American Left and Right

PaddedStag

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Well I for one know Trump apparently had commentary about 1 or 2 Violent Gangs that originated South of The Border and as immigrants came from some of those countries, some of them were gang members of some sort and brought the gang activies with them

I think one of them was MS13 which was in the news at one point because one of its members had been charged with murdering some young boy because the gang "owned him" and could do anything with his Life

It doesn't seem like a bad idea to carefully screen immigrants that may be bringing trouble with them; not everyone is what they appear to be; which can go both in good ways and bad ways.
Sadly, MS13 has been in America far longer than Trump has been POTUS. While right at the top of the most violent of gangs, anywhere, they're hardly alone.

There's a ton of things Trump has done in his life that I do not agree with or support. I'm certainly no blind-follower of the Man.

That doesn't mean everything he says is wrong, however.

I keep referring to the 'MAGA' hat/cap/clothing reaction so many of the SJW's express, as one example.

Who, living IN 'America', doesn't want to see our Country be 'Great'?

Hmmm?...

:)

lol

Anyways, moving-on.
 

PaddedStag

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It "seems" like that because "SJW" is just another ignorant way to try to stereotype people.


MS-13 was born in the U.S.A.. It's relatively rapid rise to international status was due, in part, to American deportation policies.
Still not certain if you're merely trolling, or actually serious?

'SJW' is what 'SJW' does. Doesn't mandate a skin color, religion, Country. Same with 'Antifa', and even the worse elements of the 'Proud Boys'.

Anyone who restricts the Rights of others whom they don't share an opinion, is crossing the line in my book.

I keep saying it-

'Respect' is earned, not demanded.

You want it, you show it.

MS13 merely uses America's Immigration topic to serve their own interests. They're a drug-running gang, first. Everything else is just fodder they can pick at.
 
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PaddedStag

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Okay, but still it is a gang that originated with Immigrants, it's too bad that Gangs always seem to "break bad" they always seem to start with good intentions, but then become increasingly violent and whatnot later on
MS13 never began with 'Good Intentions'. The 'Breaking Bad' reference doesn't apply.
 

BabyTyrant

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MS13 never began with 'Good Intentions'. The 'Breaking Bad' reference doesn't apply.
Maybe specifically MS13 and certain others were always bad, but for the majority of gangs it starts out with a few people that have to defend themselves against others in a place where they are outnumbered and wouldn't stand a chance if they didnt band together.

You know, technically speaking if you have 4 people you could be called a "gang"

They called Scooby Doo, Shaggy, and the rest of their crew "The Gang" and they weren't out there committing violent crimes and selling drugs

But any organization (criminal or legit) usually suffers and becomes worse when it changes hands to someone else; few times does any kind of organization start bad and get better (unless it was horrible to begin with)

I know MS13 started as an Organization to protect Immigrants, the problem is when you accept help from someone like that; they aren't helping out of the kindness of their hearts, you owe them something for it

And those that cant "pay up" in Goods, Services, or Money are going to "pay another way"
 
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BabyTyrant

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They were also fictional, and Shaggy was probably smoking Weed anyway so.
Lol, "smoking weed" is nothing like selling drugs, weed has got to be one of the most harmless "drugs" out there and it doesn't make people physically addicted and unable to quit; and therefore likely to rob, steal, and commit crimes to support a drug addiction.

If you wanna call weed a "drug" it's the idiot drug, it makes people silly, stupid, relaxed, and hungry

You wanna talk about drugs that make people into violent criminals; because they have to find a way to get money to do the drugs, you are talking much more hardcore likes like Heroine, Crystal Meth, etc

The fact still remains that 4+ = a "Gang" regardless of if they are actually committing any crimes, that means anybody chilling out with 3 or more friends are technically a "Gang" by definition
 
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dogboy

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I remember when I was teaching 6 years ago, a kid in my class asked if I was ever in a gang. I taught at an inner city school though we were also an applicant school and did a lot with the arts. Anyway, I answered him, "Yes". Then he asked me, "Who was your leader?" I really had to take a moment and think this out because I didn't want to glorify gangs. At the same time I had to be honest with him so I told him, "I was." His eyes got real big, a great way to have quiet in the classroom I guess.

Anyway, I started the gang as a means to not get beat up by the other gangs as there was safety in numbers. We all carried knives so that limited fights, etc., though one day I had to fight a kid who had a machete. I was walking my dog at the time and I said, sic him, and the dog took a chunk out of his leg. My mom got a phone call from his mom that night.

So a lot of gangs start out for reasons of survival, being able to walk the streets. It's a hell of a way for a kid to live. This was back in the 60's when we settled our differences with our fists and there weren't drugs on our streets, at least. All of that has changed. Now gangs exist mostly for distributing and selling drugs as well as self preservation. It's a different world from the days of Westside Story!

Back to topic then: politicians on both the right and the left make a lot of promises they can't keep. We still have the same poverty in our inner cities. If things have changed, it's probably been for the worse, primarily because of illegal drugs. To cure all the problems that exist today, politicians need to stop being liberal or conservative and need to be Americans and U. S. citizens. In other words, they need to really care about all the people they represent, not just some of them.
 

PaddedStag

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Maybe specifically MS13 and certain others were always bad, but for the majority of gangs it starts out with a few people that have to defend themselves against others in a place where they are outnumbered and wouldn't stand a chance if they didnt band together.

You know, technically speaking if you have 4 people you could be called a "gang"

They called Scooby Doo, Shaggy, and the rest of their crew "The Gang" and they weren't out there committing violent crimes and selling drugs

But any organization (criminal or legit) usually suffers and becomes worse when it changes hands to someone else; few times does any kind of organization start bad and get better (unless it was horrible to begin with)

I know MS13 started as an Organization to protect Immigrants, the problem is when you accept help from someone like that; they aren't helping out of the kindness of their hearts, you owe them something for it

And those that cant "pay up" in Goods, Services, or Money are going to "pay another way"
I'm too tired to open the topic of a burgeoning human society's tiniest groupings.
I believe every small community has it's own grouping(s). I think that's just part of the human condition.
From a survival viewpoint it makes sense. Just looking at the once-normal division between the sexes, oh, wait, 'Genders', oh, wait,,, pffft...
Men had their tasks, woman had theirs. Working together they formed communities and then societies, then governments/nations/countries.

People group-up with others who are like minded in things. Survival. Work. Play/Hobby, etc..

I use and think of the word 'Gang(s)' from the perspective of a group doing illegal things for the sole benefit of: themselves.
Gangs do this to the detriment of their own communities/societies, at large. Sure, immediate family/friends may seem benefits (from drugs, money, property, etc.?), but it's all built on a house of cards soaked in gasoline.

Not a healthy way to construct anything of value.
 

BabyTyrant

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I'm too tired to open the topic of a burgeoning human society's tiniest groupings.
I believe every small community has it's own grouping(s). I think that's just part of the human condition.
From a survival viewpoint it makes sense. Just looking at the once-normal division between the sexes, oh, wait, 'Genders', oh, wait,,, pffft...
Men had their tasks, woman had theirs. Working together they formed communities and then societies, then governments/nations/countries.

People group-up with others who are like minded in things. Survival. Work. Play/Hobby, etc..

I use and think of the word 'Gang(s)' from the perspective of a group doing illegal things for the sole benefit of: themselves.
Gangs do this to the detriment of their own communities/societies, at large. Sure, immediate family/friends may seem benefits (from drugs, money, property, etc.?), but it's all built on a house of cards soaked in gasoline.

Not a healthy way to construct anything of value.
Well all gangs eventually turn to illegal activities

But most start out as a way to protect themselves and others like them; such as if you were a minority in a prison

Say you were 1 of 5 Hispanics in an almost completely Black Prison

The 5 band together to protect themselves against the other 95 people in the prison

Sure not every single person in prison is out to Assault other prisoners, but say 5 Blacks got together to Assault 1 of the Hispanic Men

In that scenario the Hispanic Man doesn't stand a chance, but with 4 Homies they can fight back

This is how Gangs start; to protect oneself or others that are vulnerable is not a bad cause

How they always turn bad is that something always happens to the founding Members, the group expands to be huge, and then you cant control everyone;

Even if the leaders tried, if there is 5 founding members and 50,000 recruits, the 5 cant do anything to try to keep them on track to not be violent; drug pushing criminals.
 
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Drifter

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Back to topic then: politicians on both the right and the left make a lot of promises they can't keep. We still have the same poverty in our inner cities. If things have changed, it's probably been for the worse, primarily because of illegal drugs. To cure all the problems that exist today, politicians need to stop being liberal or conservative and need to be Americans and U. S. citizens. In other words, they need to really care about all the people they represent, not just some of them.
Yes, I agree. I'm just trying to figure out a way to make that happen.
 

PaddedStag

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Well all gangs eventually turn to illegal activities

But most start out as a way to protect themselves and others like them; such as if you were a minority in a prison

Say you were 1 of 5 Hispanics in an almost completely Black Prison

The 5 band together to protect themselves against the other 95 people in the prison

Sure not every single person in prison is out to Assault other prisoners, but say 5 Blacks got together to Assault 1 of the Hispanic Men

In that scenario the Hispanic Man doesn't stand a chance, but with 4 Homies they can fight back

This is how Gangs start; to protect oneself or others that are vulnerable is not a bad cause

How they always turn bad is that something always happens to the founding Members, the group expands to be huge, and then you cant control everyone;

Even if the leaders tried, if there is 5 founding members and 50,000 recruits, the 5 cant do anything to try to keep them on track to not be violent; drug pushing criminals.
Prison is a WHOLE different reason for joining a gang.
Cage violent (and even the non-violent) together is a guarantee'd way to instigate every negative trait humanity has.
I once nearly started working as an Officer for the CA Penal System. (Folsom and San Quentin, oh my!). I was within days of being hired and beginning my training when I finally realized:
I have friends who've made it their career(s), after their time in the military (and a few civvies). The stories they share would give you nightmares.
 

BabyTyrant

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Prison is a WHOLE different reason for joining a gang.
Cage violent (and even the non-violent) together is a guarantee'd way to instigate every negative trait humanity has.
I once nearly started working as an Officer for the CA Penal System. (Folsom and San Quentin, oh my!). I was within days of being hired and beginning my training when I finally realized:
I have friends who've made it their career(s), after their time in the military (and a few civvies). The stories they share would give you nightmares.
Prison is where most gangs seem to start, when you are 1 of a few people like you in a prison and you have people that take advantage of you; banding together as a "gang" may give you a reasonable chance of actually surviving okay.
 

PaddedStag

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Prison is where most gangs seem to start, when you are 1 of a few people like you in a prison and you have people that take advantage of you; banding together as a "gang" may give you a reasonable chance of actually surviving okay.
Prison is where most gangs end-up, not 'Start'. They can and do recruit (as was said, people seeking protection from rivals), and yes once those are released back into society, add to their ranks.
 

Near

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I keep referring to the 'MAGA' hat/cap/clothing reaction so many of the SJW's express, as one example.

Who, living IN 'America', doesn't want to see our Country be 'Great'?
The issue that people have with MAGA as a slogan, and find revealing, isn't the first three letters. It's the fourth one.
 

PaddedStag

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The issue that people have with MAGA as a slogan, and find revealing, isn't the first three letters. It's the fourth one.
I'd like to think that, but I've yet to see a single video, or hear a single news story about anyone assaulted for wearing a 'MAGA' anything, were assaulted by someone protesting that sentiment. 'Again' isn't what the criminals are screaming/deriding at the MAGA-Wearer.
I doubt anyone with a working brain cell would deny Trump says a lot, a LOT, of stupid shit.

Nothing Trump has said/done gives anyone a right or authority to attack someone else for wearing an article of clothing.
 

Drifter

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I doubt anyone with a working brain cell would deny Trump says a lot, a LOT, of stupid shit.

Nothing Trump has said/done gives anyone a right or authority to attack someone else for wearing an article of clothing.
I agree. Trump says a lot of dishonest, provocative, childish, and really stupid stupid things. That doesn't give anyone the right to attack someone, but then, people don't need a right to attack someone, do they?

But you're missing the point. MAGA sounds good but is a meaningless and provocative slogan. Don't believe that? Open another thread and ask what "Again" refers to in MAGA.
 
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BabyTyrant

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I agree. Trump says a lot of dishonest, provocative, childish, and really stupid stupid things. That doesn't give anyone the right to attack someone, but then, people don't need a right to attack someone, do they?

But you're missing the point. MAGA sounds good but is a meaningless and provocative slogan. Don't believe that? Open another thread and ask what "Again" refers to in MAGA.
I'm pretty sure it refers to how America used to have these Big Factory Towns that people had good jobs in; people prospered

And then what happened? The jobs got shipped overseas, now you have abandoned factories and whole towns that are in extreme poverty
 

Drifter

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I'm pretty sure it refers to how America used to have these Big Factory Towns that people had good jobs in; people prospered
So America was great during Watergate, Vietnam, campus unrest, race riots, and uncontrolled factory pollution? Maybe you're referring to an earlier time; two world wars, the dust bowl, the depression, Jim Crow laws, women unable to vote, punishing homosexuals with prison or castration, and uncontrolled factory pollution. And then there's our glorious conquest of the west when we continued our attempted genocide of the native population, stripped American settlers of their land if they had Mexican ancestry, and killed off large numbers of American bison in a nearly successful attempt to make it extinct to starve native Americans. But, on the plus side, at least we didn't have so many factories to pollute the environment in the west back then.

Your opinion will no doubt be different, but that's the point. MAGA doesn't specify the time, allowing everyone to imagine their own magic time when America was great, assuming they fall for that nonsense. We had problems back then and we have problems now. Worshiping some fairy-tale past isn't going to solve our problems today. Apparently, people that fall for MAGA don't realize that.
 

BabyTyrant

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So America was great during Watergate, Vietnam, campus unrest, race riots, and uncontrolled factory pollution? Maybe you're referring to an earlier time; two world wars, the dust bowl, the depression, Jim Crow laws, women unable to vote, punishing homosexuals with prison or castration, and uncontrolled factory pollution. And then there's our glorious conquest of the west when we continued our attempted genocide of the native population, stripped American settlers of their land if they had Mexican ancestry, and killed off large numbers of American bison in a nearly successful attempt to make it extinct to starve native Americans. But, on the plus side, at least we didn't have so many factories to pollute the environment in the west back then.

Your opinion will no doubt be different, but that's the point. MAGA doesn't specify the time, allowing everyone to imagine their own magic time when America was great, assuming they fall for that nonsense. We had problems back then and we have problems now. Worshiping some fairy-tale past isn't going to solve our problems today. Apparently, people that fall for MAGA don't realize that.
I dont claim that American History was full of greatness for everyone

There were many points that were terrible to one or more groups of people; but the point still remains that I think Trump refers to Americas "Greatness" or lack thereof in a Financial sense.

In the past you had jobs that paid close to today's wages; but everything was way cheaper; leading to a better life (financially)

If 30 years ago you made 75% what you did today, but your bills were only 50% as much, that means you had an easier life (financially) 30 years ago
 
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