Free Speech Is Dead

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kite

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With the videos of peaceful protests at both the DNC and the RNC it's official that the constitution is nothing more than toilet paper. you may now retext your US history books. cross out constitution and write in sh*tpaper... that is all.
http://www.stimulator.tv/
 

Fire2box

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With the videos of peaceful protests at both the DNC and the RNC it's official that the constitution is nothing more than toilet paper. you may now retext your US history books. cross out constitution and write in sh*tpaper... that is all.
http://www.stimulator.tv/
Free Speech is not dead, these people were protesting and crossing the lines and that's why some force was used in the extreme cases. If free speech was truly dead you would not be able to say pretty much anything at all. If you want to see no free speech at all go to North Korea.
 

kite

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lol, i love you sooo much. don't forget that they have certain areas that they can protest! free speech zones rule!
 

Fire2box

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lol, i love you sooo much. don't forget that they have certain areas that they can protest! free speech zones rule!
::sighs:: the only reason why I am really responding to this is so you don't think you won any battle you may be trying to have with me. Really you can go outside right now and say that you hate McCain, all conservatives, all republicans and nothing will happen, at least not legally. However if you are to loud at this ungodly hour you can get slapped with disturbing the peace.
 

kite

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i never consider any sort of discussion with you a mark in the win or loss column. i'm just trying to bring to the attention of everyone that the essence of our original government is just a dressed up skeleton of itself where politicians like to throw out catch phrases to capture the ADD attentionhood of current day americans in order to win votes to play politics... not actually do a job for the people.
 

Fire2box

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i never consider any sort of discussion with you a mark in the win or loss column. i'm just trying to bring to the attention of everyone that the essence of our original government is just a dressed up skeleton of itself where politicians like to throw out catch phrases to capture the ADD attentionhood of current day americans in order to win votes to play politics... not actually do a job for the people.
That is your view, its not a fact. If it is the least you can do is prove it.
 

Izzy

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I mean, no, it is rather disturbing that there are 'free speech' zones. Regardless of security reasons, the fact that at these political events, the areas that are not-zoned 'free speech' are considered not-free speech is actually quite disturbing. There are always limits, but it sems that our fear of attack has made us not fear attacking our heritage of strong first amendment protection.

Mind you, this isn't saying that we're North Korea. But we have principles to uphold. To deny them and not want to achieve them, seems, well, un-American.
 

Peachy

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lol, i love you sooo much. don't forget that they have certain areas that they can protest! free speech zones rule!
Lol..."Free speech zones" - that sounds like the "protest zones" the Chinese government supposedly set up in some Beijing parks. I always thought people had the right to protest anywhere - at least when I visited the White House in Washington, the president woke up every morning to see a bunch of people camping out in the park opposite his house, protestiong for / against various things.

Over here in Germany, section 8 of our constitution gives "every German the right to assemble peacefully and without weapons". Strangely enough, it does not apply to foreign citizens. Being the organized Germans that we are, demonstrations must be announced to the city authorities well in advance. There's no permission needed, but the police can stop the demonstration if a court believes that people will (1) carry weapons, (2) pose a thread to the public order or (3) will demonstrate for things that are illegal (like Nazi group demonstrations).
However, I'm sure a party congress would qualify as needing special security measures, you that you can't let people demonstrate right by the entrance to the convention center. However, going as far as the city of Denver has gone during the Obama congress wouldn't go down with German law - surely people can have a demonstration in one part of town while the congress is in another. Gives both parties a chance to express their opinion, which is considered a fair deal.

Peachy
 

ShippoFox

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Freedom of speech isn't technically dead, but just look at these articles....

(Even a city councilman was angered by this)
Police raid RNC protest sites in Twin Cities

Secret Service confiscates books & button from Ron Paul delegates | Daily Newscaster

(there may be an Internal Affairs investigation over this one, at least)
Man says police beat, tortured him in jail

Maybe it's all not as bad as it sounds though. I really hope it isn't.
We won't lose freedom of speech overnight and it's not dead yet, but it could very slowly die over the years if things continue at this rate.... maybe it will be 5 years or maybe it will be 100. Let's hope thing's don't continue this way.
 

Dawes

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I mean, no, it is rather disturbing that there are 'free speech' zones. Regardless of security reasons, the fact that at these political events, the areas that are not-zoned 'free speech' are considered not-free speech is actually quite disturbing. There are always limits, but it sems that our fear of attack has made us not fear attacking our heritage of strong first amendment protection.

Mind you, this isn't saying that we're North Korea. But we have principles to uphold. To deny them and not want to achieve them, seems, well, un-American.
Whereas I totally understand this sentiment, Izzy, and I'm a massive supporter of non-censorship and entirely free speech, I totally understand why free speech zones exist and what their purpose is, regardless of the fact that free speech should be applicable everywhere.

Without these designated areas, larger crowds -- the kind prone to being complete dickheads when protesting and speaking out against a cause to which they are adverse -- have a tendency to surge, grow violent, and lose their heads. People are less manageable in a larger group, and they feed off of one another's shitwittery. I don't necessarily think that the designation exists to reduce the chance of attack as much as it does to serve the safety of both parties in a protest. Although it does seem to reduce the strength of protest as a concept, letting protesters exist wherever they may is simply asking for something to happen. Someone is going to get hurt, and it's going to feed the anger and dissent between the two parties.

At the RNC and the DNC, these zones are necessary. If some crazy partisan asshole from one side decided to do something untoward, it's not so much the result of that I'd be afraid of as it is the political aftermath of needing to eliminate his threat. Democrats and Republicans alike would feed off of the shit-slinging they could do if a protester were killed. I could hear it now. "Those closed-minded Republicans gave him no chance -- they just opened up and fired on him when he was just trying to express his views!", or "The Democrats don't like war, so they don't know what a real threat is, so an innocent man gets gunned down outside of their convention for standing up for what he believes!"

Thanks, but no thanks. Give me free speech zones! Until the time comes when large groups of Americans can understand the concept of free speech and not walk all over their freedoms while trying to express them, it's all for our own safety, the safety of the protesters, and the safety of the cause they're protesting that we use these free speech zones.
 

kite

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Whereas I totally understand this sentiment, Izzy, and I'm a massive supporter of non-censorship and entirely free speech, I totally understand why free speech zones exist and what their purpose is, regardless of the fact that free speech should be applicable everywhere.

Without these designated areas, larger crowds -- the kind prone to being complete dickheads when protesting and speaking out against a cause to which they are adverse -- have a tendency to surge, grow violent, and lose their heads. People are less manageable in a larger group, and they feed off of one another's shitwittery. I don't necessarily think that the designation exists to reduce the chance of attack as much as it does to serve the safety of both parties in a protest. Although it does seem to reduce the strength of protest as a concept, letting protesters exist wherever they may is simply asking for something to happen. Someone is going to get hurt, and it's going to feed the anger and dissent between the two parties.

At the RNC and the DNC, these zones are necessary. If some crazy partisan asshole from one side decided to do something untoward, it's not so much the result of that I'd be afraid of as it is the political aftermath of needing to eliminate his threat. Democrats and Republicans alike would feed off of the shit-slinging they could do if a protester were killed. I could hear it now. "Those closed-minded Republicans gave him no chance -- they just opened up and fired on him when he was just trying to express his views!", or "The Democrats don't like war, so they don't know what a real threat is, so an innocent man gets gunned down outside of their convention for standing up for what he believes!"

Thanks, but no thanks. Give me free speech zones! Until the time comes when large groups of Americans can understand the concept of free speech and not walk all over their freedoms while trying to express them, it's all for our own safety, the safety of the protesters, and the safety of the cause they're protesting that we use these free speech zones.
i've never found an instance where a physical police force to subdue a peaceful protest... especially a peaceful one. the police are there for one thing to make sure things don't get out of hand not to start their own fights. you don't club someone in the face who's marching in a protest (YouTube - DNC Protests: Police slam CodePink protester to the ground) to keep peace and restore order. oh and the cops like to get in on their own "protests" as well (YouTube - BUSTED! THESE THREE GUYS ARE COPS EVERYBODY!).
typical american attitude though: peace through violence.
 

ballucanb

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Free speech isn't dead, but is is near death and bleeding badly, Now say thank you Mr. Bush!
 
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i've never found an instance where a physical police force to subdue a peaceful protest... especially a peaceful one. the police are there for one thing to make sure things don't get out of hand not to start their own fights. you don't club someone in the face who's marching in a protest (YouTube - DNC Protests: Police slam CodePink protester to the ground) to keep peace and restore order. oh and the cops like to get in on their own "protests" as well (YouTube - BUSTED! THESE THREE GUYS ARE COPS EVERYBODY!).
typical american attitude though: peace through violence.
In the first video, we have no idea what the protester did prior to being pushed to the ground. For all we know she or he kicked the officer or did something else, just before the camera swung over.

The second video is of something that happened in Canada, which last time I checked was not part of the US. So exactly how does that show a typical American attitude.

If you want to show the US suppressing free speech, then show the US suppressing free speech, and quit trying to confuse the issue by showing other countries that may or may not have free speech violating free speech.

Next you'll be complaining that during the Olympics, China's protest zones were never used, and that some of the people that applied to use them were arrested for applying. And that foreign reporters were thrown out of the country for filming the few protests that did occur.
 
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Bush and McCain should go jump off a bridge, I'll help.

Hm? Weird I was expecting FBI agents to come break through my windows right about now.
 
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Bush and McCain should go jump off a bridge, I'll help.

Hm? Weird I was expecting FBI agents to come break through my windows right about now.
They'll get you tonight while you are sleeping, and make it look like an alien abduction. That way they can torture you and no one will know.
 

Izzy

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Making fun of the fact that people have gotten tortured under the Bush administration and that they have been made to 'go away' at night is not funny.

Most Americans don't have to worry. Some do. That is a failure of the American project.
 

Fire2box

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i've never found an instance where a physical police force to subdue a peaceful protest... especially a peaceful one. the police are there for one thing to make sure things don't get out of hand not to start their own fights. you don't club someone in the face who's marching in a protest (YouTube - DNC Protests: Police slam CodePink protester to the ground) to keep peace and restore order. oh and the cops like to get in on their own "protests" as well (YouTube - BUSTED! THESE THREE GUYS ARE COPS EVERYBODY!).
typical american attitude though: peace through violence.
If you listen to the code pinker you can pretty much tell that she said "****ing do it again!" Also she raised her hands at him even if they were not in a fist stance. Once a school police officer threw me against the back of his squad car since I elevated my hands in the air. He perceived it as a threat to one of my female teachers aids who was trying to clam me down and stop me from walking home from school. The thing is he had every right, are they supposed to wait till they are struck and injured to make a move? Also if code pink is for world peace I suggest they stop using the F word.

As for the cops who tired to incite violence that was their own personal choice and has nothing to do with the national government trying to silence free speech which would be a insane idea anyway. If they wanted free speech gone all these code pinkers would be in jail or worse yet dead.

Oh and Izzy you watched "V For Vendetta" one too many times.
 

kite

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In the first video, we have no idea what the protester did prior to being pushed to the ground. For all we know she or he kicked the officer or did something else, just before the camera swung over.

The second video is of something that happened in Canada, which last time I checked was not part of the US. So exactly how does that show a typical American attitude.

If you want to show the US suppressing free speech, then show the US suppressing free speech, and quit trying to confuse the issue by showing other countries that may or may not have free speech violating free speech.

Next you'll be complaining that during the Olympics, China's protest zones were never used, and that some of the people that applied to use them were arrested for applying. And that foreign reporters were thrown out of the country for filming the few protests that did occur.
with the video about canadien police officers it is shown that police like to instigate violence in a peaceful settings to 'get their blood flowing' if you will. there has been video proof of it in canada and testimony to it happening over in america.
in the case of china, how would people not have used their free speech zone yet get arrested? so i guess the 15 arrested american reporters and protesters don't matter to you. dissent doesn't happen in china. too much cooperate interests to protect over there.
in the case of the code pink woman i'll describe what happened: she was asking why she had to move back the officer pushed her, she asked for him to do it again and he cross checked her in the forehead to the ground.
is police brutality that far out of comprehensible grasp?

If you listen to the code pinker you can pretty much tell that she said "****ing do it again!" Also she raised her hands at him even if they were not in a fist stance. Once a school police officer threw me against the back of his squad car since I elevated my hands in the air. He perceived it as a threat to one of my female teachers aids who was trying to clam me down and stop me from walking home from school. The thing is he had every right, are they supposed to wait till they are struck and injured to make a move? Also if code pink is for world peace I suggest they stop using the F word.

As for the cops who tired to incite violence that was their own personal choice and has nothing to do with the national government trying to silence free speech which would be a insane idea anyway. If they wanted free speech gone all these code pinkers would be in jail or worse yet dead.

Oh and Izzy you watched "V For Vendetta" one too many times.
so i guess the international symbol for surrender translates into beat the crap out of me in cop language?
also, cops have been instructed in doing this by their superiors. in most situations cops don't want to be caught abusing people without reason so they devised a ingenious plan: if the protesters all wear black and cover there face, so shall we, and we will create our reason to beat down the protesters.

epic display of free speech in st. paul!
 
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