Babies and incontinence

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Drifter

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Like the majority of the members here I recommend against deliberately trying to become incontinent, but it seems like there may be some misconceptions by some of those who claim to desire it. If the intent is to experience the feeling of being a helpless 6 month old then incontinence would likely help that. But this may not be the case if you are looking to realistically regress emotionally to an 18 month old baby.

When you think about the main difficulty parents have in potty training toddlers, the problem is not that the babies are incontinent and can't hold it. It's just the opposite. At 2 years most babies seem to have no problem at all holding it in for hours, and many of them do just that when sitting on a potty. This ability would not have just appeared overnight but would have been formed over time.

If you want to relive the sensation of being a toddler in diapers, uncontrolled wetting may not be a realistic part of that fantasy. Just off the top of my head, I would bet many 18 month old babies have pretty good control over their bladder and decide for themselves when to empty it. They may even enjoy that control to some extent, and, at the same time, they would have no qualms about deliberately wetting their diapers since that is why they are wearing them. Diaper lovers may have more in common with toddlers than they realize.

Just a thought. Is this something that is painfully self evident? ...or are there really misconceptions about this?
 

caitianx

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Interesting.
Toddlers are more continent than they make themselves appear to be.
The potty chair is all about discipline, power, and control.
 

SpAzpieSweeTot

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I agree, Drifter. Continence is a funny animal. And usually by 18 to 24 months, kids who are fully sensate, and don't tend to go if they move the wrong way because of disability, have it down. I guarantee you, kids that age are thinking, "No way! I've done it this way my whole life! If you wanted me to go potty, you should've told me that before!"

The trouble is I do tend to go when I move the wrong way, and when I know for sure I need to, I need to go, now. No, seriously, move! Get the heck up out my way!

For anyone who thinks incontinence is something to aspire to, pooping by reflex, even if you have control most of the time, sucks, and bladder spasms friggin' hurt! After the possible damage I've caused my body in order to stay clean and dry, it's damn insulting to have people actually trying to lose control of themselves.
 
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Wombat

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I agree! I've often thought this, but never bought it up as I didn't think others would agree.

I've raised 4 kids, and when they start becoming mobile, you can tell that they have at least some short term control. Even a young toddler, 12 months or so, will sometimes stop what they are doing briefly as they use their diaper. At first I think it's just an uncontrolled occurrence, but as they get bigger, you'll see them make deliberate moves as they decide to let go.

If they were completely incontinent, you would think that they would just leak like a sieve as soon as any liquid built up in their tiny bladders, but you'll often see them stop what they're doing and spread their legs while looking at their nappy, as they wet themselves.

And if you have ever potty trained an older child, say 2 years plus, you will know that they can hold quite a bit when they put their mind to it.

Without trying to sound creepy, that's one of the things that fascinates me when kids wet their pants, and I'm also talking about older kids now as well.

How come you may see a big kid with a small wet spot in his/her pants, but a little kid or toddler may be wet all down the legs as well? The bigger kid should have more volume to release, yet in an accident may only wet a little. I don't mean leak a bit in the way to the toilet either, but suddenly lose control of the minor amount they're holding in their larger, more controllable bladders, while the littlies may unconsciously hold a much larger volume before they lose control.

I know it happened to me a few times as an older kid, even 10 years old. I would feel only the slightest feeling of needing to pee, not even enough to require any conscious thought to control, when suddenly I would be so involved in what I was doing that I'd wet my pants before I even realised what was happening. There wouldn't even be enough to make my legs wet, but almost without warning I would have a wet spot on my pants. But I've seen little kids stand there and release what seems like a bucketful that they must've been holding onto.

It would be interesting to find out at what age babies start to hold on, consciously or not. At a guess, I would say 6-8 months. That's about when they start becoming more aware of their surroundings, and getting distracted by stuff.
 

CookieMonstah

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Yeah I think like us adults, toddlers can store a urine in their bladder and you won't notice it, until it becomes full that's when you get a signal to tell you it's full.

But with toddlers who wear diapers they won't think I need to go the bathroom I just go where as us adults immediately think I need to find a toilet.

So yes they're not gonna leak constantly out of their bladder but they also don't have a clue what to do other than to just go on the spot. Also they stop what they're doing because it's much easier to go standing still.
 

dogboy

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I suspect toddlers live a little bit in both worlds, being able to hold it for an extended time, and using their diaper for its intended purpose. After all, they've been in a diaper for their entire life, so the parent is trying to retrain the child and reinforce an entirely new concept, that of the toilet. That concept will be misunderstood in the beginning, rejected in the second stage, and through repetition, eventually accepted.

I think that some of the members on this site have misunderstood some of the new members when they said they wanted to in incontinent. From what I've read, and think what some of them meant was that they wanted to be able to wet their diaper while they were asleep. There is a difference. I've done it a few times and it was a wonderful experience. In each case, I was dreaming I was looking for a free toilet in a college dorm, me being a student. I hated to go in front of others, so I would be searching for a free bathroom. On those rare occasions, I finally find my bathroom with no one there and start peeing. I'd wake with a start realizing I was peeing in my diaper.

The other dream involves diapers, finding a diaper and putting it on, only to use it and wake up for real, realizing I was using my diaper.

I think that's what many of these members may want to be able to do. Yes, there are those members who want to be fully incontinent, and for the record, I'm glad I'm not incontinent. But while asleep when I deliberately haven't used my toilet before going to sleep, yes, because I still have some control over the outcome.
 
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It definitely seems like muscle development is in place for young children by 2 at the latest. Potty training is a lot more than muscle development of course, but certainly the physical ability to not pee at any given moment is present.

I also think it's pretty complex to figure out what causes accidents past the first 18 months or so. Of course little kids eat and drink regularly and will pee when they feel uncomfortable because they don't have any reason not to before they're potty trained. But even for bigger kids and adults, the way that you take in liquids and use the bathroom can have a pretty significant short-term effect. For example, I think if you drink constantly over the course of several hours and also pee frequently, if you then try to hold it, it will be much harder and you'll be much more likely to have an "emergency" than you would if you just have a lot to drink and then hold it. And of course if you go about your day without having much to drink, you might not even get the urge to pee for a long stretch whereas drinking a glass of water every hour is for sure going to result in a full bladder no matter how strong your muscles are.

I suspect toddlers live a little bit in both worlds, being able to hold it for an extended time, and using their diaper for its intended purpose. After all, they've been in a diaper for their entire life, so the parent is trying to retrain the child and reinforce an entirely new concept, that of the toilet. That concept will be misunderstood in the beginning, rejected in the second stage, and through repetition, eventually accepted.

I think that some of the members on this site have misunderstood some of the new members when they said they wanted to in incontinent. From what I've read, and think what some of them meant was that they wanted to be able to wet their diaper while they were asleep. There is a difference. I've done it a few times and it was a wonderful experience. In each case, I was dreaming I was looking for a free toilet in a college dorm, me being a student. I hated to go in front of others, so I would be searching for a free bathroom. On those rare occasions, I finally find my bathroom with no one there and start peeing. I'd wake with a start realizing I was peeing in my diaper.

The other dream involves diapers, finding a diaper and putting it on, only to use it and wake up for real, realizing I was using my diaper.

I think that's what many of these members may want to be able to do. Yes, there are those members who want to be fully incontinent, and for the record, I'm glad I'm not incontinent. But while asleep when I deliberately haven't used my toilet before going to sleep, yes, because I still have some control over the outcome.

I think this is right. I doubt most members want to be truly incontinent. The ideal, which I've daydreamed about myself, is some kind of on-off switch for both day and night. The idea that if one is diapered, whether awake or asleep, accidents might happen but if one needs to be an adult then nothing will go wrong is the ideal, I think. It's not really possible though and making oneself actually incontinent is definitely self harm and very bad.
 

Drifter

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I doubt most members want to be truly incontinent. The ideal, which I've daydreamed about myself, is some kind of on-off switch for both day and night. The idea that if one is diapered, whether awake or asleep, accidents might happen ...
I definitely can identify with that daydream. It's this "accident" desire that I am now questioning, specifically daytime "accidents". Nighttime incontinence is a more complicated matter.

It seems the ideal for many ABs is to have, or pretend to have, daytime accidents, which makes their fantasy of needing to wear diapers more realistic. But if you are looking for a realistic toddler experience, deliberately wetting your diapers may actually be more in line with how toddlers operate. Once they achieve practical bladder control, sometime between 1 and 2 years of age, they willingly follow the rule. The rule is - Don't pee if you don't have a diaper on. This is a very sensible rule because it fits with their experience and because peeing without a diaper on leaves a puddle or a wet spot, and nobody wants that. It's a very easy rule to follow because they are in diapers most of the time anyway, and they can easily avoid peeing during those times when they don't have a diaper on. It's around this time that adults become confused and try to reverse the rule.

The bottom line is, if you want to enjoy a realistic toddler fantasy then wet your diapers on purpose just like they do.
 

WBxx

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How come you may see a big kid with a small wet spot in his/her pants, but a little kid or toddler may be wet all down the legs as well? The bigger kid should have more volume to release, yet in an accident may only wet a little. I don't mean leak a bit in the way to the toilet either, but suddenly lose control of the minor amount they're holding in their larger, more controllable bladders, while the littlies may unconsciously hold a much larger volume before they lose control.

I know it happened to me a few times as an older kid, even 10 years old. I would feel only the slightest feeling of needing to pee, not even enough to require any conscious thought to control, when suddenly I would be so involved in what I was doing that I'd wet my pants before I even realised what was happening. There wouldn't even be enough to make my legs wet, but almost without warning I would have a wet spot on my pants. But I've seen little kids stand there and release what seems like a bucketful that they must've been holding onto.

My memories support your observations. Don’t know when it changed, but I have a couple early memories of losing the battle and standing in place as my bladder emptied in my pants. Once I started I couldn’t stop. Be it physical or mental, as the years passed I developed the ability to stop midstream. Coincidentally, control of BM’s was much the same for me.
 
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PyjamaBaby

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It definitely seems like muscle development is in place for young children by 2 at the latest. Potty training is a lot more than muscle development of course, but certainly the physical ability to not pee at any given moment is present.

I also think it's pretty complex to figure out what causes accidents past the first 18 months or so. Of course little kids eat and drink regularly and will pee when they feel uncomfortable because they don't have any reason not to before they're potty trained. But even for bigger kids and adults, the way that you take in liquids and use the bathroom can have a pretty significant short-term effect. For example, I think if you drink constantly over the course of several hours and also pee frequently, if you then try to hold it, it will be much harder and you'll be much more likely to have an "emergency" than you would if you just have a lot to drink and then hold it. And of course if you go about your day without having much to drink, you might not even get the urge to pee for a long stretch whereas drinking a glass of water every hour is for sure going to result in a full bladder no matter how strong your muscles are.



I think this is right. I doubt most members want to be truly incontinent. The ideal, which I've daydreamed about myself, is some kind of on-off switch for both day and night. The idea that if one is diapered, whether awake or asleep, accidents might happen but if one needs to be an adult then nothing will go wrong is the ideal, I think. It's not really possible though and making oneself actually incontinent is definitely self harm and very bad.

I have to say that this is an awesome thread. I thought it was going to be another one about making yourself incontinent, but I was pleasantly surprised.

I regress to quite a young age, but the thought that I would have some control and deliberately use my diaper is a really interesting one. When I regress I need diapers, bottles, hugs, pacifiers, onesies etc, but maybe I am more true to life than I thought.

I also like the idea of an on/off switch when diapered or not, but am definitely on the side of keeping my continence when not diapered thank you very much...
 

begard

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It's certainly possible to be day dry by the age of ~6 months (!?!)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/887331
So this would appear to support the idea that infants are not fully incontinent, they just haven't yet been toilet trained.
I'm sure I saw a documentary years ago that discussed the toilet training methods used by this tribe... can't find it though.
 

KimbaFoxNatsume

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It's certainly possible to be day dry by the age of ~6 months (!?!)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/887331
So this would appear to support the idea that infants are not fully incontinent, they just haven't yet been toilet trained.
I'm sure I saw a documentary years ago that discussed the toilet training methods used by this tribe... can't find it though.

It might be best to take this stuff with a slight grain of salt though. American parents sometimes try their hands at a method called elimination communication as well, which relies on signals from the baby, cues from the parent, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elimination_communication For the American lifestyle however, I can see several problems. It would require almost constant attention from the parent, which especially in a daycare environment isn't going to be available. I also recall seeing an article on this method where parents would allow their babies to urinate on the ground or in public sinks, so I wouldn't exactly call that being ''potty trained.''
 
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MetalMann

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I think the desires for incontinence is more than for just regression, having lack of control is a type of submissive acres rather than regressive ones. I often fantasize about being incontinent, but it's not regression tool for me, it doesn't make me feel little. I've experienced with catheters and I haven't regressed, but felt as I have lost some control. It's like a forced regression knowing that I can't control my bladder. If I don't wear a diaper, I would leak all over the place. It would be embarrassing for me to wet myself, so I feel that wearing diapers will reduce embarrassing leaks, but since I have no control, I have to wear diapers. Diapers make some people feel lower of themselves.

It's a part of a darker side of diaper fetishists that can extend far beyond just wearing and using diapers. This turns into bondage and humiliation. This is why you seen or heard about people diapered in public display. It fuels their desire for the humiliation and that's how some people get their kicks.
 
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The bottom line is, if you want to enjoy a realistic toddler fantasy then wet your diapers on purpose just like they do.

That may be right. For me, at least, it's a complex thing. I don't just enjoy wetting, I also enjoy the experience of holding it and feeling like I have to go really badly. That's less of a baby thing and more of a toddler to small child moment, I thnk. Little boys ages 3-4 might have that sort of trouble, where they are potty trained, but if they have a lot to drink and either get distracted or can't get to the potty for some reason, they might have an accident. I'm...uncertain whether accidents at that age are the result of the bladder filling up and then emptying itself outside of the child's control or if a kid age 3ish simply prefers a pair of wet pants to the pain of holding it past a certain point (meaning that the actual moment of wetting would still be intentional). It's a good question.

I think the desires for incontinence is more than for just regression, having lack of control is a type of submissive acres rather than regressive ones. I often fantasize about being incontinent, but it's not regression tool for me, it doesn't make me feel little. I've experienced with catheters and I haven't regressed, but felt as I have lost some control. It's like a forced regression knowing that I can't control my bladder. If I don't wear a diaper, I would leak all over the place. It would be embarrassing for me to wet myself, so I feel that wearing diapers will reduce embarrassing leaks, but since I have no control, I have to wear diapers. Diapers make some people feel lower of themselves.

It's a part of a darker side of diaper fetishists that can extend far beyond just wearing and using diapers. This turns into bondage and humiliation. This is why you seen or heard about people diapered in public display. It fuels their desire for the humiliation and that's how some people get their kicks.

This is somewhat different. The desire for humiliation, including potentially some things that verge into the self-harm area as an adult kink is pretty well known. I think as long as the activity is done safely and in a way that doesn't cause permanent harm, it's okay to engage in it, it's just a different aspect of the diaper fetish than the baby or young child fantasy.
 

KimbaFoxNatsume

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That may be right. For me, at least, it's a complex thing. I don't just enjoy wetting, I also enjoy the experience of holding it and feeling like I have to go really badly. That's less of a baby thing and more of a toddler to small child moment, I thnk. Little boys ages 3-4 might have that sort of trouble, where they are potty trained, but if they have a lot to drink and either get distracted or can't get to the potty for some reason, they might have an accident. I'm...uncertain whether accidents at that age are the result of the bladder filling up and then emptying itself outside of the child's control or if a kid age 3ish simply prefers a pair of wet pants to the pain of holding it past a certain point (meaning that the actual moment of wetting would still be intentional). It's a good question.



This is somewhat different. The desire for humiliation, including potentially some things that verge into the self-harm area as an adult kink is pretty well known. I think as long as the activity is done safely and in a way that doesn't cause permanent harm, it's okay to engage in it, it's just a different aspect of the diaper fetish than the baby or young child fantasy.

I'm going to assume that these types of accidents are probably genuine losses of control. I just don't think you'll hear many people out they say that when they wet their pants as a kid, it was because they preferred the wet pants to the discomfort of holding. I think most kids who've made it out of potty training successfully recognize wetting themselves as ''bad.''

To the best of my knowledge, I had only one full accident after potty training, at around age five. I didn't want to quit playing and lost control.
 

MetalMann

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I don't think I would want permanent incontinence, but I do fantasize about it. I think I would rather the new term pre-continence instead of a permanent body modification to cause incontinence. After wearing consistently, for a couple of weeks, it gets easier and easier to go at any moment. The less you think about it, the easier it becomes. You will go more often, and the urgency will become more urgent. And in time, by you showing no resistance towards the urge, the more your brain learns this habit. It's not permanent. It's reversible, and then you can toilet train yourself all over again.
 
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Maxx

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If you want to relive the sensation of being a toddler in diapers, uncontrolled wetting may not be a realistic part of that fantasy. Just off the top of my head, I would bet many 18 month old babies have pretty good control over their bladder and decide for themselves when to empty it. They may even enjoy that control to some extent, and, at the same time, they would have no qualms about deliberately wetting their diapers since that is why they are wearing them. Diaper lovers may have more in common with toddlers than they realize.

Just a thought. Is this something that is painfully self evident? ...or are there really misconceptions about this?

First hand recent experience observing Juniorette (almost 2 year old granddaughter), she has a pretty good concept of what's going on, and has for a while. Out on a walk with her and the dog, at every tree, the dog does what dogs do. She points and says "Juno pee" (yes, I made up a fake name to protect the dog's privacy...). I come out of the bathroom, she points and says "Papa pee". I understand Mr. and Mrs. Junior are going to start potty training this week (Mrs. Maxx has been making surreptitious efforts along these lines while babysitting).

How much control does she have? No way of knowing for sure, of course, but I expect quite a bit if she wanted to exercise it. All the red faced grunting for poops tells me that kids have all kinds of awareness and probably control over that from a few months onward. I expect pee is similar if less obvious.

#2 grandson (now in high school) was almost 4 before Maxxette got him out of daytime diapers, and wet the bed until 9. He wasn't physically or mentally challenged in any way, he just like to stick a thumb in the eye of authority. And he didn't care about being wet.

Its probably like walking. Physical tools, understanding, and desire all have to come together before it happens. Juniorette had the physical strength and coordination necessary around 8 months. I kept warning Mrs. Junior it could happen at any moment. Much to my surprise, she was almost a year before she actually let go of the couch and walked. My theory is that she was really fast and efficient crawling and didn't feel the need.

Her dad (Junior) never quite got the hang of crawling, so at 9 months he stood up in the middle of the room and walked.
 

Drifter

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I would say accidents and difficulty in toilet training are rarely due to lack of bladder control but due more often to timing and manual dexterity. Waiting until the last minute to pee is no problem at all if you are wearing an adequate diaper, but it is a problem if you are required to use a toilet and the nearest one is 2 minutes away. Add to this the time required for a toddler to remove clothing and it's easy to see that accidents due to errors in judgement are going to happen. It's a matter of mental conditioning more than anything else, and the overriding mental factor for the child must be wondering why anyone would want to do away with a method that already works perfectly fine in their view. Basically what Maxx is saying about children needing to "feel the need".

Parents try to teach the child the practical problem with diapers and the need to grow up, and also reinforce the peer pressure that most children already feel.

That friggin peer pressure is strong. ABDLs are aware of it all their lives and it can drive ya nuts.

Anyway, this thread was meant to be light and entertaining but factual. All the comments have been great!
 

Drifter

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I think the desires for incontinence is more than for just regression, having lack of control is a type of submissive acres rather than regressive ones. I often fantasize about being incontinent, but it's not regression tool for me, it doesn't make me feel little. I've experienced with catheters and I haven't regressed, but felt as I have lost some control. It's like a forced regression knowing that I can't control my bladder. If I don't wear a diaper, I would leak all over the place. It would be embarrassing for me to wet myself, so I feel that wearing diapers will reduce embarrassing leaks, but since I have no control, I have to wear diapers. Diapers make some people feel lower of themselves.

It's a part of a darker side of diaper fetishists that can extend far beyond just wearing and using diapers. This turns into bondage and humiliation. This is why you seen or heard about people diapered in public display. It fuels their desire for the humiliation and that's how some people get their kicks.

I don't think I would want permanent incontinence, but I do fantasize about it.

I have trouble trying to wrap my head around the idea of desiring actual humiliation. I could see how someone might feel really guilty about something and willingly put up with some kind of humiliating punishment they feel they deserve, but I don't think that is what we are talking about here. Humiliation is a form of punishment, but is it really punishment if it is something you desire?

If the penalty for shoplifting was being spanked and diapered in public and being forced to wear exposed diapers for a week, a lot of shoplifters would mend their ways because of the humiliation, but a lot of ABDLs would become shoplifters. A "normal" person might assume that anyone who actually likes this kind of punishment must also like to be humiliated, but I don't believe anyone truly wants that. For most ABDLs there would be some humiliation in wearing a diaper as a public sign of being a shoplifter, but this isn't something they would desire. It's just something they would be willing to endure in order to get what they actually desire, which is an excuse to wear diapers in public without divulging the terrible truth that they love to wear diapers. That's what would be really humiliating.

Everybody is different and each has his own desires but, to me, "desirable humiliation" is a contradiction in terms. But thanks for pointing out that a desire for incontinence does not have to be about regression.
 
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