Gun Control?

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BabyMullet

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The guys who wrote the 2nd amendment had just fought a war, and successfully overthrew a much larger nation because they had guns. It was pretty smart of them to realize that the people of the US may have to do that again, rise up against the government because they were doing stupid things.

You can call the police, but who can you call on the police? That is the purpose of the 2nd amendment, not personal safety, not hunting, it is almost akin to civic duty.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with background checks, requiring people to lock up their guns so children don't get em and pull their heads offs, and other gun safety classes.

But these actions will not stop school shootings, massive murder sprees, and gang wars. Insane people will do insane things, this is a fact of life. And criminals will always do crime.

Also, quite the thread necro.
 

mm3

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My father got out of the army in 1994 after receiving First Sergeant rank (I was 2, mom was having hard time with me alone...). With him he had his M16-A2, his Desert Eagle, and a WWII Colt which was given to him as a gift with silver and gold plating from a higher officer who retired shortly before he did.

My family (on his side, myself included) love firearms. We love shooting up targets upstate in Vermont with the various firearms he's come into ownership. Now, I went through rifle academy as well as plenty of training and safety instruction both from my father and instructors.

My own rifle, a .22 caliber semi-automatic with a rimfire hunting scope. I adore this firearm. I also have my father's old Desert Eagle after it was deemed inoperable after my dad busted his .50 caliber barrel. I plan on getting a barrel once I can for it, because I'd like to get my pistol skills up to par with my marksman's. I'm unsure if I want a .44 or a .50 yet, but that'll come once I can find a place up there that will sell them.

Now, on the topic of Gun Control. I got my hunting license right after my 16th birthday. All the weapons that are in my family are all legally bought, registered, and licensed. Now, why can't everyone do this? Beats me.

But here's my opinion. People who are able/allowed to get a license, just get one and get your firearm registered and there won't be any problems. It's like weed, when you think of it. Take Amsterdam; you won't find people killing each other over there over Marijuana because it's legal and easy to get a hold of. Now, look at the states. The more restricted and illegal it is, the more people want it. Weed is illegal, so more people want it. It's just how humans are.

IMO, it's a little more delicate than that. My opinions on legalizing weed in the states is different.

But, I stand by what I said about tighter security = more people wanting them. Face it, if people want a gun, they're going to get it one way or another. Just stick to licensing and registration. It'll be so much easier on everyone. Fail to have a license or registration for it? Boom, you go to jail. Nothing wrong with that, obviously you're not supposed to have one, right?
 

the0silent0alchemist

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Is that directed at me? If so, I don't really need it. I thought it was a cool weapon, so I bought one. I enjoy shooting it. BTW, it's an AR-15. an AK-47 is a Russian weapon(Though many other countries make their own variant) that fires a 7.62x39 caliber bullet(Same thing as a .308 caliber round). There is a big difference. As for your last paragraph, we do have to fear terrorism now.
well i like guns for more or less the same reasons d like other weapons, from swords to the 50. cal rifle, even though im disgusted by the death and destruction they cause, they are like thay are today as a result of innovation and constant effort of refinement of design as a scientist and a fan of human creativity and proud of our ability to learn and refine things, i would be a fool to ignore guns as well, put simply it is the items, the guns in themselves that i like and the chemical, mechanical principles that make them function.

and well, the immense physics of a bullet being fired and flying at its ttarget never cease to amaze me however, give me a sword, spear or longbow anyday

and after playing games like call of duty 4 and medal of honour and battlefeld 2. i can see why one would want to fire a gun
 
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the0silent0alchemist

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This statement sent chills down my spine.
i didnt mean it that way im saying i can nderstand what a gun user would get out of fring a weapon...

Im saying it demonstrates the wide variety of weapons that exist in terns of look, feel, size and weight, ammunition used, manufacturer, recoil, range, internal mechanisms etc.
as well as how simply awsome they look when firing and feel when firing.
For example the barret 50. calibur rifle, an absolute monser of a gun, is it REALLY neccesary for that gun to exist: not on your life, the only guns that would serve any real purpose in a normal persons hand would be possible protection from animals, and hunting using simple rifles and shotguns, automatics dont really NEED to exist, as for self defense, lets face it humanity got on fine without guns didnt they, but is it nevertheless cool: hell yes!
 

Jeremiah

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i didnt mean it that way im saying i can nderstand what a gun user would get out of fring a weapon...

Im saying it demonstrates the wide variety of weapons that exist in terns of look, feel, size and weight, ammunition used, manufacturer, recoil, range, internal mechanisms etc.
Oh, that sounds much better. Yes, those game do try to represent the real weapons as well as possible. The MP5 is a lot different from an M16. For most circumstances, I prefer a Colt Anaconda (8 inch ported barrel) or Mossberg model 835. For combat, I would choose a shotgun, if given the choice.


For example the barret 50. calibur rifle, an absolute monser of a gun, is it REALLY neccesary for that gun to exist: not on your life, the only guns that would serve any real purpose in a normal persons hand would be possible protection from animals, and hunting using simple rifles and shotguns, automatics dont really NEED to exist, as for self defense, lets face it humanity got on fine without guns didnt they, but is it nevertheless cool: hell yes!
The Barrett .50 caliber rifle is in deed a monster of a rifle. It is the largest and most powerful shoulder fired weapon available today (could be wrong). This weapon was original designed to give troops the potency of the M2 machine gun cartridge in a lighter weight configuration. Its current military and police use is undeniable. For civilian use, this rifle allows for long range shooting and confident kill shots on large, tough, and dangerous animals such as grizzly bears in North America. In Africa, some guides carry double barrel break action rifles in .500 nitro express. These rifles have 2 triggers, one for each barrel. These rifles are only used to stop large charging animals from killing someone. In case of emergency, the guide may choose to fire both barrels at once, thus ending the danger. The guide will end up in a hospital with, at a minimum, a broken shoulder. How is that for extreme necessity?

SDA, please provide your definition of a "simple hunting rifle" and describe how this is different from a semi-automatic rifle. I propose that my lever action Winchester Model 94 chambered in 30-30 Wincher is more effective than an M16 in experienced hands. Oh, and what is wrong with handguns? My Colt Anaconda ( 44 mag 6 round revolver) is more suitable for packing into the Everlades than either of my hunting rifles. More powerful cartridge for ranges within 100 yards, extreme reliability, and the option of using snake shot are its good points.

Automatic weapons are a moot point in civilian hands. This is why the United States Federal government has restricted their use since the 1960's. The news shows always show video clips of FULLY-automatic (rounds fired until trigger released) rifles when discussing gun bans. These are already unavailable to the general public. The US general public may only purchase the SEMI-automatic (one round per trigger pull) versions. Fully automatic weapons, rifles with barrels shorter than 16 inch, shotguns with barrels less than 18 inch, and silencers are class 3 firearms which are normally only used by military and police agencies.

One final note, why exclude self defense? The Romans specified a maximum sword length for its citizens. How have we advanced beyond needing to defend one's self? During my life, I have been involved in 3 situations in which a firearm was asked to provide defense. While I lived in South Dakota, the nearest police department was about 45 minutes away. In case of emergency, what good would they be? The last time such an incident occured, I was 40 miles north of Wall, South Dakota. Wall is just a dot on the insterstate in the middle of South Dakota. I had to drive at least 5 minutes just to get cell phone reception from that location. Here in Florida, Police response times are better, but not much. A 15 minute wait is an eternity in a life threatening situation. This is why Florida, Georgia, Oregon, South Dakota, and over half of the other states allow conceiled weapon permits. California is one state that is not tolerant of personal firearms, and has many cities that are not safe.

I am looking forward to your response, Silent Deadly Alchemist.
 

Lorica

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The reason the 2nd amendment is there.

I'm not sure if any of you realize this or not.

But the Second Amendment exists for three reasons.

One. It is to guarantee an individual a right to defend themself with lethal force if necessary.

Two. To use in a militia capacity to defend their fellowman from enemies both foreign and domestic.

Three. To use in violent revolt against our government when it starts overstepping it's bounds and impeding our personal liberty.

Other, namely European, nationals may not understand the third concept. And most Americans who live under this Aegis of Protection, do not understand this concept.

Right now there really is no need for #2. As our military is a giant behemoth of destruction not many are willing to go toe to toe with our engines of destruction.

#1 is always relevant. Even if you live in so-called "low or no crime" areas.

#3 is quite possibly the the most important reason why Americans should be looking at arming themselves with the best hardware they can afford. This is the reason why people should buy "assault rifles", and other military grade weaponry. So it can be used against our own police and military forces should they turn against us. That is why George Washington and Co. put that in there. So the people have the tools to fight back against a tyrant, or group of tyrants as the case may be.
 

the0silent0alchemist

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Oh, that sounds much better. Yes, those game do try to represent the real weapons as well as possible. The MP5 is a lot different from an M16. For most circumstances, I prefer a Colt Anaconda (8 inch ported barrel) or Mossberg model 835. For combat, I would choose a shotgun, if given the choice.




The Barrett .50 caliber rifle is in deed a monster of a rifle. It is the largest and most powerful shoulder fired weapon available today (could be wrong). This weapon was original designed to give troops the potency of the M2 machine gun cartridge in a lighter weight configuration. Its current military and police use is undeniable. For civilian use, this rifle allows for long range shooting and confident kill shots on large, tough, and dangerous animals such as grizzly bears in North America. In Africa, some guides carry double barrel break action rifles in .500 nitro express. These rifles have 2 triggers, one for each barrel. These rifles are only used to stop large charging animals from killing someone. In case of emergency, the guide may choose to fire both barrels at once, thus ending the danger. The guide will end up in a hospital with, at a minimum, a broken shoulder. How is that for extreme necessity?

SDA, please provide your definition of a "simple hunting rifle" and describe how this is different from a semi-automatic rifle. I propose that my lever action Winchester Model 94 chambered in 30-30 Wincher is more effective than an M16 in experienced hands. Oh, and what is wrong with handguns? My Colt Anaconda ( 44 mag 6 round revolver) is more suitable for packing into the Everlades than either of my hunting rifles. More powerful cartridge for ranges within 100 yards, extreme reliability, and the option of using snake shot are its good points.

Automatic weapons are a moot point in civilian hands. This is why the United States Federal government has restricted their use since the 1960's. The news shows always show video clips of FULLY-automatic (rounds fired until trigger released) rifles when discussing gun bans. These are already unavailable to the general public. The US general public may only purchase the SEMI-automatic (one round per trigger pull) versions. Fully automatic weapons, rifles with barrels shorter than 16 inch, shotguns with barrels less than 18 inch, and silencers are class 3 firearms which are normally only used by military and police agencies.

One final note, why exclude self defense? The Romans specified a maximum sword length for its citizens. How have we advanced beyond needing to defend one's self? During my life, I have been involved in 3 situations in which a firearm was asked to provide defense. While I lived in South Dakota, the nearest police department was about 45 minutes away. In case of emergency, what good would they be? The last time such an incident occured, I was 40 miles north of Wall, South Dakota. Wall is just a dot on the insterstate in the middle of South Dakota. I had to drive at least 5 minutes just to get cell phone reception from that location. Here in Florida, Police response times are better, but not much. A 15 minute wait is an eternity in a life threatening situation. This is why Florida, Georgia, Oregon, South Dakota, and over half of the other states allow conceiled weapon permits. California is one state that is not tolerant of personal firearms, and has many cities that are not safe.

I am looking forward to your response, Silent Deadly Alchemist.
i have none. i know when im soundly beaten.

wait ummm, snake shot... care to explain, ive never hear of that term before is that this setting on the gun that makes the round behave in a particular way?

and i suppose guns indirectly could e a lifesaver e.g in lost saiyid uses gunpowder to cauterise charlies wound, in nausicaa: and the vally of the wind (anime movie with sound relevence) nausicaa uses the gunpowder from her rifle to weaken the area surrounding the eye of the shed ohmu shell so she could remove it for the use as a window, and in the same token, the black powder could be used to light fires or break rocks in emergencies...
 
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kite

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i'm just glad tracer, depleted uranium, and shrapnel rounds are either banned or controlled (but the US military has still been known to use and sell depleted uranium shells bypassing the UN's ban on them).
 

Jeremiah

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CCI, a US manufacturer of ammunition, sells shotshells for a variety of pistol cartridges, to include .22 LR, 357 Mag, and 44 Mag. These contain a a small amount of gunpowder compared to regular ammunition to propel a hollow plastic vial down the barrel. This plastic container contains either #12 or #9 shot, depending upon cartridge size. My box is marked 44 Spl/Mag and specifies 1/4 ounce of #9 shot (~170 pellets) per cartridge. This is what I call "snake shot" because it is only effective at very close range for small animals, such as snakes. This is also the most common use for these. These have a very small chance of richocet thus allowing the shotter to safely shot a small threat close at one's feet without worry of the bullet bouncing back.

A revolver allows the operator to load a couple shotshells in the cylinder with regular ammunition, thus giving the option of both readily available. The cylinder is loaded to use the shotshells first. If the other ammunition is required, the operator can cock the hammer repeatedly to rotate the regular ammunition into firing position. Either that, or just fire until the threat is nuetralized.

The Florida Everglades have Rattlesnakes, Cotton Mouths, and Water Maccosins, all venemous snakes. These are a more likely threat than wild boar or alligators. However, one should be prepared for all of the above when walking through the swamp.

I hope this answers the question of "snake shot" acceptably.
 

the0silent0alchemist

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in deed it does,

as i said earlier, one of my attractions to guns is the sheer variability and adaptability of guns and ammunition, as an example of extensive refinement assesment and innovation on the part of R&D and manufacturers which, despite my general dislike for guns being simply weapons of war and destruction they STILL are indicative of the trait which makes me proud to be human if all else fails (think of most of humanities screw ups), the ability to learn, assess and refine. (thank you 'lone wolf and cub')

i also consider one of my better traits to be my intense willingness to learn, a by product of my sientific beckgrounds

as fior the snakes, yeah i figured as much, i know americas got most of the top ranking ones, although for the record i THINK (not sure here) we may have the 'official' #1, the tiger snake or something.

but for the record, prefer the old fashioned way of defense, mempty hand, or close quarters, using mostly non lethals (dont think id enjoy killing) like staves, sai, or others the exception being the longbow, im OBSESSED about that weapon.

in fact im trying, the best i can do at least to make a 'longbow' althugh the cross section isnt like the traditional cross section of the english longbow, its out of tasmanian oak, about 1820mm tall.

i also vouch for swords more because, yeah a gun looks cool, its fascnating in its workings, in my opinion for simplicity and showing of skill, i choose the sword, its simple, and well, i like the adrenalin of a close quarters duel, (a DUEL only)

and jeremiah i thnk youd enjoy visiting this place lawrance ordinance
 

Jeremiah

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Silent Deadly Alchemist, thank your for the link. Too bad most of their ammunition is stuff I have never heard of before. The rifles and handguns were fun to view.

Silent Deadly Achemist, do you know what Australia has for gun laws? I am curious if a 44 magnum revolver, a 12 gauge pump action shotgun, or a lever action 30-30 (7 round tube magazine) is legal in your country. This is simply for my own information. Thank you for your time.
 

the0silent0alchemist

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no idea...

actually i think wikipedia has a pretty good article.

as i said, for the most part i hate guns, i take it you didnt see the OTHER portions of their website i.e the sharpened edge which is the portal to see all their swords knives axes armour and other whatnot. ther swords are all from CASiberia/hanwei, and as a result the quality is superb...
 

juriev

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One must remember, the situation in New York City is quite different than the one say in Montana.
 

Allanon

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Americans, at least on a person-by-person level, have a tendency to be disaster-oriented. That is, they prepare ahead for the worst possible outcome, and then hope that never comes around, but we feel safe because we are prepared.

That mindset also applies to gun, and the fact that despite living in an incredibly safe part of the USA, I will never feel safe unless I have access to a gun, preferably a handgun, although a looking down the barrel of a double barrel 12 gauge shotgun is a pretty nasty deterrent.

Am I ever going to need it? I am 99.9999% sure I will not. Does that change the mindset I and everyone in this entire country was raised with? No. I'm prepared for the worst, and I feel safe because of it.
 

the0silent0alchemist

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good philosophy, always expect the worst case scenario, if your right your prepared, if your wrong then you lose nothing
 

Allanon

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Keep in mind though, that like any philosophy, there are good and bad points to it.

Spending a few months of my life in several South American countries, where the prevalent philosophy is more to "life for the moment," I can say that there are also definite benefits to living as that. That philosophy is lived almost perfectly to the letter near coastal areas.

Americans tend to live for "what's going to happen next, and how can I prepare for it?" We make out plans, we make sure we are prepared for disaster, etc.

Just like the prevalent philosophy in South America, there's good and bad things about it.
 
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