Cat Behavioral Problems

[Hello_Kitty]

My cat, Leia, is usually a good cat; despite "popping" the carpet from time to time. But lately she has been having really runny bowels. And is continuously shitting runny piles behind the couch, under the china cabinet, on clothes left on the floor, or under tables/chairs/desks.
I have to clean up 2-3 piles a day and scrub down the carpet. I'm at my wits end and I'm about to throw her out of the house, but she is 6th generation inbred and has horrible allergies.
I can't figure out what she's pissed off about.
I've rubbed her nose in it and popped her really hard several times but she's not getting it.

Any info, experience, advice would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!
thx in advance.

How could this sweet face be such a pain in the ass!

 

[Pojo]

Hurting a cat won't solve your problems. Have you tried changing her food or actually taking her to a vet? I'm sure a vet would be much more help than people on here.

 

[Charlie]

"You do that one more time, just ONE MORE TIME, and it's straight to the violin factory!"

Go to a vet, definitely go to a vet.
Or a cat psychologist.
Or a cat wisperer.
Or a pet psychic.
Or a cat diaper specialist.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

We are kind of low on funds right now. We're moving again soon so I have to be frugal as possible.

She has had this brand of food before and didn't have these problems she just developed them last week when I won't let her sleep in my room anymore and I prop something against the door so she can't push it open. My friend, Cyn, who lives across the hall locks her bedroom door so Leia can't sleep in her room anymore either. We think she's pissed about that.

"You do that one more time, just ONE MORE TIME, and it's straight to the violin factory!"

Go to a vet, definitely go to a vet.
Or a cat psychologist.
Or a cat wisperer.
Or a pet psychic.
Or a cat diaper specialist.

I do agree on the vet, but again I'm very low on funds. We have $42 to last until May 29th.
But as for the whisperers, psychics, and psychologists, I believe those are a scam.

 

[Pojo]

It doesn't hurt to try different food. You could try letting her sleep with you again, and see if that improves. If not, then you know it's probably not that.

 

[Serendiapity]

Try changing her litter and food brands. She may have allergies to something, try researching this online or in a library. Talk to a RL friend who knows about cats or pets in general.

 

[h3g3l]

In the interim, you could try cleaning out her litter box, putting her bodily in there, and praising her. You could also shut her into the room at night with her litter box, a bowl of water, and a bed (away from the litter box).

Rubbing her face in it won't help things, and your cat will get the message "avoid that bad person." It may make you feel better for the time being, but you'll be scrubbing shit out of the carpet longer.

Some simple things you can do now is make a determination if this is behavioral or caused by sickness. Given the consistency, I'd lean towards the cause at least partially being sickness. Shutting the cat in the bathroom at night and monitoring her food and what she gets into could only help.

You may want to check out a cat behavioral book from the library--"Shelter Cats" is one that comes to mind that has a few easily-read pages regarding cats not using the litter box. This would only cost you some time. If you live in a college town, you may want to see if the university's vet program has free or cheap consults, though they'll likely have to draw blood to make the behavior/illness determination--and you are the person best able to make that distinction, as you are the cat's owner.

Crate training comes to mind, but I don't think cats respond to that nearly as well as dogs (if at all). I'm training mine to use the toilet right now, and I've been lucky in that she's always been very good about using "her place," save one unfortunate incident where she begged half a banana off me ... and we're not going to go THERE again! :smile1:

If my cat were doing what yours is doing, I'd stabilize feeding times, shut her in the (tiled?) bathroom at night with her bed, water, litter box, and a small toy, and get to reading a bit. They say that a good portion of behavior modification (for cats especially) is persistence and patience. That's difficult to do, I can imagine, when you're scrubbing away at cat turds in the carpet.

G'luck!

 

[Mako]

Cats will commonly not go in the litter box if they're not fond of the litter, or just plain don't like litter in their paws. It's most common with cats who've been declawed.

As for the runniness, the cats most likely sick. If you can't go to a vet, at the very least you should try a forum more specialized in pet care. They may know a bit more then us.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Thank you for all the great comments. I will change her food tomorrow to something a little less "Bottom shelf". I suppose it is allergies because all of my other cats eat the same food and they have no bowel problems.

To Pojo: She has really smelly farts and we can't stand them so we both kicked her out of our rooms.

Crate training comes to mind, but I don't think cats respond to that nearly as well as dogs (if at all). I'm training mine to use the toilet right now, and I've been lucky in that she's always been very good about using "her place," save one unfortunate incident where she begged half a banana off me ... and we're not going to go THERE again! :smile1:

When we move into our new apartment I will be toilet training all of my cats because I will have two full bathrooms and they can have a bathroom of their own. The trick is getting them to flush.

If you live in a college town, you may want to see if the university's vet program has free or cheap consults, though they'll likely have to draw blood to make the behavior/illness determination--and you are the person best able to make that distinction, as you are the cat's owner.

I will be moving to a college town, walking distance to Elon University, NC. But I've been to Elon Animal Hospital and I truly hate the doctor. He's an asshole who thinks he the best doctor around and once said "I don't know why everyone doesn't come to me, They must hate their pets".
And he was wanting to put Leia on Ovaban (pill) for the rest of her life and I said "For the REST OF HER LIFE?" and he replied with "You do love this cat don't you?" Since then I was like "F*ck you buddy!" But there's tons around here so I might find some that will give free info.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

To the person who gave me negative rep.
I was always taught to rub a dog/cat's nose in their pee/poop or hold their face close to it and give them a pop. Not beat them, just a good pop in the hind leg quarters. Generally, my dogs wouldn't poop on the carpet anymore when I did this when I was a kid. So I say it works to an extent.

Furthermore, I am a cat obsessed person. Do you think I wanted to hurt her. No! but maybe if she associates pain and me yelling at her to what she has done she won't do it anymore. I just started the nose rubbing yesterday.

 

[Pojo]

To the person who gave me negative rep.
I was always taught to rub a dog/cat's nose in their pee/poop or hold their face close to it and give them a pop. Not beat them, just a good pop in the hind leg quarters. Generally, my dogs wouldn't poop on the carpet anymore when I did this when I was a kid. So I say it works to an extent.

I guess people don't know that's an actual training method (although I don't think it's used really anymore)

 

[NEJay]

Whomever it was taught you wrong. A cat will not respond in a positive way to hitting, bopping, or putting their face in their poop.

If your cat has runny stool and is farting a lot, it is sick, and it is your responsibility as it's owner to get him/her to a vet. Most vets will work with you about payment, whether it be a payment plan, or delaying payment to a later date. If you can't, or won't do this, you need to give the cat up to someone that will.

Maybe go without a month of internet or cell phone to cover the $50-100 or so it would cost for a vet checkup. Your cat's health is much more important than the former.

(and no, I didn't give you a neg rep)

I guess people don't know that's an actual training method (although I don't think it's used really anymore)

The "putting the face near poop in the house" is a method for dogs (but it is frowned upon by most animal behaviorists due to the fact that there are much more effective techniques), but not for cats. The cat will only resent the person that does this to them.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Maybe go without a month of internet or cell phone to cover the $50-100 or so it would cost for a vet checkup. Your cat's health is much more important than the former.

(and no, I didn't give you a neg rep)

Oh I just love how you think I put myself above my cats.
I have you know. I don't have a cell phone, and I don't pay for the internet I'm using. I don't even have a fuckin car as of this morning. Thanks to two cars breaking down on me within two months. So before you run your goddamn mouth about something you don't even know about you should know that we have $42 fuckin dollars to last until May 29th. I'm as frugal and penny-pinching as they come. I do without all the time so that my cats don't go without. I don't have kids, they are my children! So don't talk shit about someone you don't know!
And furthermore, most doctors are BS. I personally avoid them because the more you go the sicker you become.


Oh and I forgot to add that I have two maxed out CareCredit (Vet) credit cards that were used on my CATS!!
BECAUSE I DON'T FUCKIN LOVE THEM!!! YEA BECAUSE I PUT MYSELF BEFORE THE WELL BEING OF MY CATS!

 

[NEJay]

Ouch. All I was saying is that you really should take the cat to a vet, and offered some suggestions to save money elsewhere to afford it.

I don't understand your aversion to veterinarians, but they are the ones that went to school for many years to treat these animals properly, and I don't think it's right for you to withhold that care from your cat. If you don't like the one you went to before, call your local ASPCA and ask who they recommend (or better yet, ask if they can help you out).

I'm not a vet, but runny stool and excessive gas isn't normal, and you should definitely get him/her checked out asap.

In the future, look into pet insurance if you're inclined... If you have car insurance it's only about $15/month, and a standalone policy is about $10 more. I found this out the hard way, after my kitty went through several operations for magnesium buildup in his urethra, to the tune of almost $3k. $15/month is cheeeep compared to that.

 

[h3g3l]

And furthermore, most doctors are BS. I personally avoid them because the more you go the sicker you become.

Are you talking about people-docs (M.D., etc.) or animal-docs (D.V.M.) here? I'm at a place with a very active D.V.M. program, and most of the folks who get into the "fuzzy pets" portion of the program deeply care about animals. If you've found some who do not (like the one you have indicated in a prior post) then they do not deserve your business--or any other.

In the future, look into pet insurance if you're inclined... If you have car insurance it's only about $15/month, and a standalone policy is about $10 more. I found this out the hard way, after my kitty went through several operations for magnesium buildup in his urethra, to the tune of almost $3k. $15/month is cheeeep compared to that.

This is really good advice. I didn't know you could put pet insurance as a "bolt-on" to car insurance for a discount. I could use a search engine, yes, but do you have any suggestions for vendor selection?

 

[NEJay]

Smokey's (my kitty) insurance is through State Farm, the same carrier I use for my cars/boat. The coverage cost depends on what you want it to cover, and how many things you have covered through the carrier. For $15/month he gets one annual checkup, major surgeries (removing tumors, broken limbs, basically anything that requires an overnight stay) are a $100 deductible, and outpatient services (like if he gets worms or something) are $20 a visit. I also get a significant discount on the Hill's Prescription Diet food he has to eat to prevent his urethra blockages.

Some vets still require you to pay upfront, but at least with my carrier, they EFT the bill amount, minus deductible, after they get the receipt. The last checkup Smokey had, I had the money back in my account within 24 hours of faxing them the invoice.

Hello_Kitty, if you google "pet insurance", you might be able to sign up online and get your kitty insured right away. I'm not sure if there is any grace period, but $25 for the first month of coverage would be a heck of a lot cheaper than a visit without coverage. And again... Talk to your local ASPCA for a recommendation on a good vet. They can tell you who isn't going to charge you an arm and a leg, but still will provide the proper care for your buddy.

 

[starshine]

I've heard of the rubbing your cats nose in its pee, but not poop. I just heard pee because the ammonia will burn their nose. Frankly, I don't blame you in the least because I'd be at my wits ends too. It's hardly anything close to abuse.

Good luck trying to figure it out. I don't really have any advice... have you tried making it eat grass or something? Doesn't that help?

 

[NEJay]

It isn't really "abusive" per se (at least in small doses), but because of the mentality of a cat, it will never have a positive benefit. A negative reaction to cat behavior will only result in resentment, and more bad behavior. Cats are too independent.

I've gotten mad at my cat and swatted him out of spite before, and it doesn't accomplish anything other than him going into "defense mode"... The cat's eyes grow wide, and they sulk when you get near them again. They become afraid of you, at least for the short time that they remember what you did to them. Do it a bunch of times, and they will look at you as a threat.

The best thing to do if a cat is crapping on the floor is to immediately put them in their litter box after (or during) their "accident". This can also be prevented by escorting them to the box immediately after they're done eating, even for adult cats that have developed a bad habit.

Cats will also poop in other places than their litter box because the box is "undesirable" to them (although I think in the OP's case, the cat is genuinely sick, and can't help it). A dirty box, or a box located in an uncomfortable place (like in a busy part of the home) will lead them to find a more comfortable place to leave the Cosby kids at the pool. Cats are very clean, independent, and self concious animals... They don't like to do their duties in a dirty litterbox, or in front of a crowd.

 

[Yawgmoth]

because of the mentality of a cat, it will never have a positive benefit. A negative reaction to cat behavior will only result in resentment, and more bad behavior. Cats are too independent.

This is simply not true. I know several cat owners (myself not included) who have trained their cats through this method. Also, your logic seems flawed to me. You claim that a negative reaction will only result in resentment, however that would only leave two other kinds of reaction: neutral and positive. A neutral reaction, one of indifference, would tell the animal that what it is doing isn't wrong. And a positive action (such as petting/scratching it when it poops on the carpet) would also act to reinforce the behavior.

I've gotten mad at my cat and swatted him out of spite before, and it doesn't accomplish anything other than him going into "defense mode"... The cat's eyes grow wide, and they sulk when you get near them again. They become afraid of you, at least for the short time that they remember what you did to them. Do it a bunch of times, and they will look at you as a threat.

The animal does not resent you for smacking it, instead it fears receiving the same treatment if it soils the carpet again. For example, my dogs are happy all the time and will always come up to my happily and without hesitation. However, when one of them poops/pees on the carpet, they will shake and tremble knowing what's about to come because they know they did wrong. The so-called "defense mode" you spoke about is the effect of the animal actually learning what is acceptable behavior and what isn't. Now, granted, if you do it a bunch of times without any stimulus (poop/pee) then, yes, the animal will come to resent you and see you as a threat.

The best thing to do if a cat is crapping on the floor is to immediately put them in their litter box after (or during) their "accident". This can also be prevented by escorting them to the box immediately after they're done eating, even for adult cats that have developed a bad habit.

I'm not much of a cat trainer, but to me this seems nothing more than a minor inconvenience for the cat. It has already done it's business, and if it receives no negative reaction then moving it simply won't teach that it did wrong.



The more you know.... :educate:

 

[Mako]

Yawgmoth, your completely and utterly wrong. Your methods mentioned is that which works with dogs, not cats. NEJay was completely on when it comes to the behaviour of cats. Something I am quite a bit knowledgeable in due to my particular affinity. You can NOT train a cat, as you do a dog. It doesn't work.
Rubbing a cats face in its excrement will not teach it to stop, it'll teach it to stay the hell away from whoever is abusing it. And yes that is what it is. I didn't neg rep, but I bit my tounge so I can try and give advice. I honestly want to fucking throttle the OP for doing such a thing to a kitty, and anyone who thought it was a good idea. It accomplished nothing and you have no right to take your frustrations out on the cat. Physical abuse to the cat will not enforce a good relationship, a dog will react to a swat on the nose. A cat will learn to hate you for it.

The cat is sick damnit! It's not its fault if it's having accidents. The problem is the cat box, or the cat can't hold it. If its the litter rather needs to be cleaned more, or the litter is simply undesirable. There are other types of litter out there, or simple tricks you can do if the litter irritates the cats paws. It IS about the convenience of the cat.
If it is because its sick, then it's going to need care.

<Edit>
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Okay ranting it out. I needed to vent a bit.
I'm going to expand a bit. NEJay did point out to bring the cat to the litter box when it goes. Make sure you do NOT scold the cat. It'll make things worse, as you'll be associating the litter box with punishment. Making it unpleasant for the cat is not going to get him to behave well, but worse. Reward the cat when it uses its litterbox properly, immediately after to associate the litter box with happy feelings.
A second litter box away from the first one may even help. The cat's sick, make is as convenient and as pleasurable as possible for it to go.
Is it closed or open litter box? The cats nose is better then yours (and most dog breeds for that matter). It doesn't like the smell of its own waste any more then you do. So if its a closed box, this may be part of it.