Ageplayers vs Littles: The parallel with transsexuality

Status
Not open for further replies.

Albasion

Est. Contributor
Messages
330
Role
  1. Adult Baby
  2. Diaper Lover
I just had a very interesting idea.

Not long ago, we were having a discussion about different types of AB's, and some definitions related to them. One of the distinctions that came up was related to the way people feel about themselves in the role of a young child. Some AB's, like me, feel that they are role-playing because they enjoy it, but don't feel like they actually are a young child and wouldn't choose to actually become a child again if they could. Some AB's, however, DO see themselves as an actual child, just in a grown person's body. The definitions are somewhat unclear, but for clarity, let's call the people who like role-playing as a young child ageplayers and the people who feel that they actually are a young child littles.

Before we continue, let's dive into another world. There are men in this world who like to dress up like a woman, put on make-up, wear high heels and all of that stuff. They are called transvestites; most male transvestites identify as a man, but nevertheless really enjoy pretending that they are a woman. On the other hand, some biological men feel that they are actually women, born in the wrong body, and they often search treatment to actually, physically, become the woman they feel they are. They are called transsexuals, and they're significantly different from transvestites.

Now let's apply this to the situation in the AB world. Ageplayers, like transvestites, enjoy acting and dressing like someone they actually aren't. They love to play pretend. Sometimes it's sexual, sometimes it's not, but it's always a very important part of who they are. However, they don't mind going back to their everyday life, and they're not bothered by their everyday body.

On the other hand, littles, like transsexuals, actually want to be someone they're physically not. They feel that they are in the wrong body, and they want to adopt a completely different lifestyle from the one society expects them to have.

The point I am trying to make is this: Ageplayers are the AB equivalent of transvestites, and Littles are the AB equivalent of transsexuals.

At least, that's what I think. If I'm right, this means that my previous post about AB's, littles and ageplayers being pretty much the same thing was wrong. Also, if I'm right, it's probably important to make this a semi-official distinction, so everyone can find his or her place and understand each other a bit more. But of course, more research on the subject is needed first. Also, I'd like to know what you guys think. Brilliant idea, load of crap, or somewhere in between?
 

ForeverSmall

Est. Contributor
Messages
554
Role
  1. Other
I just had a very interesting idea.

Not long ago, we were having a discussion about different types of AB's, and some definitions related to them. One of the distinctions that came up was related to the way people feel about themselves in the role of a young child. Some AB's, like me, feel that they are role-playing because they enjoy it, but don't feel like they actually are a young child and wouldn't choose to actually become a child again if they could. Some AB's, however, DO see themselves as an actual child, just in a grown person's body. The definitions are somewhat unclear, but for clarity, let's call the people who like role-playing as a young child ageplayers and the people who feel that they actually are a young child littles.

Before we continue, let's dive into another world. There are men in this world who like to dress up like a woman, put on make-up, wear high heels and all of that stuff. They are called transvestites; most male transvestites identify as a man, but nevertheless really enjoy pretending that they are a woman. On the other hand, some biological men feel that they are actually women, born in the wrong body, and they often search treatment to actually, physically, become the woman they feel they are. They are called transsexuals, and they're significantly different from transvestites.

Now let's apply this to the situation in the AB world. Ageplayers, like transvestites, enjoy acting and dressing like someone they actually aren't. They love to play pretend. Sometimes it's sexual, sometimes it's not, but it's always a very important part of who they are. However, they don't mind going back to their everyday life, and they're not bothered by their everyday body.

On the other hand, littles, like transsexuals, actually want to be someone they're physically not. They feel that they are in the wrong body, and they want to adopt a completely different lifestyle from the one society expects them to have.

The point I am trying to make is this: Ageplayers are the AB equivalent of transvestites, and Littles are the AB equivalent of transsexuals.

At least, that's what I think. If I'm right, this means that my previous post about AB's, littles and ageplayers being pretty much the same thing was wrong. Also, if I'm right, it's probably important to make this a semi-official distinction, so everyone can find his or her place and understand each other a bit more. But of course, more research on the subject is needed first. Also, I'd like to know what you guys think. Brilliant idea, load of crap, or somewhere in between?

Well more or less this is what I have been trying to say for about a year now. The only thing to point out is that transgender would be the correct word NOT transexual.

From my website:
What Do We Mean When We Say "Age"?:
“One is only as old as they feel...”

Lets start by breaking down some definitions:

"Age Identity"- a person's private sense, and subjective experience, of their own age. All societies have a set of age identities that can serve as the basis of the formation of a social identity in relation to other members of society. In most societies, there is a basic division between age attributes assigned to the different age identities. Society assigns age identities on the basis of one's chronological age and appearance. One's age identity is no more attached to their chronological age than gender or sexual orientation is to one's biological sex. Some mainstream examples of age identies are: baby, toddler, child, teen, young adult, adult, senior, and super senior. There are however, other age idenities outside the typical spectrum which are important to ABDL*s such as

"Assigned Age Identity/Age Group"- Socially constructed labels given involuntarily to individuals based on their outward appearance.
Example: A male person appears to be about 45 years of chronological age, is labeled as a "middle-aged man".

"Mental Age/Mentality"- used in more of a clinical/legal sense to convey the equivalent level of one's mental function compared to others of the same chronological age.
Example: A chronologically aged male of 45 years who has a mental age of 2 would most likely be described as being severely functionally impaired and unable to live independently.

"Chronological Age"- someone's age as counted from birth.
Example someone born in 1990 is chronologically 23 years old in the year 2013.

“Age non-conformity”- defined most simply as behaviors and self-expression that does not conform to the social expectations for one’s assigned age identity.
Example: Thumb sucking that continues past preschool.

“Age-dysphoria”- sadness and general sense of unease in individuals that feel that their age identity is not in line with their body or the way they are percieved by others. Individuals experiencing age dysphoria essentially feel that the world sees treats them as an if they were stuck in the wrong age.




So what do all these words mean? Ultimately the word “age” by itself is meaningless without context. Age non-conformity explains the motivations and behaviors of some individuals within the ABDL* spectrum very well. While a great number of ABDL*s consider themselves adults, and their ABDL* behaviors as simply a fetish, there are others withing the community who consider themselves to be outside the typical socially constructed age groups. For this subset of ABDL*s, there is a disconnect between their age identity and their physical body that leads to a phenomenon called “age dysphoria”. While there are some individuals who identify as babies/children 100% of the time, there are also age identity equivalents of the more fluid gender identities that exist such as: genderqueer, bigender, agender.... The author of this website himself identifies as agequeer because his behaviors and self-expression are a blend of different age norms and are quite fluid. Fluidity means essentially the same thing with regard to age as it does with gender with the exception of the fact that fluidity is no longer the opposite of being static. Static is the cultural norm for gender whereas for age it is not. The majority of the human race does not have a static age identity, instead it is for the most part a linear progression also known as “growing up”. Fluidity in an age related sense means moving between characteristics of age identities in no particular order.

So in a nutshell, saying someone else is "20 years old" doesn't really carry a lot of meaning. There are several different types of ages one can have and none of them have to match up with one another. Most importantly though, age identity is not always visible and only the individual can know with certainty what their own personal age identity is.



An Few Possible Examples Of Age:

Chronological Age: 21

Assigned Age Identity: Young Adult

Age-identity: agequeer

Mental Age: 28 (28/21*100= 138IQ)
 

wyatt

Est. Contributor
Messages
397
Role
  1. Adult Baby
  2. Diaper Lover
  3. Little
Good post! I'm curious tho what is the difference between a little and a AB? From what i have learned a age player is some one who enjoys to dress up and play at a younger age.
Please correct me if I'm wrong
 

ShAd0w10

Est. Contributor
Messages
424
Age
30
Role
  1. Adult Baby
  2. Diaper Lover
  3. Little
  4. Carer
Interesting you posted this. I've talked about the same thing with my cross-dressing friend before he went to basic training, he told me that he likes to dress and act like a girl and I opened up a little and told him that I like dressing and acting little. We talked for awhile about literally everything you said in this post. Though, I do feel like I could describe myself as "little" more than an "ageplayer".
 

Albasion

Est. Contributor
Messages
330
Role
  1. Adult Baby
  2. Diaper Lover
Well more or less this is what I have been trying to say for about a year now. The only thing to point out is that transgender would be the correct word NOT transexual.

I was actually not sure which of the two was correct. Not everyone seems to agree on the definitions of the two words... now, where have I seen that before? Anyway, thanks for the lengthy and thorough post, very interesting :)

Good post! I'm curious tho what is the difference between a little and a AB? From what i have learned a age player is some one who enjoys to dress up and play at a younger age.
Please correct me if I'm wrong

Not everyone agrees, but AB is the most generally used term for everything related. It's kind of a misnomer, since most 'AB's' are actually more like adult toddlers, but nevertheless in my mind it serves as a catch-all term for all ageplayers, littles and people with related feelings. The word 'ageplayer' is possibly even more ill-defined, so I'm not really going to do over all the possible things someone could mean by it... but in the first post, I explained what I mean by it. :)

Though, I do feel like I could describe myself as "little" more than an "ageplayer".

Out of sheer curiosity: why?
 

wyatt

Est. Contributor
Messages
397
Role
  1. Adult Baby
  2. Diaper Lover
  3. Little
I agree with shadow10
After reading about the differences between a AB and little I feel more like a little then a AB.
I read that a little is basicly some one who has felt like they were born with these feelings and feel like they are an adult with a child mindset that is grown up enough to deal with everyday life.

Iv always felt like i have had these disires since i was little like age 3 or 4 i remember trying to put on a diaper at day care and getting caught and I always wanted to play with the baby's and help feed them rather then play with kids my own age.even now I get emotionally attached to things like stuffed animals and friends .

Sorry albasion for kinda hijacking your thread i apologize, just wanted to answer.
 

Zendot

Est. Contributor
Messages
389
Role
  1. Adult Baby
  2. Diaper Lover
  3. Little
I fought about this exact same thing for the first time a few months and thought that should post about it sometime, but yeah I agree completely with this comparison. Also by this definition I identify as an ageplayer.

Edit: Btw I also felt like using diapers or rather feel like a baby as early as 3 or 4 years old.
 

ShAd0w10

Est. Contributor
Messages
424
Age
30
Role
  1. Adult Baby
  2. Diaper Lover
  3. Little
  4. Carer
Out of sheer curiosity: why?

Pretty much what Wiatt said.
vvv

I agree with shadow10
After reading about the differences between a AB and little I feel more like a little then a AB.
I read that a little is basically some one who has felt like they were born with these feelings and feel like they are an adult with a child mindset that is grown up enough to deal with everyday life.

Iv always felt like i have had these desires since i was little like age 3 or 4 i remember trying to put on a diaper at day care and getting caught and I always wanted to play with the baby's and help feed them rather then play with kids my own age.even now I get emotionally attached to things like stuffed animals and friends .
 

dogboy

Est. Contributor
Messages
21,196
Role
  1. Adult Baby
  2. Diaper Lover
I like your analogy, and I think it works well. Rosalie Bent talks about this early on in her book, "There's a Baby In My Bed". Since the books deals with adult babies, she mentions age players in passing, and spends the entire discussion on adult babies, who regress. Regression is a genuine mental phenomenon, controlled by some deep seeded need, where age playing is more by conscious choice.
 

dolphin4

Contributor
Messages
10
Role
  1. Little
  2. Carer
I think ageplay is an activity with at least 4 types: 1. is character AP, 2 emotionally real IK. then there are sexual and not sexual versions of each of the above. Character AP is people whole just like to role-play. Type 2 is more of a real mental thing.
 

ozbub

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,735
Role
  1. Adult Baby
  2. Little
I can see the correlation that the OP is making and I have considered the same myself, but in considering my own situation, I am neither an age player nor do I feel an age dysphoria (a baby trapped in an adult body - except perhaps, and only, when I am in a regressed state) I think this is the significant distinction.

I do feel that I have always been this way, and that it's not simply a game I play, but that I genuinely regress psychologically - then I can feel that sense of dysphoria, but only then.

From what I understand this is quite different from someone who is genuinely transgendered where the sensation is 24/7. I guess it is possible for someone to feel a genuine sense of age dysphoria but I wonder how they reconcile that against their adult capabilities....that doesn't quite add up for me.

Regression however, seems somewhat different .... an entirely other psychological process taking place, nonetheless very real for that person, but different I'd think to the situation of the transgendered person.

Not being transgendered, I am only surmising....apologies to those more qualified than I.

I think the correlation between an AP who's just dressing up for fun and kicks, and a transvestite might be a plausible one but beyond that it gets a bit complicated I think.

It is certainly related to identity I'd say, but there's plurality in it for littles I think. The analogy to having a mini me carefully concealed as another part of me is closer to the reality of it.
 
Last edited:

KimbaFoxNatsume

Pokemon Trainer in, err, Training... Pants
Est. Contributor
Messages
3,896
Role
  1. Adult Baby
  2. Diaper Lover
  3. Babyfur
I'm not totally sure which I consider myself... I often think to myself that underneath my adult outer shell lies a small hurt child, but I don't think I'd actually want to physically be a child again. However, what I do and desire seems to stem from a very deep emotional need... If I could spent half of my life acting and being treated like a child and the other half acting and being treated like an adult I'd probably be happy. But I'd say I'm probably closer to ''ageplayer'' than ''little.''
 

KidSpike13

Est. Contributor
Messages
282
Role
  1. Adult Baby
  2. Little
I must say that, from my perspective, the OP provided a great analogy. of course there are those who fall outside or somewhere in between those two sides, and I am far from trying to discredit that or the people who do fall in those, for lack of better terms, "grey areas". that said, I do fall personally in the category that was likened to transgender as opposed to transvestite. I really feel as though I was never meant to physically grow up and I, having thought a lot about this, would practically jump at the opportunity to physically regress/be the kid physically that I am inside. the only growth that I would be hesitant to strip away is that of my knowledge base and memories. That would be a giant burden on my family and friends and would make it very dangerous for me. but voice, height, girth, face, body and facial hair, go ahead and change all that God; I would feel so much more comfortable with my body if it matched who I am inside.
 

TrashPanda

Est. Contributor
Messages
142
Role
  1. Other
I am not sure which category I fit into? I feel like the part of me that is still 3 1/2 years old is a separate identity. It's not quite like MPD because I can control when I go into this mindset and I can pull myself out, although I have never completely gotten into it before. In everyday life I just feel like myself as I am in the moment- a student, coworker, family, or friend. I never identify with a concrete age outside of my toddler personality.
Sometimes I do things to soothe that side of myself but not really indulge. I have a need to nurture the part of myself that is still young.
Saying that it is a personality may not be the correct terminology, but I have other mindsets like this one that I get into sometimes. Another distinct one happens when I become extremely angry- I sort of get this white hot rage and I lose myself for a while before calming down and coming back to reality.
This is all from my personal experience, but maybe the difference between "ageplayer" and "little" is not so black-and-white. I guess I would consider myself a "little."
 

gigglemuffinz

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,598
Role
  1. Private
I've always known that for myself, the feeling of being transgendered and my "Little" feelings are very similar. However, this isn't going to be the best definition and/or work for everyone. There are varying "degrees" of being a Little as far as I've seen around here. I've seen plenty of people who call themselves Little's but have a more casual relationship with it as well.

The problem is I think is that Little tends to point towards the age, as a sort of alternate to adult baby. Both are considered however, ageplaying by the general public I think. So plenty of people who ageplay but not as babies but as older kids will call themselves "Little's" which sort of begs for a completely different word to actually describe feeling similar feelings to gender dysphoria.
 

Cottontail

Sailing, sailing, ...
Est. Contributor
Messages
6,019
Role
  1. Adult Baby
  2. Diaper Lover
  3. Babyfur
  4. Diaperfur
  5. Sissy
I guess I would tend to view "Adult Baby" and "Diaper Lover" as broader classes of things under which distinctions like "Little" fall. Similar arguments erupt when people state that "Diaper Lover" describes a diaper fetish, wherein the term "Love" implies a sexual attraction. But, as we know, there are many here who claim to wear diapers simply because they bring a sense of comfort or security. Do we need yet another label for that group, or are they DLs also? I sort of feel like "Little" is a vain effort to draw a line somewhere down the middle of AB. Yes, it might work for some people, but in the end it's still broken.
 

Geno

Est. Contributor
Messages
806
Role
  1. Adult Baby
  2. Diaper Lover
  3. Carer
There's some interesting ideas going on here, but ultimately they are based on inferences from small comparisons on another type of behavior. Even if parallels can be made, thinking of it as the same sort of model leaves too many questions.

We can come up with 1000+ identities and terms based on each AB/DL's subtleties (or reservations about the label) and we may get 1 or 2 people under each of them. We can make 1000+ "comparisons" to some other types of identities to solely explain it. From a scientific standpoint, it's not only ridiculous but confusing for research or explaining to people what an AB/DL actually is.

People are free to label or call themselves whatever they please, but it's not the point. I'm more interested in characterizing this group. Empiricism is the best tool for this job.

What behaviors can we observe?. We can't observe what everyone feels (though we can take some data from survey and make some generalizations later) so it's needless to consider it at this point of our investigation.

So what behaviors make diaper lovers distinct? What behaviors make so called "Littles" distinct? What behaviors make Adult Babies distinct? Again, this is not about how each feels but how they behave which we can observe.
 

Astatine

Est. Contributor
Messages
131
Role
  1. Private
People are free to label or call themselves whatever they please, but it's not the point. I'm more interested in characterizing this group. Empiricism is the best tool for this job.

If you are going to work empirical, understanding what people call themselves and why is absolutly the point. But I agree with you, some sort of (community based) empirical research, which focuses more on what is actually happening instead of where does it come from etc., needs to be done.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top