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Gay Marriage

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MyLastWords

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I don't want to start a fight or anything, but I was just reading another thread where gay marriage was brought up. And I have been wondering myself, about exactly what gay people want.

From my perspective, it seems as if gays want the same rights and recognition as straight people, but straight people - mainly "christians" - don't want gays to be able to marry.

To me the obvious answer would be to call gay marriage something other than marriage which affords all the same rights and privelidges.

So, just wondering if any of the gay people here on ADISC would find this to be acceptable?

*Just realized I put this in the wrong section, so please any mods feel free to move it.
 
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Mako

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I don't want to start a fight or anything, but I was just reading another thread where gay marriage was brought up. And I have been wondering myself, about exactly what gay people want.

From my perspective, it seems as if gays want the same rights and recognition as straight people, but straight people - mainly "christians" - don't want gays to be able to marry.

To me the obvious answer would be to call gay marriage something other than marriage which affords all the same rights and privelidges.

So, just wondering if any of the gay people here on ADISC would find this to be acceptable?

*Just realized I put this in the wrong section, so please any mods feel free to move it.
We call this separate but equal. It's not acceptable. Marriage for all, or civil unions for all.
 

Fire2box

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I don't want to start a fight or anything, but I was just reading another thread where gay marriage was brought up. And I have been wondering myself, about exactly what gay people want.

From my perspective, it seems as if gays want the same rights and recognition as straight people, but straight people - mainly "christians" - don't want gays to be able to marry.

To me the obvious answer would be to call gay marriage something other than marriage which affords all the same rights and privelidges.

So, just wondering if any of the gay people here on ADISC would find this to be acceptable?
It was the mormon's who pumped tons of money into Yes on Prop 8 here in California. It's not just Christians who are against it, there's Mormons, Catholics and tons of other groups/religions against it for religious views.

Also here in California I think gay people can file for civil unions which grants all the same benefits as marriage. Thusly people are only fighting over the word marriage. that's the reason why I don't think marriage should be a legal term anymore.

Just have Civil Unions for everyone wither your gay or not.
 

Milla

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Since I'm not religious, marriage doesn't hold the same "meaning" I suppose. I myself am bi-sexual, and wouldn't mind spending my life with a man if he was the right one for me. Though, I never intend to get married, so I'm not exactly sure what I'm to do about that.

I do however have many gay friends who are christian, my ex-boyfriend Spencer being born and raised a devout Catholic. For them it would mean a lot for a marriage to be allowed, one with religious significance.

If was in charge, not only would disliking David Bowie be punishable with prison time, but all forms of weddings, legal, religious, and other, would be allowed. Their happiness and being together only affects them, and I personally do not see why it makes so many people angry. I understand the religious conviction, but I'm fairly certain that it's not what Jesus was going for.

I also would be the first diaper-wearing, gay-lover having, athiest president, but that is another story.
 

MyLastWords

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But Mako, is marriage not traditionally a religious event? And does homosexuality not fly in the face of just about every religion there is? Why do you want to enter into a ritual that is associated with a group/s who shun you?

I think that Fire2Box probably has a good idea regarding the subject. Civil unions for everybody as far as the law is concerned, turn marriage back into the religious thing it was traditionally. Would that be acceptable for you Mako?
 

mirrored

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I'm particularly heated about this subject, to be honest.

Giving everyone else "Civil Unions" wouldn't solve any problems, because this is as much a social battle as it is a legal one. Legalizing Gay "Marriage" does more than just grant us equal city, state, and federal rights to marriage, but it also sends a sweeping statement that Gay relationships are just as equal and valid as straight ones.

When anti-gay-marriage advocates say that "Gay Marriage is a threat to Traditional Marriage" or that it "undermines it" or "changes the definition of.." thats exactly what they mean. As long as the word "Marriage" is tied to that definition, as well as the hundreds of different rights and benefits latched on to the world, any other word will not be adequate.
 
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Mako

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But Mako, is marriage not traditionally a religious event?
No. Not in the least, marriage LONG predates the religions it's tied too. As well as you have to keep in mind the separation of church and state by the first amendment. Marriage is a legal term, if it were solely a religious term it has no place in law.

And does homosexuality not fly in the face of just about every religion there is?
You don't know many religions then. Abrahamic religions are the main opponents.

Why do you want to enter into a ritual that is associated with a group/s who shun you?
There was similar religious opposition to inter-racial marriage. Should they have just settled with a "oh you can have the same rights, but us god fearing folks don't feel comfortable with you being recognized the same."

I think that Fire2Box probably has a good idea regarding the subject. Civil unions for everybody as far as the law is concerned, turn marriage back into the religious thing it was traditionally. Would that be acceptable for you Mako?
Already mentioned that it wasn't the tradition, but me and him said the same thing. Though I don't see people letting go of marriage.

Personally in my country, we've already legalized gay marriage. Little secret, society didn't collapse.

<Edit> Furthermore, this is beyond them trying to "protect" marriage. You don't see protests against atheists getting married. And surely they're just as wrong in the eyes of their religion as gay marriage.
 

mirrored

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But Mako, is marriage not traditionally a religious event? And does homosexuality not fly in the face of just about every religion there is? Why do you want to enter into a ritual that is associated with a group/s who shun you?

I think that Fire2Box probably has a good idea regarding the subject. Civil unions for everybody as far as the law is concerned, turn marriage back into the religious thing it was traditionally. Would that be acceptable for you Mako?
Marriage was, traditionally, an exchange of property. Not a religious event or a particularly sacred event either. And Civil marriage far predates the sacred hijacking of it.
 

LittleMonster

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There was similar religious opposition to inter-racial marriage. Should they have just settled with a "oh you can have the same rights, but us god fearing folks don't feel comfortable with you being recognized the same."
It's true. Interracial marriage was only legalized in Virginia around 40 years ago.

Here's my view. I support gay marriage because churches have no right to infringe on anyone's political rights. For the record, I'm LDS (a Mormon) and would have voted No on Prop 8. Just because my church says that gay marriage is wrong does not mean that we should impose our values on everyone else.

Anyway, just my opinion.

Oh, and...

It was the mormon's who pumped tons of money into Yes on Prop 8 here in California. It's not just Christians who are against it, there's Mormons, Catholics and tons of other groups/religions against it for religious views.
Mormons and Catholics are Christians, btw.
 
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MyLastWords

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Okay, I just wikipedia'd marriage :D

Given what I have just learned, I don't see a problem with legal marriage. I mean, it would seem to me that most religions have a version of it, but none of them invented it. That being the case, why do you think there is such a problem with this issue?

I mean, let the government make it legal, but each church will decide if gays can get married there. Just because it is recognized legally doesn't mean a church has to recognize it.

So is this what gay people are pushing for then, to be married in the eyes of the law? Does it matter if the church recognizes it?
 
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Okay, I just wikipedia'd marriage :D

Given what I have just learned, I don't see a problem with legal marriage. I mean, it would seem to me that most religions have a version of it, but none of them invented it. That being the case, why do you think there is such a problem with this issue?

I mean, let the government make it legal, but each church will decide if gays can get married there. Just because it is recognized legally doesn't mean a church has to recognize it.

So is this what gay people are pushing for then, to be married in the eyes of the law? Does it matter if the church recognizes it?
Like some have said, there are many devoted Christian homosexuals. So yes, having their marriage recognized by the church would mean alot to them and their beliefs.
 

mirrored

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Like some have said, there are many devoted Christian homosexuals. So yes, having their marriage recognized by the church would mean alot to them and their beliefs.
It should not be written into law for churches to recognize gay marriages. That, unlike making civil marriage legal for homosexual couples, is actually infringing on their rights.
 

Fire2box

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Mormons and Catholics are Christians, btw.
Mormon's and Catholics are NOT Christians.

Mormon is a term used to describe the adherents, practitioners, followers or constituents of Mormonism. The term most often refers to a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), which is commonly called the Mormon Church.

Catholicism is a broad term for the body of the Catholic faith, its theologies and doctrines, its liturgical, ethical, spiritual, and behavioral characteristics, as well as a religious people as a whole.[1] Depending on the understanding of the word "Catholic", it may refer to the doctrine and practice of the Roman Catholic Church, namely the Christians living in communion with the See of Rome.

I am a baptist christian. I am not commanded by either the pope or cult like religion from Utah.
 

chevre

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Mormon's and Catholics are NOT Christians.
You have a very strange view of Christianity. I've heard it argued that Mormons are not Christians because they also have the Book of Mormon, but I've never heard someone argue that Catholics are not Christians. Care to explain?
 

MyLastWords

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I think the main reason Catholics are distanced from Christains is the Pope. And the fact that they pray to Mary. And that in general Catholocism is a very "religious" as opposed to "spiritual" belief system.
 

Fire2box

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You have a very strange view of Christianity. I've heard it argued that Mormons are not Christians because they also have the Book of Mormon, but I've never heard someone argue that Catholics are not Christians. Care to explain?
I'll repost the portion it seems like you did not read. Catholicism is a broad term for the body of the Catholic faith. <_>
 

chevre

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I'll repost the portion it seems like you did not read. Catholicism is a broad term for the body of the Catholic faith. <_>
K, then I guess I should post from the part of the wiki article it seems like you did not read:

The Roman Catholic Church is the world's largest single religious body and the largest Christian church, comprising over half of all Christians (1.1 billion Christians) and one-sixth of the world's population.[23][24] It comprises 23 "particular churches" (also popularly called "rites" in the Official Catholic Directory and on Eastern Church parish websites)[25], all of which acknowledge a primacy of jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome and are in full communion with the Holy See and each other
Btw, wiki = ultimate authority on religion.
 

Roland

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I am for the idea of homosexual Civil Union, which certainly grants equal economic benefits as a hetero couple. Without wanting to sound like a Marxist, but, homosexual marriage rights do boil down to the economic benefits.

Allright, some couples might see it as an added bonding experience to their relationship, but I'm sure they also see the economic side of it. I certainly would.

As for religious union/marriage ? I think it would be impossible to happen, as the church is seperate from the state, and I'm fairly confident not many churches would allow homosexual union.
 
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Maxx

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Could someone just negative rep me so I don't have to bother typing a reply?
 
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