Gender Roles?

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Rakai

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Well It's come up many times in convo's lately at least in ones I've been in. So I wanna know what are your view on gender roles?? To elaborate gender roles are the roles that a certain gender are supposed to follow in life, the male supports a family and blahdy blah and such. Do you think gender roles really have any place in the more liberal world we seem to be going into.

my personal opinion is that they have no purpose. Gender kinda got left by the roadside many years ago for me. Gender is meaningless to me, I wear girls clothes cause it looks cooler and I like them more..... so what. Society as a whole seems to look down at people like me for pushing the gender lines and breaking from the gender roles...... Your Thoughts??
 

starshine

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Females belong at the stove, bitch!







No, in all actuality I don't think there are many gender specific roles anymore. Granted - you don't see many women doing the grunt work around the house (such as fixing things...) and you don't see many men doing lightwork (such as sweeping, dishes, mopping...)

Of course there are women doing grunt work, and males doing lightwork, but from what I've seen *generally* it is still kinda gender-specific.

I don't think though, that people should stick to a role just because it's expected of their sex.
 

FluffyFluffers

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I believe in equal rights on everything so XD you figure it out.....I find gender roles bull shit
And yes that does include no special treat meant twords girls. So yes I will hit a girl...If hit first. :p
 

Rakai

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I believe in equal rights on everything so XD you figure it out.....I find gender roles bull shit
And yes that does include no special treat meant twords girls. So yes I will hit a girl...If hit first. :p
I believe much the same as you women fought for many years to be 'equal but now they seem to be held as higher on some aspects...... male's are not supposed to hit a girl and such. I think that gender is pointless gender isn't necessary to anything but reproduction which we're already filling up the world with to many children. Love does not consider gender and neither does hate or rage so neither should society in my opinion
 
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In recent times, certainly over the last decade or so, there has been a huge swing in both the position of men and women in society. I think it's has to do with equality, the fence is getting knocked down and the two sides are gradually merging into one area.

As a man, the whole notion of being "macho", the breadwinner, the business leader has been completely thrown out the window. Men these days have moved into what are more traditionally "feminine" concepts - like looking good (metrosexual anyone?) and taking pride in appearance and self-presentableness. As well as becoming a stay-at-home dad and/or becoming the primary child nurturer, losing the status of breadwinner.

Women on the other hand are moving up on the professional career ladder, some all the way to top positions. Some of the most powerful/richest people in the world are/have been women and this contrasts greatly with the typical housekeeper image. Not only that, but women now partake in the same sports as men do, bringing about their own "machoness", head-strong aura.

I think that if we were to ever develop as a society and not be hypocritical about our own set-standards that "everyone is entitled to a fair go", then we would have had to eventually let the other gender into what have traditionally been gender-only circumstances. As more and more young people embrace non-conservative viewpoints, I can only seen the grey-area in between the divides of men and women grow larger, whilst gender-specific roles grow smaller.
 

mizzycub

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Fortunately I have met few people who have this attitude any more, and most of them are old - usually my grandparents. I personally don't think gender matters at all for a job, and think that people should only be picked for a job or a role based on their proficiency. Men and women are different and have different proficiencies, but I don't see why someone should be pigeon-holed into a certain area based on anything other than are they good at it.

Oddly enough recently, when I have come across people who consider one gender to be superior to another or that certain jobs are suited for certain genders, more of them have been women than men. For example, my school is seperate from a girls only school on the same grounds. The schools interact as little as possible. The headmaster of my school wants to, but the girls school headmistress considers boys to be inferior and damaging to 'her girls'. An example of this: there was a problem outside of school and the girls school points at the boys school saying it will be one of them. However, it was a girl who was arrested!

While we are getting a more balanced society, I don't think we are there yet. If anything, we are going to far the other way. Men can't say they are superior to women (which is correct) but women can say they are superior to men with no complaints. We are far more accepting, and many people don't believe in gender roles any more. However, I would not say that there aren't people who still believe in them, and that these people and their beliefs are still very influencial.

We might get a perfectly balanced society one day, but I seriously doubt this utopia will ever happen!
 

LuvsGurl

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Well as much as we have made leaps and bounds into the idea of equality in many ways we are back sliding or at least stagnating in others. Yes both man and woman are able to have the same job by law. Many times you are encouraged by statistics to have a job because you are the opposite sex/gender. You may even get paid a little more for it, though is this is less likely. How ever though it is higher the glass ceiling still exists for women, well those that plan to marry and have children.

Also we have not changed our ways of thinking for anyone other then those that are over 18.
Go through a toy store and you will see what I mean. In the girls section of Toys are Us I looked the other day for even one business "job" there were none for girls. What did the isle look like? A grocery store. There were more packs of plastic fruits and veggies then I have ever seen in my life and Brand name vacuums in mini size. We have baby dolls to teach child care (your own or others) and a "nurse" kit to help the doctor when the baby is sick.

We have the other side of the store and we find tool kits, race cars, sports equipment. Let us not forget the mass numbers of army toys. But the thing that got me the most is I was looking for building block, to me a nongendered toy but even they were in the boy section.

I am not a "bra burning "F" word" but I do think that before you want to say that we do not have gender stereotypes any more we should look at how parents are raising their children. They are not meaning any harm, but from childhood we are telling girls, look you want to play with dolls it is normal. And boys are told that violence and action are their ways of play.

I know we can always overcome what we are raised as, though think about it as imprinting, if the first thing you know is that you are suppose to like playing with one type of toy, then you are more likely to continue thinking in that manner.

Even peoples perception of babies not even out of the hospital are scued by gender. Doctors have been working on a study placing two same sizes, equal health babies side by side, one make one female. They will then ask each of the four parents what child is larger. 3/4 will tell you that the male child is larger and healthier then the female.

There is even evidence that parents of female babies carry the child more and will do everything to keep her from crying. From infancy females learn crying will get you things, yet male babies are often left to cry himself out, or cry himself to sleep. Males are taught from babies that "boys don't cry". They learn that they will have to find another means to get attention and what they want.

Though keep in mind that what you think of as gender is for our society. There have been societies in the past that have not had the stereotypes. There was a tribe in Africa at one point that before being "Christianized" the women were the warrior and the "macho ones" the men would stay home and work with the children and care for the homes. Gender is relative; it is what we make of it over time.

But here is a passing thought. Think about the language involved in gender.
You have
Man/woman
Widow/widower
Son/ daughter
Bachelor/?
You can not say bacheloret that is what a woman is the night before her wedding
So what is an unmarried woman that is on her own? Maiden? That means she is chaste, Maid? That means she is beyond age of marriage?
So think about what it is that makes us gendered, and how we can be equal when we do not even exist in the language. Even Woman is a subcategory of Man. A lot will have to change yet for true equality. But we are getting there.
 

teddy564339

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I say people should be able to be who they are. There's nothing wrong with a male being "macho" or "masculine" and nothing wrong with a female being "soft" or "feminine". At the same time, there's nothing wrong with the opposite, either...it's ok for boys to be more feminine and girls to be more masculine.

I think what complicates the issue is that there are different professional and social perceptions. A lot of guys may be okay with having a female boss, or they may respect female co-workers in the same way they respect male ones. But most guys probably wouldn't want to date or marry a woman that is just as masculine as they are. Likewise, most girls that I know are attracted to men they feel emotionally safe with, men they view as stronger. Of course there are exceptions to this (and that's not to mention bisexual and gay relationships), but it's still the overall trend that I've noticed.


I think too much is made of gender roles, but at the same time I don't think we'll ever reach the point where they are gone because there are physiological differences between men and women...and they will in turn have an effect on how people view themselves and other people. So until society gets to a point where they biologically make males and females exactly the same in that regard, I don't see how gender roles will ever disappear completely.

So for me...I don't see anything wrong with gender roles themselves. I think the problem is that people can't accept those who step outside of them.
 

IncompleteDude

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The only area where gender roles come into play for me is reproduction. Other than the obvious issue of pregnancy, there are certain mechanical concerns in the bedroom.
 

Fire2box

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First off these are stereotypical gender roles and we all know how common stereotypes really are. Anyways its wrong to say that you can't do something due to gender.

However there are some cases where men will be better then woman and there will be stuff that woman are better at then men.. (don't know if this counts transgenders or sex changes lol)
 
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gender roles are a joke. they are for people living in the distant past and hillbillies. EVERYONE is equal and deserves to be treated that way.
 

Dawes

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This thread inspired me to write a new poem. Contents likely inappropriate for people under 18, but frankly, I don't care. As a wise man once said, "This is a big leagues."

I Work On Cars; You Lay On Your Back

I come home, as greasy as the nasty-ass fat
cooling in the bottom of the blackened pan where you cook home-fries
and slippery-dick surprise
so I can cram it down my throat before I go act like a monkey
with a wrench
ready to bench-****ing-press
a whole '67 Chevy, regardless of how heavy,
just to change the oil and diddle-**** its metallic clitoris
the way you want me to diddle-**** yours
(but unfortunately, you're a fat, ugly doofus
and I'd rather stick my prick in the waittress missing one front
tooth
in the grimy, mildew-covered back-room of the upstate
Hopin' John).

How's that for domestic?

You wear your flowered dress,
and clean up everything that I mess up,
and you flaunt around with your feather-duster and mop,
and cook shit up better than the meals at IHOP,
and when I come home, you give me a lopsided-smile
because you're afraid I'll slap the shit out of you while
calling you a useless fat slob with saggy tits
and laughing
at the red Milk Duds dangling out of your ass
because you've squeezed out going on seventeen kids
that I train to treat their bitches the way I treat mine
(Oh, and by the way, if little Johnny, Jr.
turns out to be a fag
I'll wring your neck and bruise you up something special
since it gives you a reason to wear makeup
and cover up the most pitiful excuse for a descendant of a primate
that I ever had the misfortune of porking).

I hope you get addicted to pills and live a miserable life
you good-for-nothing fat-ass,
because you're a woman, and I'm a man, and I'm supposed to be drunk
and perfect
and you've been made to do everything I tell you.
I lament the fact that you don't have wheels.
But I like riding you anyway.

I beat you because everything is your fault.
_____________________________________________

Regardless of the tone of that poem, I believe we live in a world (at least, in American society) where men and women have every chance to (and should have every chance to) break out of the gender stereotypes set by long generations of past functionality. We are a more open and free society, and we have no right designating specific tasks for one gender or another, for it threatens to delude the freedom of expression, experience, and enterprise that we all, as human beings, have been born to seek.
 

Aidy

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Gender roles still severely exist in todays society. Everyone always just looks in the wrong areas. Yes, women are disadvantaged by lower pay but they also get scholarships to enter male dominated areas, encouraged to work instead of caring for kids, free degrees in engineering.

Now lets look at men hey?

Primary school teaching. If you're a guy go into primary school (grade school) teaching and discover the huge gender barriers. Not in promotion. God no. You are nearly FORCED to move up the ladder. Less than 10% of primary school teachers are men in Australia and less than 2% of early childhood teachers (5 years and under) are men. This doesn't compare to New Zealand where less than 0.5% of men are primary teachers.

Ok, the main reason for that statistic is fear of being called a pedo, but what also is an influence is society considers it a "womans" job.

I know this is about gender roles but still... I'm nearly an expert into men's rights so I have to rant. I apologise in advance.
There is also severe inequality in regards to men in Australia that is reinforced by law and policy.
Women have scholarships only available to people without penises to undergo the training required to be principals.
Principals tried to create a scholarship that gave scholarships to men to undergo primary and early childhood training but got rejected as it was a breach of equal rights.

On Qantas, British Airways, American Airways and other airlines men are BANNED from sitting next to children as they are considered an unnecessary threat.
Revealed: How BA bans men sitting next to children they don't know | Mail Online
Business policy is guided by public opinion and profit. So society brands all men as potential sex offenders. Good job equal rights.

In Australia fathers were only given equal rights to their children in 2006 yet 95% of all family court proceedings favour the mother.

In Australia each day
77 fathers separate from their child's mother.
71 of these 77 fathers will not be living with their children five years later.
52 of these 77 fathers are denied the amount of contact with their children that they desire.
Dads in Distress - Information (We lose five Australian males a day to suicide...)
52 of 77 do not have the amount they desire.
I'll tell you a story about this fact
My friend Ahmed was a stay at home dad looking after his 2 children. In 2006 he caught his wife cheating on him.
They went to family caught for custody of the kids, house and car. He received... a pay out. He got 50k cash but she got the kids, house and car and he still makes payments. The children recently got taken away from her due to her abusing them (neglect) and yet they gave them back to her instead of him even though they were happy, healthy kids. In 2008 they FINALLY gave him back the kids after they found she had beaten them.
The rule of thumb here is that even with equal rights for fathers it has to be extraordinary circumstances for courts to give the dads the kids.

Also the rate of suicide in men has tripled in 30 years, with boys, aged 15-24, (yes i still count myself a boy) kill themselves four times more than a girl the same age. Yet young girls cutting themselves is higher than men and, therefore, receives more government research grants.

Prostate cancer kills the same number of people and affects more people than breast cancer yet received 1/4 of the funding from the Australian government for research.

Ok, back to gender roles.

The affect of gender roles.
This is from my teaching philosophy and if you want the references let me know and I'll send them to you. The male gender role that is reinforced by society is killing boys. Why does the government not research into it? Why does a charity have to? Oh wait... I'm sorry. WOMEN AREN'T HURT BY IT!
Note, I'm not sexist. I also acknowledge the hardships women face. I just can't stand the injustice and the fact that so many boys (CHILDREN) are killed by it.

With the rate of young men’s, 15-24, successful suicides trebling in 30 years, young male suicide now equaling young male road fatalities and young men four times more likely to suicide than a girl of the same age, (Harrison, Moller and Bordeaux, Unknown) this has become a large focus when constructing my teaching philosophy.
Kids Help Line’s (2004) research into this area shows that boys are less likely than girls to talk about their feelings and their problems with only one in four calls to Kids Help Line being from boys. A survey of boys found that 47% of boys never or rarely talked about problems they have and of these boys 43% wanted to talk. Evidence points to the exposure of children to only one, traditional, stereotype of how men should behave and the bottling up of feelings that is associated with this stereotype.
Depression is something that effects children of both genders. Statistics vary from survey to survey but most agree that “around 4% of our children and 8 - 10% of our adolescents may have depression.” (Sawyer et al, 2000)

Women's rights. SCREW women's rights! How about EQUAL rights? Why is there so few "Equal Rights" groups and yet a bloody F*** load of women's rights groups?

Now to the women's role. I believe there is roles that women are usually part of. Society trying to discourage women of going into making the choice of these roles is disgusting. The Australian government has policies in place to "encourage" mother's to enter the work force sooner. Who cares about the kids? Throw them in childcare... it creates more jobs.
One parent should be a stay at home parent if the family chooses and this role should not be less important than another worker in the office. (Should be more so really... it's another life)

Ah screw this. I get angry every time I think of inequality so I'm just going to stop now.
 

Pramrider

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Speaking from a married standpoint, I think it's beneficial for each partner to be able to handle some "traditional" roles normally only done by the other mate in past times. For instance, it's good that the wife knows how to make certain repairs around the house when the husband may be ill or tied up on work deadlines. On the other hand, a husband should be able to fill in with household chores like laundry and cooking when his wife, likewise, may be sick or working a longer day on the job than he is. The more skills each partner brings to the marriage table, the better chance of the marriage being successful and lasting. Rigidly feeling "that's not my job" in the family arrangement when asked to step out of the traditional husband or wife roll and help the other spouse out just isn't the way to achieve a truly happy marriage IMHO, that is.

Each time my wife was pregnant she was very sick for a few months. When she was carrying our first child it wasn't as hard because it was only her and I. When she was carrying our second child she really needed my help to care for our daughter - fixing meals, giving her baths, dressing her, etc. It wasn't a problem for me at all because I knew how to cook before we were married and I always helped care for our daughter even when my wife wasn't feeling so sick.

When I'd be backed up with work due to deadlines needing to be met, many times she'd go ahead and cut the lawn or wash the cars for me. She didn't mind pitching in to help me out either.

Never any rigid gender roles in our household!

EDIT: This thread reminds me of a cute song Burl Ives sung years ago entitled, "I'm The Boss..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hNYgoeFWDQ

~Pramrider
 
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