Down Syndrome Society wants to be added to endangered species list

WoodlandWanderer

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I thought most people considered less people being born with Down Syndrome to be a good thing?

I mean isn't it a good thing when children don't have to be born to suffer?
So I used to think this, but then I did some more reading, met more people affected, and I've changed my mind.

In developed countries the life expectancy for those with Down Syndrome is now 50-60, which is much higher than it used to be. It's lower because of the higher risk of certain conditions, but there's no universal significant health issue as far as I'm aware. The most noticable difference is the learning disability, which in many cases is manageable and even compatible with some work when combined with sheltered living.

While it might be desireable to reduce the number of severe learning disabilities occurring if we could, the majority of people with severe learning disabilites don't have Down syndrome. Preventing all pregnacies with Downs (even if you agree with abortion in the first place, which several don't of course) isn't substantially going to change the numbers.

The biggest thing for me is this assumption that all people with Down syndrome are suffering - it's not true. On the contrary, many people with Downs are some of the happiest, most bubbly people you could ever meet. It's almost infectious and can lift the mood of the whole room. Remember also that a consequence of intellectual disability is not being able to objectively analyse our quality of life compared to theirs in the same way that you may do and feel sorry for them. They might be partly unaware of the difference and perfectly happy as they are.

To argue that we should eliminate Downs is to directly say that it would be better if those people didn't exist - and that's not an argument I'm comfortable making.
 

BabyTyrant

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Okay, sound points I suppose; but it is still silly that they way they are trying to get more funding is to be added to the endangered species list.
 

dogboy

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I think Down Syndrome is also a spectrum in that some are higher functioning than others. Like the article suggests, some are capable enough to have acting jobs. Others are not as fortunate as they have greater learning problems. We had a down syndrome individual in one of the churches where I used to work, and he could be hard to handle at times. I think he died when he was in his 50s.
 

Lestat

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My half-sister has Down Syndrome. She doesn't want to be treated as an endangered species. She a person, not an animal. She has a job she loves what she does.

If you think people with Down Syndrome are always Happy to go lucky. They do have mood swings like anyone else. My sister has mood swings. It's part of life.

I would rather have money spent to prevent Down Syndrome than a dumb Advocacy Group that think they are a type of animal and should be put on an endangered species list. To them it all about money.

I love my Sister.
 

AnalogRTO

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I do not want to speak to Down's Syndrome being good or bad beyond saying that it can be tough for parents to raise, care for, and make sure there will always be care for a child with Down's Syndrome.

With that said, the idea of children with Down's Syndrome being an entire species on its own is ridiculous. They are part of homo sapiens, and as such are nowhere near endangered. That would be like saying we need to stop vaccinating against polio (or any of the other major diseases we vaccinate against) because it is becoming endangered on our planet.
 

rennecfox

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I think Down Syndrome is also a spectrum in that some are higher functioning than others. Like the article suggests, some are capable enough to have acting jobs. Others are not as fortunate as they have greater learning problems. We had a down syndrome individual in one of the churches where I used to work, and he could be hard to handle at times. I think he died when he was in his 50s.
part of the disorder impacts longevity, 50 is pretty old with the disorder I believe it relates to cardiovascular issues.
 

Makubird

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part of the disorder impacts longevity, 50 is pretty old with the disorder I believe it relates to cardiovascular issues.
Many die of pneumonia and other respiratory problems. Most people with Down also develop early onset Alzheimer's disease and epilepsy.
 

CuddleWoozle

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.......They're people, not animals. That's not what the 'endangered species' list is about.

What are they going to do? Start locking the poor folks up in breeding colonies to boost numbers? Because that's what the list they want to be put on is about. Bringing awareness to conservationists about what species are in danger of being lost to the world and allowing them to set up stud books and breeding programs to bolster numbers.

So. Yeah. That's a really stupid thing for that group to say.

I do think they should get support from wherever they happen to be in the world. But human beings aren't meant to be on the endangered species list.

They're technically not even an endangered -species-. That would be the whole of humanity. It would be a disorder/syndrome being eradicated, not the people affected WITH it.

Also, if you replaced Down Syndrome with anything else...like...I dunno, AIDS or even Smallpox it sounds stupid.

"PUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD POLIO ON THE ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST!"

-_-
 

howiebabe

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What is happening is early detection in the fetus and then selective abortion for genetic abnormalities (not only Downs, but other conditions also).
 

BabyTyrant

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What is happening is early detection in the fetus and then selective abortion for genetic abnormalities (not only Downs, but other conditions also).
Because parents want their children to be born as healthy as possible, so if they know the child will have any medical condition after they are born that will cause the child to suffer greatly in life, and that outcome could be avoided, why would that be considered a bad thing?
 

howiebabe

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Didn't say it was bad or good.

What about if the genetics show a propensity for being overweight, that can have some poor consequences, should the fetus be aborted? Or some other genetic predisposition (not a guarantee, but a higher likelihood)?

While a condition like Downs is not treatable, there are many medical conditions that were deadly in the past are now treatable.

I understand the difficult choice that needs to made when parents are presented with this type of information, but it is a choice.

In some societies where women are considered to be of less value, there have been abortions of a fetus that is female.
 

Lestat

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What is happening is early detection in the fetus and then selective abortion for genetic abnormalities (not only Downs, but other conditions also).
I am fine with that. If the Abortion before the baby heartbeat. I don't think people would want to live a life of always being told NO NO NO you can't do this. All because of their illness. Then adding to family stress.

Yes, a Child or an Adult being taught early in life. You can be anything in the world. And when the real-life hits. You get oh no because your Disability you can't do that.

- - - Updated - - -

Didn't say it was bad or good.

What about if the genetics show a propensity for being overweight, that can have some poor consequences, should the fetus be aborted? Or some other genetic predisposition (not a guarantee, but a higher likelihood)?
Grow a brain. If that a problem it could be controlled by Healthy food Not FAT foods I mean Fast foods. It can be controlled.

While a condition like Downs is not treatable, there are many medical conditions that were deadly in the past are now treatable.
Ya But even Treatable conditions you are still limited. I have Epilepsy I can't do what I want to do. No one wants me to fly a plane or drive a bus or Truck. My Seizures are controlled. I can not do what I want to do.

I understand the difficult choice that needs to made when parents are presented with this type of information, but it is a choice.
You know it might be a choice. But do you want to have a normal life or have a life limited life and be told you can't do it?
In some societies where women are considered to be of less value, there have been abortions of a fetus that is female.
We don't need a human right in this topic. So let stop with Woman are of less value.
 

CuddleWoozle

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I think it was just being stated as a fact, not as a topic of discussion. ;) It's more or less a discussion about eugenics.

And the fact is that many people will abort a perfectly healthy fetus due to outside factors. IE: Unable to afford care to give birth/unable to care for the child after birth, unwillingness to add a child to an already burdened adoption system, just plain disinterest. The reasons are extremely varied and I don't feel this is the topic to debate whether or not these people are 'right' in their thinking.

And there are just as many who find out they will have a child with Down syndrome and go ahead and have the child to give them a shot.

I watched a guy go into seizures where I work. His were controlled, he was taking meds for them and BAM. It hit him out of nowhere. *shrugs* If you've got something like epilepsy it's good that you have them controlled, but it would be irresponsible to operate a vehicle if there were the slightest chance you could have one. (I know, I know, you're going to tell me that you'll NEVER have another one, and I do really and honestly hope that you're right!)

On the topic, though, Down Syndrome isn't like seizures because it can't be changed with medication. It's more akin to being born without a limb, something that can be helped a little, but no amount of medication is going to cure.

It's silly to WANT to have it, though or to DESIRE having a child with it. If you end up having a child with the syndrome? Ok. Love them, take care of them, be their best advocate and supporter.

I honestly feel this is a PR stunt to raise awareness for their needs for housing/transportation and such and not an honest-to-goodness "Put us on the endangered species list" bid.

(I also popped this reaction up: https://psmag.com/education/people-with-down-syndrome-arent-endangered-animals )
 

w0lfpack91

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Being someone who deals in wildlife rehabilitation, I've had a lot of experience with the endangered species regulations, and trust me when I say people with down syndrome will not survive being placed on the endangered species list. Once on it, it becomes a federal felony to interfere with them, any contact could result in years of prison time. Endangered species protections only work for able bodied animals with natural survival instincts. No human could survive the restrictions placed on them entering the list.



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