Difficulty speaking out

CookieDoughReindeer

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I need some help please. I am an active member of the otokonoko community (for those that don't know it translates loosely to male daughter in Japanese, and is where I act as a girl and like to enjoy wearing clothes designed for them, and acting as them.)

My job ACTIVELY hates gays and those people who enjoy sissy side of things and any time there is a drag show, rally an army of people (quite litterly) to go down to city hall cause ruckus and then go to the event and cause even more havvock.) At my meeting last week one of the administration leaders gave a surprising statement suggesting that I go up on stage during the event and in city hall to speak against everything.

Keep in mind I LIVE AT MY JOB. meaning I cannot risk saying the wrong thing at risk for further issues, but I too cannot turn against the sissy and gay community by rallying against them for the sake of impressing my boss. After hearing this I lost composure at the end of the meeting and went back to my unit and broke down.

I have a serious choice to make, but I can't find it in my heart to talk against something I do myself. What do I have to do? It is two weeks before this event.
 
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That is a hard choice, sorry to hear you stuck. Its great been who we are, but not always easy. But I had to put my career first to be able to live this way. I would say if you had another job speak out, or start lookinh for another job where you are able to be comfortable.
 
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What a horrible situation to be in, and very toxic. I agree with Poobear that it would be healthy if you could find another job. If you're not able to summon the courage to refuse (and I don't blame you one bit), maybe a last resort would be to make yourself unavailable for some reason. Maybe be "ill" on that day or have some "emergency" come up?
 
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Usually I tell people not to put their livelihoods in danger. I don't want anyone at risk of becoming homeless or unable to pay medical bills.

This situation is different, in that your work actively wants you to cause harm to others. It's one thing to lie about being part of a community (which I don't think is inherently immoral if it means protecting yourself), but harming the community to protect yourself just isn't moral.

I'm so sorry. It's a terrible position to be in. You don't deserve this.

I hope you can keep your job as long as you need to, but I also hope you don't do what they are asking.
 
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Most people have to live a double or triple life so to speak. My parents are/were hardcore right wing Christians. You do what you have to do I think, although I know it's tougher for some more than others. Just think of yourself as an actor or actress at times, that's always helped me.
 
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The decision is clear, go find another job, don't spoil thyself staying with them.
 
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I have a different perspective. Simply stand up and tell whoever it is that wants you to do this that you're not interested. When they ask why you can get under their skin by turning their bible thumping into a weapon to use against them. "Do unto others as you would have them do to you" and the many, many similar statements that are physically IN THE BIBLE. That ought to do the trick. You might have to read up on the bible OR Google it, but I know you can come up with at least a dozen reasons to argue this while seeming like a radical religious zealot yourself.

NOTE: I do NOT have ANY issue with religion of ANY kind, so long as that religion isn't promoting killing "non believers" OR tries to SHAME people into "conforming". Religion that HATES is NOT religion!!!!!

I was an altar boy until I graduated HS but I served under one hell of an incredible man/priest who truly and sincerely had a large positive influence on the man I became. Trouble is, after serving under him for 8 or 9 years I was SHOCKED when I began going to church and all the priests could do is recite verses and INSIST you give to the Church until it HURT! These churches also had some of the worst scum as church elders....mafia members, wealthy people who would screw you for every red cent they could...you name it. I became so disillusioned with "the" church that my religious beliefs and faith are 100% personal and internal. I certainly have MY faith, but I hardly ever speak of it, mention it etc. unless asked or when responding to something like this.

The "religious right" in the US is so far out of their minds and are ANYTHING other than "good" Christians that it's truly laughable. Unfortunately, you're right in the "Bible Belt" and this will likely be something you have to deal with so long as you live in the belt. I'd seriously consider moving to somewhere where this is a non issue.
 
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loadedpamperman said:
I have a different perspective. Simply stand up and tell whoever it is that wants you to do this that you're not interested. When they ask why you can get under their skin by turning their bible thumping into a weapon to use against them. "Do unto others as you would have them do to you" and the many, many similar statements that are physically IN THE BIBLE. That ought to do the trick. You might have to read up on the bible OR Google it, but I know you can come up with at least a dozen reasons to argue this while seeming like a radical religious zealot yourself.

NOTE: I do NOT have ANY issue with religion of ANY kind, so long as that religion isn't promoting killing "non believers" OR tries to SHAME people into "conforming". Religion that HATES is NOT religion!!!!!

I was an altar boy until I graduated HS but I served under one hell of an incredible man/priest who truly and sincerely had a large positive influence on the man I became. Trouble is, after serving under him for 8 or 9 years I was SHOCKED when I began going to church and all the priests could do is recite verses and INSIST you give to the Church until it HURT! These churches also had some of the worst scum as church elders....mafia members, wealthy people who would screw you for every red cent they could...you name it. I became so disillusioned with "the" church that my religious beliefs and faith are 100% personal and internal. I certainly have MY faith, but I hardly ever speak of it, mention it etc. unless asked or when responding to something like this.

The "religious right" in the US is so far out of their minds and are ANYTHING other than "good" Christians that it's truly laughable. Unfortunately, you're right in the "Bible Belt" and this will likely be something you have to deal with so long as you live in the belt. I'd seriously consider moving to somewhere that this is a non issue.
I spent the vast majority of '19 in Tn helping my best friend get a handle on his gold mine of a business that had lost money in 2 of the previous 3 years despite being incredibly lucrative. I exceeded expectations on that front and was paid quite handsomely for doing so. I know how to "play the game" though, and down there you absolutely HAVE TO IF you want to succeed. I can't tell you how many times a potential customer would instantly speak of Jesus or something else one has to accept hearing in those types of areas and when they asked if you believe in XXX (whatever) and I'd respond with exactly what they want to hear with a smile on my face.

The other thing that was a HUGE eye opener was that every business we were in competition against that USED religion on the sides of their box trucks, invoices, even uniforms were the absolute BIGGEST rip off artists I've ever seen outside of the automotive/truck industry! I had to look at 5 houses that were built/owned by Habitat for Humanity not far out of Centerville, Tn. They all had horrific water issues in the crawlspaces and a ton of mold on all of the wood despite not being 2 years old yet. These were some of the WORST crawlspaces I've had to inspect, devise a way to resolve ALL of the issues, draw it up and price it out. This is NOT a 5 minute event and only because this was for Habitat for Humanity did I waive the inspection/estimate fee. The inspection & estimate fee was instantly credited to the work to be performed once they hired his company for the work anyway but I waived it because it's the right thing to do in that situation. I noticed that each crawlspace HAD a sump pump in the middle of the swamp of each but there were no drain tile to take the water from where it came in to the pump and the pump discharge was pumping all of the water it sucked out right on the outside of the foundation, allowing all of the water to come right back in. Nor were any of the gutters extended, down-grade from the foundation to draw off as much water as possible. In many cases simply relocating the down spout outlets down grade of a foundation resolves 90% of the water issues that foundation has. When I saw the receipts I damn near died though. This particular company has a huge cross on each side of their crew trucks with different bible verses on each side, on each truck. They charged this company almost 50% MORE than we were charging (normal prices, mind you) than we did to do each job PROPERLY! This came out to close to $5000/building but included digging down below the footer inside of 2 walls that faced up slope (where the water is coming in, this requires physically hand digging down anywhere from 18" to several feet using shovels, jackhammers and BRUTE force) and once you get down below the footer you pour in several inches of washed 3/4" stone, add 4" drain tile (PVC pipe with holes all around it the entire length of each pipe) and cover the drain tile with a "sock" (synthetic cloth like material that prevents dirt from entering and eventually clogging the drain tile) then dig down a hole large enough for a large bucket (sump sits inside), connecting the drain tile (pipes) to said bucket, taking the discharge from the pump (via PVC pipe with a check valve so it can't drain back into the tub) all the way down slope from the foundation and allow it to discharge through a pop-up valve that sits flush to the ground a minimum of 12' down slope from the foundation. In some cases this requires going up to a couple hundred feet from the foundation in order to discharge the water at a point where it physically can't drain back towards the foundation. We also have to spray a fungicide on every square inch of board, wipe it all down & repeat until you removed as much mold as is humanly possible. You then have to install a super duty vapor barrier on the entire "floor" so that you're removing as much moisture from the atmosphere as is feasible. To do this 100% properly you also seal all vents, tape all the seams of the vapor barrier (we used a reinforced 24 mil barrier that cost over $800 for a 12' wide roll that weighs over 1000lbs), bring the vapor barrier 18-24" up the walls, mechanically fasten it to the walls and caulk (synthetic sealer that's impervious to moisture and won't deteriorate) the entire top of the vapor barrier to the walls so there's no way possible moisture (or especially water) can get from below the barrier to above and in the crawl space. You finish this off with a dehumidifier (they opted to not go with dehumidifiers as they add close to $2k to the job with installation) that drains into the sump.

They paid well over $7k/house for a friggen sump pump in a 5 gallon bucket with holes drilled all around the circumference stuck in the middle of the damn "floor" with NO PIPES, no drain tile to take the water as it entered the foundation to the sump. The vents were wide open, the sump was draining right back on the foundation as the discharge was 3" off of the wall outside the foundation, they used painter plastic as a vapor barrier and it didn't even reach the walls!! When the guy in charge of authorizing the work/paying us he told me he went with the "other company" because they told him they're very religious and would "do the right thing" for 50% what they "normally charge"! WHAT A ********* JOKE!

This company is also "out of business" every 2 years, like clockwork, and has done so for as long as my best friend has been in business (over 20 yrs). They come back with a different name every single time. By doing this the "warranties" their customers THOUGHT they had are null and void!!!

I was in business myself, along with my Father for over 20 years. I can honestly say I NEVER screwed anyone over. I know we were amongst the more expensive places one could go, but you got what you paid for and we stood behind everything we did. We won "best garage" in the area 18x overall from a local newspaper reader's poll. We were ALWAYS booked 5-7 days in advance yet the ONLY advertising we did was almost exclusively "word of mouth". I also bought "ads" in 2 school district's wrestling programs as I sponsored wrestling and youth football. With youth football you sometimes got a sign on the fence, sometimes not. I didn't do it for the business as we couldn't physically handle anymore than we did. We had 3 highly educated/experienced/certified to the max mechanics and 1 other who did all of the small jobs that would only slow the rest of us down. We didn't have room to expand, either. What I wouldn't give to have never wound up disabled and able to keep doing what I truly LOVE. Selling the garage STILL pains me to this day and it's been gone for almost a decade.

Sorry for the BOOK rant....just hate how people use religion to "verify" their beliefs yet at the core are doing exactly what the bible teaches people NOT TO DO! They're some of the worst offenders on Earth!
 
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CookieDoughReindeer said:
I need some help please. I am an active member of the otokonoko community (for those that don't know it translates loosely to male daughter in Japanese, and is where I act as a girl and like to enjoy wearing clothes designed for them, and acting as them.)

My job ACTIVELY hates gays and those people who enjoy sissy side of things and any time there is a drag show, rally an army of people (quite litterly) to go down to city hall cause ruckus and then go to the event and cause even more havvock.) At my meeting last week one of the administration leaders gave a surprising statement suggesting that I go up on stage during the event and in city hall to speak against everything.

Keep in mind I LIVE AT MY JOB. meaning I cannot risk saying the wrong thing at risk for further issues, but I too cannot turn against the sissy and gay community by rallying against them for the sake of impressing my boss. After hearing this I lost composure at the end of the meeting and went back to my unit and broke down.

I have a serious choice to make, but I can't find it in my heart to talk against something I do myself. What do I have to do? It is two weeks before this event.

Wow, what a horrible situation to be in. Please do not take the following as any kind of advice, legal or otherwise.
I'm just going to muse a little bit, and ask myself how I might deal with that.
I would make a plan to quit ASAP. I'm assuming you haven't found another job already. That sucks, but I think I would need to prioritize leaving this one, no matter what.
But first I would want to hurt the bigots as much as possible. In the USA at least, what you describe the company doing is illegal discrimination. Check with a lawyer. If the answer is no, it's legal, then explore other avenues with the lawyer - do I have any other legal protections, is there anything I should do to protect myself? If I leaked confidential documents, would I be protected legally? That sort of thing.

Maybe there's an organization that could help. Government, or someone in the media? I wouldn't talk to the police.
Failing that I would just throw an angry fit while walking away from the job, damn the consequences. I would make sure to protect myself legally, make sure it doesn't look like I might have assaulted anyone or broken anything.

I've had bad jobs I hated that I eventually just stormed out of, but they weren't nearly as bad as the situation you describe above. Things turned out fine for me, but I got help from family and friends.

Even with my current job, at one point I got fed up and gave my managers a deadline to fix things, after which I was 100% prepared to leave without even having another job lined up. They did fix things so that's good, but I had some savings then so I would have been fine for a little bit. I'm guessing you don't have any savings.

I'm not the one that would have to live with the consequences. I think I would still do it. Even if it meant being homeless.
Then again I'm really impulsive when it comes to injustice.
 
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A boss telling you to take a political position doesn't sound legal to me. Do you have an HR department? If not, I wouldn't hesitate to keep a lawyer informed as to what is going on and document everything. I work as a church musician and my church never takes political positions. Why would an employment establishment? It sounds like you work in Florida.
 
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dogboy said:
A boss telling you to take a political position doesn't sound legal to me. Do you have an HR department? If not, I wouldn't hesitate to keep a lawyer informed as to what is going on and document everything. I work as a church musician and my church never takes political positions. Why would an employment establishment? It sounds like you work in Florida.
I work in Florida and yes. I work in a church that is where it is happening. I'm trying to keep quiet to precisely where do I don't get repercussion but thank you everyone to the point of views all these really matter, it was spoken again on stage tonight which was difficult too. I got it recorded but I don't want to share it perhaps as a personal record for thee future of what was said
 
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Do you regularly speak on stage about other stuff? If not can you use something like stage fright as an excuse without having to explain that you morally object to the content of what they want you to say?
 
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I wonder if there is a gentle way of guiding your boss and coworkers toward better and more loving behavior.

"Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." (John 8:7)

"Therefore you have no excuse, O man, whoever you are, when you judge another; for in passing judgment upon him you condemn yourself." (Romans 2:1)

"The King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’" (Matthew 25:40)
 
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CookieDoughReindeer said:
I work in Florida and yes. I work in a church that is where it is happening.
That’s a tough situation, and you have my sympathies. Given that you’re being pushed to speak, I’ll guess that the church you work for would claim you as a “ministerial exception” to anti-discrimination laws, but maybe I’m wrong about that. Churches, as you probably know, have a lot of leeway in these matters that businesses and other nonreligious entities do not. That’s because members of a church’s ministry are broadly exempt from anti-discrimination protections, and at the same time churches can claim that pretty much anybody working for them is part of the ministry. What defines a church’s “ministry” is totally up to that church.

If you’re able to consult an attorney, you might do that just to see where you stand legally, but I fear it will come to a choice between exiting gracefully and becoming a martyr of sorts. This would obviously be a very different story if you worked for Walmart.
 
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loadedpamperman said:
I have a different perspective. Simply stand up and tell whoever it is that wants you to do this that you're not interested. When they ask why you can get under their skin by turning their bible thumping into a weapon to use against them. "Do unto others as you would have them do to you" and the many, many similar statements that are physically IN THE BIBLE. That ought to do the trick. You might have to read up on the bible OR Google it, but I know you can come up with at least a dozen reasons to argue this while seeming like a radical religious zealot yourself.

NOTE: I do NOT have ANY issue with religion of ANY kind, so long as that religion isn't promoting killing "non believers" OR tries to SHAME people into "conforming". Religion that HATES is NOT religion!!!!!

I was an altar boy until I graduated HS but I served under one hell of an incredible man/priest who truly and sincerely had a large positive influence on the man I became. Trouble is, after serving under him for 8 or 9 years I was SHOCKED when I began going to church and all the priests could do is recite verses and INSIST you give to the Church until it HURT! These churches also had some of the worst scum as church elders....mafia members, wealthy people who would screw you for every red cent they could...you name it. I became so disillusioned with "the" church that my religious beliefs and faith are 100% personal and internal. I certainly have MY faith, but I hardly ever speak of it, mention it etc. unless asked or when responding to something like this.

The "religious right" in the US is so far out of their minds and are ANYTHING other than "good" Christians that it's truly laughable. Unfortunately, you're right in the "Bible Belt" and this will likely be something you have to deal with so long as you live in the belt. I'd seriously consider moving to somewhere where this is a non issue.
Beware with this kind of situations, they don't actually care about Jesus' principles, they've intolerance in the inner part of themselves. If thou triest to defend any side different from theirs, thou'lt be "the weird" and they'll mark thee as "deviated" as well, even if thou artn't into it.

Furthermore, they can even take actions to force him quit job or directly fire him (it's very different to have an interview while thou hast a job than when thou losest it).
 
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Cottontail said:
Given that you’re being pushed to speak, I’ll guess that the church you work for would claim you as a “ministerial exception” to anti-discrimination laws, but maybe I’m wrong about that. Churches, as you probably know, have a lot of leeway in these matters that businesses and other nonreligious entities do not. That’s because members of a church’s ministry are broadly exempt from anti-discrimination protections, and at the same time churches can claim that pretty much anybody working for them is part of the ministry. What defines a church’s “ministry” is totally up to that church.
This is an important point. Don't count on anti-discrimination law to help in this situation.

Hemix said:
Beware with this kind of situations, they don't actually care about Jesus' principles, they've intolerance in the inner part of themselves. If thou triest to defend any side different from theirs, thou'lt be "the weird" and they'll mark thee as "deviated" as well, even if thou artn't into it.

Furthermore, they can even take actions to force him quit job or directly fire him (it's very different to have an interview while thou hast a job than when thou losest it).
This is a real risk.

I think the bottom line is that the OP needs to get another job, ASAP. Maybe it's worth saying something to the church leaders about the reasons for leaving on the way out the door. But it's prudent to get another job first.
 
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Hemix said:
Beware with this kind of situations, they don't actually care about Jesus' principles, they've intolerance in the inner part of themselves. If thou triest to defend any side different from theirs, thou'lt be "the weird" and they'll mark thee as "deviated" as well, even if thou artn't into it.

Furthermore, they can even take actions. to force him quit job or directly fire him (it's very different to have an interview while thou hast a job than when thou losest it).
True and its sad
 
CookieDoughReindeer said:
I need some help please. I am an active member of the otokonoko community (for those that don't know it translates loosely to male daughter in Japanese, and is where I act as a girl and like to enjoy wearing clothes designed for them, and acting as them.)

My job ACTIVELY hates gays and those people who enjoy sissy side of things and any time there is a drag show, rally an army of people (quite litterly) to go down to city hall cause ruckus and then go to the event and cause even more havvock.) At my meeting last week one of the administration leaders gave a surprising statement suggesting that I go up on stage during the event and in city hall to speak against everything.

Keep in mind I LIVE AT MY JOB. meaning I cannot risk saying the wrong thing at risk for further issues, but I too cannot turn against the sissy and gay community by rallying against them for the sake of impressing my boss. After hearing this I lost composure at the end of the meeting and went back to my unit and broke down.

I have a serious choice to make, but I can't find it in my heart to talk against something I do myself. What do I have to do? It is two weeks before this event.

Just tell them that you have no interest in being in the public eye in that way.

State that you have no interest in politics and would prefer to keep politics out of the work place.

You're just there to do a job.

You don't have to say anything further than that.
 
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LittleBoyCuddles said:
Just tell them that you have no interest in being in the public eye in that way.

State that you have no interest in politics and would prefer to keep politics out of the work place.

You're just there to do a job.

You don't have to say anything further than that.
I suspect that an anti-LGBT religious group won't like the idea that anti-LGBT views are "politics" that should be kept separate from religious activities. (If they accepted that premise, they probably wouldn't be engaging in anti-LGBT speech in the first place.) That's why I think it's better to focus on not wanting to speak at all rather than on the content being the issue.
 
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How did you end up working for a church with a very public doctrine of hatred you cannot agree with?

I sympathise - I used to work for a privatised healthcare provider - but it is important to have an exit strategy.
 
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