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#### BigCountry

Contributor
Since Ellipses tried to come up with a debate about the world being flat, I figured that a much better topic would be the Universe. As we are taught in class, the Universe is constantly growing, and also that it is endless. If it were endless, it wouldn't grow, as something that is endless cannot grow for the reason of being a paradox. If it does have an end, what would happen when you reached it?

I figured this would be a much better topic for debate.

#### dinorider

Est. Contributor
I'm no physicist by any means, but one theory I've heard is that if you could indeed reach the end of the universe (assuming there is such a thing) you would just reach something else. Maybe the other side of this universe, or another universe in another dimension.

Now this is just me theorizing on something I don't know much about, but isn't it possible that the universe isn't linear, making it possible for it to expand even though it's infinite?

#### BigCountry

Contributor
It's still a contradiction though; to be infinite means it never ends, according to Euclidean Geometry anyway. (Let's keep it to that too... no need to confuse 99% of the teenagers that get on here.) If that were the case, then it would have no end to build on, so even if it wasn't linear, it's still a contradiction.

"A contradiction cannot exist in reality. Not in part, nor in whole." (by no means said by any scientist that I am aware of...)

#### dinorider

Est. Contributor
Ok, let's look at it this way. The universe in infinite in space. What's in that space doesn't occupy all of it, and will never be able to. That gives it the chance to forever expand in that space, and as such constantly grow.

Now, that would be defining the universe as the space and not the matter in that space, and I don't know if that can be done, but it would solve the problem.

#### Valentine

It's still a contradiction though; to be infinite means it never ends, according to Euclidean Geometry anyway. (Let's keep it to that too... no need to confuse 99% of the teenagers that get on here.) If that were the case, then it would have no end to build on, so even if it wasn't linear, it's still a contradiction.

"A contradiction cannot exist in reality. Not in part, nor in whole." (by no means said by any scientist that I am aware of...)

Note that some infinities are bigger than others.

And you can always have infinity plus 1.

#### BigCountry

Contributor
Only if you narrow it down to that vision, but what about that space that isn't taken up, what reigns outside of it? See, therein lies the problem with this... is it just the universe or a vast nothingness where nothing exists, and if so, and the universe, even the empty space of the universe, is growing into it, where does that nothingness go, or rather not go?

And why is no one else interested in this?

And yes Valentine, that would be the case, as squares of integers are half as infinite as the integers themselves. (another contradiction in what we are taught, as it is similar to this; If it takes you an hour to dig a hole, how long does it take to dig half a hole?)

#### dinorider

Est. Contributor
Only if you narrow it down to that vision, but what about that space that isn't taken up, what reigns outside of it? See, therein lies the problem with this... is it just the universe or a vast nothingness where nothing exists, and if so, and the universe, even the empty space of the universe, is growing into it, where does that nothingness go, or rather not go?

The space that isn't occupied is just that, empty, unoccupied space. I don't see a problem in that space being infinite, as in going on forever without anything else to come after it. It only supports the idea that the matter in the universe has the room to keep expanding.

If you believe in the existence of other universes and dimensions it doesn't matter that it's infinite in our dimension. The "something else" you seem to be looking for is the presence of those dimensions.

#### Fire2box

Est. Contributor
No one is interested in it since none of us will see the end of the universe let alone ever leave earth's gravitational pull.

#### BigCountry

Contributor
Or it could just be nothing... or itself. I'm not going to say that the universe is a sphere, but what if the Universe is destroying it's back half, little by little, and is expanding on forwards, eventually re-using the space it once occupied...

And it could happen Fire2Box; there's no way to know what could be found out ten years down the road. Consider that in the 50's, landing on the moon was science fiction; No body could ever do it, and regardless of whether or not you believe it's been done, it can certainly be done today.

#### Fire2box

Est. Contributor
Or it could just be nothing... or itself. I'm not going to say that the universe is a sphere, but what if the Universe is destroying it's back half, little by little, and is expanding on forwards, eventually re-using the space it once occupied...

And it could happen Fire2Box; there's no way to know what could be found out ten years down the road. Consider that in the 50's, landing on the moon was science fiction; No body could ever do it, and regardless of whether or not you believe it's been done, it can certainly be done today.

I don't see any means of getting a person off earth and out of its gravity field that doesn't cost 250,000+ in US dollars or takes around 100 pounds of fuel to put 1 pound of matter into space.

#### Boogeyman

Est. Contributor
Space is nothingness. Therefore, we can only reason that nothing has no end.

#### BigCountry

Contributor
I don't see any means of getting a person off earth and out of its gravity field that doesn't cost 250,000+ in US dollars or takes around 100 pounds of fuel to put 1 pound of matter into space.

are you under the impression that \$250k is alot of money?

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#### Butterfly Mage

##### Guest
I could have sworn that I read somewhere that the "string" theory of the universe stated that there are ten spatial dimensions but only the first three are visible to us.

Of course, that sort of implies that there could be any number of three-dimensional sections of universe. Very exciting!

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#### Asher

##### Guest
Space is nothingness. Therefore, we can only reason that nothing has no end.

...but what if there was "something?" That would mean that "something" would have to come to an end eventually...

The universe is a complex subject, but at the same time, it is simple. The universe is a paradox in itself, and the human mind cannot grasp all that it holds due to its large size. If I am correct, has been "recorded" as being 10 billion light years in diameter... That's pretty big.

#### Boogeyman

Est. Contributor
...but what if there was "something?" That would mean that "something" would have to come to an end eventually...

The universe is a complex subject, but at the same time, it is simple. The universe is a paradox in itself, and the human mind cannot grasp all that it holds due to its large size. If I am correct, has been "recorded" as being 10 billion light years in diameter... That's pretty big.

BUT THERES NO SOMETHING.

Just nothing.

#### BigCountry

Contributor
BUT THERES NO SOMETHING.

Just nothing.

That's just the problem though; there's no way to prove that it's nothing, nor a way to prove that it's something, so all we can do is theorize. That's why this thread is so much better than prve the world is round. Lol. At this point in our knowledge as human beings, there are no right or wrong answers. Albeit; there are stupid answers, but nothing wrong. (Don't look for the exception to the rule...)

#### Boogeyman

Est. Contributor
Look at it this way.

Get a jar, go into space, bottle some up. If it forms a vacuum, I'm right.

#### Mink

An endless shape, that is constantly expanding and curving in upon itself.

#### BigCountry

Contributor
Look at it this way.

Get a jar, go into space, bottle some up. If it forms a vacuum, I'm right.

That's on my agenda for a week from now... right in the middle of Spring Break. I figured a trip to outerspace would be much more fun than a hiking trip.

If that were the case, then astronauts would never be able to leave the ISS.

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#### Butterfly Mage

##### Guest
Technically, space isn't 100% empty. You'll run into a hydrogen atom every few feet or so. Granted that's not a lot of material for a given volume, but it is more than nothing.

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