Foley catheters and getting a good nights sleep

Bellybag58

Diaper Up!
Est. Contributor
Messages
95
Age
60
Role
Diaper Lover, Incontinent
I've had urge IC since my two heart attacks 3+ years ago. About 5 months later I went to using foley's at night to sleep. The first night was up and down being nervous but the next night I slept for 9 hours straight. After 3 years I can sleep 6-9 hours and feel rested in the morning. No more getting up 4-5 times at night to go pee.

I've also taken to using them during the day at work. I'm not constantly running to the bathroom to pee. I take a day off once a week from using them to keep my body functioning normally. I did try condom caths but they always come off at one time or another. They don't seem to be very reliable for me.

There never seems to be a good convenient place to change diapers when out of the house. I've used them for short trips out when I'm not wearing a catheter. Disposables keep odor down and the cloth with plastic pants are very comforting. When the urge hits, it's great to just relax and go wherever you are. No more running to the rest room or painful cramps.

I'm 60 years old and was wondering if anyone else out there does the same thing?

Thank you for listening and have a great day.

BB
 

ltaluv

Est. Contributor
Messages
160
Role
Diaper Lover, Incontinent
I've used foleys when I've been recovering from procedures, but I'd never thought of taking them out on a regular basis. Does your insurance cover them?

I self-cath 4-6 times a day, and lately I've been getting up multiple times a night to pee. A Foley would be a lot nicer, but I don't know if my doctor would go for it.
 

Bellybag58

Diaper Up!
Est. Contributor
Messages
95
Age
60
Role
Diaper Lover, Incontinent
After researching it on my own for about 3-4 months I made the decision to use foley's on my own. Do it clean, and do it slow. I pay for it on my own online and they're only about $1.25 each. Bedside bags are cheap as well as calf bags for the day.

I change them all out once a week. I've only had 2 UTI's in the past 3 years. Getting a good nights sleep hadn't been so good in years. Now I get 6-9 hours every night without getting up to pee.

I've tried all kinds of disposable and cloth diapers to no avail. There's always the leaking since I have to keep very well hydrated.
 

MarcusP

Est. Contributor
Messages
110
Role
Incontinent
I'm glad you are getting a good nights rest. I personally have used foleys in the past and every single time got a uti. I would only make sure you are aware that people who regularly use foleys are at a much higher risk of getting bladder cancer. That and I once got a really nasty mrsa infection in my bladder that antibiotics didnt cure. I ended up drinking a near toxic level of salt water to finally kick it. Peeing blood is no fun. Be careful with caths!
 

Bellybag58

Diaper Up!
Est. Contributor
Messages
95
Age
60
Role
Diaper Lover, Incontinent
My research tells me that the incidents of bladder cancer with catheters is insignificantly low for those who don't have a SCI. "However, no study has reported the bladder cancer incidence from CIDC in patients without SCIs." Sorry to hear that foley's aren't for you and you have a high infection rate while using them.

MRSA infections are associated with hospital and health care facilities. I like how they put on the gloves first to protect their hands but then start opening all the product packages that are not sterile on the outside. Then they take hold of the catheter and insert it and all the bacteria right up into your urethra. Just watch all the health care videos that show how to insert an indwelling catheter and you'll see what I mean. I know it comes as a shock but they're inherently doing it wrong. This is why +86% of all UTI's are contracted in a medical setting.
 

ltaluv

Est. Contributor
Messages
160
Role
Diaper Lover, Incontinent
Most of the infection risk from a Foley is from having it in for long periods of time. Those of us who do intermittent catheterization rarely get UTIs.

Proper sterile technique for inserting a Foley should NEVER involve touching the outside of a package with sterile gloves - catheter insertion trays include sterile gloves for just this reason. The goal is to create and maintain a sterile field through the entire procedure. If they're not doing that, then they're being sloppy to the point of malpractice.

Many videos show clean (not sterile) technique, v which is different. That's the technique I use to insert catheters, and it's much easier and less involved than sterile technique. Since an in and out cath is only in for a short time, the risk of infection is low. Not sure about a Foley that's going to be in overnight.
 

Bellybag58

Diaper Up!
Est. Contributor
Messages
95
Age
60
Role
Diaper Lover, Incontinent
Most of the infection risk from a Foley is from having it in for long periods of time. Those of us who do intermittent catheterization rarely get UTIs.

Proper sterile technique for inserting a Foley should NEVER involve touching the outside of a package with sterile gloves - catheter insertion trays include sterile gloves for just this reason. The goal is to create and maintain a sterile field through the entire procedure. If they're not doing that, then they're being sloppy to the point of malpractice.

Many videos show clean (not sterile) technique, v which is different. That's the technique I use to insert catheters, and it's much easier and less involved than sterile technique. Since an in and out cath is only in for a short time, the risk of infection is low. Not sure about a Foley that's going to be in overnight.
Some sites and posts suggest and say that intermittent cathing brings on UTI's since they go in and out so often.

Some sites and posts suggest and say that Foley catheters brings on UTI's since they're in for long periods of time.

Two UTI's in three years tells me that I'm doing it right with Foley's. It works for me. The UTI'S came about when I switched to cloth diapers from disposable pull-ups to catch leaks and save long term money. I'm back to the pull-ups and no UTI's.
 

ltaluv

Est. Contributor
Messages
160
Role
Diaper Lover, Incontinent
General consensus in the medical community is that intermittent cathing causes fewer UTIs than long-term Foley use. Since you're taking out the foley on a regular basis, though, I think you're likely much less likely than long-term Foley users to get a UTI.

I agree, with that few UTIs you're doing things right. I may give your approach a try - I bet your getting much better sleep than I am!
 

Slomo

Est. Contributor
Messages
7,252
Role
Adult Baby, Diaper Lover, Incontinent
I've had to use folley catheters quite extensively in the past. My single longest stint being catheterized for over a year straight. The best sleep I've ever gotten was when I had a catheter in. And in over 20 years of using them off and on I never once got a uti that made me sick.

I never bothered with insertion trays or gloves either. Just washing your hands with plain soap really well is all you truly need, though going the extra step to stay even cleaner certainly won't hurt. I've also let my catheter drain into my diaper with out any problems. Just remember to stay well hydrated and the constant flushing will keep infections away.

Italuv, not sure where you got that consensus from, but my previous dozens of urologists all agreed the number one way to get an infection is to have any catheter inserted at a medical center or hospital. The number two way to get a uti is from the insertion in general- not from having it in for up to a month. With intermittent catheterizing you are inserting it much more often, which has a higer risk than with indwelling catheterization. The only saving grace is intermittent is typically done outside the hospital while indwelling is typically done inside the hospital. I had always insisted on inserting my folleys myself at home whenever possible, and is likely part of why I never once had a problem.
 

ltaluv

Est. Contributor
Messages
160
Role
Diaper Lover, Incontinent
Slomo, my concensus comes from discussions with multiple urologists, along with the recommendations of the American Urological Association and the European Association of Urology. I don't know where or when your urologists got their information, but it flies in the face of the standard of care for the past couple of decades.

You see, the problem is not what you think. It's not that you are pushing bacteria from eurethra into the bladder - that is a very minor source of infection, as the urethra is normally sterile and the meatus is cleaned before insertion. An indwelling catheter gets an encrusted biofilm of various types of bacteria within the first day or so that it's in, and this is the source of catheter-associated UTIs. Intermittent catheters do not get encrusted, and thus do not carry this infection risk. Insertion is safe - biofilm encrustation is inevitable and carries most of the risk.

This is also why it is critically important to keep a Foley drainage system closed. Non-sterile opening of the system requires immediate catheter change. Whomever told you that you could safely let a Foley drain it a diaper is guilty of gross malpractice, and you might consider pursuing that in court as you'll have a strong case. That is extremely high risk behavior, and I would urge others not to try it unless they want to end up with a UTI.

I have an uncle who's driven drunk for years and hasn't crashed, so I guess we can either conclude that driving drunk is safe, or that anecdotal evidence is worthless. :smile:
 

Slomo

Est. Contributor
Messages
7,252
Role
Adult Baby, Diaper Lover, Incontinent
Slomo, my concensus comes from discussions with multiple urologists, along with the recommendations of the American Urological Association and the European Association of Urology. I don't know where or when your urologists got their information, but it flies in the face of the standard of care for the past couple of decades.

You see, the problem is not what you think. It's not that you are pushing bacteria from eurethra into the bladder - that is a very minor source of infection, as the urethra is normally sterile and the meatus is cleaned before insertion. An indwelling catheter gets an encrusted biofilm of various types of bacteria within the first day or so that it's in, and this is the source of catheter-associated UTIs. Intermittent catheters do not get encrusted, and thus do not carry this infection risk. Insertion is safe - biofilm encrustation is inevitable and carries most of the risk.

This is also why it is critically important to keep a Foley drainage system closed. Non-sterile opening of the system requires immediate catheter change. Whomever told you that you could safely let a Foley drain it a diaper is guilty of gross malpractice, and you might consider pursuing that in court as you'll have a strong case. That is extremely high risk behavior, and I would urge others not to try it unless they want to end up with a UTI.

I have an uncle who's driven drunk for years and hasn't crashed, so I guess we can either conclude that driving drunk is safe, or that anecdotal evidence is worthless. :smile:
My urologist were at the Mayo Clinic Florida. I, and most the world over, considers them to be the best trained urologists, and most well informed specialists, I've ever met. And I've been unfortunate enough to have me over three dozen (maybe four, I lost count), urologist I can only describe as "quacks".

As for the encrusted film, you are slightly misinformed. That encrusteation is mineral salts and urease producing microbes (not to be confused with bacteria infection causing microbes). This encrusteation is half the reason why a catheter can only be left in place for a month, or it will become clogged.

Though the other half you are absolutely correct about. Yes bacterial biofilms do build up over time, and the more that thin film back ups into the bladder the more likely it is to become infectious. This is why constant flushing is imperative, so as to keep that buildup from forming too early. And as confirmed by my urologists, so long as your catheter is being constantly flushed it doesn't matter if it's an open or closed system because it's always draining out anyways. The old train of though you have been told is actually a bit outdated now. But don't let that get to you, I was once told the same thing by a bunch of old urologist quacks a well. And truth be told I know it has also stuck in part because way too mant people have no idea what well hydrated truly means. As such, they continue to err on the safe side and keep saying it's bad no matter what. Nor can I blame them for that part alone.
 

ltaluv

Est. Contributor
Messages
160
Role
Diaper Lover, Incontinent
Google is your friend. My "outdated" information come from journal articles published in 2017 and 2018. If you have peer-reviewed research you'd like to share, I'd be interested to read it. If it's something some urologist told you, it's anecdotal, v and of limited scientific value.

Now, as for the biofilm encrustation, you are correct that this is a mix of minerals and non-infectious bacteria (microbes, if you prefer that word). Asymtomatic bacteriuria is endemic among catheter users, with a daily risk of 3-7% per catheter day. The key thing to understand is that this biofilm is an ideal growth medium for other bacteria, some of them less innocuous than what initially grows there. This is where the risk factor arises - you have a tube into your bladder, coated inside and out with good stuff for bad bugs to grow on, and the end result is a high risk of infection. Healthcare workers generally go to considerable lengths to keep the system closed to prevent the bad bugs from getting in and beginning to grow, but even with conscienscious care the risk remains high.

The upshot is that there has been a recent push, even in hospital settings, to replace indwelling Foley catheter with intermittent catheterization, because it is safer.

The British Medical Journal published a study earlier this year on this subject. Another study was published in Nursing Times in August of last year. Perhaps your urologist at the Mayo in Florida is spending too much time holding and too little time on continuing education - that's why most practitioners sneer at the satellite Mayo campuses. As a hepatologist friend once told me, "The Mayo Clinic is in Rochester. Everyplace else isn't really the Mayo." One man's opinion, to be sure. :smile:
 

downtide

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,254
Role
Diaper Lover, Incontinent
I've never used foleys to manage my incontinence, only had them following surgery. I've been using ISCs since 2012 and in that time had only 3 UTIs, all of them within the first 2 years. This includes frequently leaving a catheter inserted to drain into a diaper overnight. Still no UTIs from that either. (an ISC used this way tends to work itself out over time so it only works at night when you're not moving around). I never leave one inserted that way for more than about 8 hours (I typically sleep for 6-7 hours).
 

Bellybag58

Diaper Up!
Est. Contributor
Messages
95
Age
60
Role
Diaper Lover, Incontinent
It wasn't my intention to have a "Urologist" swinging contest. As I said (or tried to say) in the beginning, I use them at night to sleep, during the day to manage my work production, and sometimes on weekends if I'm going to be out of the house running lots of errands. Getting up all night to pee, or running to the bathroom can be really frustrating.
 

redhawkpath

Est. Contributor
Messages
46
Role
Incontinent
Hi Bellybag.

I saw that you had 2 UTI's in the past 3 years. I hat to say it but when you take the catheter in is the most problematic for UTI. It is really just better to keep the catheter in and clean for longer periods. Chang out that bag every week. They are cheap so it should not be that much of a burden.

Having OAB I have used catheter for two years and have never had a UTI. I know im rolling the dice but better than.. OH I have to pee then out it comes. I will take a break and use diapers again every once in a while but the catheter has been a better option.
 

willnotwill

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,676
Role
Adult Baby
Foleys are cheap. Even if you buy a whole dedicated tray, you're not spending $10. The catheter itself is under $2. Yeah, the problem comes from them being in place a long time, but usually in hospital (typically bedridden) situations. I'm pretty sure the UTI rate otherwise isn't that bad. Just goes to show you that spending a lot of time in a hospital sucks badly.
 

oscar

Est. Contributor
Messages
47
Role
Diaper Lover, Incontinent, Other
Hi the issue is that bacteria ets into the bladder which is a sterile environment(you can pee on cuts/burns to clean them in fact)
Indwelling has the highest risk as anything that went in is in there "Growing" and there are a number of ways to lessen risks!
One insert yourself so only own bacteria present.
Don't worry so much about emptying fully but more about keeping well hydrated so lessens concentrations.
try to keep air from getting inside bladder as many with just a flip flo valve let it dangle on drainage instead of keeping it level as nearly empty so bladder is pushing it out.
Lessening use of leg bags as cause syphoning damage to bladder walls(Hand over bath plug when emptying trial so feel the suction)
Using Flip flo valves more so can use bladder more like it's meant to be so less of above and blockages/Bacteria growth from dribbling constantly.
(As like a tap with a slow leak will get scale deposits growing)

Sure we have all done things that are "Frowned" up on by medical Mercenaries! I'm just as guilty like having my Foley drain into my washable nappy set overnight often when it's draining plenty and i want to sleep longer instead of waking up to deal with it but next day make sure flushed out.
 

Carnifex

Est. Contributor
Messages
479
Role
Diaper Lover, Incontinent
I had a foley catheter in when I was 15 and I didn't like it at all the feeling that I was peeing constantly was really annoying if it ever happens to me again I will likely ask if I can please just use a diaper even if I have to get mine from home
 

winterheart01

Est. Contributor
Messages
75
Role
Adult Baby, Diaper Lover, Babyfur, Diaperfur, Incontinent
I had foley catheters 13 years ago, they hurt like hell, walking was painfull, going to work with one was painfull, sleeping with one was uncomfortable.
One day I even had a bleeding because I had to hurry to catch a train and the cable to the bag pulled too hard and something inside hurt really bad.
Then a bit after I went in for a TURP and ever since caths are off limits due to traumatized urethra and scar tissue from the surgery.
Only after the TURP or a urethrotomy I have a cath for no longer than 24h.

Once I had to run off to ER for lazy bladder and could not void at all (this was right after a surgery when discharged) and they had to drain it really fast, that too hurt a lot, just by the medic inserting the cath, the whole procedure before was a failure, the area was again damaged, sore and growing scar tissue like mad.

So honestly I cannot recommend these, even if the bladder won't respond at all anymore it's a pain to have them inserted :(
 
Last edited:
Top