Do you apply for vat exemption when not incontinent?

[InstantlyWet]

Okay, so I'm about to buy my first set of nappies from nappiesrus and it asks me at the checkout if I want to do vat exemption. Now of course I'd like the money off, so is there any way that they can find out I'm lying? What does everyone else do?

 

[Honeywell6180]

Okay, so I'm about to buy my first set of nappies from nappiesrus and it asks me at the checkout if I want to do vat exemption. Now of course I'd like the money off, so is there any way that they can find out I'm lying? What does everyone else do?

Do you have any diagnosis? If you are on the autism spectrum, that should qualify you for the exemption.

 

[theancientmariner]

What is vat exemption?

 

[Hammerite]

I am not a tax lawyer and I am not competent to give you tax advice, and won't attempt to do so. When I have ordered diapers for my own use I have paid the VAT on them, because I do not have a need for them that stems from any kind of incontinence or other disability. The rules seem to make it clear that VAT exemption would be against the rules in my case, and I operate under the assumption that it's not a good idea to get in trouble with the taxman. In particular, these provisions in the linked page seem to suggest that requesting the tax be taken off is a legal declaration, and I presume you could get in trouble for making it. How likely it is that you would be investigated, I can't say.

3.2 Supplies to disabled people
You can only zero rate supplies to disabled people when the:

• person is ‘chronically sick or disabled’
• goods or services are eligible for VAT relief – see section 4
• goods and services are bought or acquired for their personal or domestic use – see paragraph 3.4

3.2.1 What ‘chronically sick or disabled’ means
A person is ‘chronically sick or disabled’ if they are a person with a:

• physical or mental impairment which has a long-term and substantial adverse effect on their ability to carry out everyday activities
• condition which the medical profession treats as a chronic sickness, such as diabetes

3.9 Use and misuse of declaration forms
A declaration is only a statement that your customer is entitled to get zero-rated goods and services and what they will use them for. It does not mean that the goods and services themselves fulfil all the conditions for zero rating.

You can ask for further evidence of eligibility to support your customer’s declaration. If you believe an eligibility declaration to be inaccurate or untrue, do not zero rate your supply. You should also take care that procedures, forms and literature do not encourage or lead customers to make such a declaration. There are penalties for knowingly accepting false declarations and for fraudulent evasion of VAT.

 

[tiny]

If you're not chronically disabled and incontinent, you are not eligible for VAT exemption... However sales of 200 or fewer disposable diapers/pads for personal use should be zero-rated for VAT on the shelf. The zero-rating does not apply to clothes (onesies, etc.) or accessories (wipes, lotions, etc.) -- any order containing such items will render all items chargeable for VAT, unless you are VAT exempt.

VAT Exemption

Advice and information about VAT exemption and eligibility on purchases of incontinence products.

www.allaboutincontinence.co.uk

There's a lot of confusion due to the ambiguity and vaguely contradictory nature of official HMRC advice on the issue. Clearly no one considered ABDLs! However, I think you can legitimately zero-rate diapers so long as you are honest in any declaration you make.

 

[Hammerite]

If you're not chronically disabled and incontinent, you are not eligible for VAT exemption... However sales of 200 or fewer disposable diapers/pads for personal use should be zero-rated for VAT on the shelf. The zero-rating does not apply to clothes (onesies, etc.) or accessories (wipes, lotions, etc.) -- any order containing such items will render all items chargeable for VAT, unless you are VAT exempt.

VAT Exemption

Advice and information about VAT exemption and eligibility on purchases of incontinence products.

www.allaboutincontinence.co.uk

There's a lot of confusion due to the ambiguity and vaguely contradictory nature of official HMRC advice on the issue. Clearly no one considered ABDLs! However, I think you can legitimately zero-rate diapers so long as you are honest in any declaration you make.

That's interesting. The page I linked also makes reference to the 200 number. NRU doesn't remove the VAT even if you are ordering much fewer items than that, and it seems like they want a declaration no matter the quantity. I wonder if NRU is just being a lot more conservative than this other business. Like you say, the messaging from HMRC is not consistent at all.

 

[bobbilly]

I never pay VAT. I have a chronic disability called Schizoaffective disorder. The antipsychotics can cause incontinence. All the times I have purchased incontinence nappies from either nappiesRus or Dorsetnursing supplies I have always ended schizoaffective disorder and never had any problems not paying VAT, that including purchasing more then 200 nappies at a time.

 

[SAPexpanded]

How much does 1 order have to be before a 20% bulk discount would apply? 20% being the VAT rate. Just a thought.

 

[Steve2011]

Products solely used to treat or aid a disability are generally accepted for VAT exemption for personal use. You do not have to be registered disabled. The important thing is that the item is being used for personal use and not for use in an institution or for resale.

About NRU - NappiesRUs

www.nappiesrus.co.uk

Basically it is a gray area, as long as it is for personal use and under 200 pads just put reason for vat exception to personal use and it should be fine.

 

[tiny]

Products solely used to treat or aid a disability are generally accepted for VAT exemption for personal use. You do not have to be registered disabled. The important thing is that the item is being used for personal use and not for use in an institution or for resale.

This is true, but they must also be sold solely for the purpose of treating a CHRONIC disability. An exception is for <=200 disposable pads/diapers that should be zero-rated on the shelf without needing a declaration.

 

[Fandangobob]

Has anyone got the guts to phone hmrc and just ask base i feel that would be the best way to know, but i dont think i could bring myself to do it.

 

[bobbilly]

Has anyone got the guts to phone hmrc and just ask base i feel that would be the best way to know, but i dont think i could bring myself to do it.

on nappiesRus website they allow VAT relief if nappies are for personal use.

 

[charliewilson]

If you are not disabled or chronically ill please don’t. The VAT exemptions is for those people for a reason... My mum once got a letter and she needed to proof my status after ordering a few things after moving which added up to a couple thousand pounds.. of course that is a different dimension. But if you get cought - good luck. i’m not sure if anyone will actually check just for nappies but if you keep doing that, it might happen. But you shouldn’t take advantage of a system that isn’t for you. if it is, no need to ask.
But if loads of people do that, that is the reason why things like that will be cancelled at some point and if you actually need medical things or other things to help you cope with life that VAT exemption is really good to have cuz it’s super expensive no matter what

 

[bobbilly]

I've been applying the VAT relief for all my purchases for over 20 years. Even before I was diagnosed with a chronic mental illness. HMRC are not bothered if they are for personal use. I've never been questioned - Ever - even when purchasing over 200 nappies at one time.

I'm pretty sure if they ask you could get around you needing nappies not for IC related reasons but for Attachment issues. Attachment disorder is a legitimate disorder and will explain why you need nappies for emotional needs/well being. I think large proportion of AB/DL could have Attachment issues.

 

[Fandangobob]

If you are not disabled or chronically ill please don’t. The VAT exemptions is for those people for a reason... My mum once got a letter and she needed to proof my status after ordering a few things after moving which added up to a couple thousand pounds.. of course that is a different dimension. But if you get cought - good luck. i’m not sure if anyone will actually check just for nappies but if you keep doing that, it might happen. But you shouldn’t take advantage of a system that isn’t for you. if it is, no need to ask.
But if loads of people do that, that is the reason why things like that will be cancelled at some point and if you actually need medical things or other things to help you cope with life that VAT exemption is really good to have cuz it’s super expensive no matter what

Im only mentioning it becase nappies you buy in chemists ect dont have vat on them, napies in particular (apart from other products with vat relife) should not have vat on when you buy them in the first place (provided you buy less than 200 for your own use) so it irritates me that places like abu ask you to fulfil the criteria for vat exemption when so far as i understand thats not requiered when buying nappies spesificaly, atm i dont get the vat off but it would be an idea to clarify if what i belive to be the case is true, if it is i would just fill out the form to say its less that 200 for my use.

 

[tiny]

Has anyone got the guts to phone hmrc and just ask base i feel that would be the best way to know, but i dont think i could bring myself to do it.

I can't remember the specifics, but... There was a confusing tax situation, and people wrote the HMRC for clarification. These people followed HMRC advice to the letter, and were later prosecuted by the HMRC. Apparently the HMRC had reviewed and reinterpreted the law. The advice they gave was not legal advice. (Anyone else remember the story -- I think it was to do with offshore tax loopholes...?)

HMRC have a history of giving bad advice and relinquishing themselves of all responsibility.

 

[Fandangobob]

I can't remember the specifics, but... There was a confusing tax situation, and people wrote the HMRC for clarification. These people followed HMRC advice to the letter, and were later prosecuted by the HMRC. Apparently the HMRC had reviewed and reinterpreted the law. The advice they gave was not legal advice. (Anyone else remember the story -- I think it was to do with offshore tax loopholes...?)

HMRC have a history of giving bad advice and relinquishing themselves of all responsibility.

Wonderful, that sounds very helful of them

 

[KaleidoscopeKitty]

If you’re buying for yourself then you can just put ‘personal use’ in the VAT exemption box. I have never had any issues writing that in. I do have several mental health diagnosis’s and wearing nappies helps with these but it’s not what I put on the form.

If you’re buying to resell or because you own an ABDL nursery etc then you would be required to pay VAT but all medical aids should be exempt from VAT when bought for personal use and you don’t necessarily need to prove a diagnosis of a chronic condition.

 

[WeakEndPartyPerson]

Morally you shouldn't.

 

[chiaochai]

as an incontinent person, i really dont care whether or not you pay extra for the vat. as long as its something that you wont get called on, go for it