Anyone find the #MeToo thing pretty annoying?

SorcerorElf

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I feel like the biggest letdown from the response to #MeToo is that many individuals, predominantly male, refuse to even entertain the thought that this is something that happens to people regardless of gender. Wether the individual is male or female doesn’t matter when it comes to sexual harassment.
Very true. There needs to be more of a focus on stopping sexual abuse regardless of who the perpetrator or victim(s) are.

Unfortuantely though, in most cases cultural views define the laws and legal practices of a society, not the other way around. Both can definitely change, but people's opinions need to change first in order for laws to be adhered to.
 

Drifter

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Unfortuantely though, in most cases cultural views define the laws and legal practices of a society, not the other way around.
In a democratic society it's only natural that laws dictating moral behavior are defined by cultural views. What other options do we have, short of a high priest declaring our moral laws?
Both can definitely change, but people's opinions need to change first in order for laws to be adhered to.
Are you willing to change your opinions to make laws easier to adhere to? I don't mean to pick on you. I'm just saying it's not always easy to change opinions. Everybody in the country agrees people's opinions need to change. Unfortunately, everybody also agrees it's other people's opinions that need to change.
 

CrinklyConnor

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But Come On, if they really did get raped, that does not belong getting blasted on the internet like Due Process is no longer a thing.
The reason why it gets blasted on the internet is because nine times out of ten, they receive an extremely low punishment, if anything, as recent history shows.

All #MeToo seems to do is make it easier for everyone to bandwagon on calling specific people "Rapists" on social media after these so called "Rapes" happened years/decades ago
First off, there has been more evidence showing that the women that are part of this movement are actually telling the truth than doing any sort of "bandwagoning". Also, do you not understand AT ALL why it takes so long to come out and accuse someone's rapist? I'm going to assume this answer is no.

It doesn't belong on FaceBook, nor Twitter, nor MySpace (how many people even still use MySpace?) , it belongs being brought to the attention of the law and going to court if there is any legitimacy to their claims.
For someone who posts so much about "freedom of speech", you seem to be sorely against any sort of freedom in that regard. And yes, it does belong on social media so people's rapists who DON'T get justice in the court system will at least get justice when confronting other people who know of the rapist from social media.

It's like where was everybody's voices years ago?
Possibly somewhere hidden when traumatized by sexual assault/rape?

I mean it's kinda Akin to how "A Charlie Brown Thanksgiving" is suddenly viewed as "Racist" when it wasnt viewed as Racist for 40 odd years, I mean what's next on this long line of viewing seemingly everything as suddenly being Racist or supporting "rape culture"
You realize that things change? You wouldn't know this without paying attention in elementary school, but slaves were considered "objects". With your logic, and the amount of years of when slavery was socially accepted, they still should've been considered objects because "they were viewed this way for hundreds of years, so why change?!?"

I can imagine regoing through the details of such a traumatic experience would probably be a terrible thing for the victims to have to go through over again, but that is the cost of coming forward and being able to charge the rapist to the fullest extent of the law, which actually accomplishes things
Until you go through it yourself, you can't really tell a person who HAS gone through it that they shouldn't care about their own mentality, their mental health, and the potential of retraumatization to basically suck it up and come forward immediately after it happens. It'd be great if the victim could, but that's not what happens after being severely traumatized. Usually this type of trauma of a sexual nature is a permanent impact/scar on someone's life.

Not to even mention there are tons of people that are underage who ALSO go through this type of trauma and are more easily manipulated to believe that nothing will happen, either by viewing what happens in the news to rapists who get very little to no justice, or get threatened in some way (and unfortunately believe it due to being impressionable in this mental state).

Wow. Just freaking wow man.

If you're a serious actress you HAVE to fuck someone to get a job or just give up your dreams and what your good at and go wait tables or something else that makes you miserable and live with the "I could've been..." the rest of your life?

Do you even REALIZE half of what you say sometimes, dude?

Because 99% of the time you come off like a troll. I usually try to avoid your threads because you are CONSISTENTLY negative about EVERYTHING. (And woefully misinformed about half of it.)
Basically all of this. ^^
 

SorcerorElf

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In a democratic society it's only natural that laws dictating moral behavior are defined by cultural views. What other options do we have, short of a high priest declaring our moral laws?
Therein lies the problem - if a minority group gains enough power, they can impose their views on the majority of a culture/group if the majority are unable or unwilling to do otherwise. If the imposing group doesn't have enough supporters, it will most likely fall apart. In some cases this lack of supporters is bad (such as what the #MeToo is trying to address), or in some cases good (such as in the US when segregation laws were overturned). However, this is just my opinion.
 

BabyTyrant

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Well, in areas with statute of limitations (like many if not all of The United States) waiting too long in a rape case is a big reason why the Rapists recieve such little punishments, after all they dont want people to do EXACTLY what happened in the Bill Cosby case

By which I mean "he raped me 40 years ago" , and then they have to say "sorry sister, you waited 35 years too late"

And i didn't say that all of these victims on social media are making it up, but it sure is a possibility when the accused "Rapist" has millions of dollars.
 

dogboy

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I never told anyone that I was sexually molested because I assumed it was my fault, being in the wrong place and being drunk or stoned. Later, because I was known to have had a boyfriend throughout most of college, it seemed to give liscense to other gay males to hit on me just because they knew my past.

I suspect some males operate the same way. If they know an actress or employee has put out for some other person, she can damn well put out for them, or so they think. Everyone should know how wrong that is.
 

BabyTyrant

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And I never said Rape/Sexual Assault isnt wrong; I'm just saying there is a better way to handle it (actually accuse the offender and try to get them arrested and charged) and a wrong way, which is #MeToo, one thing with everyone saying "they raped me" online is one would think it would lose meaning and insensitize people to it like "oh another rape happened, what can we do" not "OMG they got raped, let's actually catch the offender".

Kinda like how The United States seems insensitized to all these public shootings, nobody is argue that these are good things, but it's just a matter of what you can do about them.

And for that matter, let's not go off on a tangent and start arguing in circles.
 

Slomo

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And I never said Rape/Sexual Assault isnt wrong; I'm just saying there is a better way to handle it (actually accuse the offender and try to get them arrested and charged) and a wrong way, which is #MeToo, one thing with everyone saying "they raped me" online is one would think it would lose meaning and insensitize people to it like "oh another rape happened, what can we do" not "OMG they got raped, let's actually catch the offender".

Kinda like how The United States seems insensitized to all these public shootings, nobody is argue that these are good things, but it's just a matter of what you can do about them.

And for that matter, let's not go off on a tangent and start arguing in circles.
You're still not understanding it. Those women who were raped either DID try speaking out and were shut down, or knew others who were so they knew they COULDN'T speak up. The #metoo movement is giving them that collective online voice so everyone online can finally push administrators, cops, etc to finally get those abused women their justice.

Your analogy for gun violence is a good one too. For so long we have been desensitized to it that no changes were ever made. Only more recently have the victims really started to band together so they too have a collective voice enough to finally be heard. And only now are some small things being change to at least try and reduce that gun violence some.
 

Drifter

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We all know that men, in general, have a strong tendency to be sexually aggressive. Laws aren't going to change that. We have laws against rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment, and most men have enough social sense to avoid crossing the line. For the ones that do get caught crossing the line the penalties can be severe, but that line has become kind of a hazy today.

In the past, western society relied on an implicit code of moral conduct for men and women that helped reduce the chances of sexual assault occurring. Today, many people see that moral code as sexist and too old fashioned to be of any use in the modern world because it has it's roots in the idealistic "age of chivalry". Like everything else, society is in a constant state of change, and this includes changes to what is seen as morally acceptable behavior. We are currently in a state of limbo as we reject the old fashioned moral code of conduct, but we don't know, or don't agree on, what to replace it with.

Maybe it's just me, but one of the problems I see is that the new moral code we seem to be moving towards is a little one sided. The old code had fairly strict, behavioral guidelines for both men and women. The new guidelines are still aimed at getting men to curb their natural, predatory instincts, of course, but I don't hear much talk about behavioral guidelines for women (or men, as dogboy points out) to lessen their chance of becoming victims of sexual aggression.
 

Slomo

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We all know that men, in general, have a strong tendency to be sexually aggressive. Laws aren't going to change that. We have laws against rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment, and most men have enough social sense to avoid crossing the line. For the ones that do get caught crossing the line the penalties can be severe, but that line has become kind of a hazy today.

In the past, western society relied on an implicit code of moral conduct for men and women that helped reduce the chances of sexual assault occurring. Today, many people see that moral code as sexist and too old fashioned to be of any use in the modern world because it has it's roots in the idealistic "age of chivalry". Like everything else, society is in a constant state of change, and this includes changes to what is seen as morally acceptable behavior. We are currently in a state of limbo as we reject the old fashioned moral code of conduct, but we don't know, or don't agree on, what to replace it with.

Maybe it's just me, but one of the problems I see is that the new moral code we seem to be moving towards is a little one sided. The old code had fairly strict, behavioral guidelines for both men and women. The new guidelines are still aimed at getting men to curb their natural, predatory instincts, of course, but I don't hear much talk about behavioral guidelines for women (or men, as dogboy points out) to lessen their chance of becoming victims of sexual aggression.
Are you kidding, or just trolling? As a guy I've seen it enough myself what the "moral code" allowed men to get away with before. From grabbing, to forcefully kissing, to yeah even raping them. It's the same "morality" that men like Cosby and Drumpf have boasted about to this day. And when it did happen the blame was all to often put on women for "dressing too revealingly" or "not having high enough morals themselves". It was/is utter bs, and implimented by men who wanted nothing more than to protect other men so they all could behave that way.

Seriously try listening to yourself for a bit. "Behavioural guidelines for women to lessen their chance of becomming victims of sexual aggression". Like it's somehow their fault for becomming a victim of someone elses sexual aggression. Your statement right there is exactly why the #metoo movement even exists in the first place.
 

BabyTyrant

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So I see my point of things that are ALWAYS IN FRONT OF YOU losing meaning went right over your head, anything that happens is more of a surprise/exciting (if the thing is question is a good thing) the 1st time around, by the time something has happened 1000 times it loses meaning and no longer is really any kind of news.

#MeToo is sort of making it obvious people are getting raped to the extent there couldn't possibly be anything good coming of it by itself; now if the victims decide to come forward; that is the only time something good comes of it; accusing a serial rapist outside of the legal system is very unlikely to make Him/Her stop (as I'm sure there are probably Women that have been sexually aggressive, you just wouldn't hear about it as much as the typical "Male Rapist/Female Victim" scenario).

And the whole "I'm a strong woman, I dont need your help" thing some of these women have these days is ridiculous; it's not that the guys think the Women cant do anything themselves, it's just an old fashioned "Gentlemans code" or put another way I guess you could say its chivalry.
 

Slomo

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So I see my point of things that are ALWAYS IN FRONT OF YOU losing meaning went right over your head, anything that happens is more of a surprise/exciting (if the thing is question is a good thing) the 1st time around, by the time something has happened 1000 times it loses meaning and no longer is really any kind of news.

#MeToo is sort of making it obvious people are getting raped to the extent there couldn't possibly be anything good coming of it by itself; now if the victims decide to come forward; that is the only time something good comes of it; accusing a serial rapist outside of the legal system is very unlikely to make Him/Her stop (as I'm sure there are probably Women that have been sexually aggressive, you just wouldn't hear about it as much as the typical "Male Rapist/Female Victim" scenario).

And the whole "I'm a strong woman, I dont need your help" thing some of these women have these days is ridiculous; it's not that the guys think the Women cant do anything themselves, it's just an old fashioned "Gentlemans code" or put another way I guess you could say its chivalry.
You seem to think that, and yet the proof of soooo many still having to come forward proves otherwise. You also seem to still be missing the point here too. Our legal system has not been making men stop raping women. If anything, it was encouraging it before (again, Cosby and Drumpf as example). By going outside the legal system and bringing it into the light those women actually are making it stop for once (again Cosby as example, and lets seriously hope Drumpf soon too). So your argument that it isn't helping is already proven false.
 

BabyTyrant

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Well, going back to the Cosby case, many of those claims were along the lines of "he raped me 30 years ago" , and when many of the victims are so far back there is not much the law can do at the point in The United States, sure in other countries that may be different, but in the end Cosby seemed to have only got in legal trouble because of the number of victims (idk how many were actually proven) and that at least 1 was within statute of limitation range (as it was in PA which has 12 years, which is way longer than NYs 5, idk how long other states give), sure people may know rapes do happen now, but that's only IF they were Blind before.

Anyone with a brain should have realized Rape has probably been happening for thousands of years, we shouldn't need social media as a platform to tell people that; much like most people know mass shootings in public locations (Many of them schools) have been happening for over 20 years now.

It's not that nobody had a voice until 2018, it's that they never used it; and that is why nothing happens, ever heard the phrase "the squeaky wheel gets oiled first" it means the problems PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT get tended to 1st; nobody can help victims that are gonna stay silent, because they wont know that any crime happened to them.
 

Slomo

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Well, going back to the Cosby case, many of those claims were along the lines of "he raped me 30 years ago" , and when many of the victims are so far back there is not much the law can do at the point in The United States, sure in other countries that may be different, but in the end Cosby seemed to have only got in legal trouble because of the number of victims (idk how many were actually proven) and that at least 1 was within statute of limitation range (as it was in PA which has 12 years, which is way longer than NYs 5, idk how long other states give), sure people may know rapes do happen now, but that's only IF they were Blind before.

Anyone with a brain should have realized Rape has probably been happening for thousands of years, we shouldn't need social media as a platform to tell people that; much like most people know mass shootings in public locations (Many of them schools) have been happening for over 20 years now.

It's not that nobody had a voice until 2018, it's that they never used it; and that is why nothing happens, ever heard the phrase "the squeaky wheel gets oiled first" it means the problems PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT get tended to 1st; nobody can help victims that are gonna stay silent, because they wont know that any crime happened to them.
Try again. My sister was raped, and quite forcibly too. She absolutely did report it to the police, and also reported she knew where the guy lived. Except the police didn't even respond. She then went into the precint to report it, and it wasn't even until the officer in charge got involved did they even start taking things somewhat seriously. And yet, not once did they even go to question they guy.

When I got home from the usmc boot camp I couldn't believe what I was hearing. The very next day I took my car to his house and confronted him about it. He ran, so I called the cops while chasing his ass down. Only then did they finally take him in. Because a man with a voice spoke up for woman without one.

So what you believe is a complete understatement. Women simply did not have a voice 10-20 years ago. The #metoo movement has been changing that by bypassing the legal system and bringing into the public view, and is why you have so many woment from back then coming forward- again. Because back then, nobody would listen. So you think you're slightly annoyed with hearing about it? Try stepping back and think how "annoyed" they were before the movement.
 

CrinklyConnor

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Anyone with a brain should have realized Rape has probably been happening for thousands of years, we shouldn't need social media as a platform to tell people that

It's not that nobody had a voice until 2018, it's that they never used it; and that is why nothing happens,
You’re right. We shouldn’t need social media, and you’re right that nothing happens.

Because people with your line of thinking is why nothing happens, because you immediately assume the woman is lying if she had a memory lapse caused by the trauma, or that she was drunk, or that the way she was dressed meant she was “asking for it”.

THAT is why nothing gets done.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

BabyTyrant

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There you go saying things I never said, not every wouldbe victim can be believed , theres such a thing in human history called "lying" and another thing called "greed", I have been scammed on eBay before as a seller, so you are trying to tell me theres no way a Sexual Assault "Victim" would lie when they could try to coerce money out of people with a net worth of MILLIONS of dollars?

I didn't know anyone was that gullible.

Now I'm not saying nobody is a victim, but surely some of them are guilty of chasing after some rich guys bank account; same as just because people got shot doesn't mean they didn't deserve it, not everybody is a victim same as not everybody is a saint that doesn't tell lies.
 

Slomo

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There you go saying things I never said, not every wouldbe victim can be believed , theres such a thing in human history called "lying" and another thing called "greed", I have been scammed on eBay before as a seller, so you are trying to tell me theres no way a Sexual Assault "Victim" would lie when they could try to coerce money out of people with a net worth of MILLIONS of dollars?

I didn't know anyone was that gullible.

Now I'm not saying nobody is a victim, but surely some of them are guilty of chasing after some rich guys bank account; same as just because people got shot doesn't mean they didn't deserve it, not everybody is a victim same as not everybody is a saint that doesn't tell lies.
Are you really trying to equate the severity of rape allegations to being scammed on ebay? Come one man, you're better than that.

Though for what it's worth, Ebay takes all scam allegations seriously, even the baseless ones. Too bad the police don't take all rape allegations seriosly.
 

Drifter

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Seriously try listening to yourself for a bit. "Behavioural guidelines for women to lessen their chance of becomming victims of sexual aggression". Like it's somehow their fault for becomming a victim of someone elses sexual aggression. Your statement right there is exactly why the #metoo movement even exists in the first place.
My whole point is, if you don't understand the problem how can you hope to solve it?

For the last 40 years the women's movement was aimed at getting equality for women and getting away from the notion that women are the weaker sex and need men to take care of them. Most people are on board with this, but some want to know exactly what "equality" means in this context and how to achieve it. And, of course, there are those that still believe women need help from men in order to succeed in life. There may be a grain of truth in that. In one of the posts below you yourself bragged "Because a man with a voice spoke up for woman without one."

If the purpose of the #MeToo movement is to make women the winners and men the losers in some imaginary battle of the sexes, then I don't support it. If it's purpose is to circumvent due process and penalize people through mob justice, then I don't support it. If it's purpose is to get revenge for perceived wrongs in the past, then I don't support it. The movement no doubt started out with good intentions, and addresses a very real problem that needs to be dealt with, but a social media platform will almost certainly become buried in the kind of useless, political rhetoric that does nothing for us except increase the senseless divisiveness we are already plagued with, leading to unintended consequences. Example from a Dec 4th Washington Post article: "A recent Bloomberg News headline came as no surprise: “Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost”". That may not be a law, but it will be the attitude of some of those in power.

"Blaming the victim" might make a good, negative, campaign slogan, but it shouldn't be used as a substitute for common sense. Doing things to reduce your chances of becoming a victim of crime in no way legitimizes the crime. Pointing out careless behavior is not the same as blaming the victim for the crime.
 

Slomo

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My whole point is, if you don't understand the problem how can you hope to solve it?

For the last 40 years the women's movement was aimed at getting equality for women and getting away from the notion that women are the weaker sex and need men to take care of them. Most people are on board with this, but some want to know exactly what "equality" means in this context and how to achieve it. And, of course, there are those that still believe women need help from men in order to succeed in life. There may be a grain of truth in that. In one of the posts below you yourself bragged "Because a man with a voice spoke up for woman without one."

If the purpose of the #MeToo movement is to make women the winners and men the losers in some imaginary battle of the sexes, then I don't support it. If it's purpose is to circumvent due process and penalize people through mob justice, then I don't support it. If it's purpose is to get revenge for perceived wrongs in the past, then I don't support it. The movement no doubt started out with good intentions, and addresses a very real problem that needs to be dealt with, but a social media platform will almost certainly become buried in the kind of useless, political rhetoric that does nothing for us except increase the senseless divisiveness we are already plagued with, leading to unintended consequences. Example from a Dec 4th Washington Post article: "A recent Bloomberg News headline came as no surprise: “Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost”". That may not be a law, but it will be the attitude of some of those in power.

"Blaming the victim" might make a good, negative, campaign slogan, but it shouldn't be used as a substitute for common sense. Doing things to reduce your chances of becoming a victim of crime in no way legitimizes the crime. Pointing out careless behavior is not the same as blaming the victim for the crime.
First, getting the law to recognize and react to rape is nowhere near the same as equal rights for women. That has been the whole problem, and the #metoo movement is what's fixing it. Second, I wasn't bragging. Meerly stating what conditions were like 20 years ago when men truly were given a voice and women weren't. Of which it's worth noting, again, the #metoo movement has been helping to fix, and of which I'm glad to support.

This has never been about making winners and loosers, nor is it about revenge. Only ensuring equal justice is applied in the eyes of the law. And like I've already said, it doesn't circumvent due process, it ensures due process by making sure the law takes appropriate action in the first place.

I also read that artice too. And if you had as well you would have noted the guy who was afraid to approach women openly admitted he was and still is a womanizer, with past problems of sexually harrasing women. He was right to finally be scared of approaching women like that. If anything, his story showcases the current success of the movement and gives good cause to continue it untill others like yourself come to realise that as well.
 

BabyTyrant

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Im simply saying if people are petty enough to try to scam people over a 30-$35 video game, obviously there are people out there that would make baseless accusations for $ when the person they accused is a millionaire.

Plus how is it that accusations online have more weight than reports in real life all of a sudden?

I'm sure they could have been equally effective back then if they went to the police in Angry Mob form and demanded to talk to the sheriff instead of Wingus and Dingus.
 
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