Childhood Trauma and its Effects

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There reason I have decided to make this thread is well, for a few different reasons actually. One because I want to make Childhood trauma, specially childhood abuse, more understood by our community. There is a great misunderstanding here about it I have come to see. I know that there is a great misunderstanding about it because of when I have posted about it, everytime I am shot down by people on here trying to discredit it, saying it is not true or whatever. So that is my second reason for making this to show I am not just making this up.
The main post the inspired this thread was the post I made in the Diaper Forum in the thread "Someone should make a forum..", where I stated in one of my posts....
"We know that sexual abuse causes homosexuality with most sexual abused people, so there has got to be something specific about us."
Now i got A LOT of negative responses from this comment. Now I do regret saying it so vaguely with no description, and no sources cited, but I do NOT regret saying it because it is a very true statement. Which I am about to prove to everyone why it is true that sexual abuse can cause homosexuality.
So first here is a video from youtube of the Tyra's show where she has Dr. Drew Pinksy s a geust answering a few qeustions about a female teen prostitute they have on the show. Dr. Drew is a Board Certified Physician and Addiction Medical Specialist, plus the host of Loveline Radio show which was once on MTV for a couple of years and has been on the radio since 1986! So Drew is VERY experianced doctor not in just physical medical conditions but of mental conditions. Watch video before finish reading this post/thread!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TmcvUQlJb0

Now make sure you watch the ENTIRE VIDEO and read everything I said BEFORE responding. The whole video is important but here is the main part that I have typed up, in which I want you to focus most of your attention on...(the bold print is what is helping prove my point)
Tyra: “How can someone at 14 years old….why would they turn to prostitution?”

Dr. Drew: “You been asking that question of these young ladies, they are such bright young people, and you wonder what they could be thinking to make them do this. In fact when it comes to aggressive self destructive acting out, their thinking about it is always distorted, their justifying their behaviors. But the reality is, particularly in Victoria’s case, every case I have dealt with like hers, there is always some antecedent history of sexual trauma, typically sexually abuse. The extraordinary thing about humans is when things are terrorizing to us and overwhelming in childhood, they become immensely attractive when we hit puberty. So there is actually a drive to reenact those things, as though there is some mastery over those, by putting yourself back in that setting of explortation.”

Tyra: “Have you been sexually abused?”

Victoria: “Yeah, when I was 5 years old.”

Tyra: “When you were 5 years old? Dr. Drew your always right!”

Dr. Drew: “You know when it becomes to this extreme behavior, that are so disruptive and they do not make sense, but people always asking how could this be? There is always something there, as you mentioned, a why driving it. It’s not rational! These aren’t rational things, these are motivation systems that get set up early in life, and drive them back into those circumstances of exploitation. Their perception is, that they are in control of it, their reenacting it, gaining mastery, and gaining control of it, but in fact they are just compulsively reenacting the same thing over and over again.”

Now I know the very first thing you all are thinking...that it does not say one thing about homosexuality. I am greatly aware of this, but that is the beauty of this theory Dr. Drew has just spoke about. Overall Dr. Drew is saying that ANY traumatic childhood abuse (specially sexual abuse) effects a humans brain chemistry and the way they think, in which this becomes noticable by the time the child hits puberty. Now in this girls case she was sexually abuse by a guy at 5 years old, the effect this has had on her is she seeks to be sexually seducted over and over again by other stranger males, just like she was sexually seducted by a male stranger at 5 years old, so she reenacts this by being a prostitute. By doing this she is trying to "master" this traumatic event, showing herself she has control over it, and controls when it happens, how it happens, and ect. It changes her rationality of thinking logically. Now this can apply to homosexual abuse and soooo many other types of abuse as well. Being abused from the same sex/gender would cause a child to think unrational and make them reenact the traumtic event just like this girl and every other abuse victim does, by turning homosexual/bisexual and reenacting this traumitic event, by having same sex partners, acting out homosexual actions, as if the brain is trying to master and conquer this traumtic event, to show that they have CONTROL over the event, even though they really did not when it happened.

So no matter what type of traumatic childhood event(s) happened in life, it is going to manifest and effect the child when they grow older. Pretty much everytime with the child going back an acting out the same actions that happened to them. (not saying it would make them abuse little kids, your way missing the point if thats what you got from this.)

So please post your opinion or expeirances on this topic. Also if you still do not understand the point I am trying to make please post that so I can try to make it more clear.

Also I am NOT trying to offend or discriminate any homosexuals, or prostitutes or anyone! I am trying to create a better understanding for everyone here because I know we have a large homosexual/bisexual population here. Just trying to show you there is PLENTY of evidence and proof that this theory is true all around us.

Oh yes I want to add one last thing in supporting this theory, I have listened to Dr. Drew's show Loveline for many years, as long as I have known about my infantilism, which makes me listening to it for about 8 years now. Every single time someone called in who has sexually abused someone else, or is homosexual/bisexual, Dr. Drew always asks, so when were you abused? Like 99% of the time, the person would say yes they have been abused, most of the time sexually, and if not sexually then physically. Very few times someone would deny any abuse which was less than 1% of the time, but I beleive either they were lying, and is not lying they just do not remember it. Cause it is possible to be physically or sexually abused and not remember it but for it to still negatively affect you, if it happened at 5 years old or younger.
 
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Trevor

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First off, you're extrapolating from Dr. Pinsky's comments that homosexuality falls into the same category of negative behavior as the other things that he was actually talking about. I haven't ever been a religious listener of Loveline, but I don't recall him ever making that particular leap. Abuse does frequently seem present in people's history when they're engaged in negative behaviors, but I don't see how homosexuality fits.

I think you're on really shaky ground to insist that people who don't remember abuse are repressing it. Intrinsically insulting even though I know that's not your intent. I don't recall reading anything on repressed/recovered memories that was supportive of their validity.
 
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Well anyways I typed out the main point from the video that I wanted to be made. So the video is not exactly nessacary it was just a proof of citing.
As for never hearing about Dr. Drew make that connection with homosexuality and abuse before, then it is obvious you have listened to very very few of their shows. Well if you all are not going to beleive this theory then I am not going to push the issue, cause I am not trying to start anything, but it is a common theory among Doctors whether you believe it or not. Seems the community is not being open minded enough to accept this so it would be rude to keep on with it. Although if your still intrested in the topic, research it yourself, you will see sexual abuse causes very serious stuff, and theres no set reaction it always varies of course from person to person. Just go to google and search for "sexual abuse effects" you will get stuff backing up all the stuff I have said. I one of the commonly listed symptoms was sexual dysfunction which can mean, confusion of sexual orientation, sexual compulsion, sexual avoidance, like I said it all depends on the person and situation at hand.
 

ayanna

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No offense, but...I believe your Dr Drew about as much as I believe anything Dr Phil says...in other words, not bloody much.

Doctors who feel it's necessary to promote themselves through radio/television don't hold much sway with me. I wonder if they have any integrity at all, for they certainly have no morals displaying (alleged) people with problems in this way.
 
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Again stated, the video is no longer available.

ON another point, I see where you might be getting all of this. But what I really think is that you just making links between certain things. But there is always the possibility of making the wrong connections. But that's how all guess and check things work. Which is basically what you are doing in my opinion.
 

Martin

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The reason the vid doesn't work is because embedding is disabled, watch it on youtube and it's fine.
 

Trevor

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You're sounding a good deal more certain than Dr. Pinsky himself:

http://www.drdrew.com/Office/article.asp?id=156

It's certainly okay to ask the question and check the data, but when you start telling people why they are a certain way, you best tread pretty carefully. Personally, I think there are enough variations just within infantilism that the cause need not be singular, much less homosexuality. This isn't really a single thing, it's a continuum of behaviors that can be broadly grouped under certain umbrellas for convenience sake.
 

BabyMullet

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First off, you lose a ton of creditability in using a tertiary source of information for your argument. If you would show us a primary, peer-researched, article or study, you would be on a lot more solid ground in swaying me with your arguments.

Second, I would say that there is a lot of research saying that homosexuality is genetic, or people are inherently hetero or homo. Homosexuality exists in animals, and animals really don't have sexually abuse (to my knowledge). So in my mind Homosexuality is as much a part of the person as the color of their eyes. I would also question if the abuse happened because of homosexuality, not that abuse caused homosexuality.
 
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The main post the inspired this thread was the post I made in the Diaper Forum in the thread "Someone should make a forum..", where I stated in one of my posts....
"We know that sexual abuse causes homosexuality with most sexual abused people, so there has got to be something specific about us."
I think the reason that drew a lot of negative feedback was because it was a gross generalisation. Unless you have sources to support your case, then I don't think people here would be willing to side with you. It wasn't so much that they "shot you down" or purposely tried to "discredit" you - their responses were probably done because it was an assumption made with no facts and no logic to support it. I'm not trying to discredit you here myself, but that's just how I see it.

I think it's great that you went out and said that. Few people can support a statement like that. Personally though, I like to sit on the fence. Instead of dictating what I think is true, or is false, I'm a lot more selective in my words and purely say what I think may be the case. It allows people who both agree and disagree with me to reply, either supporting or disproving my case.



For the rest of your post, I really going to agree with ayanna and Trevor here. Quite frankly, any doctor who promotes themselves through media probably has more experience being a TV personality than anything. To go in and say why someone is the way they are, you really should watch yourself. The only thing worse is to blindly follow them. The problem with media is that all too often people take what is presented to them as the truth. We place too much trust in the "researchers" who do all the necessary background checks for the people on the show. So we assume that what is being presented to us has been verified and it's this mentality that takes away from us any notion to have to think about what we are watching.

If you could provide a primary information source, as Babymullet Ver 6.4 suggested, I may be more inclined to believe that homosexuality is mostly caused by abuse. (Note that I do already to believe homosexuality can be caused by abuse, but I don't think it is true for most cases)
 

Kraiden

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I might sound a bit anal about this, but I've gotta say it...

Well Duh.

Sexual abuse can cause Homosexuality. And guess what? It could also cause Transgenderism, Sadomasochist behaviour, Asexuality, Infantilism (Gasp!), Pedophilia, and a whole slew of other things, some sexual, some not.

The only thing Major Physical, Mental or Sexual abuse causes is our brains to cope in some of the weirdest ways possible, and most probably get screwed up along in the process. Ever heard of OCD? Agoraphobia?

Another thing, why the hell are we even talking about this? Eclipse, why should you care about what causes Homosexuality? Are you gay? I mean, whenever I've seen you delve into a conversation where people are talking about Homosexuality, you always seem to have something negative to say about it.

A better question would be... Why do I care about this? Bah. I'm off to kill things. *Boots up Monster hunter*
 
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Doctors who feel it's necessary to promote themselves through radio/television don't hold much sway with me. I wonder if they have any integrity at all, for they certainly have no morals displaying (alleged) people with problems in this way.
1.) He was airing this radio show waaayyy before he was considered celebirty, like i said the radio show started 1986!
2.) He is called in for opinion and evaluations on many psychologoical discussions on msnbc, fox, abc, cnn, pretty much every major news station. He does not pay them to come on there, or they do not pay him to come on there for news stories. This shows he is a well respected person by millions of people, as a person, doctor, and addiction specialist.

http://www.drdrew.com/Office/article.asp?id=156

It's certainly okay to ask the question and check the data, but when you start telling people why they are a certain way, you best tread pretty carefully. Personally, I think there are enough variations just within infantilism that the cause need not be singular, much less homosexuality. This isn't really a single thing, it's a continuum of behaviors that can be broadly grouped under certain umbrellas for convenience sake.
I am sooo happy you posted this link because it supports this theory I am speaking of even way more haha. I have been to this site before but forgot about it, thought it was gone actually. Also I never said abuse was the sole cause. Again here is a statement from him that is beautiful to me, and you can tell he tells the facts and does not exagerate....

"In my experience on the radio and television program, gay and lesbian callers have often had early childhood sexual traumas of one sort or another, usually sexual abuse. There are no definitive results on whether this contributes; yet again, it has been my experience. My theory is that a young person's brain wiring is very malleable and plastic. Somehow, a precocious exposure in this fashion may solidify the wiring in a way that results in homosexuality."

Then he later goes on saying how this is nothing definite but very common patterns noticed by specialists.

First off, you lose a ton of creditability in using a tertiary source of information for your argument. If you would show us a primary, peer-researched, article or study, you would be on a lot more solid ground in swaying me with your arguments.

Second, I would say that there is a lot of research saying that homosexuality is genetic, or people are inherently hetero or homo. Homosexuality exists in animals, and animals really don't have sexually abuse (to my knowledge). So in my mind Homosexuality is as much a part of the person as the color of their eyes. I would also question if the abuse happened because of homosexuality, not that abuse caused homosexuality.
How is a doctor not creditable? Also again I never said abuse was the sole cause of it, and I agree that there is a genetic link too, which yes has been proven. Also because that is true it makes it easily possible but not true, for infantilism to be in our genetics.

I might sound a bit anal about this, but I've gotta say it...

Well Duh.

Sexual abuse can cause Homosexuality. And guess what? It could also cause Transgenderism, Sadomasochist behaviour, Asexuality, Infantilism (Gasp!), Pedophilia, and a whole slew of other things, some sexual, some not.

The only thing Major Physical, Mental or Sexual abuse causes is our brains to cope in some of the weirdest ways possible, and most probably get screwed up along in the process. Ever heard of OCD? Agoraphobia?

Another thing, why the hell are we even talking about this? Eclipse, why should you care about what causes Homosexuality? Are you gay? I mean, whenever I've seen you delve into a conversation where people are talking about Homosexuality, you always seem to have something negative to say about it.

A better question would be... Why do I care about this? Bah. I'm off to kill things. *Boots up Monster hunter*
I can not tell if your being sarcastic. If your not then I am glad you agree on a certain level. Why do I care? No I am not gay, but I am trying to show that all sexual related stuff is caused by previous childhood expeirances from enviormental factors from growing up in combination with genetics.
I dare you to show me one thing negative I have ever said about gay people, I know you can not do that. If you can do that I will give you a plus rep haha.
 

Kraiden

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I dare you to show me one thing negative I have ever said about gay people, I know you can not do that. If you can do that I will give you a plus rep haha.
*points to the crater that used to be TBDL*

It's not what you say, It's the context in which you say it.
 

ayanna

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1.) He was airing this radio show waaayyy before he was considered celebirty, like i said the radio show started 1986!
2.) He is called in for opinion and evaluations on many psychologoical discussions on msnbc, fox, abc, cnn, pretty much every major news station. He does not pay them to come on there, or they do not pay him to come on there for news stories. This shows he is a well respected person by millions of people, as a person, doctor, and addiction specialist.
So he started his radio show in 1986? And the point would be?? Seriously the point of the matter is he started a radio show at ALL. That lowers his credibility in my eyes, exponentially.

When I think of phone-in psychiatric card I think "Frasier" and although it's definitely good for a laugh, I seriously wouldn't recommend heeding the advice of someone who talks to a 'patient' for under 3 minutes! It's all about the ratings, and you don't get ratings by keeping the same person on the phone for an entire 3 hr call-in show (or however long his program lasts).

Hmm...MSNBC...Microsoft/Bill Gates...'nuff said....FOX....'nuff said...ABC...owned by Disney a company which devotes itself to the stuff childhood dreams are made of!...'nuff said...CNN...Ted Turner, need I say more?...erm, I mean...'nuff said!

Seriously...I understand where you're coming from. You trust this source, you believe everything he says. Thus, you endeavour to elevate him to the status of 'reliable' by showing he's been on this or that news cast. What proof do you have that he wasn't paid for his appearances? Well, even if he wasn't paid in actual dollars, you can bet he was paid in promotion...millions of people who've never heard his radio show now know who he is and can tune in! It's called publicity and it's worth a lot in terms of getting his name out there and recognisable.

Sorry, you can't convince me to believe in your Dr Drew or his far-out ideas, but nice try anyway. :)
 
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*points to the crater that used to be TBDL*

It's not what you say, It's the context in which you say it.
Hmmm....well I have not realized I was doing that, if I was I apologize about that. Although I do not see how I have been doing this cause 90% of the time I bring up this subject or join in this topic I usually say homosexuality, which is the technical term for it, I rarely even say "gays." I am not your regular homophobic straight dude. I believe they can not help it just like I can not help my infantilism, so I am not going to hold that against them. Which is on the basis of what I been talking about the whole time haha, how homosexuals and infantilist are both caused by a force that we can not help or even understand yet. Which I beleive to be caused by a mix of genetics and eviormental expeirances/traumas growing up.

So he started his radio show in 1986? And the point would be?? Seriously the point of the matter is he started a radio show at ALL. That lowers his credibility in my eyes, exponentially.

When I think of phone-in psychiatric card I think "Frasier" and although it's definitely good for a laugh, I seriously wouldn't recommend heeding the advice of someone who talks to a 'patient' for under 3 minutes! It's all about the ratings, and you don't get ratings by keeping the same person on the phone for an entire 3 hr call-in show (or however long his program lasts).

Hmm...MSNBC...Microsoft/Bill Gates...'nuff said....FOX....'nuff said...ABC...owned by Disney a company which devotes itself to the stuff childhood dreams are made of!...'nuff said...CNN...Ted Turner, need I say more?...erm, I mean...'nuff said!

Seriously...I understand where you're coming from. You trust this source, you believe everything he says. Thus, you endeavour to elevate him to the status of 'reliable' by showing he's been on this or that news cast. What proof do you have that he wasn't paid for his appearances? Well, even if he wasn't paid in actual dollars, you can bet he was paid in promotion...millions of people who've never heard his radio show now know who he is and can tune in! It's called publicity and it's worth a lot in terms of getting his name out there and recognisable.

Sorry, you can't convince me to believe in your Dr Drew or his far-out ideas, but nice try anyway. :)
Haha you crack me up sometimes, ayanna. Well I do want to say, how can you knock out every national news there is in the US? That leaves basically no one to trust for news haha. Also I do not think they pay any geust to come on the news, it is considered an honor, although I do agree, it is obvious they do gain publicity for it.
He also does your regular doctor check ups, along with his radio show, vh1 celebirty rehab, geust apperances on other shows, plus take care of a family with a wife, twins or maybe he has triplets. Either way I know he has 3 kids. So he does alot, even doctor appointments that pays him nothing compared to the other stuff he does, proving he really is passionate about what he does and enjoys helping people. So why would he go around telling false information, specially on national news? Anyways whether you decide to trust him or not, he is definetly 100 times better than Dr. Phil. I hate that guy, he is a cheap rip off trying to accomplish the things Drew has.

Anyways believe what you want.
 

BabyMullet

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Anyways believe what you want.
I think you summed it up perfectly right there. You're dealing with human psychology, in no way is that field absolute.

Haha you crack me up sometimes, ayanna. Well I do want to say, how can you knock out every national news there is in the US? That leaves basically no one to trust for news haha.
On a completely unrelated note, the BBC does a better job at reporting the news in the US then any news corporation in the US.
 

kite

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first off, i want to say good try on trying to gather up information on why we are the way we are, but the problem isn't the information (or mostly opinions) but the manner they're coming across (and from whom). we may not know why we're gay, bisexual, wear diapers, like the color red, etc. but we know who we are.
to tell a group of people (rather than uncovering a source of info and discussing it) they are a certain way due to an event known or unknown that happened during a certain period in their life you need to be 100% sure it accounts for every person that has ever lived. the first rule in developing theories is to keep rewriting theories.
personally, i have not once seen a psychological sexual 'trait' that has a definitive end result and i doubt they ever will gain one.
think about this: after all your, or anyone elses, experiences or variables they encounter in life do you think any one person will have the same outcome in life due to it?
in my own opinion from what i've seen on here with the polls, posts, and what bitter grey has documented i think our diaper wearing is due to premature or incomplete separation from parents/guardians in the physical/mental realm, but i could be waaaay off.
 

dpr_fox

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Just going to take a few quotes from you Eclipse, to try to clarify where I feel you could stand to be a bit more careful about the way you word things. Sorry for ripping them out of context, but they're all from this thread, so people are free to scroll up to look at the context.

Eclipse said:
We know that sexual abuse causes homosexuality with most sexual abused people

Which I am about to prove to everyone why it is true that sexual abuse can cause homosexuality.

So no matter what type of traumatic childhood event(s) happened in life, it is going to manifest and effect the child when they grow older. Pretty much everytime with the child going back an acting out the same actions that happened to them.

it is a common theory among Doctors

theres no set reaction it always varies of course from person to person

Also I never said abuse was the sole cause
Do you see how your position and what you're trying to argue changes and weakens? This is why I asked you to clarify your original statement - you've certainly talked more about it, but it still lacks clear wording (or at least consistent) on exactly what argument you're trying to make.

If you'll bear with me, I'll present a statement that you may be able to argue, if you were to do a bit more research (getting multiple doctor's agreeing opinions or finding something that is peer-reviewed and published):

"Sexual trauma in early childhood has a lasting impact on a person's personality for the rest of their lives. The mind of such a person has to deal with this in some way, which we believe may often manifest itself in alternate sexual or identity issues such as homosexuality, fetishism, transgenderism, etc"

While this is not entirely different from the later points you try to make, this is very certainly NOT the statement you first made for a number of reasons:
1) It is not intended to "prove" anything,
2) it does not claim to be something that we "know" about how all (or most) sexually abused people will turn out (at least specifically)
3) It does not claim a causal relationship that is not supported

Your original statement ("We know that sexual abuse causes homosexuality with most sexual abused people") I actually consider to be pretty absurd, because it implies a lot that you don't seem able to support. I think few of us would question if sexual abuse affects a person's personality, and the same with the fact that it could affect one's sexual orientation. However, you have not supplied evidence that it causes homosexuality in all (or even most) cases, or that it is a primary cause.

In your defence, you have never argued that all homosexuals are homosexual because of abuse in their childhood, but you also have not stated that explicitly - I'm not sure if people are implying that that is what you are arguing, but clarifying that point might help.

I hope that helps clarify where some of the confusion might have been.

EDIT: Also, as for his comments that most of the people who have called into his show asking for help who have been homosexual have encountered some form of abuse in the past, often sexual, this is anecdotal evidence, and should not be treated as proof for anything. Keep in mind he is someone who specializes in abuse issues, and it can easily be reworded that he has a lot of callers contact him who have encountered abuse in the past, some of which have also been homosexual.
 
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Okay I am really getting sick and tired of people putting words in my mouth that I did not say! I mean that is really absurd and disrespectful! Here are all the things I have been acussed of saying and have never EVER said!

1.) Abuse is sole cause of homosexuality
2.) Abuse always causes homosexuality
3.) Because Dr Drew says it makes it true

All of you assume I have said all three of those which I have not until now. To be honest it pisses me off to no end! I never ever said any of that. Also technically I did give evidence of most (not F***ING all!!!) homosexuals have had abuse in the past if not sexual than physical. This was said by Dr. Drew saying almsot every single of his patients were this way. As he has seen with other Doctor's patients. Yes that is only one doctor, if you want more proof then thats your problem. Don't take it up with me, I am not going to go out of my way to prove this without a doubt to you. It is proven without a doubt to myself and that is good, and all I need to do.
I just wanted to share this information to see peoples opinions on it, and if people knew about it and stuff like that. This has turned out to an all out brawl basically. I bet its all because I am a straight dude making accusations about homosexuals. Thats so messed up.
 
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