asking about civility here, the reason there is friction is because of gnomes blind following on this, and him attacking/insulting others, like putting words in my mouth, while others have less patience on this sort of thing. I am doing my best to be respectful to him but he makes it VERY HARD to keep such a track.

interesting, I thought that came from confusion and wrong spin when Hilary was weakly involved in a deal , not that.
You always play the victim when you actually started the rudeness especially Sgtball. I dont how many times you pushed for mods to moderate someone when you also deserved to me moderated. Don't expect people to not defend themselves when you try label them something their not.

Oh my god so horrible telling people they have right to free speech and not to follow a unconstutional dictator law! You really have zero revoutionary spirit. Glad our forfathers werent like you or we probably be still ruled by England. It's not like its a surprise to me that the worlds so messed up and would actually pass a law to limit free speech.

And thats why you type of people are the most dangerous to anyone like me who is free mind. I can actually land up in jail for no reason because of people like you creating these laws. And thats why im starting to get pissed and not being so nice anymore.
 

MrGnome

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I have read the wikileak document before when you first posted it, and I have just read it again. I see no prove at all of a crime.

The document describes an effort to ascertain Russia’s commitment in investigating the possible theft of highly enriched uranium from one of its facilities. The uranium was seized by Americans in Georgia and it was suspected that it came from a Russian facility. Because the Russians didn’t want to pick up a sample to investigate whether it was their uranium or not, mueller went to Russia to deliver a small sample, hoping the Russians would then investigate and prevent the further theft of this high risk material.

So, what is wrong with that? What is the crime?

"As Russian interests gradually took control of Uranium One millions of dollars were donated to the Clinton Foundation between 2009 and 2013 from individuals directly connected to the deal including the Chairman of Uranium One, Ian Telfer. Although Mrs Clinton had an agreement with the Obama White House to publicly identify all donors to the Clinton Foundation, the contributions from the Chairman of Uranium One were not publicly disclosed by the Clintons."


That's one email. The other emails are scattered between Podesta, Hillary, and the cable I linked you the entire database. I could dig them out but I know you would ignore it anyway. Spent enough time looking up the other links. Anyway the summary is, the Clinton Foundation was giving a big donation of money from the uranium one deal which happens to be owned by the Russians. Robert Mueller Is believed to be covering for her making like it was legit business dealing with Russia, when in fact it was not. The point is Hillary is very much involved with the Russians. And more proof she's more involved than Trump. The whole Russian Collusion investigation has been compromised by allowing criminals to investigate a president. I rest my case!
 
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